How's the Packer decision to go with Rodgers looking now? (2 Viewers)

[sho nuff]

Packers

2008: 5-9

2007: 13-3

Jets

2008: 9-5

2007: 4-12

Nuff said (pardon the pun)

Hmmm. Didn't the Jets add a few players too?

No doubt. Going from these extremes in wins/losses makes a great case that Favre is a winner and Rodgers isn't. I'm pretty sure the Jets upgraded the most important position in football with Favre, remember they weren't sure if they should roll with Kellen Clemens. I don't think the Jets would be 9-5 with Kellen Clemens, how about giving Favre the credit he deserves.

Ok.Favre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kellen Clemens

Happy now?

 

[ROCKET]

I have no dog in this fight but I'd take Rodgers over Favre in a heartbeat strictly based on this years performance. The Packers did the right thing and Favre's chilidsh bs gave them no other option. The Packers demise isn't because of Rodgers and they'd still be out of the playoffs with Favre behind center. They also would be dealing with his retirement nonsense for another year and would be wondering if Rodgers could get the job done. Now they have a draft pick, a capable qb and are rid of the headaches from Favre that inevitably would be coming. They have issues and have made bad decisions but the Favre move wasn't one of them. Anyone looking to bash the Packers should find another horse to hitch their wagon to.

 

[sho nuff]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...

Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...

Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.

4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.

Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

 

[Keith Lewis]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

 

[sho nuff]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

Worst you have ever seen in your life? I don't think you have watched much football just this year much less ever if you think that is true.Sure...his decision making has been bad at times. But is there ever an INT that is not at a horrible time?

 

[ScottyFargo]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

Worst you have ever seen in your life? I don't think you have watched much football just this year much less ever if you think that is true.Sure...his decision making has been bad at times. But is there ever an INT that is not at a horrible time?

Turnovers are bad, but turnovers on the last drive of the game are pretty heartwrenching. Again, 7 times this season he's had a chance to win, and he didn't do it. So the team has 9 losses. Defense is bad? That stinks. Unfortunately for that argument, there are seven examples of Rodgers' failing to earn his $$$ this season, and thus they have a 5-9 record. If you enjoy it, I enjoy it.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Have we discussed exactly how much worse Favre is this year? Because, while I guess he could still be a Pro Bowl (lol) QB in the AFC, you have to say he's worse vs. 2007, and not just statistically. He has a better RB and line than he did last year, and still decent WRs. But has he made his team much better than... Kerry Collins? Jeff Garcia? Ahem, Chad Pennington?

 

[sho nuff]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

Worst you have ever seen in your life? I don't think you have watched much football just this year much less ever if you think that is true.Sure...his decision making has been bad at times. But is there ever an INT that is not at a horrible time?

Turnovers are bad, but turnovers on the last drive of the game are pretty heartwrenching. Again, 7 times this season he's had a chance to win, and he didn't do it. So the team has 9 losses. Defense is bad? That stinks. Unfortunately for that argument, there are seven examples of Rodgers' failing to earn his $$$ this season, and thus they have a 5-9 record. If you enjoy it, I enjoy it.

Sure they are heartwrenching when trying to come back....I think a bit worse when you are up and you turn it over leading to the other team getting a chance and actually beating you.Unfortunately for your argument...the defense could have prevented a few of those chances for being needed. Twice in the last 3 weeks the offense (with Rodgers) led late drives to take the lead.I will give you the minny game (and blame part of that on McCarthy opting for 2 runs there when they got good field position and settling for the long FG)...and Houston...you cannot just say he failed...because does anyone have faith that if they had not taken the penalty or sack and got the FG to go ahead...that the defense would have held? Sure...it was a failure by him and the offense there too.Carolina he had just taken the lead with under 2 mintues left. Yes, they got the ball back with 1:30 and they screwed that up...but should have really ever come to that?TENN...like the Houston game...they screwed that up...had the ball near midfield and could not move any further. Defense again did nothing to stop TN after that though...in that one though, they could have run the clock more and got the FG with nearly nothing left to win.Tampa...yes, the late INT...not even sure thought that he should have even been on the field for that one. That was the game he got hurt but came back in for that drive as they had no confidence in Flynn there. Yes...its on Rodgers for throwing it...this is also agaisnt TT for not having a vet backup.

 

[zDragon]

Do i need to put it in 100 times for you to understand my only point is the defense is not as bad as people want to make it out to be?You once again misstate my position. Just because I'm pointing out what many do not like to hear does not mean I'm blaming the offense only.Your article was not a very good one and I'd take Football Outsiders information over that any day. I also pointed out he was not correct on all accounts.You once again do not understand my statement. It is there so you do not misstate what i'm saying and your still doing it. My one and only point is ....THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.

