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How to Buy a New Car- I might save you money (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter AcerFC
- Start date
moleculo
Footballguy
give the newest one to the youngest. They always get hand-me-downs anyways, might be nice to have something better than his brothers.
I may. Maybe if my oldest ends up working after college (he’ll be a senior) instead of grad school, I can assist him with an extra down payment after he decides he’s done with his current car. His was a grandfather hand me down before he passed so he’s the only one who actually owns his car.
Also, if I give my car to my youngest, I may just share it with him for a bit. As you know we work from home and my middle son is done with travel sports going into his senior year and that was a big driver of the real need for two cars. I’ve got almost a year and half to decide anyway. We’ll see where the car and stock market is then!
pollardsvision
Footballguy
My 4 vehicles average 22.5 years old. Range from 19-26 years old.
My driveway starting to look like used car lot from Bush's 1st term.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Thanks for the responses. This might be the most confusing time to buy a car in my memory. And things had gotten so simple too... :(
Moleculo, thanks for laying out your process. I used the internet route with our mini-van prior to the most recent one, and let the dealers work FOR me to find the car I was looking for. The last 2 cars I just did a lot of searching on autotrader and other sites, decided on what we wanted with a couple of test drives, and then bided my time until the car I wanted was available at the price I was willing to pay.
In general, any thoughts about leasing? It seems to me that leasing (with or without option to purchase?) might be the more cost effective approach at this time, if you assume the market will cool off at some point in the next 3-5 years.
Moleculo, thanks for laying out your process. I used the internet route with our mini-van prior to the most recent one, and let the dealers work FOR me to find the car I was looking for. The last 2 cars I just did a lot of searching on autotrader and other sites, decided on what we wanted with a couple of test drives, and then bided my time until the car I wanted was available at the price I was willing to pay.
In general, any thoughts about leasing? It seems to me that leasing (with or without option to purchase?) might be the more cost effective approach at this time, if you assume the market will cool off at some point in the next 3-5 years.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I'm very ignorant on leasing, so I'm surely the last person to ask.Psychopav said:
But I'd think this is a really bad time to lease (and I already don't like the idea). If there were ever a good time to lease, it would have been a couple of years ago right before the car prices shot through the roof. Leases ending right now are seeing a weird situation where dealers couldn't have predicted what the value of cars would be today with older leases ending. People are actually able to buy out their lease right now, sell it, and make a nice profit. Which must drive dealers insane.
I can't imagine they are going to take that chance with current leases. Current values are high, they have low inventory. I'd imagine the buyouts they are putting on current leases would be really high.
And again, they have low inventory. There's no incentive to offer a good deal on a lease. Dealers used to love them because it was a great way to make a lot of money on a car (it's generally a very expensive way to own a vehicle). But right now it's not hard to make money on a car.
Again, I'm the last person to ask. But I just can't imagine leases (or car loans) are a good idea when values are through the roof. When cars start doing what they've always done again (depreciate rapidly), leasing and borrowing for them at the top can't end well.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Leasing right now is horrible.Psychopav said:
New car prices at MSRP and limited inventory make it difficult to get any kind of reasonable lease deals. And interest rates are awful.
I've posted about leasing on this site quite a bit, big fan for many reasons (if you know what you're doing), and would not lease right now at all. Haven't owned a car in 15 years and just bought one as leasing terms are horrendous.
moleculo
Footballguy
Yeah, it's a messed up time.Psychopav said:
Before I started the internet thing, I went to a local dealer. The guy kept feeding me things that weren't exactly perfect and I shot them down. Eventually, he stopped responding to emails and texts. I assume he decided I was a time-suck and it's best to move on. That's when I realized this isn't a buyers market. If I'm a PITA customer, it won't take him long to find someone who isn't.
so I went to another local dealer. Good dude - tried hard to work it, but they simply didn't have inventory and they only got like one or two trucks in a month, and the odds of them getting exactly the color and trim that I wanted was low.
