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How's your housing market? (2 Viewers)

:lmao: grown adults don't ##### about weather. They live where it's best for them and their family.

My point is quality of life isn't a function of the average monthly temp. I know plenty of people who hated FL even though weather is better. Plenty of people who moved to a colder climate who are happy to do so.

My whole point was to refute what RL said.
What are you refuting exactly?

You seem to be puffing out your chest and strutting a bunch because...why exactly?

All in reaction to a joke about your massive understatement that Minneapolis "gets cold" for "3 months".

From what I can tell of your logic: living somewhere cold makes you tough, but leaving the immediate proximity of friends and relatives makes you some sort of sociopath who "doesn't value long term relationships".

You're weird.

 
Just moved from NY to Atlanta area, call me whatever you want not going to miss NY weather one bit (taxes too).

 
:lmao: grown adults don't ##### about weather. They live where it's best for them and their family.

My point is quality of life isn't a function of the average monthly temp. I know plenty of people who hated FL even though weather is better. Plenty of people who moved to a colder climate who are happy to do so.

My whole point was to refute what RL said.
What are you refuting exactly?

You seem to be puffing out your chest and strutting a bunch because...why exactly?

All in reaction to a joke about your massive understatement that Minneapolis "gets cold" for "3 months".

From what I can tell of your logic: living somewhere cold makes you tough, but leaving the immediate proximity of friends and relatives makes you some sort of sociopath who "doesn't value long term relationships".

You're weird.
Eh forget it.
 
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http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.

 
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
NY is unique in that it's one of a handful of places where international money needs a house. As long as Richard Branson or Middle Eastern oil money wants a place in the U.S. to stay while here for business, NY, LA and maybe SF will be magnets for them to buy. You are probably right that there's a limit but your assumption that the 'market' is primarily New Yorkers is why it feels out of scale. If it was just New Yorkers sure.

 
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
Why is the unsustainable point "when people earning 4-500k are priced out"?

 
Proximity to family, especially with small kids, is priceless IMO. Not just for the help when needed but like the idea of my kids being able to have close relationships with family other than their mom and me. So I don't think that criteria is ridiculous at all.

And with respect to weather, I like having 4 seasons but having to deal with piles of snow every winter is a headache I could live without (upstate NYer).

 
ditka311 said:
I wonder if there's a market anywhere where it's awful....
Chicagoland has healed up- no where near being called 'awful' but certainly not a hot market either.

I keep hearing more and more people wanting to move out of Chicago/Illinois (including me). Heck, even my "I will never move out of the city" friend just posted how she was starting to consider it after more taxes have gone up. I laughed at her.
Cook County has been losing population for over a decade, if I am not mistaken.

The people who simply move out of Cook to another place in Illinois are only taking half-measures though. GTFO of that state.
We are one of these families who will be putting our home up for sale in IL in the spring, although we are in Will County.

ETA: The plan is to move to Texas. We don't have any family there but that's ok. Wife doesn't work currently but will go back to work when our kids are in school. Most of our family is here and of course we will miss them but they can visit and we would come back to visit. My brother is actually considering something similar but his wife won't move due to having all of her family here.

Funny thing is, years ago it was me who wanted to move and the wife wouldn't budge. Now she's leading the charge out of IL.
What changed her mind?

 
:lmao: grown adults don't ##### about weather. They live where it's best for them and their family.

My point is quality of life isn't a function of the average monthly temp. I know plenty of people who hated FL even though weather is better. Plenty of people who moved to a colder climate who are happy to do so.

My whole point was to refute what RL said.
Different people value different things. I can deal with a winter but what I hate about Chicago is the crappy winter AND humid summers. It is like the worst of both worlds!!!! I mean, if I have to deal with the Chicago winter at least give me a summer that is nice and not disgusting humidity! Or if I have to deal with humidity during the summer then at least let me have mild winters. Or... you choose So Cal and don't deal with either. That is why So Cal exploded after WWII. All of the service men who were stationed there at some point realized how dang nice the weather was all year long and decided to move there. And then why do old people move in retirement? Two factors- cost of living/taxes and weather. Weather is a factor. How much of a factor depends on the person.

