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How the rest of the world views America (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bostonfred
- Start date
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
When a group of people have operated with extreme advantage for a long time, even a slight move back towards equality feels like persecution to many of them.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I get that idea, but as straight white guy I don't feel like I/we have moved backwards but instead are sharing the stage or like a football team that has added more weapons a movie with a strong cast. I still have my Hemingway, Don Draper and Frank Sinatra but now there are more options if that isn't ones jam or if one wants a little variety. Also I still feel pretty damn advantaged.
It is more like I grew up with WWII stories. Going to the moon. The collapse of the USSR. Smart people.
It was mainly pride in the USA but as a white guy their was also an element of pride in that too. My grandfather fought in the war and people in my community put us on the moon.
That sense of pride has really evaporated since the collapse of the economy in 2008 and now culminating with Trump.
Feels like walking into the cockpit of an airplane and no one is flying.
I think in the long run it can be a good thing. Has caused me to really question my base racial stereotypes.
To put it bluntly white males have gone crazy. Will only make the playing field more even.
GROOT
Footballguy
Because posting from a reddit titled "murdered by words" requires time and thought RIGHT?
The General
Footballguy
I honestly couldn’t get through more than half the comments. Read like a bunch of college kids. A bunch of stuff about the vets getting on planes first, the anthem at sporting events, and guns everywhere. Yawn.
Guns are ####ed here. I don’t get it Point taken. But I honestly never think about guns ever in my day to day. Never even crosses my mind.
Travelled all around the world and this is the best county in whole by far IMO, it’s not really close. Mostly because of our size and variety but it is what it is. We have everything here. Mountains, oceans deserts, plains, hill country, cities, on and on.
There are all kinds of ####ty places but our best is the best and there’s lots of it.
Maybe if Europe teamed up they could challenge.
Guns are ####ed here. I don’t get it Point taken. But I honestly never think about guns ever in my day to day. Never even crosses my mind.
Travelled all around the world and this is the best county in whole by far IMO, it’s not really close. Mostly because of our size and variety but it is what it is. We have everything here. Mountains, oceans deserts, plains, hill country, cities, on and on.
There are all kinds of ####ty places but our best is the best and there’s lots of it.
Maybe if Europe teamed up they could challenge.
msommer
Footballguy
on the bolded. It only seems to matter to a select few people who selfidentify their country as the best on Earth
rockaction
Footballguy
It doesn't matter to me, either, so you can count me and jonessed as two conservative-leaning folks who just don't see the importance of it. There are lots of wonderful places on Earth to live. There are lots of places that are woefully scabrous, to put it nicely. I feel fortunate to have been born in a wonderful, stable place. Every day I thank God and the cosmos for that. I have no need for it to be the best.
rockaction
Footballguy
I also agree with this. To ascertain what America is about from the news is a fool's errand. It's not fake, but the emphasis is sure staggering. Even KTLA at night is disturbing, and I live right in the heart of its coverage.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Had this "things that make you go hmmmmm" moment talking to a German guy on a cruise some years back when he asked me when "white" became a race in America. He said, by far, the most baffling thing about our country is how we used that term. And after thinking about it and observing here in this country, he's absolutely right. If I had to answer maybe it was the census back in the day?
whoknew
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
It's interesting to me that the response from so many people on the right was identical.
- i didn't read it
- it is wrong
I'll add you to the list of people who didn't read the thread but still commented on it. That list only seems to include people on your side of the aisle.
A lot of the comments in the thread specifically reference their experience, not the news. They cite things like visits to the US, or comments they see from Americans on reddit, or questions they've been asked by Americans. In fact they are aware of the effect you're describing and say that they thought something was overblown in the media, until they saw it with their own eyes. Like the number of American flags we have here.
What's interesting to me is how many of you guys responded the same way.
Why do you think you avoid reading things you expect to disagree with?
Why do you feel the need to comment when you do?
Are you aware that you do this?
Ned
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
"Americans are arrogant and oblivious to the opinions of others."
"Who cares what those foreigners think?"
"Who cares what those foreigners think?"
