I LOVE Elizabeth Warren: All aboard - WOO WOO!!! (3 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

I do not see a good reason why Penn and Harvard should change her enithicity from Caucasian to American Indian shortly after hiring her unless it helped them to meet a diversity goal.  Sure, I buy that they would have hired Warren anyway.  Maybe they figured out she is part Indian on their own after they tossed the kit at her arm when she walked to class.

Organizations do like to brag about that stuff. That's modern life.

 

[Underachievers]

????.....this kind of backfired on Pocahontas.  Now even more people are laughing at her.   She would have been better off just leaving it be.

 

[NFL2DF]

I disagree, but that is okay and I think it was smart of her turn this issue around and have science on her side.

You can't be serious.

Again, some of you may want to brush up on what 1/1024 means before you start playing your "race card" or "science card".

 

[timschochet]

????.....this kind of backfired on Pocahontas.  Now even more people are laughing at her.   She would have been better off just leaving it be.

Anyone who calls Elizabeth Warren “Pocohontas” is a troll. That was true before today and it’s true now. 

I agree she shouldn’t have done it. But there’s no more people laughing at her; just the same losers as before. 

 

[NFL2DF]

I never thought any of this was disqualifying or anything like that, and I more or less dropped this line of criticism when Trump picked it up.  In a vacuum, I think this is the sort of thing that she deserves to be the butt of jokes over, but that's about it.

According to half a dozen posters in this thread you are now officially a Racist.

Congrats.

 

[Sweet J]

I work in Indian Country (this is a term of art generally accepted by tribes and tribal members).  Most of my co-workers are tribal members, of one tribe or another.  I used to practice Indian law.  Although it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what I used to know.  Many of my good friends grew up on a reservation.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  The laws related to tribes, tribal members, and the relationship between them and the U.S. government is incredibly complex.  Lots of rules don't make sense.  

2.  There is a long and painful history with respect to the Trust relationship the government has with Tribes and Tribal members.  For example, many folks in Indian Country feel strongly that the U.S. MUST honor all of the trust duties that it has taken on (including, but not limited to, treaty obligations).  Many of the trust duties don't actually show up in treaties, but are a result of a complicated interpretation of common law trust relationships.  In short:  Tribes want autonomy and self determination and sovereignty, but they also want the U.S. to continue providing the support it pledged 100 years ago.  Sometimes these concepts are at odds.

The above doesn't really have much to do with the Warren situation.  What does is:

3.  The U.S. government does not consider you a federally recognized member of a federally recognized Tribe unless the tribe so recognizes you.  In very simplified terms: you aren't "Indian" in the government's eyes unless you are a member of a federally recognized tribe (there are some weird things going on where a tribe is recognized by a state, but not the feds, such as the Lumbee in N.C., but we'll leave that aside for now).

4.  The reason for the above, essentially, is that being a member of a tribe is not about "race," but rather "citizenship."  The idea of taking a DNA test to "prove" your citizenship into a tribe is almost laughable. 

5.  Most tribes have some sort of "blood quantum" requirement.  In those tribes, you need to be able to trace your lineage directly to someone on the original tribal rolls.  I've had friends who have had crappy situations because they may be 1/2 Tribe A, 1/4 Tribe B, and 1/4 Tribe C, and there spouse would be similarly situated. With one of my friends, her kids can be enrolled members of her tribe because they don't have the adequate "blood quantum" for that Tribe, even thought the kids themselves may be like 75% "Indian blood."  It's just a weird situation. 

6.  All of this is to say that, I'm a HUGE Warren fan, in terms of policy, gumption, feistyness, everything.  But I'm kind of mad about her claiming Indian blood.  Should it disqualify her for running for president?  I don't know.  Maybe. Because it's stupid.  As a country we have crapped on Indians for the last 400 years.  If my great great great grandmother was from Africa, but I was raised as a white kid from the suburbs, I'd feel stupid listing "black" on my website somewhere.  In fact, my kid sisters have a different father than me, and their father was clearly considered black or African American.  But they look white and were raised as white kids.  They wouldn't think of trying to call themselves black on a job application.

