I really hate Daylight Savings Time (1 Viewer)

[Gr00vus]

Th

I'd be fine if the whole world was on the same clock. No time zones or DST needed.

That's what UTC is for.

 

[NutterButter]

Looks like most folks are for keeping dst which I wasn't expecting. I guess its just the people with young kiddies and early morning runners that are for standad time.

 

[Mitchie]

Looks like most folks are for keeping dst which I wasn't expecting. I guess its just the people with young kiddies and early morning runners that are for standad time.

People like extra daylight in the summer in the evenings after work, as you point out think there's only a small group of people who would prefer the extra daylight in the a.m.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Truly don't get all the complaining, have any of you ever flown outside of your time zone and had to adjust for several hours of time difference, this is one freaking hour twice a year, smh.

“The annual change from standard time to daylight saving time is associated with increased risk of heart attacks and stroke. There are increased hospital admissions due to atrial fibrillation. There also is an increase in emergency room visits and missed medical appointments. Traffic accidents increase in the first few days after the change from standard time to daylight saving time. The spring and fall time changes also have been associated with mood disturbances and suicide.”

Daylight Saving Time - Sleep Education

The AASM is calling for an end to seasonal time changes in favor of year-round standard time. Learn more about daylight saving time here.

sleepeducation.org

Yes, some studies have examined the incidence of heart attacks and accidents during periods without daylight saving time (DST) transitions to determine if these events occur independently of the time change. For instance, a study published in BMJ Medicine analyzed weekly mortality rates and found seasonal trends, with an increasing trend in spring and a decreasing trend in autumn. The study observed a slight but not significant increase in all-cause mortality rates after the transition to spring DST, suggesting that seasonal factors may contribute to these incidents even without the time change. bmjmedicine.bmj.com

Additionally, a comprehensive study by the Mayo Clinic examined the effects of DST on heart health and found that the impact is likely minimal, indicating that other factors, such as seasonal variations, might play a more significant role in the incidence of heart attacks. newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

These findings suggest that while DST transitions may have some impact, seasonal variations and other factors also contribute to fluctuations in heart attack and accident rates.


Addtionally, one thing none of the studies bother to mention is that about half of the time spring forward (the one they generally say causes issues with accidents and heart attacks) happens the same week as St Patrick's Day. So those studies using the entire week after DST means they're absorbing St Patrick's day into the data..

So they're saying there is a 5% increase in fatal accidents the week after DST compared to the week before over a 20 year period. But in 10 of those years the week after included St Patrick's day, which typically has almost a 20% increase in fatal accidents on that one day alone, and is usually 4-6 days after DST (so obviously those accidents are a result of St Patrick's Day, not DST).

I wonder what those percentages would be if they compared the years where the week after DST did not include St Patrick's Day, versus when it did.

 

[Mitchie]

Truly don't get all the complaining, have any of you ever flown outside of your time zone and had to adjust for several hours of time difference, this is one freaking hour twice a year, smh.

“The annual change from standard time to daylight saving time is associated with increased risk of heart attacks and stroke. There are increased hospital admissions due to atrial fibrillation. There also is an increase in emergency room visits and missed medical appointments. Traffic accidents increase in the first few days after the change from standard time to daylight saving time. The spring and fall time changes also have been associated with mood disturbances and suicide.”

Daylight Saving Time - Sleep Education

The AASM is calling for an end to seasonal time changes in favor of year-round standard time. Learn more about daylight saving time here.

sleepeducation.org

Yes, some studies have examined the incidence of heart attacks and accidents during periods without daylight saving time (DST) transitions to determine if these events occur independently of the time change. For instance, a study published in BMJ Medicine analyzed weekly mortality rates and found seasonal trends, with an increasing trend in spring and a decreasing trend in autumn. The study observed a slight but not significant increase in all-cause mortality rates after the transition to spring DST, suggesting that seasonal factors may contribute to these incidents even without the time change. bmjmedicine.bmj.com

Additionally, a comprehensive study by the Mayo Clinic examined the effects of DST on heart health and found that the impact is likely minimal, indicating that other factors, such as seasonal variations, might play a more significant role in the incidence of heart attacks. newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org

These findings suggest that while DST transitions may have some impact, seasonal variations and other factors also contribute to fluctuations in heart attack and accident rates.


Addtionally, one thing none of the studies bother to mention is that about half of the time spring forward (the one they generally say causes issues with accidents and heart attacks) happens the same week as St Patrick's Day. So those studies using the entire week after DST (which is kind of silly to use an entire week already) instead of just the day after means they're absorbing St Patrick's day into the data..

So they're saying there is a 5% increase in fatal accidents the week after DST compared to the week before over a 20 year period. But in 10 of those years the week after included St Patrick's day, which has almost a 20% increase in fatal accidents on that one day alone, and is usually 4-6 days after DST (so obviously those accidents are a result of St Patrick's Day, not DST).