So if it's an odds game, I should be working with as many dealers as I can.
the trick was figuring out how to connect with the internet salesman. I know that's a different game there- my wife actually used to run the internet sales for a Cadillac dealer in Ft. Lauderdale. Back in the old days, the policy was to offer the lowest price they could up front for internet shoppers because they knew people were working multiple dealers at the same time - I.e. less haggling needed for me.
But that's not today's game. From what I could tell, if you are at MSRP you are doing good. Dealers won't budge below because... why should they? So once you find what you want at MSRP, it's just a matter of avoiding upsells.
Random
Footballguy
I'll echo that this is a horrible time to try to buy a new car.
A little background. I bought a new Ram 2500 in 2017 due to having some heavy equipment to haul around. Paid around $44k, have 58,xxx miles on it and was offered $38.5 cash for it from a dealer (best price of multiple dealers/carvana). I dont need the truck anymore, so I was going to sell/trade it for either a new family vehicle (phev suv or commuter car (electric), but we cant find anything that isn't ridiculously marked up.
Should I go ahead and sell the truck and wait for the market to cool off/vehicles become available? We have a third car that I can use in the interim. No immediate need for the cash, just concerned that truck will lose a lot of value if we hit a recession.
A little background. I bought a new Ram 2500 in 2017 due to having some heavy equipment to haul around. Paid around $44k, have 58,xxx miles on it and was offered $38.5 cash for it from a dealer (best price of multiple dealers/carvana). I dont need the truck anymore, so I was going to sell/trade it for either a new family vehicle (phev suv or commuter car (electric), but we cant find anything that isn't ridiculously marked up.
Should I go ahead and sell the truck and wait for the market to cool off/vehicles become available? We have a third car that I can use in the interim. No immediate need for the cash, just concerned that truck will lose a lot of value if we hit a recession.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I would and hold off buying another until we are deep into this recession.Random said:
massraider
Footballguy
I'm not an expert on any of this, but this is a great time to sell your used car, and if you don't HAVE to get another car, that seems like dream scenario.Random said:
Sullie
Footballguy
TLDR - I bought a 2018 Toyota Tacoma last year and I traded it in for a 2021 Ford F-150 XLT, it took a long time but I'm happy.
In 2021, I decided I really wanted a pickup truck. I searched and searched and found a 2018 Tacoma TRD Off Road V6 w/a 6MT w/39k miles on it and it was pretty much perfect inside and out. I traded my 2016 Subaru WRX 6MT w/50k miles on it for about $5k less than what I originally paid for it so I was pleased with that.
After about 6 months with the Tacoma, I found I just didn't love it and I found myself constantly wishing I had bought a full sized truck. I didn't buy one originally b/c I figured it wouldn't fit my garage. I did some measuring and I found it would fit but I would need to rip out some built in cabinets and counter top the original owner of my home installed in the garage. The cabinets were kinda janky looking, I never really liked them but I never wanted to deal with them. Anyway, I test drove the Tundra, Denali, F-150, Titan, Silverado and RAM 1500 and I ended up liking the F-150 the most. I felt the RAM had the best interior and ride but the 21+ F-150 (to me) was the best all rounder. Honestly, I liked them all as I'm kind of a brand whore, I really like all the brands.
So, after I test drove all the variations of F-150's I was interested in (2.7T, 3.5T, 5.0L) and I ended up on the XLT, 5.0L V8 w/a few options like a tow package, 4x4, 302A, sunroof, 360 camera, etc. as my desired truck so I searched. I searched and searched and searched but I had certain stipulations. I wanted a truck w/15k miles or less, no accidents, one owner (preferred), I did NOT want leather (I really hate leather seats these days, just not my thing, I'm not a vegan I just prefer cloth seats) and I wanted to get this truck under the truck's original MSRP which is easier said than done. . . also I wanted at least what I paid for my truck based on kbb combined with my research (like vehicles w/a full history, no accidents, new tires, etc.) as my Tacoma was fully certified (so all new fluids/filters, tires/etc.)