You can post it as much as you want...it won't make it true.I did not misstate your position. I told you what it appears you say by your consistent refusal to put anything on the defense and your defending their play anytime someone criticizes it.I have given criticism to the offense...especially the last 2 games. But you act as if Im saying its all the defense. You are, in fact, doing exactly what you claim I am doing about you.Fantasy Outsiders info is great data for sure. The article I posted was simply posted as it gave some good information about how last year's defense would close some games out. This years is simply not doing that as well.I understand your statement. I have simply posted what it looks like by the way you deflect anything about the defense and just talk about the offense.And the defense is much worse than last year.

Once a you twist my point and ignore what I have bolded and repeated. I have defended the defense of course. Why wouldn't I that's the point. I do not believe they are MUCH WORSE than they were last year. I've admitted they are not as good just not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Yet you still say I only blame the offense.There I said it again. You keep saying the defense isn't closing out the games. That seems like your putting on the Defense to me. My point was the offense had a long time to close the game out but they kept putting up threes and not sevens. Sure in the end the blame goes on both but that's not the point I have been defending. So realize it and I'll quit bolding it.My one and only point is ....THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR

I have not twisted what you wrote. I am talking about your exact words and actions in these threads.And this thread is specifically about the decision to go with Rodgers in the first place. Your first statement on that was QB play has been far worse and not the defense (or something to that effect).Why wouldn't you defend this defense? Because they simply are not that good or playing that good.I don't still say you only blame the offense. I say you defend any criticism of the defense and mostly just talk about the offense. That early on you did just blame the offense and only recently added that little tag line. And that tag line is about the only time you even mention the defense other than to defend them.Yes, I keep saying the defense has not closed out games.Or did I just imagine 2 game winning TD drives coming with under 2 minutes left in the last 3 weeks? After the offense had put the team ahead late.Could the offense have done more to get a TD rather than a FG? Yes. Does that excuse the defense from giving up late TD drives? Not in the least.I am not putting it all on the defense at all...and have said that so many times yet you keep twisting it (funny given your accusation of me doing that to you).I specifically mentioned several times that they cannot just keep settling for FGs...so how is that me putting it all on the defense.Its not all on them at all. There are many factors to this (which has been my point since you entered this thread).

Why are you still going on about my tag line? I put it there so you would understand my point which you did not.I stated the offense has dropped in more statistical areas than the defense. Offense Drive StatsCategory Number (2008,2007)Overall (11th,4th)Yds/drive 29.53 (14th,6th)Pts/Drive 2.00 (13th,5th)Tds/Drive .221 (13th,6th) Drive Success Rate .681 (14th,10th)I also stated that Rodgers lacks experience but should improve over time. I have stated that Rodgers was the right decision. So just because I point out what the underlying numbers really mean does not mean I'm blaming only the offense which you still do not understand.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

ppg and stuff is real boring guys

 

[sho nuff]

Do i need to put it in 100 times for you to understand my only point is the defense is not as bad as people want to make it out to be?You once again misstate my position. Just because I'm pointing out what many do not like to hear does not mean I'm blaming the offense only.Your article was not a very good one and I'd take Football Outsiders information over that any day. I also pointed out he was not correct on all accounts.You once again do not understand my statement. It is there so you do not misstate what i'm saying and your still doing it. My one and only point is ....THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.

You can post it as much as you want...it won't make it true.I did not misstate your position. I told you what it appears you say by your consistent refusal to put anything on the defense and your defending their play anytime someone criticizes it.I have given criticism to the offense...especially the last 2 games. But you act as if Im saying its all the defense. You are, in fact, doing exactly what you claim I am doing about you.Fantasy Outsiders info is great data for sure. The article I posted was simply posted as it gave some good information about how last year's defense would close some games out. This years is simply not doing that as well.I understand your statement. I have simply posted what it looks like by the way you deflect anything about the defense and just talk about the offense.And the defense is much worse than last year.