I wonder what those percentages would be if they only looked at years where the week after DST did not include St Patrick's Day.

If these stats had any real correlation we should ban anyone from driving for 24 hours after they change time zones. No more road trips unless stay in the same time zone.

 

[Wildcat]

Looks like most folks are for keeping dst which I wasn't expecting. I guess it’s just the people with young kiddies and early morning runners that are for standad time.

I am all for keeping it too. It’s this ridiculous back and forth changing that I take issue with. Let’s just keep this current time permanently

 

[Fruitbat]

Love DST, but I live in northern MN and it is glorious to have those summer daylight hours until 930 or so....nice change from winter when it's dark by 430.

...however....

At the end of the day, this is just a forced culture change. The exact same thing is accomplished if our cultural "standard" work/school hours were 7ish-4ish instead of 8ish-5ish. more hours with sunlight after a standard days work.

But that will never happen. When I explain that to people they usually look at me like I just grew a 3rd eye.

 

[NutterButter]

Looks like most folks are for keeping dst which I wasn't expecting. I guess it’s just the people with young kiddies and early morning runners that are for standad time.

I am all for keeping it too. It’s this ridiculous back and forth changing that I take issue with. Let’s just keep this current time permanently

It does seem rather silly, but if my only choices are permanent standard or what we have now, i'm sticking with what we have now.

 

[NutterButter]

Love DST, but I live in northern MN and it is glorious to have those summer daylight hours until 930 or so....nice change from winter when it's dark by 430.

...however....

At the end of the day, this is just a forced culture change. The exact same thing is accomplished if our cultural "standard" work/school hours were 7ish-4ish instead of 8ish-5ish. more hours with sunlight after a standard days work.

But that will never happen. When I explain that to people they usually look at me like I just grew a 3rd eye.

I would actually prefer the opposite for the high school hours. I think the hours now are too early. Its a real struggle to get a teenager to go to bed early enough so they get a good 8-9 hours of sleep. Their bodies aren't wired to go to bed that early. Luckily for me I'm just about at the point where I don't have to care about that anymore. Getting old isn't all bad.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Love DST, but I live in northern MN and it is glorious to have those summer daylight hours until 930 or so....nice change from winter when it's dark by 430.

...however....

At the end of the day, this is just a forced culture change. The exact same thing is accomplished if our cultural "standard" work/school hours were 7ish-4ish instead of 8ish-5ish. more hours with sunlight after a standard days work.

But that will never happen. When I explain that to people they usually look at me like I just grew a 3rd eye.

I would actually prefer the opposite for the high school hours. I think the hours now are too early. Its a real struggle to get a teenager to go to bed early enough so they get a good 8-9 hours of sleep. Their bodies aren't wired to go to bed that early. Luckily for me I'm just about at the point where I don't have to care about that anymore. Getting old isn't all bad.

What he's saying is work/school hours are just a construct of what we've become accustomed to. 7am only seems early because 9am is the normal start time. If 7am was the normal start time, 7am would seem normal and 9am would seem "late" (like 11am now).

If the optimal work/school hours for optimizing daylight are actually 7am - 3pm rather than 9-5, then shifting everything in that direction would mean we get used to that new schedule. And going to bed a 8pm, getting up at 6am, getting off work at 3pm would be exactly the same as going to bed at 10pm, getting up at 8am, getting off work at 5pm.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Love DST, but I live in northern MN and it is glorious to have those summer daylight hours until 930 or so....nice change from winter when it's dark by 430.

...however....

At the end of the day, this is just a forced culture change. The exact same thing is accomplished if our cultural "standard" work/school hours were 7ish-4ish instead of 8ish-5ish. more hours with sunlight after a standard days work.

But that will never happen. When I explain that to people they usually look at me like I just grew a 3rd eye.

I would actually prefer the opposite for the high school hours. I think the hours now are too early. Its a real struggle to get a teenager to go to bed early enough so they get a good 8-9 hours of sleep. Their bodies aren't wired to go to bed that early. Luckily for me I'm just about at the point where I don't have to care about that anymore. Getting old isn't all bad.

There have been studies on this. High school really should start at like 10:00 AM. I think after-school sports is a big reason that’s not likely to ever happen.

 

[MAC_32]

What we are doing now, changing clocks / standard work & school hours, is the best mixture we have. People just like to complain. It objectively sucks for parents of small humans though.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

What we are doing now, changing clocks / standard work & school hours, is the best mixture we have. People just like to complain. It objectively sucks for parents of small humans though.

Why is it worse with small kids?

My kids used to be tiny people and I don't remember that making it that much worse, except that I was jealous I didn't get the extra hour of sleep in the fall because the kids were going to wake up at the same time anyway.

 

[MAC_32]

What we are doing now, changing clocks / standard work & school hours, is the best mixture we have. People just like to complain. It objectively sucks for parents of small humans though.

