HS girls stage a walkout as trans teen uses girls bathroom (1 Viewer)

[Henry Ford]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints, I have no idea what you're saying with that statement.

I'm saying that there has to be an appreciable, real risk of harm for there to be assault and battery but it depends on how the victim takes it. If a man points an unloaded gun at someone, and the person it is pointed at freaks out, don't they have a right to claim assault? The victim doesn't know it's not loaded.

Are you telling me that the cure here is to tell young girls not to worry if boys (or men for that matter) start undressing in front of them?

Again at what age?

 

[Henry Ford]

Saints, I have no idea what you're saying with that statement.

I'm saying that there has to be an appreciable, real risk of harm for there to be assault and battery but it depends on how the victim takes it. If a man points an unloaded gun at someone, and the person it is pointed at freaks out, don't they have a right to claim assault? The victim doesn't know it's not loaded.

Are you telling me that the cure here is to tell young girls not to worry if boys start undressing in front of them?

Again at what age?

No, the cure is to understand what transgender means with respect to who is a boy and who is a girl.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints, I have no idea what you're saying with that statement.

I'm saying that there has to be an appreciable, real risk of harm for there to be assault and battery but it depends on how the victim takes it. If a man points an unloaded gun at someone, and the person it is pointed at freaks out, don't they have a right to claim assault? The victim doesn't know it's not loaded.

Are you telling me that the cure here is to tell young girls not to worry if boys start undressing in front of them?

Again at what age?

No, the cure is to understand what transgender means with respect to who is a boy and who is a girl.

Ha, sure. Does this definition in any way comprise anatomical reality?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

 

[Henry Ford]

Saints, I have no idea what you're saying with that statement.

I'm saying that there has to be an appreciable, real risk of harm for there to be assault and battery but it depends on how the victim takes it. If a man points an unloaded gun at someone, and the person it is pointed at freaks out, don't they have a right to claim assault? The victim doesn't know it's not loaded.

Are you telling me that the cure here is to tell young girls not to worry if boys start undressing in front of them?

Again at what age?

No, the cure is to understand what transgender means with respect to who is a boy and who is a girl.

Ha, sure. Does this definition in any way comprise anatomical reality?

Read the thread. Then define for me who is a boy and who is a girl, include everyone, and tell me how you'll figure it out for kids and why it matters. And maybe why your definition is better than that of the experts.

 

[Henry Ford]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

 

[sublimeone]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints, I have no idea what you're saying with that statement.

I'm saying that there has to be an appreciable, real risk of harm for there to be assault and battery but it depends on how the victim takes it. If a man points an unloaded gun at someone, and the person it is pointed at freaks out, don't they have a right to claim assault? The victim doesn't know it's not loaded.

Are you telling me that the cure here is to tell young girls not to worry if boys start undressing in front of them?

Again at what age?

No, the cure is to understand what transgender means with respect to who is a boy and who is a girl.

Ha, sure. Does this definition in any way comprise anatomical reality?

Read the thread. Then define for me who is a boy and who is a girl, include everyone, and tell me how you'll figure it out for kids and why it matters. And maybe why your definition is better than that of the experts.

I agree I haven't been in the thread (and I hope to exit it now actually...) but I think you're talking redefining societal norms and reeducating on mores of the youngest children by definition. I think that alone creates a too high bar for justifying this.

 

[Henry Ford]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

 

[Henry Ford]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

 

[sublimeone]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

I'm asking your opinion. Do children have this right?

 

[Henry Ford]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

I'm asking your opinion. Do children have this right?

And you have to clarify what you mean by "right." People mean different things by this. There are rights meaning "I can't be arrested for this" and rights meaning "I am allowed to do this no matter what others think.". Children generally have the right to not be arrested for sexual activity barring some other offense (sexual battery, a crime defined by difference in age, other incapacity, etc.) But they don't have the right to do it that's a protected right - they can be punished, stopped by parents and other adult family members, etc.

 

[Eminence]

I'm curious as to whether or not Henry Ford has biological children. It seems crazy to advocate the rights of a particular group of people with a mental disorder so passionately without having a legitimate personal attachment to it.

 

[jonessed]

Identifying as transgender can be a pretty loose claim. Was there any guidance on how long someone has to identify as transgender to use the bathroom/locker facilities of the opposite sex? One year? One week? 10 minutes?

