HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE! Read This First Post, THEN Q & A Discussion! ASK QUESTIONS HERE! (1 Viewer)

[Politician Spock]

For anyone reading the first post in this thread, keep in mind the guy who wrote it is happy he voted for Trump. Just sayin'. 

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You voted for the atheist, didn't you?

He sure did.

 

[babydemon90]

Man, y'all are taking some of these passages WAY too literally.  

 

[Paddington]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_bbXRVS5JY

 

[Paddington]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_bbXRVS5JY

 

[Mister CIA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_bbXRVS5JY

Troll, troll, troll your rote, gently down the stream.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

No contradictions, just misunderstandings.  

Bible contradictions with scripture references.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Bible contradictions with scripture references.

rebuttal 1

rebuttal 2

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Politician Spock]

rebuttal 1

rebuttal 2

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Christian apologetics

 

[BobbyLayne]

Christian apologetics

You & Paddington should do lunch.

He'a working on his soul winners merit badge, you're working on your "God disappointed me so I'm an atheist" b i tch insignia. Y'all could help each other achieve your life goals.

 

[tonydead]

You & Paddington should do lunch.

He'a working on his soul winners merit badge, you're working on your "God disappointed me so I'm an atheist" b i tch insignia. Y'all could help each other achieve your life goals.

I see you've earned double points on your holier than thou trophy. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

You & Paddington should do lunch.

He'a working on his soul winners merit badge, you're working on your "God disappointed me so I'm an atheist" b i tch insignia. Y'all could help each other achieve your life goals.

I see you've earned double points on your holier than thou trophy. 

You lost me; explain how what I wrote has to do with self-righteousness?

To expand:

I don't have much tolerance for Paddington, who most closely resembles a bot. Dude has no interest in engaging other humans in a way that is meaningful.

Spock seems like someone who didn't receive enough hugs when he was growing up. Tortured, angry atheist is such a cliché.

Sad!

I wonder how common it is for poor relationships with your earthly father to get in the way of true intimacy with our Heavenly Father? Anecdotally, it seems super common; I run into it all the time working with younger men. 

I mean it affects all of our relationships. Sometimes when you have a distant father it makes it harder to connect at a deep emotional level with your SO, or fear holds you back from even trying.

Conversely, if your earthly fathers was always there when you needed them, or you at least knew they were thinking about you and cared about you even when they couldn't be physically present, that reality of a loving father has a massive influence of your concept of "God the Father."

i don't expect guy's on a football board to open up & be vulnerable, but just kick it around in your head.

I think of God as a provider who is kind, loving and always present. He is for me (pro tip: He is for you as well), His answers are Yes and Amen.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

What's wrong with pointing out that trying to explain & rationalize a 2,000 year old book requires mental gymnastics?

Faith is faith.  Logic & reason don't really apply.  I mean, sure, you can interpret the words any number of different ways that fit with your version of the truth - your faith.  But, in the end, you're never going to be able to convince many of us that they're not just the musings of Bronze Age shepherds.

 

[BobbyLayne]

? morning jam ?

 

[Jayrok]

You lost me; explain how what I wrote has to do with self-righteousness?

To expand:

I don't have much tolerance for Paddington, who most closely resembles a bot. Dude has no interest in engaging other humans in a way that is meaningful.

Spock seems like someone who didn't receive enough hugs when he was growing up. Tortured, angry atheist is such a cliché.

Sad!

I wonder how common it is for poor relationships with your earthly father to get in the way of true intimacy with our Heavenly Father? Anecdotally, it seems super common; I run into it all the time working with younger men. 

I mean it affects all of our relationships. Sometimes when you have a distant father it makes it harder to connect at a deep emotional level with your SO, or fear holds you back from even trying.

Conversely, if your earthly fathers was always there when you needed them, or you at least knew they were thinking about you and cared about you even when they couldn't be physically present, that reality of a loving father has a massive influence of your concept of "God the Father."

i don't expect guy's on a football board to open up & be vulnerable, but just kick it around in your head.

I think of God as a provider who is kind, loving and always present. He is for me (pro tip: He is for you as well), His answers are Yes and Amen.

So you have come to the conclusion that PSpock has (or had growing up) a bad relationship with his dad and that is why he lost his faith?  How presumptive of you.  

 

[BobbyLayne]

So you have come to the conclusion that PSpock has (or had growing up) a bad relationship with his dad and that is why he lost his faith?  How presumptive of you.  

? 

Such a brave man to defend your friends honor.



