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How much do you give up for your studs handcuff? (1 Viewer)

pgreenfan

Footballguy
I have LT and Michael Turner was selected 1 pick in front of me later in the draft. I of course asked about him in trade and the other team seems pretty set on having me overpay or not get him. This got me to thinking that it probably happens to others. What is the best strategy here?

 
I have LT and Michael Turner was selected 1 pick in front of me later in the draft. I of course asked about him in trade and the other team seems pretty set on having me overpay or not get him. This got me to thinking that it probably happens to others. What is the best strategy here?
Don't let someone else take him to begin with. You've got to get you handcuffs 1 or 2 rounds before anyone else would likely take them.
 
Fortunately, I was able to get Turner to cuff LT, but mainly since he held little value to anyone else.

My advice is to get him, even if you have to overpay a bit. You can't afford not to IMO unless you're completely stacked at RB.

 
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I'm in this situation because a guy in my league took Turner in the 7th in a 10 team redraft. Knowing he took him that early, I know I'll really have to overpay to get him, therefore I doubt I will.

 
I have LT and Michael Turner was selected 1 pick in front of me later in the draft. I of course asked about him in trade and the other team seems pretty set on having me overpay or not get him. This got me to thinking that it probably happens to others. What is the best strategy here?
Obviously you want to draft them if you can, but I've always felt if there are players who represent better balue on the board, you go after those guys and take your chances. There are exceptions. I think this is one of them, unfortunately, as Turner has shown promise. In this situation, I'd quit trying to acquire the guy. One of four things is going to happen:1. He's going to waste a roster spot on a player who is going to do nothing for him. Good for you.2. Some time around week 4, he's going to tire of #1, drop Turner, and you can pick him up for nothing. Good for you.3. Some time around week 4, he's going to lower the asking price dramatically so he doesn't have to do #2. Good for you.4. Tomlinson dies, your season goes down the ####ter, and this guy has a brand new starting RB. You win 75% of the time. You'd take those odds in Vegas. Unless you can get him without REALLY overpaying, stick the other guy with Turner long-term and see what happens.
 
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My thoughts are that Turner is the main reason I like LT at 1.01. Having Turner, too, makes LT the safest of the top three RBs, imo. I play in mostly 14-16 teamers, and getting solid numbers with the safety of Turner is a big deal.

 
Turner is more valuable to you then anyone else. The other owner knows this and is expecting something good in return. While Turner does nothing for him on this other guys bench, he gives you piece of mind on your bench.

I would do what you could to get him. Offer your pick from the round or two previous and go from there.

 
I'm in a Dynasty, I have L.T. and Turner is still FA. I'm not concerned at all, I may pick him up once I drop Priest Holmes off my roster. I'm in no rush to pick him up at this point.

 
In my 10-team redraft league I was able to handcuff Turner to L.T. in round 13. Turner would be a top 10 back if L.T. went down. I believe he is the most desirable backup to get.

 
I do not subscribe to the handcuff theory per se.

I knew I wasn't getting LT this year, but went out of my way to pick up Turner because I simply think he could be a huge stud in the event LT goes down.

If I owned LT, Turner would be a must-pick, and 2-3 rounds earlier than anyone else would consider him.

Personally, I prefer to target backups that have a legitimate starting shot more than I go for a particular combo/handcuff.

 
Turner is more valuable to you then anyone else. The other owner knows this and is expecting something good in return. While Turner does nothing for him on this other guys bench, he gives you piece of mind on your bench. I would do what you could to get him. Offer your pick from the round or two previous and go from there.
If that's how it goes then wouldn't it be correct for any owner to take Turner earlier than even an LT owner would take him? I don't know. I don't think you can reward another owner too much for reaching for a guy just to try to have leverage on you.
 
I don't believe in handcuffs. Can anyone give me some math proofs as to why handcuffs are necessary or even valuable?
It gives the owner who invested in an uber-stud the peace of mind that they will still get the production out of that position even if #1 goes down.It's not a solid theory, but it IS a theory...
 
I don't believe in handcuffs. Can anyone give me some math proofs as to why handcuffs are necessary or even valuable?
Generally, they're not. Would I do everything I could to handcuff Dee Brown or Michael Bennett to LJ, or Maurice Morris to Alexander? Of course not.But Turner seems to be the one handcuff that you could still possibly get top 5 production from if the starting stud went down.
 
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This happened to me in my draft, but with Maurice Morris instead of Turner. He drafted MM in the end of 15th(out of 16) while I drafted Norwood, his guys backup, in the 14th round (before Duckett's trade).

So I had Dunn's backup, and he drafted M&M as ransom to get Norwood on his team, knowing I'd want to insure my #1 pick Alexander.

First, he tried trading straight up. Then Duckett got traded, and Norwood did well in the preseason. EVEN then I was reluctant to trade with him because of his kidnapping strategy, but I have a deep RB roster (Shaun Alexander, Ronnie Brown, MBIII, Cedric Benson, Deangelo Williams) and solid at other positions, so I felt I could gamble a bit and sell Norwood to him and benefit next year from it.