 

[sublimeone]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

I'm asking your opinion. Do children have this right?

And you have to clarify what you mean by "right." People mean different things by this. There are rights meaning "I can't be arrested for this" and rights meaning "I am allowed to do this no matter what others think.". Children generally have the right to not be arrested for sexual activity barring some other offense (sexual battery, a crime defined by difference in age, other incapacity, etc.) But they don't have the right to do it that's a protected right - they can be punished, stopped by parents and other adult family members, etc.

should it be a protected right, in your opinion? Why or why not?

 

[Henry Ford]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

I'm asking your opinion. Do children have this right?

And you have to clarify what you mean by "right." People mean different things by this. There are rights meaning "I can't be arrested for this" and rights meaning "I am allowed to do this no matter what others think.". Children generally have the right to not be arrested for sexual activity barring some other offense (sexual battery, a crime defined by difference in age, other incapacity, etc.) But they don't have the right to do it that's a protected right - they can be punished, stopped by parents and other adult family members, etc.

should it be a protected right, in your opinion? Why or why not?

Why do you care who children are allowed to have sex with? Or my opinion on it? Why are so many people opposed to transgender rights so obsessed with childrens' sexual activity when it's such a miniscule - if even existent - part of gender identity?

 

[pecorino]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

 

[Henry Ford]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

 

[sublimeone]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

I'm asking your opinion. Do children have this right?

And you have to clarify what you mean by "right." People mean different things by this. There are rights meaning "I can't be arrested for this" and rights meaning "I am allowed to do this no matter what others think.". Children generally have the right to not be arrested for sexual activity barring some other offense (sexual battery, a crime defined by difference in age, other incapacity, etc.) But they don't have the right to do it that's a protected right - they can be punished, stopped by parents and other adult family members, etc.

should it be a protected right, in your opinion? Why or why not?

Why do you care who children are allowed to have sex with? Or my opinion on it? Why are so many people opposed to transgender rights so obsessed with childrens' sexual activity when it's such a miniscule - if even existent - part of gender identity?

I'm just asking your opinion. You've stated your opinion on everything else in this thread. Why deflect on this one?

 

[dparker713]

Pretty sure that requires intent, which makes it irrelevant to this discussion. Hence the options in my statement.

Specific intent. The person is intending to enter the lockerroom, are they not?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

Let's recall when the Constitution was deemed to grant this claim. I think it was Patrick Henry, who shouted to the heavens, "Give transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom or give me death!"

Great moments in American history.

I do recall something about sometheingdemocracysomething or other and the idea that people might actually get together in congress (little 'c') and vote on things like this. You know like a school board. The right to vote by adults is an actual right.

 

[dparker713]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

Fascinating how women and girls fought for the right to vote, to own property, to go to war... but they have lost the right or even the discretion or capacity to control who comes into their bathroom.

 

[Henry Ford]

Henry, I've come across some arguments advocating for the sexual rights of children, to among other things, have the right to engage in sexual activities with adults. What's your stance on this? I assume you're not an advocate of this sort of thing but I'm just curious if you have a unique take on this as well.

Children aren't the ones engaging in criminal activity when that happens. It's the adults who don't have the right to engage in that activity.

What if it's 2 children? In your opinion, do the children have the right to engage with each other?

:checkswatch:

Sorry, missed this. Ate you asking if children should be arrested for having sex with each other, or if they have some sort of constitutional right to have sex? Either is a weird question.

I'm asking your opinion. Do children have this right?

And you have to clarify what you mean by "right." People mean different things by this. There are rights meaning "I can't be arrested for this" and rights meaning "I am allowed to do this no matter what others think.". Children generally have the right to not be arrested for sexual activity barring some other offense (sexual battery, a crime defined by difference in age, other incapacity, etc.) But they don't have the right to do it that's a protected right - they can be punished, stopped by parents and other adult family members, etc.

should it be a protected right, in your opinion? Why or why not?

Why do you care who children are allowed to have sex with? Or my opinion on it? Why are so many people opposed to transgender rights so obsessed with childrens' sexual activity when it's such a miniscule - if even existent - part of gender identity?

I'm just asking your opinion. You've stated your opinion on everything else in this thread. Why deflect on this one?

I'm not deflecting, I just haven't got an answer for you. I don't have an opinion as to whether children should have a protected right to have sex with each other.

 

[Henry Ford]

Pretty sure that requires intent, which makes it irrelevant to this discussion. Hence the options in my statement.