Or I might just be tweaking him. Don't know anthing about him - same goes for all but 15-20 FBGs I know peripherally IRL.

 

[BobbyLayne]

To be clear, my comments were general, not directed toward or about PS. That's why there was an extra line inserted before the diatribe, to indicate it was a new but tangentially related topic. Would have been less clumsy yo make it a separate post. My apologies.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I don't know where I'm going but I'm chasing after You

 

[BobbyLayne]

I've heard a thousand stories of what they think you're like

 

[CowboysFromHell]

? morning jam ?

I don't know where I'm going but I'm chasing after You

I've heard a thousand stories of what they think you're like

Paddington - is that you?

 

[matuski]

rebuttal 1

rebuttal 2

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Yikes.  Did you watch these yourself?

NO ITS BECAUSE OF ALL HIS GLORY THAT MOSES COULDNT SEE HIM, HE WASNT IN HIS GLORY WHEN THE OTHER HUMANS SAW HIM!

 

[matuski]

true intimacy with our Heavenly Father?

what

 

[Jayrok]

? 

Such a brave man to defend your friends honor.

Defend his honor?  I thought you were just pigeon-holing him into your own conclusions about him without getting to know him.  PS doesn't need anyone to defend him.  

What's in your coffee this morning?  

 

[matuski]

I think of God as a provider who is kind, loving and always present. He is for me (pro tip: He is for you as well), His answers are Yes and Amen.

You think of God as? Now we are getting somewhere when you start referring to your imagination to represent your god to us.

Baby steps.

 

[tonydead]

You lost me; explain how what I wrote has to do with self-righteousness?

To expand:

I don't have much tolerance for Paddington, who most closely resembles a bot. Dude has no interest in engaging other humans in a way that is meaningful.

Spock seems like someone who didn't receive enough hugs when he was growing up. Tortured, angry atheist is such a cliché.

Sad!

I wonder how common it is for poor relationships with your earthly father to get in the way of true intimacy with our Heavenly Father? Anecdotally, it seems super common; I run into it all the time working with younger men. 

I mean it affects all of our relationships. Sometimes when you have a distant father it makes it harder to connect at a deep emotional level with your SO, or fear holds you back from even trying.

Conversely, if your earthly fathers was always there when you needed them, or you at least knew they were thinking about you and cared about you even when they couldn't be physically present, that reality of a loving father has a massive influence of your concept of "God the Father."

i don't expect guy's on a football board to open up & be vulnerable, but just kick it around in your head.

I think of God as a provider who is kind, loving and always present. He is for me (pro tip: He is for you as well), His answers are Yes and Amen.

Seriously?  The guy who feels the need to go around and tell atheists that God loves them has to ask why someone might think he's self righteous?  

And what's with all that creepy father stuff?  

 

[BobbyLayne]

rebuttal 1

rebuttal 2

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Yikes.  Did you watch these yourself?

NO ITS BECAUSE OF ALL HIS GLORY THAT MOSES COULDNT SEE HIM, HE WASNT IN HIS GLORY WHEN THE OTHER HUMANS SAW HIM!

Yep.

"n Genesis 32:30, Jacob saw God appearing as a man; he did not truly see God. Samson’s parents were terrified when they realized they had seen God (Judges 13:22), but they had only seen Him appearing as an angel. Jesus was God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14) so when people saw Him, they were seeing God. So, yes, God can be “seen” and many people have “seen” God. At the same time, no one has ever seen God revealed in all His glory."



In none of the instances is God appearing in the fullness of His glory. (deeper dive: God's glory is reflected throughout creation, in the heavens, through music, in anything that is beautiful...pretty deep rabbit hole.)

God appeared to Moses "face-to-face". Does God really have a front, back, side, face? God is Spirit. So there are two explanations here: it's a Christophany - the pre-incarnate Jesus - or it's an anthropomorphism, a metaphor. I lean toward the latte but don't have an issue with the former interpretation.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I think of God as a provider who is kind, loving and always present. He is for me (pro tip: He is for you as well), His answers are Yes and Amen.

You think of God as? Now we are getting somewhere when you start referring to your imagination to represent your god to us.

Baby steps.

Wow, what a shocker to see you being condenscending. The FFA has never seen that side of you.

 

[BobbyLayne]

You lost me; explain how what I wrote has to do with self-righteousness?

To expand:

I don't have much tolerance for Paddington, who most closely resembles a bot. Dude has no interest in engaging other humans in a way that is meaningful.

Spock seems like someone who didn't receive enough hugs when he was growing up. Tortured, angry atheist is such a cliché.

Sad!