So, starting in February this year I put out feelers and I searched and searched and searched. I made offers on about 5 or 6 different trucks. About 2 months ago (I think it was) I made an offer on truck on in Pennsylvania. They made me a crappy offer on my truck and they wouldn't budge on their truck and I said to the guy "okay, thanks for your time but we're way too far off." A week later he starts in on me "you know you want this truck, blah, blah." I said "I do but your offer on mine is way too low, we were $5k apart" I said "we're wasting each other's time." I said I will do this deal if we meet dead in the middle so neither of us feels like we're getting ripped off, you come down $2,500 and I will come up $2,500, how about that? 3 days later, he sends me an offer, it's $500 less meaning I would have to come up $4,500 from my offer, again, I said "no thanks." We went back and forth until we were at $500 difference in their favor (again this has been going on for like 10 or 12 days at this point) and I stood my ground and we could not make a deal, which, ultimately I'm actually grateful that fell through because that truck had like $6k less in options than my truck and 10k more miles on it. Nice looking truck though but man are they stubborn. . . I know I was being stubborn too, I just wanted to meet in the middle.
I made another deal on one out in Virginia (about 10 hours from me) and we had it all set up and as I was driving to the dealership, their general manager called me and said "I'm sorry but another salesman already had an offer on this truck." Which sucked but I knew that meant the other salesmen had a better offer or the customer was financing through that dealership or whatever. Even though I was only about 30 minutes into my journey, I turned around, I kinda felt defeated a bit and I was really just about ready to give up because it was frustrating to find what I wanted for a price I was willing to pay but get a trade in offer that was acceptable you know? It feels like a juggling act and it's incredibly exhausting at times.
About 3 days after that deal fell through I got a call from a dealership just south of Cleveland (so only 4.5 hours from me) called, we talked back and forth, they offered me the most for my truck ($2k more than I paid for it a year ago) and the F-150 they had for sale had everything I wanted (almost the same as the other truck in VA) plus a few more things, it only had 5k miles on it and it was $6k under MSRP. plus they only charged $250 in their paperwork fees, the one in VA STARTED off at $899 in fees and started trying to add $999 in more fees. Anyway, in the old days, (to me) $6k off MSRP for a one year old vehicle w/5k miles wouldn't have been a great deal or anything to brag about but in this market, I was thrilled. . . and they didn't sell it out from under me so there was that. Around where I'm at, here in Indianapolis, I see crap like this. 2022 F-150 full MSRP plus "market adjustments" starting at $2k, $3k, etc. I've seen Ram's marked up $5k, Denali's marked up $3k, etc. The typical deal I would see is a 2 or 3 year old F-150, w/20k -30k miles on it, with an asking price of full MSRP of that truck brand new 2-3 years ago. A lot (not all) but a lot of Ford's you can get the MSRP label for free if you go here : https://www.windowsticker.forddirect.com/windowsticker.pdf?vin= and tack the vin on at the end of that link. I ended up having to go to monroneylables.com and buying a few window stickers just so I could see all the options, the original price, etc.
I got my own financing ahead of time, my local credit union was offering 2.5% for 5 years if I wanted to go out that far and I found a dealership online that sells Ford factory warranties for $50 over cost, I've yet to find anyone that will match their pricing so I will probably go with them for the extended warranty, I haven't purchased that warranty yet, still mulling it over.
So, you can find a decent deal in this market, it's not easy, it takes a lot of time and patience but I believe if you have your heart set on it, do your research, stand your ground, you can find a good deal. . .not great but you don't have to get ripped off.
In 2021, I decided I really wanted a pickup truck. I searched and searched and found a 2018 Tacoma TRD Off Road V6 w/a 6MT w/39k miles on it and it was pretty much perfect inside and out. I traded my 2016 Subaru WRX 6MT w/50k miles on it for about $5k less than what I originally paid for it so I was pleased with that.