7.  TL;DR -- As much as I love Warren, I think she kind of sucks for identifying as part Native American, especially if it was based on "family lore." 

 

[timschochet]

According to half a dozen posters in this thread you are now officially a Racist.

Congrats.

Look, if Native Americans tell you that they find it offensive when you call Warren “Pocohontas”, why wouldn’t you take that seriously? 

 

[timschochet]

I work in Indian Country (this is a term of art generally accepted by tribes and tribal members).  Most of my co-workers are tribal members, of one tribe or another.  I used to practice Indian law.  Although it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what I used to know.  Many of my good friends grew up on a reservation.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  The laws related to tribes, tribal members, and the relationship between them and the U.S. government is incredibly complex.  Lots of rules don't make sense.  

2.  There is a long and painful history with respect to the Trust relationship the government has with Tribes and Tribal members.  For example, many folks in Indian Country feel strongly that the U.S. MUST honor all of the trust duties that it has taken on (including, but not limited to, treaty obligations).  Many of the trust duties don't actually show up in treaties, but are a result of a complicated interpretation of common law trust relationships.  In short:  Tribes want autonomy and self determination and sovereignty, but they also want the U.S. to continue providing the support it pledged 100 years ago.  Sometimes these concepts are at odds.

The above doesn't really have much to do with the Warren situation.  What does is:

3.  The U.S. government does not consider you a federally recognized member of a federally recognized Tribe unless the tribe so recognizes you.  In very simplified terms: you aren't "Indian" in the government's eyes unless you are a member of a federally recognized tribe (there are some weird things going on where a tribe is recognized by a state, but not the feds, such as the Lumbee in N.C., but we'll leave that aside for now).

4.  The reason for the above, essentially, is that being a member of a tribe is not about "race," but rather "citizenship."  The idea of taking a DNA test to "prove" your citizenship into a tribe is almost laughable. 

5.  Most tribes have some sort of "blood quantum" requirement.  In those tribes, you need to be able to trace your lineage directly to someone on the original tribal rolls.  I've had friends who have had crappy situations because they may be 1/2 Tribe A, 1/4 Tribe B, and 1/4 Tribe C, and there spouse would be similarly situated. With one of my friends, her kids can be enrolled members of her tribe because they don't have the adequate "blood quantum" for that Tribe, even thought the kids themselves may be like 75% "Indian blood."  It's just a weird situation. 

6.  All of this is to say that, I'm a HUGE Warren fan, in terms of policy, gumption, feistyness, everything.  But I'm kind of mad about her claiming Indian blood.  Should it disqualify her for running for president?  I don't know.  Maybe. Because it's stupid.  As a country we have crapped on Indians for the last 400 years.  If my great great great grandmother was from Africa, but I was raised as a white kid from the suburbs, I'd feel stupid listing "black" on my website somewhere.  In fact, my kid sisters have a different father than me, and their father was clearly considered black or African American.  But they look white and were raised as white kids.  They wouldn't think of trying to call themselves black on a job application.

7.  TL;DR -- As much as I love Warren, I think she kind of sucks for identifying as part Native American, especially if it was based on "family lore." 

This is a legitimate complaint. It’s far different from claiming that she made it up and it’s far different from calling her Pocohontas. 

 

[Sweet J]

And you want to figure out it doesn't matter. She did enough to prove she didn't lie about a family story and Trump looks petty. 

I don't think there was any doubt that there was a family story.  Hell, I know a TON of people who claim "Cherokee blood."  But that's where it should have stayed, as a family story.  If she listed Native American ancestry anywhere on her bio, she probably deserves to get called out for it.

In my opinion, this alone should probably disqualify her for president.  Sorry.

 

[NCCommish]

I don't think there was any doubt that there was a family story.  Hell, I know a TON of people who claim "Cherokee blood."  But that's where it should have stayed, as a family story.  If she listed Native American ancestry anywhere on her bio, she probably deserves to get called out for it.