The Commish
Footballguy
This will all be dismissed as anecdote. Another genuine question is "How many individual anecdotes supporting each other does it take to cause that self reflection?" Of course, with some the answer is never. WIth those people they go through life trying to find support for their preconceived notion.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Seriously, self-reflection is one of our poorest national traits. But if your wife or your friends confided to you about a particular habit or behavior was annoying or rude, most of us would stop and think about that, if for no other reason than to make sure we maintain good relations with those closest to us. Too many of us don't seem to be able to make the same leap in self-reflection if the criticism comes from outside the nation's borders and that's a shame imo.
rockaction
Footballguy
It should not for one minute surprise you that some of us read the OP and started, with limited time in our lives, to dismiss the exercise as stupid or self-flagellating. This can't be that difficult to understand, really.
I read it. I thought most of his comments were ignorant based on ridiculous left-wing spin. The vast majority of abotions in this country are still legal in all 50 states and most women do not get harrassed when they go to a clinic. Non-white people are not going to get killed by calling the police. I visited many countries and have had attempts at people lifting my wallet and my girlfriend actually had her wallet stolen. I have had a very very close friend murdered in Brazil. I have been in more precurious situations in my foreign travel than I have faced in a lifetime of living in the US. The idea that some have expressed they are risking their lives simply to visit the US is absolutely absurd. No, just because people find these comments ignorant and stupid does not mean they did not read them. Add me to whatever list you want. I will add you to the list of liberals who can't comprehend and can't tolerate different opinions.
rockaction
Footballguy
Some people on the right are hyper-aware of the criticisms of America. I am one of them who is, and it goes way, way further than the typical "ugly American" type of tourist comment made. I wouldn't draw a generalization based on this anecdote, that's for sure.
- I mean, it's partially the lack of time we have in a day that could be spent doing other things
- It's partially because of the OP
- It's partially that a lot of the comments apparently weren't experience-based.
And so on...
It's really because some of us don't really look to read a ton of comments in a reddit thread that you provided where the OP is sorta rocks off, if you catch my drift.
- I mean, it's partially the lack of time we have in a day that could be spent doing other things
- It's partially because of the OP
- It's partially that a lot of the comments apparently weren't experience-based.
And so on...
It's really because some of us don't really look to read a ton of comments in a reddit thread that you provided where the OP is sorta rocks off, if you catch my drift.
bostonfred
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, the OP posting a reddit thread and then drawing generalizations from some guys who always give one-word answers to criticisms of America is not going to help suss out how the "right" feels about this.
bostonfred
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
How.? Most of "his" comments could refer to the OP's comment. Am I missing something?
The OP where it begins "The whole country is a ####box" nested in other quotes, but taken out as an OP.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, I spent 60 seconds or so scrolling through the link in the OP and genuinely didn't understand what I was supposed to be getting out of it. Other than that this place is way, way better than Reddit.
rockaction
Footballguy
Maybe that's the confusion.
And I won't lie. I still didn't read it. I've done a ton of these sort of exercises in the op-ed pages that I read daily and used to read religiously. It's imperative that at least once or twice a week we find out the pulse of European leader and common folk thought if one does that.
Seriously. Don't really need another exercise in it.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is sort of like Moses coming down the mount with the Ten Commandments or something and one side (liberals) are hooting about how revelatory it is, and the other side is kind of like "already ####### read it. Stop with the badgering."
eta* And we know Mel Brooks did that re-enactment best, anyway.
eta* And we know Mel Brooks did that re-enactment best, anyway.
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Atomic Punk
Footballguy
Canadian here that lives a little over an hour from the US border and has travelled to 18 different states a total of about 50 trips.
Speaking in generalities, I am pretty confident that the following is a good sketch of now many Canadians think of the good ol USA:
* Like an older brother. Look up to you in many ways. Wish we were you are at times. Occasionally you do things that makes us say "thank God I'm not him!"
* People are genuinely nice, hospitable and will give you the shirt off their backs if you are in need.
* Arrogant when it comes to discussion of your country. There are many amazing countries in this world (mine included) that all have their pros and cons. Constantly pounding the "we are the greatest" drum just seems odd to us.