For my 14th round pick this year of Norwood, I got Maurice Morris and his 7th round pick next year. I feel like I wouldn't have done much with Norwood this year, and getting a fairly good draft pick next year at this point in the season was good value.

I realllly wanted to hang onto Norwood, but being without my star players backup just left my season uncertain. I have a title shot this year, and I need to insure my top player, and in the process, I picked up a 7th round pick next year.

So that is what I gave up to get my studs handcuff, although I realize the situation wasn't much like yours.

I like Bob's post in that 75% of the time you come out good. I agree and if you can take the gamble for a few games, he'll likely drop him in favor of a sleeper WR or a bye week fill-in.

 
In my 10-team redraft league I was able to handcuff Turner to L.T. in round 13. Turner would be a top 10 back if L.T. went down. I believe he is the most desirable backup to get.
I agree. I thought the same of LJ last year and people laughed at me for taking a backup RB in the 5th.If your leaguemates are paying attention, they should all have Turner targeted. Getting a top-10 RB at his spot in the draft (anywhere from 8th to 12th round or so) can be the difference between the championship and an average season.
 
Turner is more valuable to you then anyone else. The other owner knows this and is expecting something good in return. While Turner does nothing for him on this other guys bench, he gives you piece of mind on your bench. I would do what you could to get him. Offer your pick from the round or two previous and go from there.
So piece of mind is worth more than a player likely to contribute? This is horrible advice. Not only are you rewarding him, you're setting a precedent for future drafts.Unless you're really comfortable with your team after losing whomever he's asking for, tell him to go fly a kite.
 
I'm in a Dynasty, I have L.T. and Turner is still FA. I'm not concerned at all, I may pick him up once I drop Priest Holmes off my roster. I'm in no rush to pick him up at this point.
I would like to play in your league if you play in a dynasty league and Turner is not on anyones roster, especially if you have Priest Holmes on your roster and you are not sitting at your computer dropping PH and getting MT right now??? Turner has more value in a dynasty leageu than most of the rookie RB's this year.
 
I'm in a Dynasty, I have L.T. and Turner is still FA. I'm not concerned at all, I may pick him up once I drop Priest Holmes off my roster. I'm in no rush to pick him up at this point.
I would like to play in your league if you play in a dynasty league and Turner is not on anyones roster, especially if you have Priest Holmes on your roster and you are not sitting at your computer dropping PH and getting MT right now??? Turner has more value in a dynasty leageu than most of the rookie RB's this year.
The WW is not open for another week, I'm still not worried. The guppies in this league would rather have Tyson Thompson, JJ Arrington, L. Washington, C. Fason, etc....I'm not sure who started the myth that L.T. is superman, and can't/won't be replaced but they sure believe it (at least at this point in time). :pics:
 
I'm in a Dynasty, I have L.T. and Turner is still FA. I'm not concerned at all, I may pick him up once I drop Priest Holmes off my roster. I'm in no rush to pick him up at this point.
I would like to play in your league if you play in a dynasty league and Turner is not on anyones roster, especially if you have Priest Holmes on your roster and you are not sitting at your computer dropping PH and getting MT right now??? Turner has more value in a dynasty leageu than most of the rookie RB's this year.
The WW is not open for another week, I'm still not worried. The guppies in this league would rather have Tyson Thompson, JJ Arrington, L. Washington, C. Fason, etc....I'm not sure who started the myth that L.T. is superman, and can't/won't be replaced but they sure believe it (at least at this point in time). :pics:
The best back in the league will not be replaced if he is healthy. :wall:
 
My advice is to get him, even if you have to overpay a bit. You can't afford not to IMO unless you're completely stacked at RB.
:goodposting: I'm not saying give up a top 5 rounder guy, but you will probably need to overpay a bit. Turner is a potential top 5 back if LT2 goes down. He is too valuable to you not to go after him.
 
Handcuffing players is a waste of time and Roster space unless you have huge rosters. Why pick a backup who may never see the field? Not much of a shark move if you ask me. Pick for value, not need.

 
I think Turner (or insert top shelf handcuff here) would score the same amount of points for me if I owned LT as compared to anyone else. Same with all the other ones out there. I guess I don't believe the value in insurance, certainly not enough to spend another roster spot/pick on it. I don't have a problem taking a backup (you have to eventually) but taking a backup for the sake of taking a backup for your IRL starter sounds superstitious to me.

I think the handcuff theory is closely related to the "don't draft major players on the same team" theory. I draft players I think will score points, no matter what team they are on or if I own teammates, etc. I don't see why that would matter.

I also don't believe in Madden Curses, rain dances or the unlucky number 13. :)

I guess I could also say I don't believe in charity, I don't believe in sin. And if you don't believe in me, we'll play this tune over again....