In my opinion, this alone should probably disqualify her for president.  Sorry.

No need to apologize to me i don't want her to run. 

 

[timschochet]

Plus, I don’t believe that anyone who calls Warren by that name gives a crap about Native Americans or their concerns. 

 

[the moops]

According to half a dozen posters in this thread you are now officially a Racist.

Congrats.

We all know Ivan well enough that his joke wouldn't include calling her Pocohontas. 

 

[squistion]

Ben Shapiro never fails to disappoint. Got a twofer here, bashing both Warren and the transgender community in the same Tweet:

Ben Shapiro‏ @benshapiro 5h5 hours ago

So now we have learned from the media that having a Native American great-great-great-great-great-grandparent makes you Native American, but that having two X chromosomes does not make you a woman.

 

[Sweet J]

Plus, I don’t believe that anyone who calls Warren by that name gives a crap about Native Americans or their concerns. 

Oh, I agree that calling her "Pocahontas" is incredibly offensive.  Both to her and to Naive Americans.  Using the term "Pocahontas" as a derisive term is a pretty crappy and indefensible thing to do.  Add it to the others, I guess. 

 

[Skoo]

Ben Shapiro never fails to disappoint. Got a twofer here, bashing both Warren and the transgender community in the same Tweet:

Ben Shapiro‏ @benshapiro 5h5 hours ago

So now we have learned from the media that having a Native American great-great-great-great-great-grandparent makes you Native American, but that having two X chromosomes does not make you a woman.

The right knows that waging a culture war is the only way they stay in power.

To their credit, it's been working.

 

[Sam Quentin]

She is finished politically

at best six generations ago:

- does not qualify you for preferential treatment

- puts the lie to he gig grandma stories

- only puts her at 1.68% at best

her career is over

 

[Joe Bryant]

Real quick things.

Don't ever call her Pocohantus here. 

If she did what it looks like she did there and tried to claim something that wasn't for her advantage, that's super lame and she deserves to be called out for it. One can do that without Pocohantus. 

 

[squistion]

Whatever point Coulter is trying to make here it is completely lost on me (yet it has 1400 retweets and 5000 likes)

Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter 1h1 hour ago

So basically, Elizabeth Warren has the same percentage of Indian blood as Custer.

 

[NFL2DF]

I think the only people who have ever set any bar at all and done so seriously in terms of what and who defines what race have actually been in segregated states and countries. I challenge you to find a better definition than the Nuremberg Laws. That's not a knock on you or anyone else arguing this point. It is the standard in terms of setting actual racial standards. If you want to do this I recommend you look at laws from around the 1910's in the segregated South or that. I'm not saying that's what Trump supporters are, I'm warning them that's where this sends up if they drill down on it.

It sounds like the Trump haters are the ones in this thread using the Nazi/KKK one drop rule to defend Warren. 

I am merely using common sense, logic, statistics, and Native American beliefs to assert that 1/1024 is irrelevant. 

 

[Sam Quentin]

The test results showed a range of between 1/32 and 1/512.

six to ten generations.

Six genarations ago is 1/64

10 generations ago is 1/1024

they can't even be honest about that 

 

[Sammy3469]

It sounds like the Trump haters are the ones in this thread using the Nazi/KKK one drop rule to defend Warren. 

I am merely using common sense, logic, statistics, and Native American beliefs to assert that 1/1024 is irrelevant. 

DNA’s not real...AMOIritit!?’vm

 

[The Indestructible]

Whatever point Coulter is trying to make here it is completely lost on me (yet it has 1400 retweets and 5000 likes)

Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter 1h1 hour ago

So basically, Elizabeth Warren has the same percentage of Indian blood as Custer.

I think the point is that Warren is as much Native American as a guy who fought Native Americans

 

[NFL2DF]

I work in Indian Country (this is a term of art generally accepted by tribes and tribal members).  Most of my co-workers are tribal members, of one tribe or another.  I used to practice Indian law.  Although it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what I used to know.  Many of my good friends grew up on a reservation.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  The laws related to tribes, tribal members, and the relationship between them and the U.S. government is incredibly complex.  Lots of rules don't make sense.  

