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Sure. And again, to each is own, so no trying to convince coming from my end. But for a God to punish us for even being born via torture and damnation FOR ETERNITY, then make the process of salvation ambiguous, unclear and left for interpretation seems pretty unloving. Yet the ultimate in loving is how he’s is described. It makes zero sense.
I have a lot to say on this subject, but I want to understand where you come from and what your experience with religion has been (if any). And I want to understand that specifically because you said the bold. Do you mind sharing any of that? If so, that's cool. I'll just leave it at some simple comments and move on.
Like most American males I was raised with and around religion, even went to catholic school for a couple years during elementary school. But it wasn’t forced on me and neither parent is particularly religious either at this point.
You don't have to give or read them of course
Now apply that to political posts, or yoga pants, or spam, or, or, or…… what happens to those posts?
From the resurrection of Christ in 33 ad until now and until the Rapture of the church is the last days. God is using this time to give the Gentiles an opportunity to gain salvation
I'm not the one to call them the last days Jesus is. He also said it happens at a time when we don't know.
If you had a real interest in the Bible or had legitimate questions, I would have been happy to answer them for you. But seems like all you want to do is point your finger at me so enjoy yourself. Your kiss kind of wasting your own time.Thanks for continuing to prove my point
I won't leave threads like this because it's important for those who might stumble into them seeking to see the difference between people who preach at them and those who want to come along side them and help however they can like Jesus would.
I'll continue to encourage you to do a word study on "love". It's clear you are missing a TON. I'm even happy to talk about it should you have questions.
I study the Bible hours a day for many many years. I haven't seen anybody pose any biblical questions. Any that have imposed I have answered and given my opinion. I make no apologies for my opinions.
That's completely not true that I'm not part of these discussions. There hasn't been any discussion because the only thing that's happening is accusations about military and myself rather than genuine questions about the bible. The purpose of this thread is to answer questions about the Bible, not point fingers at me for answering them honestly. So if anyone has any legitimate questions about the Bible or this original post I am here to answer them.I throw my hat in the ring for this discussion. These kinds of things are discussed all the time around here even the threads the OP starts. It's just that the OP is usually not part of any of those discussions. So I say, fire away on questions, comments, thoughts and I'll do my best to ignore the nonsense that always gets us sidetracked from these kinds of discussions. Though, I make no promises!!
The Rapture is not given an exact timeline. The last sign given was when Israel became a nation in 1948. But Jesus did say that this generation shall not come to pass until all these things be fulfilled. I take that to mean that the generation that sees Israel become a nation in 1948 will not die off physically until the rapture happens. My father just happened to be born in 1948 and he is in his late seventies. However there are going to be people in his generation who live to be over 100 years old so will it happen an hour lifetime I hope so.
7 years after the Rapture it will be the second coming of Christ. During those seven years will be the Great tribulation. Where God will judge the Earth for their sins. That's when the Antichrist and all that stuff happens. The mark of the beast, the 666 and all that stuff. Anybody who places their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation will be killed immediately. Anybody who wants to live or save their life we'll have to take the mark of the beast, but by doing so they will be selling their soul to Satan. It's going to be a horrible time. But true Christians that are alive today will not be part of that, because they will be raptured and protected from that judgment from God.
So how do you know that "we are certainly living in the last days"?
And its the same **** in every thread.Paddington is just a spammer.I think the last couple of pages are a good answer to the question of why Joe lets these threads continue. Good discussion people!
Religious threads are welcome in the forum and these threads can exist entirely without his schtick and without supporting spam selectively.
This is an interesting way to interpret the Bible and it certainly does shift perspective to look at it metaphorically instead of literally.
Some would think this, sure. But why? Because that's the way you'd do it? Because it's "logical"? Because "it just makes sense to do it that way"? This too goes back to the points dgreen and I made before. Often times, we come at things like this with an expectation that we impose because that's how we'd do it or because that's what seems logical to us. We can't possibly look at things the same way an all knowing, understanding God would. This premise doesn't speak, as much to the problems with presentation as it does to our brokenness IMO. And often times, the "confusion" lies in the particular religion one is looking at the Bible through, not the Bible.
And what exactly is the spam that I'm doing?Paddington is just a spammer.I think the last couple of pages are a good answer to the question of why Joe lets these threads continue. Good discussion people!
Religious threads are welcome in the forum and these threads can exist entirely without his schtick and without supporting spam selectively.
Because Jesus Himself said we were.
That's the fair counterpoint to my point. I understand it.
If this is true, why doesn't God speak in terms we understand instead of in a way far above our understanding forcing us to make assumptions and interpretations we can't possibly understand? An all powerful God should be able to speak to us directly in a way we can understand in no uncertain terms. And if we're broken, why did God create us in his image and then break us?
Yeah, it was definitely a shift for me. A point of clarification, though, I'm not saying that I think it is all metaphorical. Some is metaphorical, some is literal. Any literature, and any communication, should be received in the way it was intended by the author. If the author intends to communicate that something actually happened, then the reader should understand that's the claim the author made.
