How the Patriots do it (1 Viewer)

[eom]

By Ross Tucker, SI.com

Having sandwiched some time as a Patriot in 2005 and 2006 with stints on other teams both before and after, I've seen firsthand why New England is so successful......

apparently, the key is that it's not just the ladies who are hot for brady

 

[Jayrod]

That's actually pretty informative for such a short article.

I love the bit on how specific Belichick gets with the keys to the game. That is something that I would adopt if I was a coach (but....I'm not. ) Every coach I ever played for did the keys to the game, but they were just too broad to really achieve and quantify to the point of "did we succeed or not". Making them more specific would actually make them an achievable goal during the course of the game. That alone is one of the most brilliant things I've heard in a while about coaching.

 

[eom]

I think what that tells you is he can actually identify keys to the game.

any coach who says the key to the game is outscoring the other guy, or whatever, probably doesn't have a good grasp on the game.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Anything in that article about exploting salary cap loopholes?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Anything in that article about exploting salary cap loopholes?

That would be the realm of the Broncos and 49ers.HTH.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Anything in there about Goddell?

 

[Keys Myaths]

I don't think this article has much substance. It's a lot of touchy-feely "magnetism and confidence", "building a team", then stuff every team tries to do (game plan, etc.)

I'm convinced there's genius that we're not privy too. My theory is that it's a Moneyball type of system that New England has developed, and they're just leaps and bounds ahead of the game because they are way ahead in the information game.

 

[eom]

I'm convinced there's genius that we're not privy too. My theory is that it's a Moneyball type of system that New England has developed, and they're just leaps and bounds ahead of the game because they are way ahead in the information game.

what convinces you of this?because I found that guy's article pretty convincing.

 

[Keys Myaths]

I'm convinced there's genius that we're not privy too. My theory is that it's a Moneyball type of system that New England has developed, and they're just leaps and bounds ahead of the game because they are way ahead in the information game.

what convinces you of this?

I'll just take the main points of the article:1. Bill Belichick specifically details what must be done for the Patriots to win. He's more likely to say: "We can't let Hines Ward beat us on crossing routes on third down," or "we have to be successful running our scat screen early in the game".Fantastic. If other coaches don't break down specific plays that they could be weak against and key on them, they shouldn't be coaching at Moeller High School, much less the NFL.2. "New England may do something like go no-huddle against Buffalo in 2003 to tire out mammoth defensive tackles Sam Adams and Pat Williams. Or they'll have four or five linebackers walk around before blitzing in order to confuse a young center or quarterback. You can be sure that the Patriots are going to bring something new to the table every week"Again, exploiting weaknesses of certain players? Every coach tries to do this.3. "I worked out for the Patriots later in the year. Personnel man Scott Pioli told me they really wanted to sign me after the season for the next year. Here they were going for a third straight Super Bowl title and they were working on next year."So other coaches are really only concentrating on the current year, and are saying "Well, screw next year. Let's not even think about the future of the organization."?4. The team/collection of athletes section is like intangibles in baseball. Yeah, they might have a small effect, but overall, you need talent to win above anything else. Winning breeds teamwork and good feelings.5. The Tom Brady section. Doesn't detail how the Pats saw such talent in a backup high school QB.The Patriots, given the era they play in, and the amount of turnover in the NFL, are the most successful and best-run dynasty in NFL history. Period. There's more to it (much more) than the above. One of these days, it's going to make a great business book as to how they REALLY do it. As for now, it's all speculation, because they'd be morons to divulge it.

 

[eom]

well, I pretty much was asking your belief, as was hinted in your previous post, not a rehashing of the article.

the guy has played for the pats, as well as other teams, and was comparing and contrasting his different experiences.

that was the whole point.

frankly, if it comes down to putting my faith in his nfl experiences and yours, I'll probably be taking his, but thx anyway for all your guesses and assumptions.

now, if you'd care to answer my previous question, I'd actually be interested in that.

 

[pizzatyme]

Any chance they have the offices of their opponents bugged? What if at the same time The Steelers are saying they plan to use Hines Ward on crossing routes on 3rd down, BB is saying this is what we need to do to stop them?!

If you're willing to videotape, what else are you willing to do?

 

[Keys Myaths]

well, I pretty much was asking your belief, as was hinted in your previous post, not a rehashing of the article.

the guy has played for the pats, as well as other teams, and was comparing and contrasting his different experiences.

that was the whole point.

frankly, if it comes down to putting my faith in his nfl experiences and yours, I'll probably be taking his, but thx anyway for all your guesses and assumptions.

now, if you'd care to answer my previous question, I'd actually be interested in that.

You asked why I was convinced there was something we're not privy to. I answered that when I stated all the parts of the article, and explained why they all were things even high-school coaches should (and are) doing. If those are really the reasons (which I don't think they are), then I'd really like to know what specifically the Patriots see that other teams aren't seeing. What makes them key on a certain play or player? Do they have stats that show that these particular plays are As for the bolded, it's not NFL experience that the article is talking about. It's talking about business sense and how the Patriots are running an incredibly successful organization in a very, very competitive environment with strict rules that level the playing field. Business-wise, I'm pretty sure I know much more than Ross Tucker, given my education and what I do for a living. As far as Ross's knowledge in writing this, remember, he is just a player, and I doubt that if there is "Moneyball"-type of system in place, the players are given that knowledge so they can reveal it in their next stop (especially given how secretive Belichick is about everything).