2.  There is a long and painful history with respect to the Trust relationship the government has with Tribes and Tribal members.  For example, many folks in Indian Country feel strongly that the U.S. MUST honor all of the trust duties that it has taken on (including, but not limited to, treaty obligations).  Many of the trust duties don't actually show up in treaties, but are a result of a complicated interpretation of common law trust relationships.  In short:  Tribes want autonomy and self determination and sovereignty, but they also want the U.S. to continue providing the support it pledged 100 years ago.  Sometimes these concepts are at odds.

The above doesn't really have much to do with the Warren situation.  What does is:

3.  The U.S. government does not consider you a federally recognized member of a federally recognized Tribe unless the tribe so recognizes you.  In very simplified terms: you aren't "Indian" in the government's eyes unless you are a member of a federally recognized tribe (there are some weird things going on where a tribe is recognized by a state, but not the feds, such as the Lumbee in N.C., but we'll leave that aside for now).

4.  The reason for the above, essentially, is that being a member of a tribe is not about "race," but rather "citizenship."  The idea of taking a DNA test to "prove" your citizenship into a tribe is almost laughable. 

5.  Most tribes have some sort of "blood quantum" requirement.  In those tribes, you need to be able to trace your lineage directly to someone on the original tribal rolls.  I've had friends who have had crappy situations because they may be 1/2 Tribe A, 1/4 Tribe B, and 1/4 Tribe C, and there spouse would be similarly situated. With one of my friends, her kids can be enrolled members of her tribe because they don't have the adequate "blood quantum" for that Tribe, even thought the kids themselves may be like 75% "Indian blood."  It's just a weird situation. 

6.  All of this is to say that, I'm a HUGE Warren fan, in terms of policy, gumption, feistyness, everything.  But I'm kind of mad about her claiming Indian blood.  Should it disqualify her for running for president?  I don't know.  Maybe. Because it's stupid.  As a country we have crapped on Indians for the last 400 years.  If my great great great grandmother was from Africa, but I was raised as a white kid from the suburbs, I'd feel stupid listing "black" on my website somewhere.  In fact, my kid sisters have a different father than me, and their father was clearly considered black or African American.  But they look white and were raised as white kids.  They wouldn't think of trying to call themselves black on a job application.

7.  TL;DR -- As much as I love Warren, I think she kind of sucks for identifying as part Native American, especially if it was based on "family lore." 

Glad I didn't put you on ignore with most of the other trolls around here because I would have missed out on this.

Best post of the day.

 

[squistion]

I think the point is that Warren is as much Native American as a guy who fought Native Americans

So? Why should anyone care about this factoid?

 

[Mike Damone]

Six genarations ago is 1/64

10 generations ago is 1/1024

they can't even be honest about that 

This is what is being reported now 

the Globe has issued a correction 

 

[dschuler]

Whether it’s 1/512th or 1/1024th is irrelevant, she looks bad and indirectly proves Trump right.  She took a hit to any presidential chance today, and took some bad advice from whoever she trusted to come forth with this.  Luckily for her she still has plenty of time to recover.   It’s important to have people tell you what you need to hear, and not what you want to hear.  She should have kept this private. 

 

[Mike Damone]

The average white euro American is .18 percent Native American. Who advised her to release this info ??

 

[Joe Bryant]

Dumb question. I've only been in here to talk Drew Brees with Henry Ford. Did I miss something? I thought all this had been known for a long time. Why all the interest today? Is there something new?

 

[squistion]

Whether it’s 1/512th or 1/1024th is irrelevant, she looks bad and indirectly proves Trump right.  She took a hit to any presidential chance today, and took some bad advice from whoever she trusted to come forth with this.  Luckily for her she still has plenty of time to recover.   It’s important to have people tell you what you need to hear, and not what you want to hear.  She should have kept this private. 

