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How should we respond if Russia invades the Ukraine? (2 Viewers)

timschochet

Footballguy
It’s a simple question. Unfortunately the answer is not so simple. I have no idea. 
Hopefully we can keep this from becoming a bash Biden or bash Trump thread. Trying to assign blame isn’t really helpful. What do we do now? 

 
Some extra useless sanctions.

But will biden cut off the gas pipeline to Europe.   No.

We will do nothing.   Ukraine is on its own.

 
OK. Is this wise, in your opinion? 
Tim.  I'd like to mock biden.   But there is nothing we can do.   We aren't going to war even if Ukraine was nato.    And they aren't.

Biden will live with the consequences.   The real question is this a direct result of how we left Afghanistan.    Which I think it is.

Biden and our woke generals don't look impressive.

 
Tim.  I'd like to mock biden.   But there is nothing we can do.   We aren't going to war even if Ukraine was nato.    And they aren't.

Biden will live with the consequences.   The real question is this a direct result of how we left Afghanistan.    Which I think it is.

Biden and our woke generals don't look impressive.
I don’t see a connection between this and Afghanistan but OK. 

 
I don’t see a connection between this and Afghanistan but OK. 
It was a direct signal of weakness.  If Ukraine does get taken.   I'd avoid visiting Taiwan.

I think you don't see a connection because  don't want to see it.

But I think that's ok too.

 
It was a direct signal of weakness.  If Ukraine does get taken.   I'd avoid visiting Taiwan.

I think you don't see a connection because  don't want to see it.

But I think that's ok too.
The “strength vs weakness” theory of foreign policy is one that I’ve rejected my entire life. It’s demonstrably false in the nuclear age.

 
The “strength vs weakness” theory of foreign policy is one that I’ve rejected my entire life. It’s demonstrably false in the nuclear age.
How about carrot and stick.

Putin doesn't think biden has the stick that's going to be worse than grabbing the carrot that is Ukraine. 

 
We should respond the same way we did when Iraq invaded Kuwait.
This would mean: 

1. Gathering an international force of nations and placing about 500,000 troops, mostly American, at the Ukraine border. 
2. Invade Ukraine and at the same time, drop bombs in Moscow. 

Are you sure about this? 

 
This would mean: 

1. Gathering an international force of nations and placing about 500,000 troops, mostly American, at the Ukraine border. 
2. Invade Ukraine and at the same time, drop bombs in Moscow. 

Are you sure about this? 


Yes, I'm sure.  Russia and China are going to test the US resolve by invading neighboring countries.  We can't allow them to do this.  

 
It was a direct signal of weakness.  If Ukraine does get taken.   I'd avoid visiting Taiwan.

I think you don't see a connection because  don't want to see it.

But I think that's ok too.
I would think giving Syria to the Russians and Iranians was way more of a sign of weakness.  The US just gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban.  They don't get along with anybody.

 
How about carrot and stick.

Putin doesn't think biden has the stick that's going to be worse than grabbing the carrot that is Ukraine. 
Would you prefer a military response?

I think this is good to see where everyone stands on this scenario.  It prevents the Monday-Morning quarterback (my side / your side) response.

 
Yes, I'm sure.  Russia and China are going to test the US resolve by invading neighboring countries.  We can't allow them to do this.  
We are pledged to the defense of Taiwan are we not? We are not pledged to the defense of Ukraine. 
I don’t think China will ever invade Taiwan much as they might threaten to do so. It’s a difficult military problem. Taiwan is an island,  very well armed. Even if we never got involved, Taiwan could hold off an invasion for a long time. Of course China would overwhelm them in the end but the cost in blood and treasure would be staggering. It would be the equivalent of us trying to invade Cuba. 
Ukraine is a wholly different matter. It’s flat and we all know the history: Russia will have no problem at all invading if they want to. 

 
Tim.  I'd like to mock biden.   But there is nothing we can do.   We aren't going to war even if Ukraine was nato.    And they aren't.

Biden will live with the consequences.   The real question is this a direct result of how we left Afghanistan.    Which I think it is.

Biden and our woke generals don't look impressive.
I'd argue this has way more to do with the WORLD doing nothing when Russia annexed the Crimea than it does anything else.  If you want to put a big hunk of that on Obama, I won't argue.

OTOH, if my memory is right removing the Crimea sanctions are what Mike Flynn was negotiating with Russia about before Trump became President.  And Senate Republicans intervened to stop Trump from lifting them and returning Russia to the G7.

So no one's exactly covered in glory here.  But, as you say, the American public won't support a US war with Russia over the Ukraine. So there's really not much a President can do short of rhetoric and more sanctions (and potentially arming a guerilla movement if they do invade).

 
The terrain and culture ae very different, but I wonder if Ukraine can kind of adapt what the Afghan mujahideen did to Soviet forces in the 1980s. I don't think the Ukraine can just go toe-to-toe with Russia over land, so what's the Ukrainian alternative? Additionally, using irregular guerilla forces could make it easier for foreign governments to covertly help the Ukrainians.

 
I'd argue this has way more to do with the WORLD doing nothing when Russia annexed the Crimea than it does anything else.  If you want to put a big hunk of that on Obama, I won't argue.

OTOH, if my memory is right removing the Crimea sanctions are what Mike Flynn was negotiating with Russia about before Trump became President.  And Senate Republicans intervened to stop Trump from lifting them and returning Russia to the G7.