 
I have no idea how someone who grew up in SoCal could ever be excited about spending the rest of their life in Indocrapolis.
You know, I moved out to the Chicago area back in 2003 from So Cal. The plan was to be out here for 2-3 years and then move back. A number of things have happened and I have never moved. Even so it has always been that eventually we would move and the move would be back to So Cal. That is up until about 9 months ago when it just dawned on me- a lot of things I do not like about Illinois/Chicago are the same in So Cal. Now, obviously if you are going to pick between the two, So Cal wins but not only do have a high tax burden there you have ridiculous (as outlined in the discussion of this thread) housing costs. If for nothing else, moving to Indianapolis makes financial sense. Now, Indianapolis would never be on my list of places I want to move to but when I am limited to Chicago, So Cal and Indianapolis- Indianapolis makes the most financial sense. Also, I have visited many times now and the burb that my friend lives in is extremely nice. They always brag how it makes best place to live or best place to raise a family type lists all the time. There are a number of things that I liked about it when there and really there is not much that I lose from Chicago to Indianapolis that I can't make a 4 hour trip to visit for. I can't say that I would be excited to move to Indianapolis as I would be excited to leave the Chicago area and seperately to be involved in starting this company.
Indy is nice IMO, but I love Los Angeles despite the high cost of living.

 
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.

Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.

 
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs. Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
So, Colorado or Seattle or Portland? Maybe Santa Fe or Asheville?
 
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.

Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
C'mon out to Diego Hack.

 
I'm not sure about the greater area, but the city of Buffalo has been pretty scorching hot over the first half of 2014. I think there's a big push from millennials (like me) to finally buy rather than rent, coupled with a lot of downsizing adults who want to move into the city. I get the sense that the suburbs are same as they've always been but that the city is the hottest it's been in decades. On one occasion recently, a house sold for 40% above list price. I've seen multiple listings pulled after open houses and re-listed at +25% of list price. A friend of a friend has lost out on 5 different bids to all-cash offers. Insane.
This sounds a lot like Buffalo... always 8 years behind the rest of the country.

 
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
So, Colorado or Seattle or Portland? Maybe Santa Fe or Asheville?
Something like that.....yes.

 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.

Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the burbs previous (Naperville then Schaumburg) moved to the city and really disliked it. Moved back out to the burbs.

To be fair, I grew up in the burbs of L.A. and I think people tend to prefer what they grew up with and/or use to. I much prefer the Chicago burbs to living in the city. However, I still don't like living out here period. But then the things that I don't like about Illinois in general are amplified by living in Cook/Chicago.

Like I said before- different people are going to prefer different things. As I get older, I appreciate a lower cost of living and higher overall quality of life over other things that some people might be willing to compromise on those for. In general though, I have heard more and more people over the last few years voice displeasure with living here.

Finally, one other ancedote. On my desk I have a something that among a few other things indicates that I grew up in So Cal. At least 80%, if not more, of the people that see that have one question "why did you move out here?" 100% of those that ask it ask it in a tone wondering what mental illness I have.

 
OC Zed said:
I'm not sure about the greater area, but the city of Buffalo has been pretty scorching hot over the first half of 2014. I think there's a big push from millennials (like me) to finally buy rather than rent, coupled with a lot of downsizing adults who want to move into the city. I get the sense that the suburbs are same as they've always been but that the city is the hottest it's been in decades. On one occasion recently, a house sold for 40% above list price. I've seen multiple listings pulled after open houses and re-listed at +25% of list price. A friend of a friend has lost out on 5 different bids to all-cash offers. Insane.
This sounds a lot like Buffalo... always 8 years behind the rest of the country.
It's good for me, as I was able to buy right in the city at a reasonable price. I think a lot of the younger crowd is going to be priced out in a few years.

 
tommyGunZ said:
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
Why is the unsustainable point "when people earning 4-500k are priced out"?
There gets to a point where you start really running out of buyers. In Manhattan specifically, I think the stats show that roughly 5% of the population are millionaires. I'd assume there are a much larger portion of the population here making money in that range(4-500) than $1-$2M and as the numbers go up it continues to shrink drastically. I think some neighborhoods are getting to a point where the vast majority (even high income earners) are starting to get priced out and when we do get there, the market cools significantly. I think if rates go above 5%, this will be the first major slowdown. People in the $400-$500k range aren't the cash buyers, so the houses they can afford in the $1-$1.5M range, even at that lower price point will become less affordable.