Not at all. If she runs for President she has taken this subject matter off the table for any debate she will be in (although maybe not the case for Trump).

 

[NFL2DF]

Real quick things.

Don't ever call her Pocohantus here. 

If she did what it looks like she did there and tried to claim something that wasn't for her advantage, that's super lame and she deserves to be called out for it. One can do that without Pocohantus. 

How about calling Trump all sorts of disgusting names?

Pretending to care about the word Pocahontas while not caring about the vile and disgusting names that are thrown around daily here about Trump is a little disingenuous.

I realize the mob here will be upset with you, but you have shown some backbone recently and despite their crying most here respect it.

 

[dschuler]

The average white euro American is .18 percent Native American. Who advised her to release this info ??

Dirty politics.  Maybe someone that wants another Democrat to run in 2020 more than her.  Someone from the HRC camp if I had to guess, I don’t think Bernie plays dirty politics. 

 

[Insomniac]

Oh, I agree that calling her "Pocahontas" is incredibly offensive.  Both to her and to Naive Americans.  Using the term "Pocahontas" as a derisive term is a pretty crappy and indefensible thing to do.  Add it to the others, I guess. 

For many Trump supporters it's a feature not a bug.

 

[Don Quixote]

Dumb question. I've only been in here to talk Drew Brees with Henry Ford. Did I miss something? I thought all this had been known for a long time. Why all the interest today? Is there something new?

She took a DNA test, and results were released today.

 

[The Indestructible]

As a lawyer who remembers learning in law school about that time a kid sued Pepsi to cash in his Pepsi points to win a Harrier jet, I hope she sues Trump for the $1,000,000.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

How about calling Trump all sorts of disgusting names?

Pretending to care about the word Pocahontas while not caring about the vile and disgusting names that are thrown around daily here about Trump is a little disingenuous.

I realize the mob here will be upset with you, but you have shown some backbone recently and despite their crying most here respect it.

This isn't about her. This is about not using a term to mock a race. 

We try to limit the vile and disgusting names. Calling someone a POS will get a timeout. Calling someone an idiot seems lame to me, but we let that go. 

If you see something that is vile and disgusting, please use the report button. 

 

[NFL2DF]

Whatever point Coulter is trying to make here it is completely lost on me (yet it has 1400 retweets and 5000 likes)

Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter 1h1 hour ago

So basically, Elizabeth Warren has the same percentage of Indian blood as Custer.

Her point is that the amount of "Indian blood" Warren has is insignificant, to use a scientific term.

We all have "Indian blood" if you go back far enough seeing as "Indians" migrated from Asia.

#1/1024 

 

[Mike Damone]

Dirty politics.  Maybe someone that wants another Democrat to run in 2020 more than her.  Someone from the HRC camp if I had to guess, I don’t think Bernie plays dirty politics. 

I think former MA gov Deval Patrick will run with Obama’s backing and team

BO’s former campaign manager Jim Messina tweeted this

“Argue the substance all you want, but why 22 days before a crucial election where we MUST win house and senate to save America, why did

@SenWarren

have to do her announcement now? Why can’t Dems ever stay focused???”

 

[Joe Bryant]

She took a DNA test, and results were released today.

Thanks. I don't know why but I though this had happened a long time ago. Wasn't that the whole point of Trump mocking her with the name? Or was it just assumed she was not being truthful and now we know for sure?

 

[Mike Damone]

She took a DNA test, and results were released today.

Btw that’s not the corrected Globe story

 

[Joe Bryant]

She took a DNA test, and results were released today.

That's incredible.

Why would you ever release that if you're Warren?

 

[squistion]

Her point is that the amount of "Indian blood" Warren has is insignificant, to use a scientific term.

We all have "Indian blood" if you go back far enough seeing as "Indians" migrated from Asia.

#1/1024 

Oh, please. So actually we are all Native American now, or are to the same degree as everyone else?

