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I love and hate high school sports (1 Viewer)

SHIZNITTTT

Footballguy
So today one of my twins made the "Diamond League Team" for his high school baseball team.  Around 90 kids were at the tryout and it is ultra competitive (the team is only 14 players).   Was so happy to hear that my son made the team, but on the other hand was very sad to hear many of his friends did not.  As most sports parents understand you get to know the other kids and their parents from playing with and against them.   We have experienced first hand when our son made the Little League World Series team that represented Oklahoma at age 11 and not making it at age 12.  So hard to be super excited and sad at the same time.   Youth / High School sports suck sometimes.   

 
So today one of my twins made the "Diamond League Team" for his high school baseball team.  Around 90 kids were at the tryout and it is ultra competitive (the team is only 14 players).   Was so happy to hear that my son made the team, but on the other hand was very sad to hear many of his friends did not.  As most sports parents understand you get to know the other kids and their parents from playing with and against them.   We have experienced first hand when our son made the Little League World Series team that represented Oklahoma at age 11 and not making it at age 12.  So hard to be super excited and sad at the same time.   Youth / High School sports suck sometimes.   
Thought you were going to reference this, which I thought made some interesting arguments:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/

 
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Congrats.

I bet it is bitter sweet but such is life. They'll be pulling for you and if they are bitter towards you even better, um you get to prune people you dont need in your life.

 
Congrats to your son on his achievement! But that’s life, and a good lesson to learn for the future. And it’s not just high school sports. Not everyone who tries out makes the high school musical or gets a speaking part. Not everyone makes the Academic Decathlon team. Or is elected to student government. Or makes the select orchestra. Working hard toward a goal that you may or may not achieve teaches you perseverance and the value of hard work, and in some cases, how to cope with disappointment. All tools that will help you succeed in life. 

 
With my kids playing club soccer, and having spoken with other parents of kids in other sports, it’s amazing how poor the quality of hs sports is. For sports without club, obviously hs is all there is. But man it can be painful comparatively watching basketball, baseball, or soccer.

With that said, playing high school means the world to my kids.

 
With my kids playing club soccer, and having spoken with other parents of kids in other sports, it’s amazing how poor the quality of hs sports is. For sports without club, obviously hs is all there is. But man it can be painful comparatively watching basketball, baseball, or soccer.

With that said, playing high school means the world to my kids.
In our area, a lot of clubs don’t even allow you to play HS.

 
In our area, a lot of clubs don’t even allow you to play HS.
In Ohio, you can play club when the high school season is complete. So soccer is a fall sport, kids play club in spring. I know other states allow both to go on at the same time though - there’s no consistency between states.

 
In our area, a lot of clubs don’t even allow you to play HS.
Around here, the clubs shut down during HS season.  The top players seem to enjoy playing for their school team, but for a lot it's like an offseason. One of the best soccer players I had as a student would go for a five-mile run after school team practice - she said her body didn't feel like it was done working out at the end of school team practice compared to her club team workouts, and she had trouble getting to sleep unless she finished off the workout herself with some roadwork.     

 
In Ohio, you can play club when the high school season is complete. So soccer is a fall sport, kids play club in spring. I know other states allow both to go on at the same time though - there’s no consistency between states.
I shouldn’t have said a lot categorically don’t let you play HS. But the highest competition levels at club make it difficult to do so. So in soccer, it is not uncommon for the best 2-3 players at a high school not to play on their high school team. I knew a kid who was so good that the HS team allowed him to play when he was able to make it. The HS team made the playoffs that year and he couldn’t play in the playoff match because he had a club game.

 
It is crazy how ultra-competitive sports have become since I attended high school.  Kids are playing in "select leagues" that are invitation only, and taking private pitching, hitting, fielding along with speed and agility training.   The kids play two to three games per week during the season which is league ball and play tournaments on the weekends Fri, Sat, Sun which can be as few as three games and as many as seven with 5 or six of those games played on Sunday.  Sunday games when school is still open is insane.  Kids don't finish playing their tournaments till 10pm or later and then you have drive all the way home from Texas, Kansas, Arkansas or bum #### Egypt.   The financial cost?  Gas, Hotels, Meals, fees, lesson fees, equipment.   

YEAH WE MADE THE TEAM              :kicksrock:

 
I live in a very small town so it has it's good and bad regarding sports teams. I love having my kids go to school where if they want to participate in any extra curricular activity all they have to do is to want to do it. Frankly, we are starving for high enough participation numbers in just about everything. The bad news is that we are starving for getting enough participants in school activities so it means things like shifting from the normal football to 8 man football, having to drive long distances for meets, combining with other local schools for some activities. I still wouldn't trade it for anything. I'm all for my kids being able to participate in whatever they would like and not having to make a team. They are also more rounded because they are encouraged to not focus on one sport but instead take part in a sport each season. There are a few very elite athletes in one sport that do focus on that sport with the idea of continuing onto college in that sport but for most of the kids they put away the football cleats or volleyball shoes at the end of fall and put on their basketball shoes or wrestling shoes. I love that they are busy year round participating in multiple sports. Happy to be in small town America.