ETA:

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.

 
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asked my realtor wife about the local Charlotte market. It's very neighborhood dependent right now. Certain properties (i.e. lakefront) are in the "multiple offers the day of listing" region. Other neighborhoods, (i.e. 5-10 year old construction a few miles outside of town) are slow to stagnant.

Some large areas are becoming unaffordable for first time house buyers (i.e. nothing available for <$250k), mostly because of NYers moving down and, because of the relative cost of housing, have no problem buying for more than the house should go for. At the same time, there are flippers being successful buying up distressed houses in shady neighborhoods for $25k, putting in $50k worth of work, and selling for $120k. My wife has worked with a few folks doing that.

Realtors are having problems with houses selling for more than the appraisal comes in at. This is something I really don't understand. Example: house in a neighborhood averaging $250k goes on market for $280k (assume no extra upgrades or anything to justify the cost difference). New York person sees a 2750 sf house on a wooded lot for $280k and thinks it's a bargain, offers $275k. Seller agrees to price, and then appraisal comes in at...$250k on the basis of 4 other houses in that neighborhood selling for $250k within the past 6 months.

 
tommyGunZ said:
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
Why is the unsustainable point "when people earning 4-500k are priced out"?
There gets to a point where you start really running out of buyers. In Manhattan specifically, I think the stats show that roughly 5% of the population are millionaires. I'd assume there are a much larger portion of the population here making money in that range(4-500) than $1-$2M and as the numbers go up it continues to shrink drastically. I think some neighborhoods are getting to a point where the vast majority (even high income earners) are starting to get priced out and when we do get there, the market cools significantly. I think if rates go above 5%, this will be the first major slowdown. People in the $400-$500k range aren't the cash buyers, so the houses they can afford in the $1-$1.5M range, even at that lower price point will become less affordable.

ETA:

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
that's when folks decide they'd rather move to Charlotte where $1.5M gets you a huge house on the water in a city with nice climate and a solid banking industry.

 
tommyGunZ said:
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
Why is the unsustainable point "when people earning 4-500k are priced out"?
There gets to a point where you start really running out of buyers. In Manhattan specifically, I think the stats show that roughly 5% of the population are millionaires. I'd assume there are a much larger portion of the population here making money in that range(4-500) than $1-$2M and as the numbers go up it continues to shrink drastically. I think some neighborhoods are getting to a point where the vast majority (even high income earners) are starting to get priced out and when we do get there, the market cools significantly. I think if rates go above 5%, this will be the first major slowdown. People in the $400-$500k range aren't the cash buyers, so the houses they can afford in the $1-$1.5M range, even at that lower price point will become less affordable.

ETA:

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
Which nationally has not been moving much.

 
ETA:

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
Which nationally has not been moving much.
Which is why I think at some point these valuations slow down. You can't have housing prices going up 20% a year for multiple years with income increasing nominally (if that). At this point it feels like the valuations are just going to continue north, and I have no idea what or when will actually be the inflection point that stops it, but I think it will happen.

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
that's when folks decide they'd rather move to Charlotte where $1.5M gets you a huge house on the water in a city with nice climate and a solid banking industry.
Agree for some industries, but others are relegated to certain locations. Those in tech, marketing/advertising, etc. are stuck in a handful of places, which unfortunately helps blow the price inflation bubble bigger. This can go on for quite some time too.

 
ETA:

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
Which nationally has not been moving much.
Which is why I think at some point these valuations slow down. You can't have housing prices going up 20% a year for multiple years with income increasing nominally (if that). At this point it feels like the valuations are just going to continue north, and I have no idea what or when will actually be the inflection point that stops it, but I think it will happen.
But as pointed out previously, if you add in higher interest rates some of these hot markets are likely not only to see a slow down in valuations but a correction.