Once a you twist my point and ignore what I have bolded and repeated. I have defended the defense of course. Why wouldn't I that's the point. I do not believe they are MUCH WORSE than they were last year. I've admitted they are not as good just not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Yet you still say I only blame the offense.There I said it again. You keep saying the defense isn't closing out the games. That seems like your putting on the Defense to me. My point was the offense had a long time to close the game out but they kept putting up threes and not sevens. Sure in the end the blame goes on both but that's not the point I have been defending. So realize it and I'll quit bolding it.My one and only point is ....THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.I AM NOT ENTIRELY BLAMING THE OFFENSE BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS NOT MUCH WORSE THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR

I have not twisted what you wrote. I am talking about your exact words and actions in these threads.And this thread is specifically about the decision to go with Rodgers in the first place. Your first statement on that was QB play has been far worse and not the defense (or something to that effect).Why wouldn't you defend this defense? Because they simply are not that good or playing that good.I don't still say you only blame the offense. I say you defend any criticism of the defense and mostly just talk about the offense. That early on you did just blame the offense and only recently added that little tag line. And that tag line is about the only time you even mention the defense other than to defend them.Yes, I keep saying the defense has not closed out games.Or did I just imagine 2 game winning TD drives coming with under 2 minutes left in the last 3 weeks? After the offense had put the team ahead late.Could the offense have done more to get a TD rather than a FG? Yes. Does that excuse the defense from giving up late TD drives? Not in the least.I am not putting it all on the defense at all...and have said that so many times yet you keep twisting it (funny given your accusation of me doing that to you).I specifically mentioned several times that they cannot just keep settling for FGs...so how is that me putting it all on the defense.Its not all on them at all. There are many factors to this (which has been my point since you entered this thread).

Why are you still going on about my tag line? I put it there so you would understand my point which you did not.I stated the offense has dropped in more statistical areas than the defense. Offense Drive StatsCategory Number (2008,2007)Overall (11th,4th)Yds/drive 29.53 (14th,6th)Pts/Drive 2.00 (13th,5th)Tds/Drive .221 (13th,6th) Drive Success Rate .681 (14th,10th)I also stated that Rodgers lacks experience but should improve over time. I have stated that Rodgers was the right decision. So just because I point out what the underlying numbers really mean does not mean I'm blaming only the offense which you still do not understand.

Dropping in more statistical categories means they are worse this year vs the defense being worse?If you have stated that Rodgers was the right decision...why are you still arguing in this thread?You pointed out the underlying numbers 2 weeks after you claimed that QB play was the bigger dropoff and not the defense.You only starting point out those numbers after someone else showed you that website and you liked what you saw.You admit to not being a Packer fan, Im wondering how much of each game you do watch...but even so, most that have watched this entire season can see the differences in how the defense was this year and last.And we also see the offense is less dynamic all around right now. (and again, some of that dropoff was expected with a 1st time starter at QB).But QB play is still not the biggest dropoff on this team. The defense is still the bigger dropoff from 2007 to 2008.

 

[parasaurolophus]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

i dont think his pocket awareness is that bad. Definitely needs some work, but not awful.He also needs to work on getting the play called quicker and getting things set up. I wonder if he is even really being told about these things right now. I have an image in my head of TT and MM just babying the hell out of this guy. People get so caught up in the Rodgers vs Favre skill wise evaluation this year which is almost impossible to do. The really unfair thing to Rodgers in all of this is so much of it is not his fault directly and was completely out of his control.Rodgers is a first year guy. I dont think that is a big excuse for performance. He has had enough time to watch and learn and practice. Where I do cut him a lot of slack is the fact that a first year guy doesnt have the clout yet to stand up to his coaches and other veterans. His coaches screw him with bad play calling and he can do nothing but grin and bear it. His GM provided him NO veteran QB support. The value of this in game can be quite valuable. If you are coming to the sidelines during a timeout to talk about what you are seeing, would you rather talk to Mccarthy or a guy like Trent Dilfer? He has very few guys to lean on. He has handled it all very well. Always puts it on himself. It is starting to wear on him though, you can see it on the field. The big difference here is Rodgers needs some help. He isnt getting it. He has no control over getting it. He is doing great with what he is being given.Everything would have been different with Favre. And I will say it again. There is no way anybody convinces me that this team that went 13-3 doesnt make the playoffs with Favre under center in this crappy division. Instead we are staring 5-11 right in the face.

 

[sho nuff]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

i dont think his pocket awareness is that bad. Definitely needs some work, but not awful.He also needs to work on getting the play called quicker and getting things set up. I wonder if he is even really being told about these things right now. I have an image in my head of TT and MM just babying the hell out of this guy.

People get so caught up in the Rodgers vs Favre skill wise evaluation this year which is almost impossible to do. The really unfair thing to Rodgers in all of this is so much of it is not his fault directly and was completely out of his control.