After about 6 months with the Tacoma, I found I just didn't love it and I found myself constantly wishing I had bought a full sized truck. I didn't buy one originally b/c I figured it wouldn't fit my garage. I did some measuring and I found it would fit but I would need to rip out some built in cabinets and counter top the original owner of my home installed in the garage. The cabinets were kinda janky looking, I never really liked them but I never wanted to deal with them. Anyway, I test drove the Tundra, Denali, F-150, Titan, Silverado and RAM 1500 and I ended up liking the F-150 the most. I felt the RAM had the best interior and ride but the 21+ F-150 (to me) was the best all rounder. Honestly, I liked them all as I'm kind of a brand whore, I really like all the brands.
So, after I test drove all the variations of F-150's I was interested in (2.7T, 3.5T, 5.0L) and I ended up on the XLT, 5.0L V8 w/a few options like a tow package, 4x4, 302A, sunroof, 360 camera, etc. as my desired truck so I searched. I searched and searched and searched but I had certain stipulations. I wanted a truck w/15k miles or less, no accidents, one owner (preferred), I did NOT want leather (I really hate leather seats these days, just not my thing, I'm not a vegan I just prefer cloth seats) and I wanted to get this truck under the truck's original MSRP which is easier said than done. . . also I wanted at least what I paid for my truck based on kbb combined with my research (like vehicles w/a full history, no accidents, new tires, etc.) as my Tacoma was fully certified (so all new fluids/filters, tires/etc.)
So, starting in February this year I put out feelers and I searched and searched and searched. I made offers on about 5 or 6 different trucks. About 2 months ago (I think it was) I made an offer on truck on in Pennsylvania. They made me a crappy offer on my truck and they wouldn't budge on their truck and I said to the guy "okay, thanks for your time but we're way too far off." A week later he starts in on me "you know you want this truck, blah, blah." I said "I do but your offer on mine is way too low, we were $5k apart" I said "we're wasting each other's time." I said I will do this deal if we meet dead in the middle so neither of us feels like we're getting ripped off, you come down $2,500 and I will come up $2,500, how about that? 3 days later, he sends me an offer, it's $500 less meaning I would have to come up $4,500 from my offer, again, I said "no thanks." We went back and forth until we were at $500 difference in their favor (again this has been going on for like 10 or 12 days at this point) and I stood my ground and we could not make a deal, which, ultimately I'm actually grateful that fell through because that truck had like $6k less in options than my truck and 10k more miles on it. Nice looking truck though but man are they stubborn. . . I know I was being stubborn too, I just wanted to meet in the middle.
I made another deal on one out in Virginia (about 10 hours from me) and we had it all set up and as I was driving to the dealership, their general manager called me and said "I'm sorry but another salesman already had an offer on this truck." Which sucked but I knew that meant the other salesmen had a better offer or the customer was financing through that dealership or whatever. Even though I was only about 30 minutes into my journey, I turned around, I kinda felt defeated a bit and I was really just about ready to give up because it was frustrating to find what I wanted for a price I was willing to pay but get a trade in offer that was acceptable you know? It feels like a juggling act and it's incredibly exhausting at times.
About 3 days after that deal fell through I got a call from a dealership just south of Cleveland (so only 4.5 hours from me) called, we talked back and forth, they offered me the most for my truck ($2k more than I paid for it a year ago) and the F-150 they had for sale had everything I wanted (almost the same as the other truck in VA) plus a few more things, it only had 5k miles on it and it was $6k under MSRP. plus they only charged $250 in their paperwork fees, the one in VA STARTED off at $899 in fees and started trying to add $999 in more fees. Anyway, in the old days, (to me) $6k off MSRP for a one year old vehicle w/5k miles wouldn't have been a great deal or anything to brag about but in this market, I was thrilled. . . and they didn't sell it out from under me so there was that. Around where I'm at, here in Indianapolis, I see crap like this. 2022 F-150 full MSRP plus "market adjustments" starting at $2k, $3k, etc. I've seen Ram's marked up $5k, Denali's marked up $3k, etc. The typical deal I would see is a 2 or 3 year old F-150, w/20k -30k miles on it, with an asking price of full MSRP of that truck brand new 2-3 years ago. A lot (not all) but a lot of Ford's you can get the MSRP label for free if you go here : https://www.windowsticker.forddirect.com/windowsticker.pdf?vin= and tack the vin on at the end of that link. I ended up having to go to monroneylables.com and buying a few window stickers just so I could see all the options, the original price, etc.
