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How would you rate the players tonight? (1 Viewer)

Big

Footballguy
I know there are threads about each guy, but how would you rate the skill guys in tonights game based on what you think they will do in the pros FF wise. Meaning total over VBD baseline (so we can compare across positions) for their career?Heres what I am thinking:#1 Vince Young: He really has it all, he is like Vick with an accurate arm. A quicker McNabb who doesnt fold under pressure. Deadly.#2 Reggie Bush: Really good, yadda yadda.#3 Lindell White: His burst was suprising to me, couple that with the size and hes a hard runner, taylored to NFL game. Not as far behind Bush as you might think....Matt Lienart: I think he is the next Ryan Leaf, which means the Saints will probably pick him. He panics under pressure. After the game, he sounded like a whiny middle school boy. He threw Reggie Bus under the bus (fumble in 1st half by Bush cost us), he threw his defense under the bus (we just couldn't stop them), he threw Lindell White under the bus (4th and 2, our game - we just couldnt convert), then proceeds to say they are still better, that they lost Texas didnt win, etc. NO class and little maturity.

 

EBF

Footballguy
As pro prospects? 1. Bush2. White3. Jarrett4. Leinart5. YoungAll will be top 15 picks, IMO (Jarrett will have to wait until 2007).

 

EBF

Footballguy
After the game, he sounded like a whiny middle school boy. He threw Reggie Bus under the bus (fumble in 1st half by Bush cost us), he threw his defense under the bus (we just couldn't stop them), he threw Lindell White under the bus (4th and 2, our game - we just couldnt convert), then proceeds to say they are still better,
I'd agree with you, except I think he was pretty much right on all of those points.
 

Big

Footballguy
...good call on Jarrett, was thinking "big 4" hype wise. but yong 5th? really? news flash, he can throw too, not just run.

 

Big

Footballguy
he was right ebf, but those are his teammates. didnt hear him talk about his pick at the goalline?

 

Drifter

Footballguy
After the game, he sounded like a whiny middle school boy.  He threw Reggie Bus under the bus (fumble in 1st half by Bush cost us), he threw his defense under the bus (we just couldn't stop them), he threw Lindell White under the bus (4th and 2, our game - we just couldnt convert), then proceeds to say they are still better,
I'd agree with you, except I think he was pretty much right on all of those points.
Maybe, but what kind of leadership and character is that displaying?
 

Big

Footballguy
...and he was NOT right saying they are better. I have pretty equal hatred for Texas and USC, but stop the southern california spin. They got beat. They are NOT better. That is the same entitlement persona that incorrectly talks about 3peats.

 

EBF

Footballguy
...good call on Jarrett, was thinking "big 4" hype wise. but yong 5th? really? news flash, he can throw too, not just run.
I've addressed this in other threads tonight. While he had a great game and showed good poise/accuracy, the type of passing that he was asked to do tonight is not the same as the type of passing that NFL QBs do. Young is a dominant college football player and an incredible runner, but I think strong doubts about whether or not his game translates to the NFL are warranted.

As I've said, I see him as a taller Vick with funkier mechanics. People love to bash Vick, but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college. He hasn't figured out the NFL passing game. That doesn't mean Young won't, but right now he's unproven. That's why he ranks fifth on this list of elite prospects.

 

EBF

Footballguy
After the game, he sounded like a whiny middle school boy.  He threw Reggie Bus under the bus (fumble in 1st half by Bush cost us), he threw his defense under the bus (we just couldn't stop them), he threw Lindell White under the bus (4th and 2, our game - we just couldnt convert), then proceeds to say they are still better,
I'd agree with you, except I think he was pretty much right on all of those points.
Maybe, but what kind of leadership and character is that displaying?
Some might say honesty is a virtue. A mistake is a mistake. The only thing that strikes me as stupid about his comments is that he apparently made no mention of his bonehead INT.
 

Big

Footballguy
but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college.

Vick didnt make those kinds of throws. He didnt throw for 2,500 yards in a season while rarely playing in the 4th quarter of a game all year.