Rodgers is a first year guy. I dont think that is a big excuse for performance. He has had enough time to watch and learn and practice. Where I do cut him a lot of slack is the fact that a first year guy doesnt have the clout yet to stand up to his coaches and other veterans. His coaches screw him with bad play calling and he can do nothing but grin and bear it. His GM provided him NO veteran QB support. The value of this in game can be quite valuable. If you are coming to the sidelines during a timeout to talk about what you are seeing, would you rather talk to Mccarthy or a guy like Trent Dilfer?

He has very few guys to lean on. He has handled it all very well. Always puts it on himself. It is starting to wear on him though, you can see it on the field.

The big difference here is Rodgers needs some help. He isnt getting it. He has no control over getting it. He is doing great with what he is being given.

Everything would have been different with Favre. And I will say it again. There is no way anybody convinces me that this team that went 13-3 doesnt make the playoffs with Favre under center in this crappy division. Instead we are staring 5-11 right in the face.

Interesting in the bold...these are the reasons I said earlier that TT screwed up in not getting a backup QB. Not only for Rodgers...but even for Brohm on the sidelines.And I brought up Dilfer as a possiblity...though, if picking between listening to he or McCarthy...McCarthy may still get that nod.

Make the playoffs with Favre? Possibly in this division (though, Minny is peaking pretty big right now)...do much if they had gotten there? I don't think so.

 

[hardcoredx]

Anyone with half a brain can see the Jets have better O-line than the Packers. The Packers can't run that well. Favre isn't as good as Rodgers. Next season, I expect a QB controversy there in NY

 

[Stinger Ray]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

I guess you missed the games that Favre helped the Packers win late last year against Denver, San Diego and Kansas City.How many times has Rodgers done that this year?

 

[sho nuff]

Anyone with half a brain can see the Jets have better O-line than the Packers. The Packers can't run that well. Favre isn't as good as Rodgers. Next season, I expect a QB controversy there

Umm...I cannot agree with either of the statements there in bold.Favre is still better than Rodgers at this point. But I don't think the gap is that big at all.

QB controversy in NY? I doubt that unless Favre retires.

 

[Ozymandias]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

i understand the point you are making but look at it from the other side of the coin.The Jets defense gave up 27 points and 187 rushing yards yet the Jets still won.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

Some short memories up in here.

 

[sho nuff]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

I guess you missed the games that Favre helped the Packers win late last year against Denver, San Diego and Kansas City.How many times has Rodgers done that this year?

I am glad you brought up Denver.The offense up up a whopping 13 points in regulation. Funny, how many wins do the 2008 Packers have when only putting up 13 points in regulation?Do you think defense had anything to do with that game too?I don't know, like holding Denver to FGs in the 3rd and 4th quarters while the offense went scoreless in the 2nd half.Yes...Favre threw the huge play in OT...beautiful pass and route by Jennings. But if you don't think the defense did its job in that game, you are crazy.SD...yup...Favre put them ahead with the pass to Jennings...up by 3. What happened after that? Did the D give up a late TD like they did against Carolina or Jacksonville? Nope...got the ball back and Jackson ran home the clinching TD. Great pass by Favre and Jennings...but they got help late to seal the game.KC...they took a 4 point lead late...then got an INT returned for a TD to seal the game. He did have a nice TD to Jennings in that one late too to take the 1 point lead late. But again got help in the end.You brought up 3 examples of things Rodgers has not gotten since earlier in the year and in the Indy game. Late help by the D after taking a late lead.Good plays by Favre for sure (Rodgers had some nice ones in setting up the go ahead FG yesterday, as well as the go ahead TD against Carolina)

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

i understand the point you are making but look at it from the other side of the coin.The Jets defense gave up 27 points and 187 rushing yards yet the Jets still won.

Probably had something to do with the 3 points and 84 yards favre and co. produced in the second half.

 

[sho nuff]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

i understand the point you are making but look at it from the other side of the coin.The Jets defense gave up 27 points and 187 rushing yards yet the Jets still won.

Yup...had they lost...the Jets D was partially to blame too.They gave up alot in the 2nd half. And the offense was doing nothing.In the end, their D bailed out the offense though. GB and Rodgers did not get that bailing out did they.Sometimes, a team needs the defense to secure a win. Sometimes even when the offense is scoring...sometimes when the offense is struggling.Take the Washington game last year...the offense scored 10 points. THey won because of a play by the defense.And I mentioned how the defense helped out in the SD, KC and Denver games too.This year...they got the help late agaisnt Minny after the offense got cold in the 2nd half.Detroit..same thing...the D gave up some against Detroit after some miscues on offense...and got the late INTs to seal the win (after the offense had already taken the lead back) And again Indy...they got the big plays late to seal it. (the offense played pretty well in that one too though).But now the last 3 weeks...the offense needed some help late...and did not get it. Its not all on the D for sure. But the D being a bit more veteran of a unit...needs to step up sometimes too...especially when the offense struggles and if Rodgers is struggling.THat is why I put so much of the emphasis on talking about the D.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

I guess you missed the games that Favre helped the Packers win late last year against Denver, San Diego and Kansas City.How many times has Rodgers done that this year?