 

[Insomniac]

Whether it’s 1/512th or 1/1024th is irrelevant, she looks bad and indirectly proves Trump right.  She took a hit to any presidential chance today, and took some bad advice from whoever she trusted to come forth with this.  Luckily for her she still has plenty of time to recover.   It’s important to have people tell you what you need to hear, and not what you want to hear.  She should have kept this private. 

How many ancestors do you have to have to claim that group as part of your ancestry? Seems any % that is above 0 would do.

 

[avoiding injuries]

How many ancestors do you have to have to claim that group as part of your ancestry? Seems any % that is above 0 would do.

Because Warren has less Native American DNA in her bloodline than the average white American. You should stop now  

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-less-native-american-dna

 

[Henry Ford]

As a lawyer who remembers learning in law school about that time a kid sued Pepsi to cash in his Pepsi points to win a Harrier jet, I hope she sues Trump for the $1,000,000.  

Best case ever.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I work in Indian Country (this is a term of art generally accepted by tribes and tribal members).  Most of my co-workers are tribal members, of one tribe or another.  I used to practice Indian law.  Although it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what I used to know.  Many of my good friends grew up on a reservation.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  The laws related to tribes, tribal members, and the relationship between them and the U.S. government is incredibly complex.  Lots of rules don't make sense.  

2.  There is a long and painful history with respect to the Trust relationship the government has with Tribes and Tribal members.  For example, many folks in Indian Country feel strongly that the U.S. MUST honor all of the trust duties that it has taken on (including, but not limited to, treaty obligations).  Many of the trust duties don't actually show up in treaties, but are a result of a complicated interpretation of common law trust relationships.  In short:  Tribes want autonomy and self determination and sovereignty, but they also want the U.S. to continue providing the support it pledged 100 years ago.  Sometimes these concepts are at odds.

The above doesn't really have much to do with the Warren situation.  What does is:

3.  The U.S. government does not consider you a federally recognized member of a federally recognized Tribe unless the tribe so recognizes you.  In very simplified terms: you aren't "Indian" in the government's eyes unless you are a member of a federally recognized tribe (there are some weird things going on where a tribe is recognized by a state, but not the feds, such as the Lumbee in N.C., but we'll leave that aside for now).

4.  The reason for the above, essentially, is that being a member of a tribe is not about "race," but rather "citizenship."  The idea of taking a DNA test to "prove" your citizenship into a tribe is almost laughable. 

5.  Most tribes have some sort of "blood quantum" requirement.  In those tribes, you need to be able to trace your lineage directly to someone on the original tribal rolls.  I've had friends who have had crappy situations because they may be 1/2 Tribe A, 1/4 Tribe B, and 1/4 Tribe C, and there spouse would be similarly situated. With one of my friends, her kids can be enrolled members of her tribe because they don't have the adequate "blood quantum" for that Tribe, even thought the kids themselves may be like 75% "Indian blood."  It's just a weird situation. 

6.  All of this is to say that, I'm a HUGE Warren fan, in terms of policy, gumption, feistyness, everything.  But I'm kind of mad about her claiming Indian blood.  Should it disqualify her for running for president?  I don't know.  Maybe. Because it's stupid.  As a country we have crapped on Indians for the last 400 years.  If my great great great grandmother was from Africa, but I was raised as a white kid from the suburbs, I'd feel stupid listing "black" on my website somewhere.  In fact, my kid sisters have a different father than me, and their father was clearly considered black or African American.  But they look white and were raised as white kids.  They wouldn't think of trying to call themselves black on a job application.

7.  TL;DR -- As much as I love Warren, I think she kind of sucks for identifying as part Native American, especially if it was based on "family lore." 

This is an excellent post, and I can vouch for all of what Sweet J posted here.  I live in a state with a large Indian population on several major reservations, and he's exactly correct about how tribal citizenship works.

I do disagree about this being disqualifying though.  My experience is that very few people understand what it means to "be Indian."  I certainly didn't before I moved to this state.  So I cut Warren a lot of slack by assuming ignorance rather than malice.  My attitude might be different if Warren had known what she was doing when she pushed her NA ancestry, but I doubt she had any idea that this is considered a big deal by the tribes themselves.