* Many in my circles have recently indicated they will not travel to the US. I do not believe this is out of fear but rather out of spite to the current leader of your country. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant but it is clear to me that your leader is dragging down the overall perception of the country as a whole.
There was a discussion in another thread about the freedoms US enjoys over Canada and someone mentioned speech as an example of the many freedoms they have over us. This couldn't be further from the truth but is a perfect example of the odd stance some Americans take without having any real knowledge on which to base this perspective.
All in all, I think most Canadians appreciate the US but not many of us really want to trade places with you.
Speaking in generalities, I am pretty confident that the following is a good sketch of now many Canadians think of the good ol USA:
* Like an older brother. Look up to you in many ways. Wish we were you are at times. Occasionally you do things that makes us say "thank God I'm not him!"
* People are genuinely nice, hospitable and will give you the shirt off their backs if you are in need.
* Arrogant when it comes to discussion of your country. There are many amazing countries in this world (mine included) that all have their pros and cons. Constantly pounding the "we are the greatest" drum just seems odd to us.
* Many in my circles have recently indicated they will not travel to the US. I do not believe this is out of fear but rather out of spite to the current leader of your country. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant but it is clear to me that your leader is dragging down the overall perception of the country as a whole.
There was a discussion in another thread about the freedoms US enjoys over Canada and someone mentioned speech as an example of the many freedoms they have over us. This couldn't be further from the truth but is a perfect example of the odd stance some Americans take without having any real knowledge on which to base this perspective.
All in all, I think most Canadians appreciate the US but not many of us really want to trade places with you.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I never think about guns either. We live in a country of 340 million people so there are always going to be some idiots. Early this year I was in France, Spain and Italy, then went to Warsaw for 3 days. In France, Spain and Italy the people we encountered were so nice. The people there actually seem to love America and were asking me all kinds of questions and not one Trump or politcal question.
I loved Warsaw, spent more in France in 1 day than I did in Warsaw in 3 days. In 10 days I never heard Trumps name, nor any political talk at all. People just living their lives.
rockaction
Footballguy
This was my experience. Maybe people are astute enough to know that we don't necessarily like to talk about our current administration? I think that was part of it, to answer my own question. I think very few people that bring up the current state of politics get a response that they expect.
Or maybe it's because Europe is more sympathetic and understands the movement towards the right in countries. You have Berlusconi, the Australian gov't, etc. It seems to be a worldwide phenomenon.
Plus, Europe is used to the right. It played a large role (understatement of the year) in the 20th Century and continues to do so.
rockaction
Footballguy
I take the first two points of the quoted, take them easily, but disagree with the speech point. Whenever one is dragged in front of government tribunals for certain political speech, Americans are right to think that their speech is more protected. I'm thinking Mark Steyn here, whatever one might think of him.
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Van Dyman
Footballguy
Seems plausible, though I would suspect you are thinking of it as a simple courtesy. I mean, if they (Europeans) see our situation as something that they would be embarrassed about if it were happening in their country, better to not broach an embarrassing subject with the visiting American...to spare him the unpleasantness. Intentional avoidance of the topic might boil down to their disapproval of what is happening here (or, at least, their perception of it)...which could, itself, be just as telling as a forthright conversation.
Still, I would expect that courtesy to be applied more to American tourists (strangers) and less so when the visiting American is a close friend or family. Da guru's trip sounded touristy, but I (perhaps wrongly) thought you were visiting family.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
In the seventies, my parents hosted Brazilian exchange students, at a time when their home country was dealing with military rule. They would look away and quietly change the subject if Brazilian politics were brought up and it's a little funny and a little sad that we're now in the sorta the same boat when asked about our own government by outsiders.
"Trump? Don't know the guy personally."
"Trump? Don't know the guy personally."
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rockaction
Footballguy
Yes, I agree with the bolded. I wasn't claiming that avoidance isn't somewhat telling, just that my experience wasn't as overtly negative towards the current situation as tim's. Perhaps tim's garrulity spills over into real life, whereas some of us who are more temperamentally reserved don't get that greasy-wheel/oil dynamic of honest conversation.
And I was definitely a tourist over there. There was no family to speak of. I'm American-Italian, but with no real Italian roots. It was hotels and tours.
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