 
Agree for some industries, but others are relegated to certain locations.
It will be interesting to see what happens as more and more industries switch to full time (or nearly full time) teleworking. I don't think it's happening in the near future, but I think the need to have people physically present in the same office is going to decline in many industries over the years. Imagine being able to live wherever you want without having to get a new job.

 
Agree for some industries, but others are relegated to certain locations.
It will be interesting to see what happens as more and more industries switch to full time (or nearly full time) teleworking. I don't think it's happening in the near future, but I think the need to have people physically present in the same office is going to decline in many industries over the years. Imagine being able to live wherever you want without having to get a new job.
I'd be out of NYC by tomorrow if this was the case. I'd prob stay close by, but if commuting wasn't an issue, goodbye NYC, hello suburbs!

A bunch of CEO's in the tech industry have openly said they are against WFH, even though studies show people can be equally or in some cases more productive out of the office. The main argument I hear is it ruins collaboration, which is horse####!

 
ETA:

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
Which nationally has not been moving much.
Which is why I think at some point these valuations slow down. You can't have housing prices going up 20% a year for multiple years with income increasing nominally (if that). At this point it feels like the valuations are just going to continue north, and I have no idea what or when will actually be the inflection point that stops it, but I think it will happen.

I don't think this happens overnight, but at some point these valuations become unsustainable without significant wage growth.
that's when folks decide they'd rather move to Charlotte where $1.5M gets you a huge house on the water in a city with nice climate and a solid banking industry.
Agree for some industries, but others are relegated to certain locations. Those in tech, marketing/advertising, etc. are stuck in a handful of places, which unfortunately helps blow the price inflation bubble bigger. This can go on for quite some time too.
at some point, industries will decide that it's not cost effective to continue the way they are. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to maintain such a large presence in the Bay area (tech, for example) where they have to pay their employees such a huge salary simply to overcome the high local housing cost.

 
Realtors are having problems with houses selling for more than the appraisal comes in at. This is something I really don't understand. Example: house in a neighborhood averaging $250k goes on market for $280k (assume no extra upgrades or anything to justify the cost difference). New York person sees a 2750 sf house on a wooded lot for $280k and thinks it's a bargain, offers $275k. Seller agrees to price, and then appraisal comes in at...$250k on the basis of 4 other houses in that neighborhood selling for $250k within the past 6 months.
If that NY person decides to move immediately after purchasing the house it likely won't sell for $275k again. One sale does not make a market.

Also, there's nothing stopping the buyer from paying an extra $25k out of their own pocket to make up the difference between the purchase price and appraisal.

 
Realtors are having problems with houses selling for more than the appraisal comes in at. This is something I really don't understand. Example: house in a neighborhood averaging $250k goes on market for $280k (assume no extra upgrades or anything to justify the cost difference). New York person sees a 2750 sf house on a wooded lot for $280k and thinks it's a bargain, offers $275k. Seller agrees to price, and then appraisal comes in at...$250k on the basis of 4 other houses in that neighborhood selling for $250k within the past 6 months.
If that NY person decides to move immediately after purchasing the house it likely won't sell for $275k again. One sale does not make a market.

Also, there's nothing stopping the buyer from paying an extra $25k out of their own pocket to make up the difference between the purchase price and appraisal.
Yeah, it mostly has to do with the mortgage amount. At the end of the day, the banks don't want to lend more than the appraisal value.....even if the buyer and seller agree that they think it's worth more.

 
Realtors are having problems with houses selling for more than the appraisal comes in at. This is something I really don't understand. Example: house in a neighborhood averaging $250k goes on market for $280k (assume no extra upgrades or anything to justify the cost difference). New York person sees a 2750 sf house on a wooded lot for $280k and thinks it's a bargain, offers $275k. Seller agrees to price, and then appraisal comes in at...$250k on the basis of 4 other houses in that neighborhood selling for $250k within the past 6 months.
If that NY person decides to move immediately after purchasing the house it likely won't sell for $275k again. One sale does not make a market.