I am glad you brought up Denver.The offense up up a whopping 13 points in regulation. Funny, how many wins do the 2008 Packers have when only putting up 13 points in regulation?Do you think defense had anything to do with that game too?I don't know, like holding Denver to FGs in the 3rd and 4th quarters while the offense went scoreless in the 2nd half.Yes...Favre threw the huge play in OT...beautiful pass and route by Jennings. But if you don't think the defense did its job in that game, you are crazy.SD...yup...Favre put them ahead with the pass to Jennings...up by 3. What happened after that? Did the D give up a late TD like they did against Carolina or Jacksonville? Nope...got the ball back and Jackson ran home the clinching TD. Great pass by Favre and Jennings...but they got help late to seal the game.KC...they took a 4 point lead late...then got an INT returned for a TD to seal the game. He did have a nice TD to Jennings in that one late too to take the 1 point lead late. But again got help in the end.You brought up 3 examples of things Rodgers has not gotten since earlier in the year and in the Indy game. Late help by the D after taking a late lead.Good plays by Favre for sure (Rodgers had some nice ones in setting up the go ahead FG yesterday, as well as the go ahead TD against Carolina)

It is amazing the spin you will use to try and diminish what Favre did with the Packers. The guy had 40 4th quarter comebacks. So far Rodgers hasn't been able to do that. Make all the excuses you want but Rodgers needs to get that monkey off his back.

 

[hardcoredx]

Anyone with half a brain can see the Jets have better O-line than the Packers. The Packers can't run that well. Favre isn't as good as Rodgers. Next season, I expect a QB controversy there

Umm...I cannot agree with either of the statements there in bold.Favre is still better than Rodgers at this point. But I don't think the gap is that big at all.

QB controversy in NY? I doubt that unless Favre retires.

The stats tell the story. You are easily fooled because NYJ can run the ball at will. Rodgers still has a better QB rating/stats with a non-existent running game. Favre's time is running out, next year will be lights out

 

[sho nuff]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

I guess you missed the games that Favre helped the Packers win late last year against Denver, San Diego and Kansas City.How many times has Rodgers done that this year?

I am glad you brought up Denver.The offense up up a whopping 13 points in regulation. Funny, how many wins do the 2008 Packers have when only putting up 13 points in regulation?Do you think defense had anything to do with that game too?I don't know, like holding Denver to FGs in the 3rd and 4th quarters while the offense went scoreless in the 2nd half.Yes...Favre threw the huge play in OT...beautiful pass and route by Jennings. But if you don't think the defense did its job in that game, you are crazy.SD...yup...Favre put them ahead with the pass to Jennings...up by 3. What happened after that? Did the D give up a late TD like they did against Carolina or Jacksonville? Nope...got the ball back and Jackson ran home the clinching TD. Great pass by Favre and Jennings...but they got help late to seal the game.KC...they took a 4 point lead late...then got an INT returned for a TD to seal the game. He did have a nice TD to Jennings in that one late too to take the 1 point lead late. But again got help in the end.You brought up 3 examples of things Rodgers has not gotten since earlier in the year and in the Indy game. Late help by the D after taking a late lead.Good plays by Favre for sure (Rodgers had some nice ones in setting up the go ahead FG yesterday, as well as the go ahead TD against Carolina)

It is amazing the spin you will use to try and diminish what Favre did with the Packers. The guy had 40 4th quarter comebacks. So far Rodgers hasn't been able to do that. Make all the excuses you want but Rodgers needs to get that monkey off his back.

Its not that amazing that you will not recognize that I gave Favre credit but that you refuse to see that the defense did anything in those wins. Its pretty much par for the course with some of you.I agree, Rodgers needs to get the job done. But he also needs help at times...Favre got it...as referenced by the facts I posted above in those games.Was it Favre who got the credit for the comeback against Washington last year or agaisnt Buffalo yesterday? Eventhough it was not the offense that got it done but the D. (well, technically the D got it done in the 3rd quarter against Washington last year).