My belief? I think it has to do with how the Patriots evaluate talent, and how they don't use conventional wisdom...rather, they have found things that go against conventional wisdom that really work (hence the Moneyball reference). We've seen glimpses of a few examples (not being particularly loyal to older players, refusing to sign average players to good/great contracts, bringing in boom/bust talent, using the new WR rules to their advantage), but I think there's much more than that.

By the way, this is a genuine discussion of the article. Please don't act like a fourth grader because I disagree with you.

 

[eom]

As for the bolded, it's not NFL experience that the article is talking about. It's talking about business sense and how the Patriots are running an incredibly successful organization in a very, very competitive environment with strict rules that level the playing field. Business-wise, I'm pretty sure I know much more than Ross Tucker, given my education and what I do for a living. As far as Ross's knowledge in writing this, remember, he is just a player, and I doubt that if there is "Moneyball"-type of system in place, the players are given that knowledge so they can reveal it in their next stop (especially given how secretive Belichick is about everything).My belief? I think it has to do with how the Patriots evaluate talent, and how they don't use conventional wisdom...rather, they have found things that go against conventional wisdom that really work (hence the Moneyball reference). We've seen glimpses of a few examples (not being particularly loyal to older players, refusing to sign average players to good/great contracts, bringing in boom/bust talent, using the new WR rules to their advantage), but I think there's much more than that.By the way, this is a genuine discussion of the article. Please don't act like a fourth grader because I disagree with you.

actually, it's exactly about nfl experience, whether you want to credit yourself for being a better source than the author, or not.I think your bit about them being unconventional was already covered in the article you dismissed, and I think your last point can be just as well written off to things that even high school coaches would (and are) doing than any of the rest.although, I'm not sure how any of that is applicable to high school coaches...but, whatever...fyi -- this is only an genuine discussion of the article by some of the participants --- some are just in it for the juvenile name calling and to trash a pats thread.by the way, can I just pretty much summarize your position on the article as saying it's all bs and the pats have some magic secret that nobody can possibly know?because that's kind of a letdown.

 

[Jayrod]

You asked why I was convinced there was something we're not privy to. I answered that when I stated all the parts of the article, and explained why they all were things even high-school coaches should (and are) doing. If those are really the reasons (which I don't think they are), then I'd really like to know what specifically the Patriots see that other teams aren't seeing. What makes them key on a certain play or player? Do they have stats that show that these particular plays are

As for the bolded, it's not NFL experience that the article is talking about. It's talking about business sense and how the Patriots are running an incredibly successful organization in a very, very competitive environment with strict rules that level the playing field. Business-wise, I'm pretty sure I know much more than Ross Tucker, given my education and what I do for a living. As far as Ross's knowledge in writing this, remember, he is just a player, and I doubt that if there is "Moneyball"-type of system in place, the players are given that knowledge so they can reveal it in their next stop (especially given how secretive Belichick is about everything).

My belief? I think it has to do with how the Patriots evaluate talent, and how they don't use conventional wisdom...rather, they have found things that go against conventional wisdom that really work (hence the Moneyball reference). We've seen glimpses of a few examples (not being particularly loyal to older players, refusing to sign average players to good/great contracts, bringing in boom/bust talent, using the new WR rules to their advantage), but I think there's much more than that.

By the way, this is a genuine discussion of the article. Please don't act like a fourth grader because I disagree with you.

Why do you act like you know what NFL coaches do? Are you in NFL locker rooms? The entire article was written from this player's experiences and he pointed out some differences between the Patriots and the other NFL teams he's played for.And as for the bolded part above, these aren't even things that other NFL teams are doing. I don't know if you have much experience in locker rooms, but in my experience, those things he listed are really different. I played in HS and small college and I can tell you those principles were not practiced on any of my teams.

When he says "keys to victory" he isn't just talking about every thing they cover in practice that week. He is talking about the 3, 5, 7 or 10 points that a coach tries to hammer home through repetition each day in practice and then brings up in the pre-game speech. Making these things as specific as "stopping Hines Ward on crossing routes on third down" is not very common. Most coaches use things like "limit yardage on first down" or "win the field posistion battle"...there is a difference. Also, it isn't like the Patriots are the only team looking forward, but they actually went as far as to address the player they want a year in advance. I'm guessing that few teams think so far ahead as to actually plan their rosters for the next year and begin to address players they'd like to sign. At least for this guy that was something he hadn't seen from any other team.

I just tend to give a player that's been there more creedence than you, unless you indicate that you have some kind of position in the NFL. But the fact that you think HS coaches are doing this leads me to believe you aren't.