Leinart was the one making 3 yard FB dumpoffs that were going for 20, 40, etc.

Young was throwing the ball downfield.

 

EBF

Footballguy
but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college.

Vick didnt make those kinds of throws. He didnt throw for 2,500 yards in a season while rarely playing in the 4th quarter of a game all year.
What kind of throws? Did Young even complete a pass over 20 yards tonight? From what I saw, it was mostly dump offs to the TE and short passes to the WRs. Vick made plenty of throws like that back in college.
 

Drifter

Footballguy
After the game, he sounded like a whiny middle school boy.  He threw Reggie Bus under the bus (fumble in 1st half by Bush cost us), he threw his defense under the bus (we just couldn't stop them), he threw Lindell White under the bus (4th and 2, our game - we just couldnt convert), then proceeds to say they are still better,
I'd agree with you, except I think he was pretty much right on all of those points.
Maybe, but what kind of leadership and character is that displaying?
Some might say honesty is a virtue. A mistake is a mistake. The only thing that strikes me as stupid about his comments is that he apparently made no mention of his bonehead INT.
Honesty is saying "we made mistakes", not being specific about those mistakes and throwing your teamates under the bus.
 

Big

Footballguy
I will agree that he isnt asked to throw the 20 yard out. He did use that TE as a valve all night (10 catches?) but I thought he threw a slew of 15-20 yard passes downfield to his WR's.I guess we will have to wait and see. I would start a Lienart vs. Young sig bet, but I dont know if that long term a bet is warranted... :D

 

TLEF316

Footballguy
i really do not want matt leinert to be a new york jet. I realize he's emotional right now after a loss, so ill give hin a pass for his comments. However, something about him doesnt seem right. I think he's become a little soft and full of himself after 3 years of LA night life, having his choice of co-eds and having every sports caster on the planet up his ###. Reggie Bush is being overhyped, but he's still a stud in the making. I still like the marshall faulk comparisons. I still think he's the number 1 prospect. White obviously looked great/ He's got burst, and although he benefits from USC's great line, he's obviously an NFL RB. Good balance, stregnth and a mose for the endzone. He'll be a workhorse in the right offense.Vince Young played an amazing game, and i think he can be an NFL QB. Can he make all the NFL throws? im not totally sure. There is a big diference between throwing 10 yard slants and throwing 20 yd out patterns against NFL defenses. The mechanics have to change, but he's got the arm stregnth and all the measurables. I dont see why he cant be as good as, if not better than McNabb.

 
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Big

Footballguy
Honesty is saying "we made mistakes", not being specific about those mistakes and throwing your teamates under the bus.

He did finally get non specific when he said something like ~we had the ball down there 5 times in teh first half and should have had 35 popints but we didnt convert.

Of course that can be him being vague for his teammates or vague about his own mistakes, I think the later since he already was pretty specific about the others.

Related topic: lindell White, give me an equivalent in the NFL. Is he as quick as Larry Johnson? Maybe Curtis Martin?

 

EBF

Footballguy
I will agree that he isnt asked to throw the 20 yard out. He did use that TE as a valve all night (10 catches?) but I thought he threw a slew of 15-20 yard passes downfield to his WR's.

I guess we will have to wait and see. I would start a Lienart vs. Young sig bet, but I dont know if that long term a bet is warranted... :D
I checked the box score on Yahoo and it looks like Young only had two completions of 20+ yards, one for 23 and one for 26. He still played a great game, but I think the hype train is getting out of control.
 

Drifter

Footballguy
but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college.

Vick didnt make those kinds of throws.  He didnt throw for 2,500 yards in a season while rarely playing in the 4th quarter of a game all year.
What kind of throws? Did Young even complete a pass over 20 yards tonight? From what I saw, it was mostly dump offs to the TE and short passes to the WRs. Vick made plenty of throws like that back in college.
75% comp% for 267 yards. Two receivers had longs of 23 and 26 and averages of 13.2 and 17.3

 

EBF

Footballguy
but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college.