I wonder how common it is for poor relationships with your earthly father to get in the way of true intimacy with our Heavenly Father? Anecdotally, it seems super common; I run into it all the time working with younger men. 

I mean it affects all of our relationships. Sometimes when you have a distant father it makes it harder to connect at a deep emotional level with your SO, or fear holds you back from even trying.

Conversely, if your earthly fathers was always there when you needed them, or you at least knew they were thinking about you and cared about you even when they couldn't be physically present, that reality of a loving father has a massive influence of your concept of "God the Father."

i don't expect guy's on a football board to open up & be vulnerable, but just kick it around in your head.

I think of God as a provider who is kind, loving and always present. He is for me (pro tip: He is for you as well), His answers are Yes and Amen.

Seriously?  The guy who feels the need to go around and tell atheists that God loves them has to ask why someone might think he's self righteous?  

And what's with all that creepy father stuff?  

Let me know if you need help with the ignore function.

 

[tonydead]

To be clear, my comments were general, not directed toward or about PS. That's why there was an extra line inserted before the diatribe, to indicate it was a new but tangentially related topic. Would have been less clumsy yo make it a separate post. My apologies.

I think weird unsolicited comments like that says more about you that any random internet people whom you've admitted you know nothing about. Creepy dude. 

 

[matuski]

Yep.

"n Genesis 32:30, Jacob saw God appearing as a man; he did not truly see God. Samson’s parents were terrified when they realized they had seen God (Judges 13:22), but they had only seen Him appearing as an angel. Jesus was God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14) so when people saw Him, they were seeing God. So, yes, God can be “seen” and many people have “seen” God. At the same time, no one has ever seen God revealed in all His glory."



In none of the instances is God appearing in the fullness of His glory. (deeper dive: God's glory is reflected throughout creation, in the heavens, through music, in anything that is beautiful...pretty deep rabbit hole.)

God appeared to Moses "face-to-face". Does God really have a front, back, side, face? God is Spirit. So there are two explanations here: it's a Christophany - the pre-incarnate Jesus - or it's an anthropomorphism, a metaphor. I lean toward the latte but don't have an issue with the former interpretation.

All of the explanation for this comes from interpretation.  Not from your book or God.

The contradiction from your book and god remain.  Which as Jayrok pointed out isn't surprising when considering the context.

 

[BobbyLayne]

? 

Such a brave man to defend your friends honor.

Defend his honor?  I thought you were just pigeon-holing him into your own conclusions about him without getting to know him.  PS doesn't need anyone to defend him.  

What's in your coffee this morning?  

As I mentioned upthread, should have made it a separate post to be clear it wasn't directed at Paddington or Politician Spock.

But it is a reality our life experience - and specifically our first relationships within the nuclear family - has a tremendous influence on our world view. 

NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE SPECIFIC but there's no question a poor relationship with your earthly father is going to hamper / hinder your ability to relate to God as a loving Father figure. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

To be clear, my comments were general, not directed toward or about PS. That's why there was an extra line inserted before the diatribe, to indicate it was a new but tangentially related topic. Would have been less clumsy yo make it a separate post. My apologies.

I think weird unsolicited comments like that says more about you that any random internet people whom you've admitted you know nothing about. Creepy dude. 

?

Aint you a peach.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yep.

"n Genesis 32:30, Jacob saw God appearing as a man; he did not truly see God. Samson’s parents were terrified when they realized they had seen God (Judges 13:22), but they had only seen Him appearing as an angel. Jesus was God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14) so when people saw Him, they were seeing God. So, yes, God can be “seen” and many people have “seen” God. At the same time, no one has ever seen God revealed in all His glory."



In none of the instances is God appearing in the fullness of His glory. (deeper dive: God's glory is reflected throughout creation, in the heavens, through music, in anything that is beautiful...pretty deep rabbit hole.)

God appeared to Moses "face-to-face". Does God really have a front, back, side, face? God is Spirit. So there are two explanations here: it's a Christophany - the pre-incarnate Jesus - or it's an anthropomorphism, a metaphor. I lean toward the latte but don't have an issue with the former interpretation.

All of the explanation for this comes from interpretation.  Not from your book or God.

The contradiction from your book and god remain.

OK ?? 

 

[matuski]

Wow, what a shocker to see you being condenscending. The FFA has never seen that side of you.

We have also seen you go this route when challenged before.

 

[matuski]

OK ?? 

There we go.

Common ground. :highfive:

 

[BobbyLayne]

true intimacy with our Heavenly Father?

what

It is a relationship between man & the living God. It's foolishness to you, it's the power of God to those who believe. 