 

[Crusaderfan]

frankly, if it comes down to putting my faith in his nfl experiences and yours, I'll probably be taking his, but thx anyway for all your guesses and assumptions.now, if you'd care to answer my previous question, I'd actually be interested in that.

Wow, are you this arrogant and this much of an a*hole in real life? Or is this just an iPersonna thing?

I'm guessing that he is once again flexing his keyboard muscles. It's a shame because he starts off with a decent post. Then a guy that has spent a ton of time on this board helping people over the years (Keys), doesn't bow at the throne of Belichick and Eom gets his soggy diaper attitude once again. I don't think that it's an insult to wonder if NE is using a Moneyball type system to run their incredibly successful operation. I actually thought it was a good point. UNLESS you aren't familiar with Billy Beane.

 

[Fantaholic]

EOM:

Not for anything here, but haven't you figured out that you can't say anything that even resembles a positive about the Patriots on this board? I'm pretty sure you have but just making sure. Posts such as yours need to be stashed away and re-posted when the Patriots go 4-12 some year.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Any chance they have the offices of their opponents bugged? What if at the same time The Steelers are saying they plan to use Hines Ward on crossing routes on 3rd down, BB is saying this is what we need to do to stop them?!

If you're willing to videotape, what else are you willing to do?

Manipulate the rules of the game by back-room Competition Committee political maneuvers?Amplify fan noise through the stadium speaker system?

 

[bostonfred]

The article's written from a former player's perspective, so it's not going to be any more detailed on the front office's day to day decisions than if you were asked to write an article on why your company is successful. What's interesting about it to me about this article is that he's contrasting the things he saw work well in New England and things he saw at other teams. If he says that the keys to the game are more specific and are repeated more frequently, then I believe that, even if his specific examples aren't what you would want. The guy's played on five NFL teams. When he says that the Pats were talking to him about next year when other teams weren't, I don't think that's unique to the Pats, but I do think that they showed more interest in him than other teams did, and I find it interesting that they plant the seeds early with players they're interested in.

The one thing that's consistent, though, is that Belichick and Pioli look for guys who love football, understand the game, and think about it the right way, more than the guys who have the most physical size and speed. That's a great description of guys they've developed like Troy Brown and Bruschi, free agents they've signed like Seau and Welker, and draft picks that people didn't expect them to make like Watson and Mankins. All of those guys have been considered reaches or overachievers over the years. The Patriots seem to place a lot of emphasis on finding the right kind of players. I'm not sure that that's a science or an art, but they seem to believe it, and the players seem to believe it, so it shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I'm an 8th grade head football coach. So, I get a new group of kids, a different team to work with every year so although some of this information is relevant to me, the parts about planting seeds to obtain players in the future isn't.

I can say this though, we don't scout anywhere close to what a pro team does or even a high school team for that matter, but into the season, we end up finding out what players are good and who we need to stop.

So, in practice I'll actually put a red shirt on the person/player we're going to stop during game day. We'll even have the offense lineup in formations we think the other team will use with that player.

During that week, we'll spend some time each day, maybe it's 15 mins, maybe it's 30 mins.

That kind of goes along with the point that Belichik does, points out the specfic player, not just we're going to stop the pass.

I tend to agree with Keys on this.........that everyone that knows how to coach does this. I'm just an 8th grade football coach and I do it.

I have also done the same exact thing one year and gone undefeated and then the next with different players, won 1 game.

Why? Because of talent

The Patriots have THE BEST talent in the league right now. Why are they better than last year? Because they brought in Moss and Welker and stayed relatively healthy. You think they're doing anything majorly different this year than in year's past to finally go undefeated? Nope, they're just more talented than they've ever been.

So, to me there's no doubt the Patriots do things correctly in terms of coaching. Yes, he's a good coach and does things during the week to get his team prepared but they have the best talent.

Credit the entire organization in evaluating talent, signing them and keeping them happy.

 

[pettifogger]

The article's written from a former player's perspective, so it's not going to be any more detailed on the front office's day to day decisions than if you were asked to write an article on why your company is successful. What's interesting about it to me about this article is that he's contrasting the things he saw work well in New England and things he saw at other teams. If he says that the keys to the game are more specific and are repeated more frequently, then I believe that, even if his specific examples aren't what you would want. The guy's played on five NFL teams. When he says that the Pats were talking to him about next year when other teams weren't, I don't think that's unique to the Pats, but I do think that they showed more interest in him than other teams did, and I find it interesting that they plant the seeds early with players they're interested in. The one thing that's consistent, though, is that Belichick and Pioli look for guys who love football, understand the game, and think about it the right way, more than the guys who have the most physical size and speed. That's a great description of guys they've developed like Troy Brown and Bruschi, free agents they've signed like Seau and Welker, and draft picks that people didn't expect them to make like Watson and Mankins. All of those guys have been considered reaches or overachievers over the years. The Patriots seem to place a lot of emphasis on finding the right kind of players. I'm not sure that that's a science or an art, but they seem to believe it, and the players seem to believe it, so it shouldn't be overlooked.