 
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To me, the handcuff question is a factor of three different variables, depending on your team:

1. How valuable is the handcuff if turned starter? If the backup is a Deuce McAllister to Ricky Williams, or Larry Johnson to Priest Holmes (in years past), that is different than a Antwain Smith to Deuce McAllister or Sherman Williams to Emmitt Smith (again, in years past). If the handcuff isn't going to provide value even as a starter, he's obviously not worth hoarding.

2. What is the likelyhood of needing said handcuff? In their primes, I would rarely have considered Emmitt Smith's or Curtis Martin's backup, since their were healthy year after year. If you were drafting Fred Taylor high in his early years, you better take a good long look at the answer to #1 above.

3. Lastly, what else can you get instead of the handcuff? If you are forced to draft a handcuff so high you pass on a mediocre starting running back, but one that will at least start (projected) on a weekly basis, is that more valuable that a backup? If you have the backup, what happens that first week back, is the stud 100%, or is he breaking back in slowly? Are you going to play the starter or backup, or would you rather have a lesser back on another team you can play and get 100% production from? Are you weaker at another position and really need depth and need to sacrifice depth for a handcuff?

To me, going through all of these steps usually brings me to the conclusion is rarely advisable, but of course occasionally is. But it definitely depends on the team, and I don't think there is a universal answer to the LT/Turner handcuff since it depends on your team greatly.

 
I'm in a Dynasty, I have L.T. and Turner is still FA. I'm not concerned at all, I may pick him up once I drop Priest Holmes off my roster. I'm in no rush to pick him up at this point.
For a LT owner to still be holding Priest and not Turner is just foolish. You're begging for a disaster.
 
I don't believe in handcuffs. Can anyone give me some math proofs as to why handcuffs are necessary or even valuable?
Generally, they're not. Would I do everything I could to handcuff Dee Brown or Michael Bennett to LJ, or Maurice Morris to Alexander? Of course not.But Turner seems to be the one handcuff that you could still possibly get top 5 production from if the starting stud went down.
disagree on Morris. Two years ago we were saying the same thing about him that we're saying right now about Turner. Morris would be solid if Alexander went down.I'll give my 2 cents here- I took Morris late in the draft (don't own alexander) just because of all of the RBs left on the board, Morris would have the most upside if the starter got injured.I mean, would you rather have someone like Jacobs or Morris? My gut says Morris - Jacobs isn't worth starting right now and if Tiki goes down then I don't think Jacobs would be the sort of starter to get you to the playoffs. Morris would be, and Alexander is coming off of three seasons in a row of 368+ touches.Same with someone like Fargas, or Moe Williams. If the primary backups to your RBs won't necessarily be that good if your starter goes down then get a handcuff to someone else's good RB.
 
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my man otis said:
zamboni said:
Cappy said:
I don't believe in handcuffs. Can anyone give me some math proofs as to why handcuffs are necessary or even valuable?
Generally, they're not. Would I do everything I could to handcuff Dee Brown or Michael Bennett to LJ, or Maurice Morris to Alexander? Of course not.But Turner seems to be the one handcuff that you could still possibly get top 5 production from if the starting stud went down.
disagree on Morris. Two years ago we were saying the same thing about him that we're saying right now about Turner. Morris would be solid if Alexander went down.
Actually, I think we've been saying the same thing about Morris for years now, and he hasn't been all that good in limited time. Turner we've seen what he can do.
 
I have LT and Michael Turner was selected 1 pick in front of me later in the draft. I of course asked about him in trade and the other team seems pretty set on having me overpay or not get him. This got me to thinking that it probably happens to others. What is the best strategy here?
That was your first mistake. The second you approach him looking to trade, he's going to smell blood in the water. He knows that you're uncomfortable without Turner, and he's going to make you pay for it.The way to play out that situation is to just sit it out. If he's trying to gouge you, he'll eventually approach you looking to trade. At that point, you have the upper hand- he's established that he's desperate to MOVE Turner, and you haven't tipped your hand that you're desperate to ACQUIRE Turner. Offer him the guy you picked in the 14th immediately after Turner left the board, and then let that sit. If he doesn't accept, walk away. Give it a couple of weeks. Either he'll come crawling back and you get Turner on the cheap, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, that's fine, because like everyone's said, Turner doesn't do that owner a whole lot of good.

If you let people know that they are bargaining from a position of strength, they will take advantage. Further, if you overpay for a handcuff this year, you'll get a reputation as a player who overpays for handcuffs, and from then on, it's open season on all of your backups.

 
If your team isn't especially deep to begin with at RB, then handcuffing your one stud RB is essential. In a draft that took place on Saturday, I took Michael Turner in the 10th.

It might have been a little earlier than I needed to take him, but there wasn't another player on the board that I felt was more valuable to my team than backing up my one big back. Without Turner, if LT2 were to go down, I be pinning my hopes on the likes of Tatum Bell, Ahman Green, and Kevan Barlow. I'm scared enough of whether one of them will pan out to provide me with a decent RB2, much less expect 2 of them to give me starter quality points.

The bonus of LT2/Turner combo over other handcuffs is that Turner has been impressive in the limited time we've seen him, showing that he may be capable of being a starting caliber RB in his own right.

 

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