Specific intent. The person is intending to enter the lockerroom, are they not?

Is entry to a locker room considered assault in your state, counselor?

 

[Henry Ford]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

You seem to have a view of the right to privacy that's oddly dependent on the shape of a person's genitals.

 

[Henry Ford]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

Let's recall when the Constitution was deemed to grant this claim. I think it was Patrick Henry, who shouted to the heavens, "Give transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom or give me death!"

Great moments in American history.

I do recall something about sometheingdemocracysomething or other and the idea that people might actually get together in congress (little 'c') and vote on things like this. You know like a school board. The right to vote by adults is an actual right.

Voting? Like the 14th Amendment and Title IX? I think they passed.

 

[sublimeone]

Henry, in your opinion, should a person have the right to walk down the street naked?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

Let's recall when the Constitution was deemed to grant this claim. I think it was Patrick Henry, who shouted to the heavens, "Give transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom or give me death!"

Great moments in American history.

I do recall something about sometheingdemocracysomething or other and the idea that people might actually get together in congress (little 'c') and vote on things like this. You know like a school board. The right to vote by adults is an actual right.

Voting? Like the 14th Amendment and Title IX? I think they passed.

Right for race and women.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm going to call my school board and see if they'll vote to eradicate the 1st Amendment. I can't imagine that should be problematic in any way. Thanks, guys.

 

[Henry Ford]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

Let's recall when the Constitution was deemed to grant this claim. I think it was Patrick Henry, who shouted to the heavens, "Give transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom or give me death!"

Great moments in American history.

I do recall something about sometheingdemocracysomething or other and the idea that people might actually get together in congress (little 'c') and vote on things like this. You know like a school board. The right to vote by adults is an actual right.

Voting? Like the 14th Amendment and Title IX? I think they passed.

Right for race and women.

Sorry, Scalia. Not so much.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm going to call my school board and see if they'll vote to eradicate the 1st Amendment. I can't imagine that should be problematic in any way. Thanks, guys.

School boards are a democratic means by which people come together to decide what is best for their children and their education. You have to arch laws, rights and protections for race and women to include people not of a race or that gender but pretending to be to supersede that.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

Let's recall when the Constitution was deemed to grant this claim. I think it was Patrick Henry, who shouted to the heavens, "Give transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom or give me death!"

Great moments in American history.

I do recall something about sometheingdemocracysomething or other and the idea that people might actually get together in congress (little 'c') and vote on things like this. You know like a school board. The right to vote by adults is an actual right.

Voting? Like the 14th Amendment and Title IX? I think they passed.

Right for race and women.

Sorry, Scalia. Not so much.

I think we can look further back than him. That's not really controversial.

 

[Henry Ford]

Henry, in your opinion, should a person have the right to walk down the street naked?

Like, do I think we should get rid of the host of laws that make that illegal? I don't have an opinion on that issue, man, and it's an argument not worth having. There are laws against it. Unlike this.

 

[Henry Ford]

Still hard at work and don't anticipate taking more breaks before bed, but I'll be happy to get back to this tomorrow. Always a pleasure in here.

 

[sublimeone]

Henry, in your opinion, should a person have the right to walk down the street naked?

Like, do I think we should get rid of the host of laws that make that illegal? I don't have an opinion on that issue, man, and it's an argument not worth having. There are laws against it. Unlike this.

I'm not looking to argue it. I'm just interested in your opinion. Should a person have that right?

 

[Politician Spock]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

It's not a private room.

 

[dparker713]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

You seem to have a view of the right to privacy that's oddly dependent on the shape of a person's genitals.

I think its rather reasonable to expect a limited right to privacy in any changing area that's not in a prison or lockup.

 

[dparker713]

Pretty sure that requires intent, which makes it irrelevant to this discussion. Hence the options in my statement.

Specific intent. The person is intending to enter the lockerroom, are they not?

Is entry to a locker room considered assault in your state, counselor?

I could certainly make a hypothetical where it'd atleast be a colorable charge.

 

[dparker713]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

It's not a private room.

Is it open to the public?

 

[Road Warriors]

Another one in Chicago, student being allowed to use the locker room.

https://www.yahoo.com/health/illinois-school-district-must-give-locker-room-123444494.html

Like to know how the girls in that school feel about it.