Good post. I thought Welker was a trade, BTW, wasn't it for a fourth rounder? Anyway this is very similar to Billy Beane in baseball. Most teams scout for size, speed, etc. and try to project atheletic players that way. Beane instead scouted for batters' ability to control the strike zone, get on base, pitchers who induced ground balls, etc. -- i.e. baseball skills.

 

[Borat]

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

 

[Road Warriors]

The article's written from a former player's perspective, so it's not going to be any more detailed on the front office's day to day decisions than if you were asked to write an article on why your company is successful. What's interesting about it to me about this article is that he's contrasting the things he saw work well in New England and things he saw at other teams. If he says that the keys to the game are more specific and are repeated more frequently, then I believe that, even if his specific examples aren't what you would want. The guy's played on five NFL teams. When he says that the Pats were talking to him about next year when other teams weren't, I don't think that's unique to the Pats, but I do think that they showed more interest in him than other teams did, and I find it interesting that they plant the seeds early with players they're interested in. The one thing that's consistent, though, is that Belichick and Pioli look for guys who love football, understand the game, and think about it the right way, more than the guys who have the most physical size and speed. That's a great description of guys they've developed like Troy Brown and Bruschi, free agents they've signed like Seau and Welker, and draft picks that people didn't expect them to make like Watson and Mankins. All of those guys have been considered reaches or overachievers over the years. The Patriots seem to place a lot of emphasis on finding the right kind of players. I'm not sure that that's a science or an art, but they seem to believe it, and the players seem to believe it, so it shouldn't be overlooked.

Good post. I thought Welker was a trade, BTW, wasn't it for a fourth rounder? Anyway this is very similar to Billy Beane in baseball. Most teams scout for size, speed, etc. and try to project atheletic players that way. Beane instead scouted for batters' ability to control the strike zone, get on base, pitchers who induced ground balls, etc. -- i.e. baseball skills.

Welker was for a 2nd and a 7th, I believe. Moss was for a 4th.The Moneyball reference is definitely on point, and meshes with the players assessment of the types of players the Pats org brings in. Good stuff here.

 

[Fantaholic]

I'm an 8th grade head football coach. So, I get a new group of kids, a different team to work with every year so although some of this information is relevant to me, the parts about planting seeds to obtain players in the future isn't.I can say this though, we don't scout anywhere close to what a pro team does or even a high school team for that matter, but into the season, we end up finding out what players are good and who we need to stop.So, in practice I'll actually put a red shirt on the person/player we're going to stop during game day. We'll even have the offense lineup in formations we think the other team will use with that player. During that week, we'll spend some time each day, maybe it's 15 mins, maybe it's 30 mins.That kind of goes along with the point that Belichik does, points out the specfic player, not just we're going to stop the pass.I tend to agree with Keys on this.........that everyone that knows how to coach does this. I'm just an 8th grade football coach and I do it.I have also done the same exact thing one year and gone undefeated and then the next with different players, won 1 game.Why? Because of talentThe Patriots have THE BEST talent in the league right now. Why are they better than last year? Because they brought in Moss and Welker and stayed relatively healthy. You think they're doing anything majorly different this year than in year's past to finally go undefeated? Nope, they're just more talented than they've ever been.So, to me there's no doubt the Patriots do things correctly in terms of coaching. Yes, he's a good coach and does things during the week to get his team prepared but they have the best talent.Credit the entire organization in evaluating talent, signing them and keeping them happy.

Well, you lost me when you started mentioning talent. With the exception of this year the Patriots had arguably accomplished more with less than any other dynasty in NFL history. Remember it was guys like Antowain Smith, an old Corey Dillon, David Patten, David Givens, and the list goes on and on that played key roles in super bowl seasons. So, when you say that talent is the reason for their success, I couldn't disagree with you more. While we have had arguably the best QB of our time for all these superbowls, you can not tell me that he has been surrounded by extraordinary talent other than this season. The same can be said for their defenses this decade. This team let talent leave year after year on defense and replaced them with unknowns that knew how to play the game of football. Just not a good assessment on your part.

 

[Road Warriors]

I'm an 8th grade head football coach. So, I get a new group of kids, a different team to work with every year so although some of this information is relevant to me, the parts about planting seeds to obtain players in the future isn't.I can say this though, we don't scout anywhere close to what a pro team does or even a high school team for that matter, but into the season, we end up finding out what players are good and who we need to stop.So, in practice I'll actually put a red shirt on the person/player we're going to stop during game day. We'll even have the offense lineup in formations we think the other team will use with that player. During that week, we'll spend some time each day, maybe it's 15 mins, maybe it's 30 mins.That kind of goes along with the point that Belichik does, points out the specfic player, not just we're going to stop the pass.I tend to agree with Keys on this.........that everyone that knows how to coach does this. I'm just an 8th grade football coach and I do it.I have also done the same exact thing one year and gone undefeated and then the next with different players, won 1 game.Why? Because of talentThe Patriots have THE BEST talent in the league right now. Why are they better than last year? Because they brought in Moss and Welker and stayed relatively healthy. You think they're doing anything majorly different this year than in year's past to finally go undefeated? Nope, they're just more talented than they've ever been.So, to me there's no doubt the Patriots do things correctly in terms of coaching. Yes, he's a good coach and does things during the week to get his team prepared but they have the best talent.Credit the entire organization in evaluating talent, signing them and keeping them happy.