Also, there's nothing stopping the buyer from paying an extra $25k out of their own pocket to make up the difference between the purchase price and appraisal.
Yeah, it mostly has to do with the mortgage amount. At the end of the day, the banks don't want to lend more than the appraisal value.....even if the buyer and seller agree that they think it's worth more.
I get that, it just seems like a mechanism whereby there isn't room for appreciation. House sales values are explicitly tied to what has happened within the past 6 months - no real ability for something to appreciate.

suppose in my above example the offer was @262k on a house appraised at $250k. The buyer is offering just 5% more than what comps sold for up to 6 months ago, but the bank won't issue a mortgage for that. essentially, the process puts a cap on how much property can appreciate, regardless of market conditions. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just an interesting mechanism.

 
Realtors are having problems with houses selling for more than the appraisal comes in at. This is something I really don't understand. Example: house in a neighborhood averaging $250k goes on market for $280k (assume no extra upgrades or anything to justify the cost difference). New York person sees a 2750 sf house on a wooded lot for $280k and thinks it's a bargain, offers $275k. Seller agrees to price, and then appraisal comes in at...$250k on the basis of 4 other houses in that neighborhood selling for $250k within the past 6 months.
If that NY person decides to move immediately after purchasing the house it likely won't sell for $275k again. One sale does not make a market.

Also, there's nothing stopping the buyer from paying an extra $25k out of their own pocket to make up the difference between the purchase price and appraisal.
Yeah, it mostly has to do with the mortgage amount. At the end of the day, the banks don't want to lend more than the appraisal value.....even if the buyer and seller agree that they think it's worth more.
I get that, it just seems like a mechanism whereby there isn't room for appreciation. House sales values are explicitly tied to what has happened within the past 6 months - no real ability for something to appreciate.

suppose in my above example the offer was @262k on a house appraised at $250k. The buyer is offering just 5% more than what comps sold for up to 6 months ago, but the bank won't issue a mortgage for that. essentially, the process puts a cap on how much property can appreciate, regardless of market conditions. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just an interesting mechanism.
In a hot market appraised values will generally lag market values, since appraised values are inherently backward looking.

If I am a lender, I view this as a feature, not a bug.

 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs. Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.

 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.
But how do you REALLY feel?

 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.
I don't think urban is a frat boy. :shrug:

 
U.S. Home-Builder Confidence Hits Near-Decade High National Association of Home Builders’ index at highest level since November 2005
By

Anna Louie SussmanThe Wall Street Journal

Updated Aug. 17, 2015 11:59 a.m. ETWASHINGTON—A gauge of home-builder sentiment rose to its highest level since November 2005, reflecting growing confidence in a steadily improving U.S. housing market.

An index of builder confidence in the market for new single-family homes rose one point to a seasonally adjusted level of 61 in August, the National Association of Home Builders said Monday. A reading over 50 means most builders generally see conditions as positive.

The index stood at 60 in July and June. Economists surveyed by The Wall Street Journal expected a reading of 61 in August.

The index has been positive for the past year, following five months in early 2014 when sentiment hovered in negative territory.

“The fact the builder confidence has been in the low 60s for three straight months shows that single-family housing is making slow but steady progress,” said NAHB Chairman Tom Woods, a home builder from Blue Springs, Mo. He added that some home builders reported difficulty accessing land and labor.

In June, sales of existing homes hit their strongest pace since February 2007, the National Association of Realtors said last month. Newly built single-family home sales fell in June by 6.8% to their lowest reading since November 2014, according to Commerce Department data.

”The overall message from the survey…is very upbeat,” wrote Ian Shepherdson, chief economist at Pantheon Macroeconomics, in a client note. “We see nothing here to change our view that a real recovery in the housing market is finally under way.”

Joshua Shapiro,chief U.S. economist at the economic consultancy MFR, Inc., observed that the index’s level was similar to its level in early 2006, when single-family housing starts “were running at over a 1.5 [million] unit rate, or more than twice what they are now.”

“So, there remains a big disconnect between what home builders are saying and what they are actually doing,” he wrote.

The index of builder sentiment began to diverge with single-family housing starts in 2011. The gulf between sentiment, which has skyrocketed, and slowly rising single-family housing starts, has only widened since then.

The July existing-home sales figure will be released Aug. 20, and new-home sales data will be released Aug. 25.