 

[Stinger Ray]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

Favre after his first 14 starts 9-5Rodgers after his first 14 starts 5-9

 

[sho nuff]

Anyone with half a brain can see the Jets have better O-line than the Packers. The Packers can't run that well. Favre isn't as good as Rodgers. Next season, I expect a QB controversy there

Umm...I cannot agree with either of the statements there in bold.Favre is still better than Rodgers at this point. But I don't think the gap is that big at all.

QB controversy in NY? I doubt that unless Favre retires.

The stats tell the story. You are easily fooled because NYJ can run the ball at will. Rodgers still has a better QB rating/stats with a non-existent running game. Favre's time is running out, next year will be lights out

Umm...you might want to read a few posts in this thread if you think I am just easily fooled and on the Favre bandwagon here.I fully support Rodgers and the decision that was made.

But Favre is still, at this point, the better QB. That may not last long...but for now, it is still true.

 

[sho nuff]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

Favre after his first 14 starts 9-5Rodgers after his first 14 starts 5-9

Where are you finding those standings...Im only seeing the Jets and Packers listed in my standings.While I disagree with him in who is better...a teams record is not always the line with who is the better QB.The Titans have a better record than the Colts...is Collins better than Manning?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Anyone with half a brain can see the Jets have better O-line than the Packers. The Packers can't run that well. Favre isn't as good as Rodgers. Next season, I expect a QB controversy there in NY

as opposed to last year when they averaged a whopping .1 more yards per carry and 10 fewer rushing yards per game?

 

[hardcoredx]

Anyone with half a brain can see the Jets have better O-line than the Packers. The Packers can't run that well. Favre isn't as good as Rodgers. Next season, I expect a QB controversy there

Umm...I cannot agree with either of the statements there in bold.Favre is still better than Rodgers at this point. But I don't think the gap is that big at all.

QB controversy in NY? I doubt that unless Favre retires.

The stats tell the story. You are easily fooled because NYJ can run the ball at will. Rodgers still has a better QB rating/stats with a non-existent running game. Favre's time is running out, next year will be lights out

Umm...you might want to read a few posts in this thread if you think I am just easily fooled and on the Favre bandwagon here.I fully support Rodgers and the decision that was made.

But Favre is still, at this point, the better QB. That may not last long...but for now, it is still true.

He isn't better, nothing solid to back it up

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

i understand the point you are making but look at it from the other side of the coin.The Jets defense gave up 27 points and 187 rushing yards yet the Jets still won.

Probably had something to do with the 3 points and 84 yards favre and co. produced in the second half.

I found myself looking carefully at the game winning play by the Jets defense, wondering if Favre was on the field.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

Favre after his first 14 starts 9-5Rodgers after his first 14 starts 5-9

Where are you finding those standings...Im only seeing the Jets and Packers listed in my standings.While I disagree with him in who is better...a teams record is not always the line with who is the better QB.The Titans have a better record than the Colts...is Collins better than Manning?

WTF are you talking about? I can not believe the crap you come up with!What part of "Favre after his FIRST 14 starts" don't you understand?Do I need to go slower for you?Favre after his first 14 starts with the Packers was 9-5 and that doesn't include leading the Packers back against the Bengals.Rodgers after his first 14 starts with the Packers is 5-9.Do you understand now?

 

[zDragon]

Garrarbage. You know a defense sucks when that clown has a game against you.

Steelers let them score 21 versus the Packers Defense giving them 20. To bad the Steelers defense is not very good.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

Favre after his first 14 starts 9-5Rodgers after his first 14 starts 5-9

The Titans have a better record than the Colts...is Collins better than Manning?

WOW!

 

[zDragon]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

Focusing on one game?

 

[Phurfur]

I thought Aaron Rodgers looked great yesterday, he is the one bright spot for the Packers this year.

 

[zDragon]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

Worst you have ever seen in your life? I don't think you have watched much football just this year much less ever if you think that is true.Sure...his decision making has been bad at times. But is there ever an INT that is not at a horrible time?

Maybe some names, examples or numbers?I would think B. Johnson could easily qualify as worse.I've seen QB's throw them when they are up 3 scores late when the game is not in question. Not a horrible time to throw it.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

I thought Aaron Rodgers looked great yesterday, he is the one bright spot for the Packers this year.

I don't think Rodgers agrees with you about yesterday.

"I get paid to make plays and I need to make plays," Rodgers said. "I haven't been doing that as often as I want to be or should be. I take it upon myself. I'm disappointed. I've got to make the throws. I haven't been making them and I take that right on my shoulders."

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Garrarbage. You know a defense sucks when that clown has a game against you.