I've heard other sources ( sorry, no link ) mention that the Patriots are one of a small handful of teams that does have very specific keys to the game. Situational keys. What you describe in what you do is similar to the Patriots saying we have to stop LT2. Find the best player ( or players ) and "stop them" What Mr. Tucker describes is more along the lines of we have to stop LT2 going off tackle left on 1st down. I agree all coaches, at all levels, identify opponents strengths and weaknesses, and key on them. The biggest problem I've seen with the typical keys to the game are either too general to be useful or there are too many to be truly a focus. An earlier post talked about the 3, 5, 7 or 10 keys. You can't truly "focus" on 10 things. I was reading a business book ( The Power of Focus ), and to paraphrase its key message: "To say you focus on many things means you don't really focus on anything."The thing that Tucker is talking about and I've heard discussed elsewhere is the Pats coaching staff's uncanny ability to identify 2 or 3 detailed objectives to focus on that will make the difference in the game.I don't disagree that the Patriots are supremely talented this year, which explains why they've been able to get through the regular season undefeated. However, some earlier Patriots teams were not nearly the most talented in the league ( think 2001 ), and they won a majority of the games, including their 3 SB runs. I think some of what Tucker is talking about explains, in some part, why. What he's talking about is not just about this season, but the Patriots organization as a whole.

 

[Righetti]

Q: why did the Bulls win all those championship?

A: Michael Jordan will to win.

yeah he had good talent around him and he was unbelievably talented but at the end of the day his will to win seemed to carry those teams more than anything.

I think Brady is the exact same way, and that is coming from a Brady hating Jets fan

 

[Baby New Year]

Good post. I thought Welker was a trade, BTW, wasn't it for a fourth rounder?

From my vague memory (correct me if I have the details wrong), Welker was a restricted free agent and Miami pegged him at bottom or middle tender. This meant that when the Pats made him an offer, they had to give up a 2nd round pick for him. Now, sometimes teams will make it tough for the offering team to close the deal by way of building 'poison pills' into their contract offers to screw with the other guy's cap, so New England worked out a deal where they would just give a 7th rounder in addition to avoid all the messiness. Also, I seem to recall Minnesota having interest in him, and the Pats being basically more aggressive in their pursuit, while Minnesota was playing around trying to get a more favorable contract, but maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

 

[pizzatyme]

Any chance they have the offices of their opponents bugged? What if at the same time The Steelers are saying they plan to use Hines Ward on crossing routes on 3rd down, BB is saying this is what we need to do to stop them?!

If you're willing to videotape, what else are you willing to do?

Manipulate the rules of the game by back-room Competition Committee political maneuvers?Amplify fan noise through the stadium speaker system?

Link? :wave:

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I'm an 8th grade head football coach. So, I get a new group of kids, a different team to work with every year so although some of this information is relevant to me, the parts about planting seeds to obtain players in the future isn't.I can say this though, we don't scout anywhere close to what a pro team does or even a high school team for that matter, but into the season, we end up finding out what players are good and who we need to stop.So, in practice I'll actually put a red shirt on the person/player we're going to stop during game day. We'll even have the offense lineup in formations we think the other team will use with that player. During that week, we'll spend some time each day, maybe it's 15 mins, maybe it's 30 mins.That kind of goes along with the point that Belichik does, points out the specfic player, not just we're going to stop the pass.I tend to agree with Keys on this.........that everyone that knows how to coach does this. I'm just an 8th grade football coach and I do it.I have also done the same exact thing one year and gone undefeated and then the next with different players, won 1 game.Why? Because of talentThe Patriots have THE BEST talent in the league right now. Why are they better than last year? Because they brought in Moss and Welker and stayed relatively healthy. You think they're doing anything majorly different this year than in year's past to finally go undefeated? Nope, they're just more talented than they've ever been.So, to me there's no doubt the Patriots do things correctly in terms of coaching. Yes, he's a good coach and does things during the week to get his team prepared but they have the best talent.Credit the entire organization in evaluating talent, signing them and keeping them happy.

Well, you lost me when you started mentioning talent. With the exception of this year the Patriots had arguably accomplished more with less than any other dynasty in NFL history. Remember it was guys like Antowain Smith, an old Corey Dillon, David Patten, David Givens, and the list goes on and on that played key roles in super bowl seasons. So, when you say that talent is the reason for their success, I couldn't disagree with you more. While we have had arguably the best QB of our time for all these superbowls, you can not tell me that he has been surrounded by extraordinary talent other than this season. The same can be said for their defenses this decade. This team let talent leave year after year on defense and replaced them with unknowns that knew how to play the game of football. Just not a good assessment on your part.