I think why it's easier for me to believe that we came from "nothing" (though it's not that simple and i don't think true nothing comes from anyone other than maybe staunch atheists) is because of what we know about the origins of gases, stars, galaxies, matter, gravitational pull, ect. Unlike an intelligent creator we can "prove" these ideas with math and physics. The science is tangible and though never completely conclusive there's no need for complete blind faith. We have the equations that we can test and see the results. We have tools like the James Webb telescope, large hadron collider, ect to help solidify theories.
I'm not being flippant, but he does. The message from God is simple. It would probably be helpful to address specific confusions perhaps? Not sure. I do believe the most important parts of the faith are black and white and blatantly obvious, but I have also taken to seeking him and looking to have relationship with him. I stopped treating the Bible as an answer book and take it for what it is meant to be which is one of three pillars. Prayer, Biblical study and Communion with others ALL work together (none by themselves) to foster healthy relationship with God because that's the way he chose to do things and that's how we are designed.
I'll flip this on its ear as a matter of trying to prove a point of "knowledge". I think we all agree that we are part of a hugely vast universe right? Let's be generous and say we know about 5% of the information the universe holds (I think a lot of scientists would agree its probably less than that), but lets go with 5%. All the science and confidence is built squarely on that 5%. All the tools. All the equations. All the theories. All of it. Built on a 5% understanding. What are the chances that there is something out there we haven't discovered yet that will turn a lot (or most) of we "know" on it's ear and invalidate it?
Who are the "we" here?
I'm with you here. I can see where there's a difference in the stories told.
Well, i guess it's the metaphorical parts. Like we discussed my upbringing taught me the Bible as a literal telling of God's word, outside parables. The word of God retold as a metaphor requires interpretation by man in its retelling and then the expectation that the reader will take the correct interpretation themselves. Add in translations of a metaphor into another language and you're relying on both the writer and the reader to get it right yet again. It seems God's word should be clear and concise, but it isn't and that opens the door to man's word altering the intent to suit their needs vs God's true unmistakable word.
Theoretically, all of it could be invalidated, as could Christianity.
Point proven.
This is 100% spot on. Case in point...Christianity goes away immediately if people would have found the body of "Jesus" shortly after all the resurrection events.
Certainly understand all that Joe. And that’s the point. He keeps saying he wants a “conversation”, but there is not conversation happing (unless of course we agree with exactly everything he says). He wants to tell us what he believes he knows. Nothing more. All I’m saying is own that. I’ve have made no attempt, and won’t, at changing his mind, but let’s call this what it is.
Yes, i agree the important parts are black and white, it's the source that i find the gray.
We can go pretty deep here, but this is where my belief system is built. We simply can't know, but what i do know is that the case for scientific explanation is more tangible than faith. If a theory can be proven with equations and repeatable testing I'm more accepting than the metaphorical writings of people thousands of years ago and those can't be tested tangibly. I'm more Brian Greene than Billy Graham when it comes to evidence. Ofcourse we disprove the proven all the time, but it still tends to be a stepping stone in understanding.
this may be semantics, but to me science doesn´t ¨prove¨ things. it can only disprove hypotheses. theories/explanations are supported by evidence and grow stronger, but never proven. /rant
This is correct. Belief/faith are positions that go beyond what the evidence/data requires. Otherwise, they are just facts. It takes faith/belief to say either "there is a God" or "there isn't a God". Those are both positions outside what the evidence/data requires. The only fact driven position we can have around a God's existence is "We don't know" or "We don't have enough information to determine one way or the other". That's agnosticism.
What do you mean when you say the bold? I ask because there are three different avenues we are to use to inquire/pursue God. And they are to be used in conjunction with each other. Ignoring one will make the journey difficult for sure.
"We" is all of us. To go back to the metaphorical nature of Genesis. They're stories meant for specific people at a specific time. This has created confusion within the religion if I'm following the different interpretations offered in this thread. There's the literal take and the metaphorical take. OP seems to follow a different version of the same belief system as you.
You're correct "proven" is the wrong word.
I mean God
I may have covered this better in a different response to you
More problematic, in the context of what is supposed to be allowed on these forums, is that he spams the same opinions over and over, repeatedly starting new threads to do the same spamming. As noted, he isn't, and never has been, interested in genuine conversation. He just wants to proselytize. If someone did the same thing hawking a product, they'd be banned.
Definitely a confusing deity for sure. It's a constant quest to learn. Never stops.
Oh, I think the religious discussions here are much more......respectful?....... than they were 20 years ago (when any topic like this turned into a keyboard bloodbath). I think most of the folks that are posting in these threads nowadays are truly interested in honest discussions. Unfortunately, there are a few pedantic posters who don't seem to want a conversation. I don't know why people keep engaging those few who have zero interest in exchanging ideas and just want to scream louder until everyone is deaf.