With the Federal Reserve expected to raise interest rates as early as September, economists said potential homeowners are hoping to get into the housing market before mortgage rates rise and mortgages get more expensive.

The labor market has been strengthening, with employers adding an average of 235,000 jobs a month in the past three months. Unemployment is at 5.3%, its lowest level in more than seven years. And as rents have risen in many cities, purchasing a home becomes more appealing for those with the means to do so.

The current-sales component of the index rose this month to 66 from 65 in July. Expectations for sales over the next six months stayed steady at 70. A measure of traffic from prospective buyers rose two points to 45.

The three-month moving average of the builders gauge by region posted gains in August in three out of four areas from the prior month’s revised figures, and the Northeast stayed constant at 46. The West and Midwest each gained three points, to 63 and 58, respectively. The South rose by two points to 63.
 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.
Chicago isn't NYC or SF or even Boston when it comes to density, but let's not act like it's Atlanta or Dallas. For a US city, it's dense.

 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.
I don't think urban is a frat boy. :shrug:
Very fair retort.
 
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
NY is unique in that it's one of a handful of places where international money needs a house. As long as Richard Branson or Middle Eastern oil money wants a place in the U.S. to stay while here for business, NY, LA and maybe SF will be magnets for them to buy.You are probably right that there's a limit but your assumption that the 'market' is primarily New Yorkers is why it feels out of scale. If it was just New Yorkers sure.
and the crazy thing is, international money probably isn't buying into that neighborhood in Brooklyn.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
NY is unique in that it's one of a handful of places where international money needs a house. As long as Richard Branson or Middle Eastern oil money wants a place in the U.S. to stay while here for business, NY, LA and maybe SF will be magnets for them to buy.You are probably right that there's a limit but your assumption that the 'market' is primarily New Yorkers is why it feels out of scale. If it was just New Yorkers sure.
and the crazy thing is, international money probably isn't buying into that neighborhood in Brooklyn.
This

 
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
NY is unique in that it's one of a handful of places where international money needs a house. As long as Richard Branson or Middle Eastern oil money wants a place in the U.S. to stay while here for business, NY, LA and maybe SF will be magnets for them to buy.You are probably right that there's a limit but your assumption that the 'market' is primarily New Yorkers is why it feels out of scale. If it was just New Yorkers sure.
Tons of international money going into nicer areas of Miami as well.

 
If international money floods an area what normally happens is that it pushes the people who actually live/work there out into the surronding areas and then those areas have a ripple effect on the housing prices as those people are already thinking "I have to commute X if I buy this, I don't want to lose out on this and commute Y by buying even further away". The more specific and desirable an area with lot's of economic activity going on then the more this happens. NY is prob the perfect US example of this.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
NY is unique in that it's one of a handful of places where international money needs a house. As long as Richard Branson or Middle Eastern oil money wants a place in the U.S. to stay while here for business, NY, LA and maybe SF will be magnets for them to buy.You are probably right that there's a limit but your assumption that the 'market' is primarily New Yorkers is why it feels out of scale. If it was just New Yorkers sure.
Tons of international money going into nicer areas of Miami as well.
Brazilian money has been propping up the Miami market well ahead of the curve on most markets.

 
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.
I don't think urban is a frat boy. :shrug:
Very fair retort.
Thanks.

And I do agree with you about the frat boy part. I live near Chicago and Ashland and rarely do I venture over to the east side of the Kennedy. I like Evanston, Oak Park and Hyde Park....that probably where I would live I had a family. I also lived in NYC for a couple of years, both Manhattan and Brooklyn. Nothing compares to Manhattan, so no argument there. But there are parts of Chicago's west side or Andersonville that remind me of certain parts of Brooklyn.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
http://streeteasy.com/building/j-condominium

This building is the definition of something terribly wrong in the housing market. Just look at the active listings, you can then view what they sold for just 1-4 years ago. Most of you prob aren't familiar with StreetEasy (owned by Zillow), but they are the main real estate website in the NYC, basically everyone uses them bc their city data is on point.

Go through the appreciation in this building, condos have doubled if not more in less than 3 years. These aren't $200k properties now selling for $400k, these properties were selling for $1.2 and some are now near $2.5-$3M. One bedrooms are going for $1.2-$1.7M.