Ah, but what IS talent? Is it to be a playmaker like Chad Johnson, Ray Lewis, or Ladanian Tomlinson? Or is to be a team player, like a Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi or Kevin Faulk? What do we value, and what do we discount?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Any chance they have the offices of their opponents bugged? What if at the same time The Steelers are saying they plan to use Hines Ward on crossing routes on 3rd down, BB is saying this is what we need to do to stop them?!

If you're willing to videotape, what else are you willing to do?

Manipulate the rules of the game by back-room Competition Committee political maneuvers?Amplify fan noise through the stadium speaker system?

Not remotely close. Embrace the cheating, then you will overcome your anger.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Any chance they have the offices of their opponents bugged? What if at the same time The Steelers are saying they plan to use Hines Ward on crossing routes on 3rd down, BB is saying this is what we need to do to stop them?!

If you're willing to videotape, what else are you willing to do?

Manipulate the rules of the game by back-room Competition Committee political maneuvers?Amplify fan noise through the stadium speaker system?

Not remotely close. Embrace the cheating, then you will overcome your anger.

Ironic that my advice to you would be to embrace your anger so you will overcome the "cheating".

 

[Keys Myaths]

by the way, can I just pretty much summarize your position on the article as saying it's all bs and the pats have some magic secret that nobody can possibly know?because that's kind of a letdown.

I never said it was all BS. The Pats might do it better than others, but it's something I'm pretty sure all coaches are striving for.And yes, there's probably much more to the Pats success. If that's a letdown, I apologize on behalf of Belichick for not revealing his secrets to you. But, let's put it this way. If you were making millions of dollars, and were recognized as a great football mind because of stuff you do, why would you reveal the secrets so everyone else could use them? Seems foolish to me.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Why do you act like you know what NFL coaches do? Are you in NFL locker rooms? The entire article was written from this player's experiences and he pointed out some differences between the Patriots and the other NFL teams he's played for.And as for the bolded part above, these aren't even things that other NFL teams are doing. I don't know if you have much experience in locker rooms, but in my experience, those things he listed are really different. I played in HS and small college and I can tell you those principles were not practiced on any of my teams.When he says "keys to victory" he isn't just talking about every thing they cover in practice that week. He is talking about the 3, 5, 7 or 10 points that a coach tries to hammer home through repetition each day in practice and then brings up in the pre-game speech. Making these things as specific as "stopping Hines Ward on crossing routes on third down" is not very common. Most coaches use things like "limit yardage on first down" or "win the field posistion battle"...there is a difference. Also, it isn't like the Patriots are the only team looking forward, but they actually went as far as to address the player they want a year in advance. I'm guessing that few teams think so far ahead as to actually plan their rosters for the next year and begin to address players they'd like to sign. At least for this guy that was something he hadn't seen from any other team.I just tend to give a player that's been there more creedence than you, unless you indicate that you have some kind of position in the NFL. But the fact that you think HS coaches are doing this leads me to believe you aren't.

I played in HS. My coaches did what I described above. Not to the extent the Patriots did, but as a WR, I knew exactly what to key on in terms of the opposing DB and what his weaknesses were, and how to exploit them. Any good coach would do that.You guys are acting like I'm attacking the Pats, which is hilarious to me. I'm doing exactly the opposite. I'm saying that I think the Patriots are much, much better at this, and are using much more sophisticated techniques than this article is giving them credit for. I'm saying that Belichick and co. are MUCH smarter than this article gives them credit for.

 

[JFT Ben]

I just read "the Blueprint" about how the Pats turned it around with Belicheck and Paoli. Main points as I remember them:

1) Build a Team and not just assemble the most talented players (i.e. finding those who love the game and will give up individual accolades for the betterment of the team). This lead them to sign a lot of mid-priced free agents who were perhaps not the best fit in their previous scheme, but fit into the Pats. Only recently did you hear the Pats pick up big name FAs (Moss, Adalious Thomas), more the exception than the rule.

2) Belicheck has complete trust in Paoli with regards to talent evaluation, as well as listens to his scouts (Unlike Mike Sherman's GM days with the Packers where he would notoriously ignore input). One scout was ademently gunning for Brady to be drafted, even though others didn't expect much, but the B/P team listened.

3) Bill has a network of college coaches he has worked with or come from his "football tree", so he'll have inside knowledge of players that both A) fit his system and B) have some preliminary knowledge of his system.

4) They treat their players more like commodaties: buy low, sell high. They don't pay on past value, but on what they think their future value is, despite some unpopular decisions. Multiple examples of this (trading or letting high priced veterans go): trading Bledsoe within the division, letting Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy go, etc.

Add to that good coaches and gameplanning and you have a reason why they're so good. I'd say the Colts, Chargers and Packers (under Ted Thompson) among others run their operations with similar philosophies, though some are more conservative than others.