I got my own financing ahead of time, my local credit union was offering 2.5% for 5 years if I wanted to go out that far and I found a dealership online that sells Ford factory warranties for $50 over cost, I've yet to find anyone that will match their pricing so I will probably go with them for the extended warranty, I haven't purchased that warranty yet, still mulling it over.
So, you can find a decent deal in this market, it's not easy, it takes a lot of time and patience but I believe if you have your heart set on it, do your research, stand your ground, you can find a good deal. . .not great but you don't have to get ripped off.
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Gopher State
Footballguy
Nice job but it takes time. I found a new suv that we like but it is 12 hours from us hybrid vehicle at sticker, still to much IMO.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Own a 2018 F150 XLT V6 and love it. Favorite vehicle I've ever owned. I can't imagine ever driving anything else.
Random
Footballguy
This is what we're looking for. Kia Sorento PHEV SX-P. Dealers are anywhere from 3-7K over sticker, orders are 3-12 months out (been told various timelines) and 1500+ over sticker. I'm willing to fly to get one at sticker.
FairWarning
Footballguy
The purchase quote on my 2020 equinox lease is $21000. I only have 23k miles and have 12 more months on the lease. Should I just buy it outright now? I don’t have time to do nationwide searches, prefer to do business locally.
-OZ-
Footballguy
That’s my plan. My job is stable but that’s the best part about it. We’ve discussed getting a telluride or highlander but our odyssey continues to run just fine. When son #2 goes to college, leaving only 3 at home, the SUV makes sense.
our fleet averages 11 years - 07 highlander, 08 civic, 11 odyssey, 18 RAV4. Sons drive the 07 and 08.
Random
Footballguy
Only issue is it will leave us with my wifes mini van (2015) and our not yet driving 15yo son 2016 Hyundai (pretty bare bones). Not sure if I'll make it through the winter without heated seats and he'll be driving in April. Kind of a small window for prices to drop significantly.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Depends on the rest of your leasing terms. If you have reasonable payments with a good interest rate on your lease, then there's no need to buy it now. You are literally and figuratively in the driver's seat because that payoff amount is locked in from the terms of the lease.
The only reason to buy it now is if you are looking to turn around and sell it right away. If you don't need the vehicle or have found something else, then yes, this is a great time to do that and make some serious profit. But if you're planning on keeping the vehicle, then it doesn't matter if you buy it now or buy it just before lease end. Also, depending on your state, you're avoiding paying that sales tax until later as well.
What you DO NOT want to do is turn it in at the end of the lease. You'd be handing them free money.
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Random
Footballguy
We pivoted and ordered a Model 3 Performance. Decided to keep the minivan a little while longer. Car dealers (and that whole system) just need to go. So easy (almost too easy) to just go online and order a Tesla.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Senor Schmutzig
Footballguy
2000 Jeep Cherokee
2007 Nissan Murano
2019 Audi Q5
Average Age = 13.3 years old. Slightly above the norm in my household.
This is Miami where "flashy" is in. Thankfully, we don't need to keep up with the Jones'.
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
I think some other automakers are trying to move away from the dealership model (particularly with how they are not thrilled with the markups going on these days) but, surprise, surprise...... dealerships have a really good lobby group to help keep laws in place to prevent it.
massraider
Footballguy
NYC levies huge fines against car dealers, cites 7,000 consumer violations
They agree to pay $800,000 and follow several rules on advertising and pricing
Chris Teague
There’s never been a worse time to buy a new or used car, but some dealers have gone out of their way to make the experience even more excruciating. There are markups, dealer add-ons, inventory issues, vehicles being sold out from under customers, and many other shady activities. New York City finally reached a tipping point with a group of car dealers, forcing them to pay enormous fines and agree to shape up.