Even in a wealthy city, it gets to a point where someone earning $400-$500k is starting to get priced out. Idk what causes this stop and I doubt wages are going to catch up soon, but when you get to a point that only a fraction of a fraction of high income earners can afford something, things need to and prob will change.
NY is unique in that it's one of a handful of places where international money needs a house. As long as Richard Branson or Middle Eastern oil money wants a place in the U.S. to stay while here for business, NY, LA and maybe SF will be magnets for them to buy.You are probably right that there's a limit but your assumption that the 'market' is primarily New Yorkers is why it feels out of scale. If it was just New Yorkers sure.
Tons of international money going into nicer areas of Miami as well.
Brazilian money has been propping up the Miami market well ahead of the curve on most markets.
We are doing two projects for international clients around Miami.

 
But there are parts of Chicago's west side or Andersonville that remind me of certain parts of Brooklyn.
The murder-y parts?
it depends.

West Town, Ukrainian Village, Bucktown, Wicker Park and Logan Square are all pretty gentrified at this point, but there's still a fair amount of crime in pockets in those areas, specifically Humboldt Park and then further West.
Those parts might as well be Winnetka compared to the Far West Side!

 
http://streeteasy.com/building/550-vanderbilt-brooklyn#sales

Another example of insanity...

This neighborhood is charging post-gentrification pricing, before the neighborhood has gotten there. The website refers to this area as "Brooklyn's Newest Neighborhood" - Well, that is one way to put it. 2 BR in a half decent neighborhhood at $1,600 a SF, are you serious? The Atlantic Yards is still a decade away from being a family friendly, safe walking after dark area... But they want $1.1M for a 1BR.

Some of this #### is shocking... And amazingly there are people paying it. This is the same pricing (if not more) than most places in Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, and Dumbo (and prob the UES, Battery Park, and a few other Manhattan locations). Who would pay more for a ####tier neighborhood.

2 BR - $1.7M, add on another $2k a month in common charges. It is kinda amazing. Something has to give. There is no to very little international money in this neighborhood.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
urbanhack said:
mr roboto said:
To be fair the only good thing about Chicago is that it is a world class city. But it suck to live in and around it unless you have to.
How many of you whiners live in the city or a neighborhood in the city? If I'm anywhere in the Chicagoland area, I'd much rather live in the city vs the burbs.Now I'm ready to leave Chicago because I want to look out my window and see mountains instead of man made buildings. I'm also ready to the leave the conservative Midwest after living here my entire life. But I'm going to appreciate the diversity and culture while I'm still here.
Lived in the city 6 years. Was in SF and NY before that. Live in Evanston now and have for about 5-6 years. Really like where we live now.....compared to the rest of this metro area.Never liked the city that much. It isn't dense like a real city. Also is populated by a bunch of loud, obnoxious, bumbling, corn-fed, frat boy d-bags.
Not sure where you lived in the city, but having been here you have to know that Chicago is a city of neighborhoods. The most dense neighborhoods are downtown and along the lakefront, primarily Lake Shore Drive and Sheridan Rd. I have lived in the DePaul, Roscoe Village, Lakeview and currently Lincoln Square neighborhoods, all highly livable desirable neighborhoods. I love Lincoln Square. The only place where "frat boy d-bags' have been prevalent has been the DePaul area. My current neighborhood has it's share of hipsters but I don't begrudge folks who line at 9:30 on a Sat morning at the local craft beer joint for the latest brew.

As far as Evanston, it is the only town outside the city limits that I actually think highly of. It has some great streets with some awesome homes. Very cool place. The rest of "Chicagoland", meaning the burbs are basically a wasteland, devoid of virtually any culture or personality. But, that is suburbia in general.

 
btw- Manhattan seems over-run with frat-boy/sorority girl dbags in the last couple of years. and because prices are so high, they have to raft together in 3s to 5s to afford apartments, bringing even more of them here. AND they take away apartments that would normally go to families- because their combined incomes along with daddy's guarantorship allows them to. 40x rent for earnings... 100x for guarantor. headasplode.

 

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