 

[Jayrod]

Why do you act like you know what NFL coaches do? Are you in NFL locker rooms? The entire article was written from this player's experiences and he pointed out some differences between the Patriots and the other NFL teams he's played for.And as for the bolded part above, these aren't even things that other NFL teams are doing. I don't know if you have much experience in locker rooms, but in my experience, those things he listed are really different. I played in HS and small college and I can tell you those principles were not practiced on any of my teams.When he says "keys to victory" he isn't just talking about every thing they cover in practice that week. He is talking about the 3, 5, 7 or 10 points that a coach tries to hammer home through repetition each day in practice and then brings up in the pre-game speech. Making these things as specific as "stopping Hines Ward on crossing routes on third down" is not very common. Most coaches use things like "limit yardage on first down" or "win the field posistion battle"...there is a difference. Also, it isn't like the Patriots are the only team looking forward, but they actually went as far as to address the player they want a year in advance. I'm guessing that few teams think so far ahead as to actually plan their rosters for the next year and begin to address players they'd like to sign. At least for this guy that was something he hadn't seen from any other team.I just tend to give a player that's been there more creedence than you, unless you indicate that you have some kind of position in the NFL. But the fact that you think HS coaches are doing this leads me to believe you aren't.

I played in HS. My coaches did what I described above. Not to the extent the Patriots did, but as a WR, I knew exactly what to key on in terms of the opposing DB and what his weaknesses were, and how to exploit them. Any good coach would do that.

You aren't getting it. Yes every coach does what you are describing, but that isn't the same thing the article talks about.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm an 8th grade head football coach. So, I get a new group of kids, a different team to work with every year so although some of this information is relevant to me, the parts about planting seeds to obtain players in the future isn't.

I can say this though, we don't scout anywhere close to what a pro team does or even a high school team for that matter, but into the season, we end up finding out what players are good and who we need to stop.

So, in practice I'll actually put a red shirt on the person/player we're going to stop during game day. We'll even have the offense lineup in formations we think the other team will use with that player.

During that week, we'll spend some time each day, maybe it's 15 mins, maybe it's 30 mins.

That kind of goes along with the point that Belichik does, points out the specfic player, not just we're going to stop the pass.

I tend to agree with Keys on this.........that everyone that knows how to coach does this. I'm just an 8th grade football coach and I do it.

I have also done the same exact thing one year and gone undefeated and then the next with different players, won 1 game.

Why? Because of talent

The Patriots have THE BEST talent in the league right now. Why are they better than last year? Because they brought in Moss and Welker and stayed relatively healthy. You think they're doing anything majorly different this year than in year's past to finally go undefeated? Nope, they're just more talented than they've ever been.

So, to me there's no doubt the Patriots do things correctly in terms of coaching. Yes, he's a good coach and does things during the week to get his team prepared but they have the best talent.

Credit the entire organization in evaluating talent, signing them and keeping them happy.

You and Keys are in the same boat. What you describe isn't what the article is talking about.

 

[TxBuckeye]

You guys are acting like I'm attacking the Pats, which is hilarious to me. I'm doing exactly the opposite. I'm saying that I think the Patriots are much, much better at this, and are using much more sophisticated techniques than this article is giving them credit for. I'm saying that Belichick and co. are MUCH smarter than this article gives them credit for.

You don't get it Keys. Any slight, or any perceived slight, is all it takes to fully engage the persecution complex the Pat's fans on this board have. You didn't immmediately bow and pay homage to the Pat's greatness or their coach. Therefore, you must be a HATER!!!

 

[Keys Myaths]

You guys are acting like I'm attacking the Pats, which is hilarious to me. I'm doing exactly the opposite. I'm saying that I think the Patriots are much, much better at this, and are using much more sophisticated techniques than this article is giving them credit for. I'm saying that Belichick and co. are MUCH smarter than this article gives them credit for.

You don't get it Keys. Any slight, or any perceived slight, is all it takes to fully engage the persecution complex the Pat's fans on this board have. You didn't immmediately bow and pay homage to the Pat's greatness or their coach. Therefore, you must be a HATER!!!

Honestly, this really seems to be it at this point. Screw it.Going back to the FFA now.

 

[Road Warriors]

You guys are acting like I'm attacking the Pats, which is hilarious to me. I'm doing exactly the opposite. I'm saying that I think the Patriots are much, much better at this, and are using much more sophisticated techniques than this article is giving them credit for. I'm saying that Belichick and co. are MUCH smarter than this article gives them credit for.

You don't get it Keys. Any slight, or any perceived slight, is all it takes to fully engage the persecution complex the Pat's fans on this board have. You didn't immmediately bow and pay homage to the Pat's greatness or their coach. Therefore, you must be a HATER!!!

Honestly, this really seems to be it at this point. Screw it.Going back to the FFA now.

Sucks that a few can ruin discussions with different viewpoints. It still bugs me when all Pats fans are lumped together as one, though. Seems that discussions can't happen ( on either side). Any disagreement with a Pats fan gets "eom"ed, and any Pats fan disagreement with a poster gets "Loke"d Oh, well... I thought the article was an interesting take from an NFL player with at least a few different locker room experiences to compare.

 

[golfguy]

how are the patriots really as good as they are?

HOLD, HOLD some more on offense, HOLD JUST A LITTLE MORE

and never get flagged for it.

they must have the single greatest offensive line in history to keep brady upright with 6-8 seconds to throw the ball consistently whenever needed.

oh i know they get called for holding, however, have you ever noticed that it is on like 3 and 15 and after an imcomplete pass?

i'm just saying.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Anything in that article about exploting salary cap loopholes?