The dealers include Kings Autoshow, Kings Autoshow II, and Grand Auto Group, which run such dealerships as Brooklyn Mitsubishi and Brooklyn Volkswagen. The New York Department of Consumer and Worker Protection (DCWP) found that the dealers committed more than 7,000 violations of consumer protection rules, leading to more than $800,000 in restitution and civil penalties. The Kings Autoshow dealers also agreed to a brief suspension of their licenses.
In addition to fees, the judgment includes requirements for dealers to comply with NYC rules on advertising and customer communication. The dealers agreed to:
Not sell a car for more than the advertised price.
Not tack on dealer fees (other than the $175 documentation fee) beyond the advertised price.
Not use terms such as "no dealer fee" if they charge that documentation fee.
Not use confusing pricing terminology such as "Brooklyn MSRP" or "retail price."
Not advertise "guaranteed approval" for financing.
Not advertise accessories unless they are actually on the advertised car.
We’re guessing you’ve seen car sales language like that, maybe even from large dealer groups in your area. Not all of these promises and advertising are scams, as most dealers follow through on their language, though some may require a little arm twisting.
The important thing for you, as the buyer, is to remember that you're buying into the seller as well as the vehicle. If you don’t trust the dealer or private seller and believe they’re either misleading you or leaving out important information, move on. Don’t get emotionally invested in the transaction, because you could ignore red flags and spend more than you need to.
They agree to pay $800,000 and follow several rules on advertising and pricing
Chris Teague
There’s never been a worse time to buy a new or used car, but some dealers have gone out of their way to make the experience even more excruciating. There are markups, dealer add-ons, inventory issues, vehicles being sold out from under customers, and many other shady activities. New York City finally reached a tipping point with a group of car dealers, forcing them to pay enormous fines and agree to shape up.
The dealers include Kings Autoshow, Kings Autoshow II, and Grand Auto Group, which run such dealerships as Brooklyn Mitsubishi and Brooklyn Volkswagen. The New York Department of Consumer and Worker Protection (DCWP) found that the dealers committed more than 7,000 violations of consumer protection rules, leading to more than $800,000 in restitution and civil penalties. The Kings Autoshow dealers also agreed to a brief suspension of their licenses.
In addition to fees, the judgment includes requirements for dealers to comply with NYC rules on advertising and customer communication. The dealers agreed to:
Not sell a car for more than the advertised price.
Not tack on dealer fees (other than the $175 documentation fee) beyond the advertised price.
Not use terms such as "no dealer fee" if they charge that documentation fee.
Not use confusing pricing terminology such as "Brooklyn MSRP" or "retail price."
Not advertise "guaranteed approval" for financing.
Not advertise accessories unless they are actually on the advertised car.
We’re guessing you’ve seen car sales language like that, maybe even from large dealer groups in your area. Not all of these promises and advertising are scams, as most dealers follow through on their language, though some may require a little arm twisting.
The important thing for you, as the buyer, is to remember that you're buying into the seller as well as the vehicle. If you don’t trust the dealer or private seller and believe they’re either misleading you or leaving out important information, move on. Don’t get emotionally invested in the transaction, because you could ignore red flags and spend more than you need to.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Anyone have any insight to the Genesis GV70? Wanting to buy one in the next few weeks. Would love to have the top of the line model with the larger engine and all the bells and whistles but WOW when did car payments push over 1k monthly? Guess it might be time to blow the dust off the wallet and put down some cash.
MTskibum
Footballguy
According to Consumer Genesis has the highest satisfaction out of any brand. They must be doing something right.
I have not researched the gv80, but if i was to consider one I would read the below forums. People complaining about problems would not scare me off. Even the most reliable vehicles, like the Tundra and Landcruiser, have dedicated forums where people complain about reliability.
I would strongly consider multiple Genesis models, the g70 with a stick shift would be awesome. However, even if your research turns out that the gv80 is a great vehicle it directly competes against the Lexus RX 350 which is the same price and will almost certainly be heads and shoulders above the gv80 in both resale value and reliability. The rx350 is simply one of the best vehicles out there in any class.
The GV80 may offer more luxury for the money though.
gv 80 forums:
Genesis GV80 Problems and Reliability
Complaints, issues, problems, defects, TSBs, and recalls
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