One judge to a whole district: your daughters have to look at male genitalia in the locker room and shower, whether you or they like it or not.

And the people have no say on it either, not the school board, not the PTA, not the students, not the parents, not the legislature.

Why? Is there some female vision magnet attached to male genitalia? Are girls incapable of not looking at this kid's genitals?

How stupid is this. What if he wants to look at theirs? Amd ou think girls now have to go through the process of not looking at this kid entirely? Are they looking at the ceiling and the walls and the locker so as to not see what they don't want to see? The transgender aspect becomes ridiculous in that scenario, you might as well get rid of that fig leaf altogether and just try to argue why a man shouldn't be allowed to walk into any woman's bathroom?

Why would she want to look at theirs?

Transgender lesbian?

 

[John Bender]

Oh good, this thread is back

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

It's a public vote. In a few years, we can look back and see if anyone's embarrassed about which side of this vote he or she was on. What do you say?

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Meantime, here's the position of the United States on the appeal:

Link

I did not realize I had not voted.

 

[Henry Ford]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

You seem to have a view of the right to privacy that's oddly dependent on the shape of a person's genitals.

I think its rather reasonable to expect a limited right to privacy in any changing area that's not in a prison or lockup.

There is a reasonable expectation of limited privacy. It doesn't include right to privacy from other girls, even if their birth certificates don't acknowledge that they're girls.It does include an expectation of privacy from webcams. Like all public restrooms do.

 

[Henry Ford]

Pretty sure that requires intent, which makes it irrelevant to this discussion. Hence the options in my statement.

Specific intent. The person is intending to enter the lockerroom, are they not?

Is entry to a locker room considered assault in your state, counselor?

I could certainly make a hypothetical where it'd atleast be a colorable charge.

Is it the hypothetical where a transgender girl goes it to change her clothes before gym class? Because otherwise it's not really on point.

 

[Hang 10]

So has this question been answered and I just missed it: Don't non-transgender girls have the right to have access to a locker room where penises, even ones attached to transgender boys who identify as girls, are forbidden? Seems to me that as adults we should honor that, especially considering that some girls may be reluctant to speak up for fear of being seen as insensitive or politically incorrect. If I understand the recent ruling (and likely don't) I believe such a common sense right, in my opinion, does not exist anymore.

I don't believe that "right" ever existed.

You seem to have an oddly narrow view of the right to privacy.

You seem to have a view of the right to privacy that's oddly dependent on the shape of a person's genitals.

I think its rather reasonable to expect a limited right to privacy in any changing area that's not in a prison or lockup.

There is a reasonable expectation of limited privacy. It doesn't include right to privacy from other girls, even if their birth certificates don't acknowledge that they're girls.It does include an expectation of privacy from webcams. Like all public restrooms do.

 

[Clifford]

Is the prime question whether or not all of society has to treat transgender as their identified gender?

I think the prime question is whether state actors have to allow transgender people to live as their identified gender, with all the benefits and privileges that entails.

Seems they have a responsibility to two distinct and conflicting parties. Natural born men and women who desire privacy from the other gender in bathrooms and locker rooms, and people who identify with the opposite gender who desire to be treated as their identity as you identify above.

Reason I mention society is unless the first group recognizes the identified gender as actual gender (IE a woman who identifies as a man IS a man, therefore not a violation of first groups right to privacy) the two desires are in conflict, and it becomes a conflict that becomes a burden on the state (EG building gender-neutral bathrooms at cost for a population whose size does not dictate need for a third bathroom/locker room)

Sure all this has been discussed before though.

Personally I think if you go through a gender change you should be aware that by doing so you are going to make certain facets of life more difficult and not expect the state or society to automatically accomodate your choice at a cost to itself.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If the kid commits an assault in the locker room, that's a crime that should be investigated and prosecuted. Changing clothes isn't assault or battery.

That's a hell of a defense for any Peeping Tom, isn't it? 'Hey yerhoner dropping trau ain't no crime, she just can't appreciate my rights.'

You folks sure do like to equate transgender people to sex crimes, don't you?

I don't see a "you" vs "us" vs "them" rubric here, Henry. I think of us all being in the same body public.

Oh, sorry, I meant people who want to deny transgender students the right to use their chosen genders' bathroom. "You."

Perhaps if we stopped using the word "chosen" it would be helpful. That word makes it seem like this can be done on a whim (although it could also be thoughtful) or that the choice could change again.