That would be the realm of the Broncos and 49ers.HTH.

You're not seriously going to deny this are you?

 

[Road Warriors]

Anything in that article about exploting salary cap loopholes?

That would be the realm of the Broncos and 49ers.HTH.

You're not seriously going to deny this are you?

Could you expound on this? I'm not familiar with these accuasations.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Anything in that article about exploting salary cap loopholes?

That would be the realm of the Broncos and 49ers.HTH.

You're not seriously going to deny this are you?

Could you expound on this? I'm not familiar with these accuasations.

The Pats, Vikings and Eagles were all well known exploiters of the LTBE bonus loophole under the old salary cap system. Not coincidently, the Eagles and Pats have been two of the two best teams the last 7 years or so. The Vikes just did it to be cheap.

 

[maxwelledison]

how are the patriots really as good as they are?HOLD, HOLD some more on offense, HOLD JUST A LITTLE MOREand never get flagged for it. they must have the single greatest offensive line in history to keep brady upright with 6-8 seconds to throw the ball consistently whenever needed.oh i know they get called for holding, however, have you ever noticed that it is on like 3 and 15 and after an imcomplete pass?i'm just saying.

Get a clue.

 

[Road Warriors]

Anything in that article about exploting salary cap loopholes?

That would be the realm of the Broncos and 49ers.HTH.

You're not seriously going to deny this are you?

Could you expound on this? I'm not familiar with these accuasations.

The Pats, Vikings and Eagles were all well known exploiters of the LTBE bonus loophole under the old salary cap system. Not coincidently, the Eagles and Pats have been two of the two best teams the last 7 years or so. The Vikes just did it to be cheap.

I hadn't heard much about this over the past few years. It doesn't seem like much of an advantage, IMO. As I understand it, the team can add incentives that meet the criteria of NLTBE, and defer the cap hit until the following year, assuming the incentive is hit. While that will allow current payment of money to be deferred to the following year's cap, it still is carried as cap money, and would reduce your year N+1 cap, right? Effectively dead money on the N+1 cap.I really am unfamiliar with this loophole and how a team could really exploit it long term for signifcant advantage.

 

[Pai Mei]

I think the biggest reason is how they draft. They select OL and DL all the time in the draft. For years, we hear about how they are so thin in the secondary, and how they have to plug in a WR to play back there. That didn't happen because Bill Belichick wasn't prepared for injuries. That's by design. You win games by winning the line of scrimmage. You win by stopping Jerome Bettis on 4th and 1. Richard Seymour missed like half the season in 2007. But they have such depth on the line that they didn't miss a beat and went like 7-0 without him. I remember drafts where experts predict the Patriots are gonna have to select multiple DBs, and once again they select another lineman instead. If it was anyone but the Patriots, they would get laughed at for doing it, but people just had nothing to say expect, "well the guy has multiple super bowls he must really like that guy".

If you look at their high picks, their top 4 picks, the overwhelming majority of those selections are on the lines. Because in football its all about blocking and tackling.

 

[Pai Mei]

Another huge key with the Patriots is you never hear about great players failing to develop under Belichick's tutelage and going on to have success elsewhere. Its always the other way around. Players people think are washed up go to new England and have a rebirth.

One of the biggest failings of any leader is to become impatient with his men, to focus on their failings, and belittle them, and blame them for the problem. A good leader realizes no one is perfect and understands that his job is to put people in a position to succeed. That's why guys like Randy Moss or Junior Seau have a rebirth under Belichick.

 

[Baby New Year]

Pats do it 19x/year.

 

[maxwelledison]

In my view one of the significant strengths of the Patriots can be broken down into two related parts: First, they have the courage of their convictions. They do not get away from how they have prepared. Of course, any NFL fan knows that on its own this can be a terrible trait for a staff to have. Accordingly, the importance of the second element cannot be understated: those convictions are usually based on accurate observations and outside-the-box thinking. Put another way, the Pats are not afraid to approach games with this attitude: "OK, you can do anything out here, run any play, any defense, any scheme, but the one thing you are not going to do is X" (where X is the key to the other team's success as they have identified it).

Despite the amount of time, energy and money that goes into NFL coaching I think continuing this is a highly underappreciated and underrated skill. The result is that certain teams will either have no clue how to approach a given week or will inexplicably get away from things that work while they are still working (see Bears on both counts). The Patriots never do this. In the Ravens game Brady threw 21 out of 23 offensive plays in the first half and one of the runs was a scramble. This means they called one offensive running play in the first half of an NFL game. Say what you like about their success in that half or the personnel involved but how many teams would have the cajones to operate like this? My guess is very few. Again, look at the Bears...they will tell you they are going to utilize TE's all day long because Dez Clark is having a great year and Olsen is a weapon and we have gameplanned for it, blah, blah, blah, but undoubtedly they get away from that concept whether it is working or not (even this year when it was pretty much the only thing that worked).