So no one's exactly covered in glory here.  But, as you say, the American public won't support a US war with Russia over the Ukraine. So there's really not much a President can do short of rhetoric and more sanctions (and potentially arming a guerilla movement if they do invade).
No not quite.   As part of the fake Russian lie.   Obama slapped on extra sanctions over the Russians interfering  with 2016.

Flynn basically said to kysliak "just wait don't start a sanction back and forth we will evaluate will evaluate after we are in office."   

 
No not quite.   As part of the fake Russian lie.   Obama slapped on extra sanctions over the Russians interfering  with 2016.

Flynn basically said to kysliak "just wait don't start a sanction back and forth we will evaluate will evaluate after we are in office."   
I don't think anyone disagrees that the Russians interfered, right?  Just whether or not Trump assisted them?

But you're right I think -- the sanctions Flynn was talking about were those for that interference.  

 
Fake Russian lie?  No…sanctions were for their actual actions which are not disputed.  They took measures against our election…that isn’t fake…its fact.

 
Just like in Team America World Police and the Hans Blix/Kim Jong Il scene. The US response would be, ""We will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are."

 
Drop bombs on Moscow?  Really.  So in other words ensure world war 3 starts.   Wow.  


If we had to.  I suspect, if we amassed a large force in the area, Russia would rethink what they're doing and China would be on notice as well.  

 
Fake Russian lie?  No…sanctions were for their actual actions which are not disputed.  They took measures against our election…that isn’t fake…its fact.
Even if what you assert were true.  Releasing true information does not compromise the election process at all.  People voted and Trump won the electoral college.  Unless you thought the Access Hollywood tapes were "election interference" too.  

 
If we had to.  I suspect, if we amassed a large force in the area, Russia would rethink what they're doing and China would be on notice as well.  
Strongly disagree.  (and them invading the Ukraine would not be a “had to” situation for us)

You think that’s how we’d respond if they started bombing DC due to us taking an action they didn’t approve of?   I think not.  It would be the end of the world as we know it.   

 
Tough call for Biden - an invasion of the Ukraine DIRECTLY affects his and Hunter's wallet.

Typically when you start to mess with a man's finances things get real serious, real quick.

 
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We shouldn't respond at all.  It is not our job to police the world.  People are losing their pants in our clown world economy, infrastructure is collapsing, workers can afford less and less due to insane money printing, and these nato people want more trillion dollar wars with Russia/China.  Maybe they should lace up some boots and head to Ukraine, I'm sure they'd love to have useless chickenhawks blowing all their social/political capital on disastrous wars.  Put them and their kids on the front lines.  

 
So no we could not discuss this without taking shots at Biden.  Good to know.  Now next comes the Trump bashing, then the “but Trump” responses and then this becomes exactly like every other thread here.  Well at least we got half a page of discussion.  

 
Even if what you assert were true.  Releasing true information does not compromise the election process at all.  People voted and Trump won the electoral college.  Unless you thought the Access Hollywood tapes were "election interference" too.  
It is true.  We know it was more than just a release in information as well.  These are again facts which at the moment are not disputed.  Its all in Mueller’s report as well.

I have not said a thing about Trump or if it changed the election.   
 

 
So no we could not discuss this without taking shots at Biden.  Good to know.  Now next comes the Trump bashing, then the “but Trump” responses and then this becomes exactly like every other thread here.  Well at least we got half a page of discussion.  
You can’t really gloss over Biden family corruption as it relates to the Ukraine and Russia. 

 
You can’t really gloss over Biden family corruption as it relates to the Ukraine and Russia. 
I’m not glossing over anything.  If forced to place a bet on my limited knowledge of the Biden/Ukraine ties/situation I’d bet he was corrupt.  He’s a career politician for Christ's sake.  

But that’s not the topic at hand.  The topic is how SHOULD we respond.  

 
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I’m not glossing over anything.  If forced to place a bet on my limited knowledge of the Biden/Ukraine ties/situation I’d bet he was corrupt.  He a career politician for Christ's sake.  

But that’s not the topic at hand.  The topic is how SHOULD we respond.  
Sit this one out militarily.  

 
@sho nuff    Stop.  Let please bring this back to the topic at hand.  I’m begging you dude please stop.  

 
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Even if what you assert were true.  Releasing true information does not compromise the election process at all.  People voted and Trump won the electoral college.  Unless you thought the Access Hollywood tapes were "election interference" too.  
You mean that super top secret public polling data?

 
Sure. My bad.  I think we all agree that Hunter Biden will play no part in any decision about the Ukraine/Russia situation.
I don’t think everyone agrees with that.  But it doesn’t matter.  That’s not the topic.  The topic is what should we do.  It’s a fascinating and relevant question.  I’d really like to hear what people around here think about that subject.  Thanks. 

 
It is true.  We know it was more than just a release in information as well.  These are again facts which at the moment are not disputed.  Its all in Mueller’s report as well.

I have not said a thing about Trump or if it changed the election.   
You said they took 'measures against the election' or something.  Publishing true information has nothing to do with the electoral process.  The only reason it was ever depicted that way was to deflect from the embarrassment of the publications.  

edit: I just think it's dangerous to yell "Russia!" and act like authentic information is somehow damaging to the public interest.  But sho and I will never agree on this so I apologize for rehashing it.  My bad 

 
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You said they took 'measures against the election' or something.  Publishing true information has nothing to do with the electoral process.  The only reason it was ever depicted that way was to deflect from the embarrassment of the publications.  
I refer you to the full report from Mueller and ask that you keep this about the current situation.

 

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