 

[Henry Ford]

Because Warren has less Native American DNA in her bloodline than the average white American. You should stop now  

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-less-native-american-dna

Or, you know.  Nearly twice as much.  According to that link.

 

[squistion]

Because Warren has less Native American DNA in her bloodline than the average white American. You should stop now  

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-less-native-american-dna

Not if it is 1/32 or 1/64 as it well could be.

 

[dschuler]

How many ancestors do you have to have to claim that group as part of your ancestry? Seems any % that is above 0 would do.

More than a hundred % more than her, a closer percentage to the the average person born in the US in her age group.  

 

[Henry Ford]

I work in Indian Country (this is a term of art generally accepted by tribes and tribal members).  Most of my co-workers are tribal members, of one tribe or another.  I used to practice Indian law.  Although it's been a long time, and I've forgotten most of what I used to know.  Many of my good friends grew up on a reservation.  A couple of thoughts:

1.  The laws related to tribes, tribal members, and the relationship between them and the U.S. government is incredibly complex.  Lots of rules don't make sense.  

2.  There is a long and painful history with respect to the Trust relationship the government has with Tribes and Tribal members.  For example, many folks in Indian Country feel strongly that the U.S. MUST honor all of the trust duties that it has taken on (including, but not limited to, treaty obligations).  Many of the trust duties don't actually show up in treaties, but are a result of a complicated interpretation of common law trust relationships.  In short:  Tribes want autonomy and self determination and sovereignty, but they also want the U.S. to continue providing the support it pledged 100 years ago.  Sometimes these concepts are at odds.

The above doesn't really have much to do with the Warren situation.  What does is:

3.  The U.S. government does not consider you a federally recognized member of a federally recognized Tribe unless the tribe so recognizes you.  In very simplified terms: you aren't "Indian" in the government's eyes unless you are a member of a federally recognized tribe (there are some weird things going on where a tribe is recognized by a state, but not the feds, such as the Lumbee in N.C., but we'll leave that aside for now).

4.  The reason for the above, essentially, is that being a member of a tribe is not about "race," but rather "citizenship."  The idea of taking a DNA test to "prove" your citizenship into a tribe is almost laughable. 

5.  Most tribes have some sort of "blood quantum" requirement.  In those tribes, you need to be able to trace your lineage directly to someone on the original tribal rolls.  I've had friends who have had crappy situations because they may be 1/2 Tribe A, 1/4 Tribe B, and 1/4 Tribe C, and there spouse would be similarly situated. With one of my friends, her kids can be enrolled members of her tribe because they don't have the adequate "blood quantum" for that Tribe, even thought the kids themselves may be like 75% "Indian blood."  It's just a weird situation. 

6.  All of this is to say that, I'm a HUGE Warren fan, in terms of policy, gumption, feistyness, everything.  But I'm kind of mad about her claiming Indian blood.  Should it disqualify her for running for president?  I don't know.  Maybe. Because it's stupid.  As a country we have crapped on Indians for the last 400 years.  If my great great great grandmother was from Africa, but I was raised as a white kid from the suburbs, I'd feel stupid listing "black" on my website somewhere.  In fact, my kid sisters have a different father than me, and their father was clearly considered black or African American.  But they look white and were raised as white kids.  They wouldn't think of trying to call themselves black on a job application.

7.  TL;DR -- As much as I love Warren, I think she kind of sucks for identifying as part Native American, especially if it was based on "family lore." 

Just to clarify, are you arguing that someone who has 100% Native American ancestry but whose ancestors belonged to tribes that no longer exist because of genocide is not Native American?  Because Native American isn't just about "tribe."  Being a member of a "tribe" is not the only definition of being Native American.  Tribal affiliation and ancestry are very different concepts, especially with the number of children who were stolen and their ancestry wiped clean.

 

[knowledge dropper]

Can we first verify he is in fact human?

I’m pretty sure this meets Joe’s trolling requirements spelled out in the cesspool thread.