 
I can pull 4 real-life examples from what I went through with my son:

1. My son: by the time he got to HS, he was basically a 2-sport kid: soccer and baseball.  He told me he didn't want to try out for the soccer team because he didn't like the game enough to do all that work and spend most of his time on the bench.  That sounded a little selfish to me at first, but I respected his decision. He played on a showcase team the summers before his junior and senior years, then went on to make 2nd team all-county as a junior and first team all-county as a senior. I've said in other threads and will repeat here that it's more about the memories and experiences he got to have than it is about any financial/college return on investment, but it also worked out that he won some accolades along the way.

2. Another boy that was a year behind my son but played on his travel ball team until HS. Played on a different showcase team that was more a moneygrab than anything else, was a career backup player once he got to HS but between his perseverance and a mother that somehow was the team mom on every level he played and not quite made everything about them, he drew the interest of one of the local community college coaches and has committed to playing there next year.

3. Another boy that was also a year behind my son but didn't go the travel route, as his dad always shut things down by the 4th of July.  His dad had also played varsity baseball at the same HS, so he felt he was keeping a level head about him through this whole process.  The boy was a good worker and blessed with good size and speed, enough that he became the first OF sub off the bench as a junior and a starter as a senior.  I don't know if he's interested in playing in college, but IMO he could if he wanted to.

4. This boy graduated the same year as my son, but played on a rival HS team.  He had a lot of talent, played for arguably the highest-profile showcase team in the area and was drafted in last Spring's draft (good thing for him, as his D1 scholarship was retracted because of his grades).  While he has so many things working in his favor, what may work against him at the next level is that he couldn't have cared less about his HS team yet acted like a prima donna to the point where he quit the team because the coach called him out on his lack of effort.  At the time, they were in the thick of the race for the county title, but then dropped the next 2 games by a combined score in the neighborhood of 30-0 after handily beating both of those same teams earlier in the year. Normally I don't want to wish harm to 18-19 year olds, but in this case, I hope his poor attitude comes back to bite him in the behind.

In the case of my son and probably boy #4, both of them had enough talent that they would have done well in HS even without playing on their showcase teams, but other than the difference in raw talent, the biggest difference is that my son cared about representing his school on the ballfield, and I think there are kids like him in most sports who feel that club/travel ball maximizes their ability to represent their school, so that is their justification.

It's tough to talk about boy #2 because we've known him and his mother (and equally involved grandmother) for a long time and know that they mean well, but to me they're a classic example of the type of people that get preyed upon by the wrong folks in the youth sports business.  While he has some talent, it's never been enough to where he's been able to really distinguish himself, and as bad as it is for me to say, his mother's (over)involvement probably kept him around instead of his ability.

Boy #3 is to me the crux of the whole youth sports agony; he clearly had above average ability and it got him as far as most kids could hope for--a starting spot on the varsity--but we are left to wonder how much better he could have been if he had played more, and in the hands of coaches who could have developed him more.  There definitely could have been more doors open for him as a result of being more high-profile, but would they have been doors he would have wanted to open?

I guess I've rambled up to this point, but to me, these 4 examples illustrate that there is no one right and wrong point of view when it comes to youth/HS sports, other than the OP's point about the pain of wishing all the kids could succeed together, especially the ones you've watched and come to know over years of watching them play.  

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Thought you were going to reference this, which I thought made some interesting arguments:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/the-case-against-high-school-sports/309447/
That story really resonated with me when I first read it and I haven't changed my opinion since then. My favorite part was how the Premont guys took the $400k that other schools had raised for them (to reinstate sports) and spent it on renovating the science labs.

 
That story really resonated with me when I first read it and I haven't changed my opinion since then. My favorite part was how the Premont guys took the $400k that other schools had raised for them (to reinstate sports) and spent it on renovating the science labs.
One has to think there's a better way. Texas public schools are not in pristine shape to the point where a $72mm football stadium makes sense on any level.

 
I can pull 4 real-life examples from what I went through with my son:

1. My son: by the time he got to HS, he was basically a 2-sport kid: soccer and baseball.  He told me he didn't want to try out for the soccer team because he didn't like the game enough to do all that work and spend most of his time on the bench.  That sounded a little selfish to me at first, but I respected his decision. He played on a showcase team the summers before his junior and senior years, then went on to make 2nd team all-county as a junior and first team all-county as a senior. I've said in other threads and will repeat here that it's more about the memories and experiences he got to have than it is about any financial/college return on investment, but it also worked out that he won some accolades along the way.

2. Another boy that was a year behind my son but played on his travel ball team until HS. Played on a different showcase team that was more a moneygrab than anything else, was a career backup player once he got to HS but between his perseverance and a mother that somehow was the team mom on every level he played and not quite made everything about them, he drew the interest of one of the local community college coaches and has committed to playing there next year.