I think we're both good with that, right?

For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18

 

[BobbyLayne]

OK ?? 

There we go.

Common ground. :highfive:

I gave an interpretation, you rejected it. We're good.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Wow, what a shocker to see you being condenscending. The FFA has never seen that side of you.

We have also seen you go this route when challenged before.

Perfectly willing to engage with you, but if you are disrespectful, you'll get it in return. Not gonna let you walk over me because you have a different opinion.

 

[matuski]

It is a relationship between man & the living God. It's foolishness to you, it's the power of God to those who believe. 

I think we're both good with that, right?

For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18

You forget that when you try the "you wouldn't understand" defense that most of us at one time indeed walked in your shoes.  We understand the feeling/belief, we don't understand the defense of it in light of reason and evidenced based debate.

You can't describe it in a way that doesn't sound foolish (your own words) because it isn't there to describe. 

 

[matuski]

Perfectly willing to engage with you, but if you are disrespectful, you'll get it in return. Not gonna let you walk over me because you have a different opinion.

You are reacting to us all in the same manner.  Perhaps we aren't the issue.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Which as Jayrok pointed out isn't surprising when considering the context.

Just quoting the edit:

context is everything when you're trying to interpret the Bible. Intended audience, who it was written by, who it applies to, st al. If you read an Old Testament promise written to the Israelites under the Old Covenant (the law & system of temple sacrifices), does that apply today to New Covenant (nothing but the blood of Jesus) believers?

 

[BobbyLayne]

It is a relationship between man & the living God. It's foolishness to you, it's the power of God to those who believe. 

I think we're both good with that, right?

For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:18

You forget that when you try the "you wouldn't understand" defense that most of us at one time indeed walked in your shoes.  We understand the feeling/belief, we don't understand the defense of it in light of reason and evidenced based debate.

You can't describe it in a way that doesn't sound foolish (your own words) because it isn't there to describe. 

It is experiential. Our star breather, Creator God never stops creating. He make things new. He creates new hearts, and in alignment with his Word, brings revelation.

Anyway, I don't think we too far apart here. You think I'm foolish and that's how I expect you to view things. Because it doesn't fit inside your weltanschauung, nothing for you to consider. Your knowledge is complete in this area. I'm on a path to discovery. I'm 54, but I hope I never stop learning.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Perfectly willing to engage with you, but if you are disrespectful, you'll get it in return. Not gonna let you walk over me because you have a different opinion.

You are reacting to us all in the same manner.  Perhaps we aren't the issue.

You poor thing.



Hope you're able to get through the day.

 

[Jayrok]

As I mentioned upthread, should have made it a separate post to be clear it wasn't directed at Paddington or Politician Spock.

But it is a reality our life experience - and specifically our first relationships within the nuclear family - has a tremendous influence on our world view. 

NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE SPECIFIC but there's no question a poor relationship with your earthly father is going to hamper / hinder your ability to relate to God as a loving Father figure. 

Roger that.  Thanks.

 

[matuski]

Just quoting the edit:

context is everything when you're trying to interpret the Bible. Intended audience, who it was written by, who it applies to, st al. If you read an Old Testament promise written to the Israelites under the Old Covenant (the law & system of temple sacrifices), does that apply today to New Covenant (nothing but the blood of Jesus) believers?

Context is why you and the next guy (both professing the same god) can hold entirely different views on what the Bible says.

 

[dutch]

Lets eat Grandpa

Lets eat, Grandpa

 

[matuski]

It is experiential. Our star breather, Creator God never stops creating. He make things new. He creates new hearts, and in alignment with his Word, brings revelation.

Anyway, I don't think we too far apart here. You think I'm foolish and that's how I expect you to view things. Because it doesn't fit inside your weltanschauung, nothing for you to consider. Your knowledge is complete in this area. I'm on a path to discovery. I'm 54, but I hope I never stop learning.

Foolish was your own wording, not mine,

I have never claimed any knowledge of invisible STAR BREATHING (seriously?) beings nor regarding what happens after we die.  None whatsoever... that claim of expertise lies on your end.

If indeed I were to say you were foolish, your belief would wouldn't be where I would start. 

 

[tonydead]

Let me know if you need help with the ignore function.

And miss the train wreck?  No way, not a chance.

 

[tonydead]

You can't describe it in a way that doesn't sound foolish 

Our star breather........

 

[tonydead]

You poor thing.



Hope you're able to get through the day.

Another point for the holier than thou trophy!  Yippy!