Vick didnt make those kinds of throws.  He didnt throw for 2,500 yards in a season while rarely playing in the 4th quarter of a game all year.
What kind of throws? Did Young even complete a pass over 20 yards tonight? From what I saw, it was mostly dump offs to the TE and short passes to the WRs. Vick made plenty of throws like that back in college.
75% comp% for 267 yards. Two receivers had longs of 23 and 26 and averages of 13.2 and 17.3
Yep. He had a solid passing game, but it did nothing to answer the questions that people have about him. Everyone knew he can run and everyone knew he can run the Texas offense. What people want to know is whether he can drop back, scan the field, go through his progressions, and find the open target. He showed some flashes of brilliance tonight, but the Texas scheme doesn't give a great indication of whether or not he can be a pro passer because it's not a pro-style offense. That's all I'm really saying.
 

Big

Footballguy
Agreed on all counts TLEF316. Thats why I threw out the Leaf card. He seems like a spoiled kid.Understood about VY and the NFL throws. BUt guys who you worry about with that are the Danny Weurfells of the world that you know will never be strong armed enough. He is strong enough to make the NFL throws, and he is accurate, which is where to me he blows away Vick.Dont get me wrong, I play FF and understand the importance of RB so I take Bush and Lindell White over VY any rookie draft. But based on my original question, I still think VY will outproduce each when looking VBD career-wise (points over worst starter).

 

Drifter

Footballguy
Young's season #s:2005 182 285 2769 63.9 9.72 75 26 10 13 168.56 Not too shabby. 64% completion, 26TDs to 10 INTs, sacked 11 timesLeinart's are only slightly better 65%, 27 TDs, 11 INTs, sacked 14 times.Of course Young also had 900 yds rushing and 9 TDs (before tonight)

 
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Drifter

Footballguy
but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college.

Vick didnt make those kinds of throws.  He didnt throw for 2,500 yards in a season while rarely playing in the 4th quarter of a game all year.
What kind of throws? Did Young even complete a pass over 20 yards tonight? From what I saw, it was mostly dump offs to the TE and short passes to the WRs. Vick made plenty of throws like that back in college.
75% comp% for 267 yards. Two receivers had longs of 23 and 26 and averages of 13.2 and 17.3
Yep. He had a solid passing game, but it did nothing to answer the questions that people have about him. Everyone knew he can run and everyone knew he can run the Texas offense. What people want to know is whether he can drop back, scan the field, go through his progressions, and find the open target. He showed some flashes of brilliance tonight, but the Texas scheme doesn't give a great indication of whether or not he can be a pro passer because it's not a pro-style offense. That's all I'm really saying.
I think the poise and maturity he showed tonight will go a long way for his draft day value.
 

EBF

Footballguy
but they forget that he was also a dominant force in college.

Vick didnt make those kinds of throws.  He didnt throw for 2,500 yards in a season while rarely playing in the 4th quarter of a game all year.
What kind of throws? Did Young even complete a pass over 20 yards tonight? From what I saw, it was mostly dump offs to the TE and short passes to the WRs. Vick made plenty of throws like that back in college.
75% comp% for 267 yards. Two receivers had longs of 23 and 26 and averages of 13.2 and 17.3
Yep. He had a solid passing game, but it did nothing to answer the questions that people have about him. Everyone knew he can run and everyone knew he can run the Texas offense. What people want to know is whether he can drop back, scan the field, go through his progressions, and find the open target. He showed some flashes of brilliance tonight, but the Texas scheme doesn't give a great indication of whether or not he can be a pro passer because it's not a pro-style offense. That's all I'm really saying.
I think the poise and maturity he showed tonight will go a long way for his draft day value.
I absolutely agree. I think he cemented himself a spot in the top three. That doesn't mean he showed that he can be an NFL passer. To be clear, I'm not a Young hater. I'm just not ready to declare him the next great NFL QB on the basis on one game in which he didn't do anything that we didn't already know he could do. If he starts making reads and hitting 30-50 yard throws in the preseason, then I'll get excited. Right now I still see him as a project who could either become a huge star or become the butt of future draft jokes.

 

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