3. Another boy that was also a year behind my son but didn't go the travel route, as his dad always shut things down by the 4th of July.  His dad had also played varsity baseball at the same HS, so he felt he was keeping a level head about him through this whole process.  The boy was a good worker and blessed with good size and speed, enough that he became the first OF sub off the bench as a junior and a starter as a senior.  I don't know if he's interested in playing in college, but IMO he could if he wanted to.

4. This boy graduated the same year as my son, but played on a rival HS team.  He had a lot of talent, played for arguably the highest-profile showcase team in the area and was drafted in last Spring's draft (good thing for him, as his D1 scholarship was retracted because of his grades).  While he has so many things working in his favor, what may work against him at the next level is that he couldn't have cared less about his HS team yet acted like a prima donna to the point where he quit the team because the coach called him out on his lack of effort.  At the time, they were in the thick of the race for the county title, but then dropped the next 2 games by a combined score in the neighborhood of 30-0 after handily beating both of those same teams earlier in the year. Normally I don't want to wish harm to 18-19 year olds, but in this case, I hope his poor attitude comes back to bite him in the behind.

In the case of my son and probably boy #4, both of them had enough talent that they would have done well in HS even without playing on their showcase teams, but other than the difference in raw talent, the biggest difference is that my son cared about representing his school on the ballfield, and I think there are kids like him in most sports who feel that club/travel ball maximizes their ability to represent their school, so that is their justification.

It's tough to talk about boy #2 because we've known him and his mother (and equally involved grandmother) for a long time and know that they mean well, but to me they're a classic example of the type of people that get preyed upon by the wrong folks in the youth sports business.  While he has some talent, it's never been enough to where he's been able to really distinguish himself, and as bad as it is for me to say, his mother's (over)involvement probably kept him around instead of his ability.

Boy #3 is to me the crux of the whole youth sports agony; he clearly had above average ability and it got him as far as most kids could hope for--a starting spot on the varsity--but we are left to wonder how much better he could have been if he had played more, and in the hands of coaches who could have developed him more.  There definitely could have been more doors open for him as a result of being more high-profile, but would they have been doors he would have wanted to open?

I guess I've rambled up to this point, but to me, these 4 examples illustrate that there is no one right and wrong point of view when it comes to youth/HS sports, other than the OP's point about the pain of wishing all the kids could succeed together, especially the ones you've watched and come to know over years of watching them play.  
I might hit you up for more information about "showcase" teams.  My son has been asked by several different coaches about showcase, and I know that a lot of them are for the money only.   Crazy.   Tough to tell which are legit and which are money grabs.  

 
I might hit you up for more information about "showcase" teams.  My son has been asked by several different coaches about showcase, and I know that a lot of them are for the money only.   Crazy.   Tough to tell which are legit and which are money grabs.  
I'm sure the teams and details vary from place to place, but my general take on showcase teams is that they should be one piece of the puzzle as far as getting in front of the 'right' eyes. On one hand, the showcase team my son played for in HS was a small fish in a big pond when they went to the bigger tournaments, and my gut feeling on showcase tournaments is that IF scouts show up, they're looking for that one needle in a haystack player that they already are aware of anyway. On the other hand, we also got the best guidance and instruction that made playing for that team worthwhile.  Their advice was to be realistic when considering schools where you'd like to play ball, and do a lot of legwork on your own as well, i.e., contacting the school's coach directly and going to their camps. Actually, that is probably even more important than being on a showcase team. The 'real' benefit of playing on a showcase team is the level of competition, which is absolutely a great way to get better, even if it means getting beat more often than not.

Sorry, I know you said 'might' but this is the one thing I feel I can speak relatively accurately about.  Anyway, the bottom line--and this is going to sound stupid, but--if your kid is good, the offers will come, and TBH, what catches their eyes most are the physical tools, especially speed.  The scouts want speed, power and velocity: the sub-7 second 60, 90+ mph fastball and the ability to hit 400' bombs. Everything else is background noise to them. I can't say playing on a showcase team is a must, but there are benefits to it.  

 
bigbottom said:
I shouldn’t have said a lot categorically don’t let you play HS. But the highest competition levels at club make it difficult to do so. So in soccer, it is not uncommon for the best 2-3 players at a high school not to play on their high school team. I knew a kid who was so good that the HS team allowed him to play when he was able to make it. The HS team made the playoffs that year and he couldn’t play in the playoff match because he had a club game.
Ah yes, you’re right. A lot of cities now have development academies (DA) where you commit to not playing high school. And some non-DA clubs do that as well. My daughter is happy to play hs. 

And she’s gotten mid-level D1 unofficial visits (she’s a freshman) so I think in the end I’m glad she has gotten the hs experience while still achieving her goals of likely playing D1.

 

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