Steelers let them score 21 versus the Packers Defense giving them 20. To bad the Steelers defense is not very good.

7 of those points were from a Rashean Mathis Int. return against the Steelers.HTH

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

I thought Aaron Rodgers looked great yesterday, he is the one bright spot for the Packers this year.

I don't think Rodgers agrees with you about yesterday.

"I get paid to make plays and I need to make plays," Rodgers said. "I haven't been doing that as often as I want to be or should be. I take it upon myself. I'm disappointed. I've got to make the throws. I haven't been making them and I take that right on my shoulders."

What is he supposed to say? Do you think he is going to come out and point fingers? Some of you guys are being very obtuse.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/articl...4038/1058/PKR01

From the Green Bay Press Gazette

December 14, 2008

Mike Vandermause column: Enough talk — Rodgers needs to deliver

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — It’s one thing to accept responsibility for the Green Bay Packers’ horrendous slump; it’s another to do something about it.

That’s the difficult place quarterback Aaron Rodgers finds himself in following another demoralizing Packers loss, this time at the hands of the lowly Jacksonville Jaguars.

The Packers are out of playoff contention and out of explanations for their repeated failures to win close games this season. A 20-16 loss at Jacksonville Municipal Stadium Sunday was more of the same old tired routine for the Packers, who for the sixth time this season had a chance to mount a winning drive in the final minutes but failed.

“It’s frustrating, because it seems to be the same thing every week,” guard Daryn Colledge said. “I get tired of doing the same interview. It’s like, ‘Oh man, it’s so close, you guys had an opportunity, what happened at the end?’ Right now, we need to find out a way to get it done in the end so we can stop talking about what we didn’t do.”

The way to get it done begins with Rodgers, the leader of the offense who has played respectably for a first-year starter but has come up short with games on the line.

None of Rodgers’ teammates blame him for the Packers’ offensive shortcomings in crunch time. Quite the contrary, they’re quick to defend him.

“It’s not one person at all,” tackle Chad Clifton said. “Aaron’s been playing his butt off this year, no question about that.”

But there’s a reason Rodgers is the highest-paid player on this team, and there’s a reason he starts at the most important position.

Rodgers must be the player to lead this team out of its death spiral. Rodgers must be the one to strap the free-falling Packers on his shoulders and carry them out of the abyss.

It’s too late to salvage much from this season other than pride, but if the Packers have any hopes of turning things around next season, it must start with Rodgers.

He couldn’t rally the Packers against the Jaguars in the final 2 minutes for a game-winning touchdown, but instead threw an interception to end their hopes.

Rodgers is a stand-up guy who has not deflected blame for the Packers’ plight.

“I get paid to make plays,” Rodgers said. “So, I need to make plays. I haven’t been doing that as well or as often as I want to be or should be. So, I take it on myself. It’s disappointing. I’ve got to make the throws. I get paid to make those plays down the stretch. I haven’t been making them. I take that right on my shoulders.”

The problem is Rodgers said much the same thing after losses against Houston, Carolina, Minnesota, Tennessee and Tampa Bay. At some point, he has to turn those admirable words into action and guide the Packers to a victory in a tight game.

When asked if Rodgers was to blame for the Packers’ inability to score against the Jaguars on yet another late-game possession with the outcome in the balance, coach Mike McCarthy replied: “I think it’s on the whole offense. The quarterback is a big part of it.”

The offense is an 11-man unit, so singling out one player for repeated failures isn’t necessarily fair. But that’s life in the NFL, where quarterbacks have the greatest impact on winning and losing.

“They make a play, we’ve got to come back and finish it off and we don’t do it,” Rodgers said. “That’s kind of been the script, unfortunately. It’s disappointing. I take as much blame as anybody should.”

It’s not as if Rodgers has completely gone in the tank with games on the line. He led the Packers to a fourth-quarter go-ahead field goal on Sunday, but the Jaguars responded with a touchdown. The same thing happened against the Panthers two weeks ago. In both cases, Rodgers’ performance wasn’t good enough.

Rodgers entered the weekend as a top 10 NFL quarterback in several statistical categories. There’s no question he has the tools necessary to become a special player, but for that to happen, he has to start leading the Packers to victories. That’s the only statistic that matters.

 

[zDragon]

Garrarbage. You know a defense sucks when that clown has a game against you.

Steelers let them score 21 versus the Packers Defense giving them 20. To bad the Steelers defense is not very good.

7 of those points were from a Rashean Mathis Int. return against the Steelers.HTH

Still not a bad game against the BEST defense in football. I didn't recall the pick but didn't Garrad break 250 or get close?

 

[bcr8f]

too?No doubt. Going from these extremes in wins/losses makes a great case that Favre is a winner and Rodgers isn't. I'm pretty sure the Jets upgraded the most important position in football with Favre, remember they weren't sure if they should roll with Kellen Clemens. I don't think the Jets would be 9-5 with Kellen Clemens, how about giving Favre the credit he deserves.

How is Rodgers not a winner? With Favre in Green bay Rodgers never got a chance to play unless Favre got hurt. With Favre there he never even got garbage time.How were Eli and Peyton their first years? The guy has a nice deep throw and good arm strength. He isn't Favre but give him a chance.

 

[sho nuff]

Yes there are things to criticize about Rodgers. But he's a QB who is on his way up, while Favre is on his way down. And, as recently as 2005, Favre threw 20 td's and 29 int's. Contrast that with Rodgers, in his first year as a fulltime starter, with 23-12 so far.

Favre after his first 14 starts 9-5Rodgers after his first 14 starts 5-9

Where are you finding those standings...Im only seeing the Jets and Packers listed in my standings.While I disagree with him in who is better...a teams record is not always the line with who is the better QB.The Titans have a better record than the Colts...is Collins better than Manning?

WTF are you talking about? I can not believe the crap you come up with!What part of "Favre after his FIRST 14 starts" don't you understand?Do I need to go slower for you?Favre after his first 14 starts with the Packers was 9-5 and that doesn't include leading the Packers back against the Bengals.Rodgers after his first 14 starts with the Packers is 5-9.Do you understand now?

Ok, I did not see totally where you went with his first starts.Great...but tell me...what does this team and 1992 really have to do with each other?I understand that you threw out the record of 2 QBs in a totally irrelevant manner as the two teams were completely different.

 

[sho nuff]

Why just posting the records is pretty foolish...Everyone talks about Rodgers not winning games late and so on...Favre yesterday in the 3rd quarter was 4/6 for 53 yards, 0 TDs 1 INT. 0 points for the Jets.4th quarter he was 1/7 for 5 yards. They got a FG after a INT gave them the ball at the 20. They got a 3 yard run and then his one completion for 5 yards and kicked an FG.Yeah...he really pulled them through alright. Such a clutch late game performance.

Focusing on one game?

Want me to bring up others too?It was the latest example.

 

[sho nuff]

The Packers have a bad record because of a few reasons outside of Aaron Rodgers. There are two reasons their record is bad that are Rodgers fault, his pocket awareness is the worst I have ever seen in my life that wasn't a high school football game and his decision making (throwing picks at horrible times) is pretty awful.

Worst you have ever seen in your life? I don't think you have watched much football just this year much less ever if you think that is true.Sure...his decision making has been bad at times. But is there ever an INT that is not at a horrible time?

Maybe some names, examples or numbers?I would think B. Johnson could easily qualify as worse.I've seen QB's throw them when they are up 3 scores late when the game is not in question. Not a horrible time to throw it.

Names or numbers?Sorry, did not create a list off the top of my head.You came up with a great one in Johnson, Culpepper, Harrington, Bulger....To say he is the worst ever is a pretty foolish post IMO.Do you disagree?

 

[az_prof]

Good luck with Rodgers for the next few years Cheeseheads. Vikes and Bears will be laughing all the way to the playoffs.

Packers = Fail.

 

[sho nuff]

Garrarbage. You know a defense sucks when that clown has a game against you.

Steelers let them score 21 versus the Packers Defense giving them 20. To bad the Steelers defense is not very good.

7 of those points were from a Rashean Mathis Int. return against the Steelers.HTH

Still not a bad game against the BEST defense in football. I didn't recall the pick but didn't Garrad break 250 or get close?

He also had Matt Jones, Porter, and a healthy Fred Taylor.Rather than just Dennis Northcut and some backup TE that nobody knows a thing about.he threw for 200 yards and 1 TD

 

[sho nuff]

Good luck with Rodgers for the next few years Cheeseheads. Vikes and Bears will be laughing all the way to the playoffs. Packers = Fail.

Congrats to the Vikings...on the verge of winning their first ever NFC North title.Bears laughing all the way to the playoffs? Only if they get the division, I don't see them getting the WC...funny how that big loss to GB might just keep them out...maybe GB can finish them off next week.As for good luck with Rodgers for the next few years...OK...thanks, we enjoy having the best QB in the division.

 

[GreenNGold]

How is Rodgers not a winner?

Normally you have to actually win games to be considered a winner. That's not saying he won't turn into one someday, he has the potential, time will tell.