Why is it worse with small kids?

My kids used to be tiny people and I don't remember that making it that much worse, except that I was jealous I didn't get the extra hour of sleep in the fall because the kids were going to wake up at the same time anyway.

Lots of reasons, some covered here. Humans are genetically adaptable, so the bar should be set at less resistance from adults, but kids just aren't developed enough to have similar expectations.

 

[NutterButter]

Love DST, but I live in northern MN and it is glorious to have those summer daylight hours until 930 or so....nice change from winter when it's dark by 430.

...however....

At the end of the day, this is just a forced culture change. The exact same thing is accomplished if our cultural "standard" work/school hours were 7ish-4ish instead of 8ish-5ish. more hours with sunlight after a standard days work.

But that will never happen. When I explain that to people they usually look at me like I just grew a 3rd eye.

I would actually prefer the opposite for the high school hours. I think the hours now are too early. Its a real struggle to get a teenager to go to bed early enough so they get a good 8-9 hours of sleep. Their bodies aren't wired to go to bed that early. Luckily for me I'm just about at the point where I don't have to care about that anymore. Getting old isn't all bad.

What he's saying is work/school hours are just a construct of what we've become accustomed to. 7am only seems early because 9am is the normal start time. If 7am was the normal start time, 7am would seem normal and 9am would seem "late" (like 11am now).

If the optimal work/school hours for optimizing daylight are actually 7am - 3pm rather than 9-5, then shifting everything in that direction would mean we get used to that new schedule. And going to bed a 8pm, getting up at 6am, getting off work at 3pm would be exactly the same as going to bed at 10pm, getting up at 8am, getting off work at 5pm.

Isn't the circadian rhythm more than just a construct of convenience? We've had these school hours for decades and its not like teenagers have adapted where they're going to bed earlier. Its still a significant struggle and the teens suffer for it.

 

[NutterButter]

Love DST, but I live in northern MN and it is glorious to have those summer daylight hours until 930 or so....nice change from winter when it's dark by 430.

...however....

At the end of the day, this is just a forced culture change. The exact same thing is accomplished if our cultural "standard" work/school hours were 7ish-4ish instead of 8ish-5ish. more hours with sunlight after a standard days work.

But that will never happen. When I explain that to people they usually look at me like I just grew a 3rd eye.

I would actually prefer the opposite for the high school hours. I think the hours now are too early. Its a real struggle to get a teenager to go to bed early enough so they get a good 8-9 hours of sleep. Their bodies aren't wired to go to bed that early. Luckily for me I'm just about at the point where I don't have to care about that anymore. Getting old isn't all bad.

There have been studies on this. High school really should start at like 10:00 AM. I think after-school sports is a big reason that’s not likely to ever happen.

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

 

[Todem]

What we are doing now, changing clocks / standard work & school hours, is the best mixture we have. People just like to complain. It objectively sucks for parents of small humans though.

Yeah who cares.

More important things to fix than this BS.

 

[MAC_32]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

 

[NutterButter]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

So the priority is sports, not academics?

 

[MAC_32]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

 

[MAC_32]

So the priority is sports, not academics?

C'mon.

 

[Gr00vus]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

5.5 hour practices?

 

[MAC_32]

5.5 hour practices?

You serious, Clark?

 

[NutterButter]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

This isn't like some social study for which the results will change from year to year. The phsyical science shows that adoscelents sleep habits dramatically change and that high school hours as they stand are far from ideal. I know I've seen it first hand as has most parents. If sports in their current state are untenable, so be it. All athletes are students, while only a minority of students are athletes. In a day and age where as a society we're struggling for ways to improve education, here's a promising idea that comes at almost no cost. But I'm not naive. I know the cultural importance that we place on sports and as much as we like to claim that education is the priority, our actions as a society don't always align with that claim.

 

[MAC_32]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

This isn't like some social study for which the results will change from year to year. The phsyical science shows that adoscelents sleep habits dramatically change and that high school hours as they stand are far from ideal. I know I've seen it first hand as has most parents. If sports in their current state are untenable, so be it. All athletes are students, while only a minority of students are athletes. In a day and age where as a society we're struggling for ways to improve education, here's a promising idea that comes at almost no cost. But I'm not naive. I know the cultural importance that we place on sports and as much as we like to claim that education is the priority, our actions as a society don't always align with that claim.

You do understand there are other extra curricular activities beyond just sports, right?

 

[ghostguy123]

Keep the time where it is now, and don't change in the fall.
What's the downside of this again?

 

[sports_fan]

I'm setting my clock back 23 hours instead of forward 1 hour so I don’t lose any sleep.

 

[NutterButter]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

This isn't like some social study for which the results will change from year to year. The phsyical science shows that adoscelents sleep habits dramatically change and that high school hours as they stand are far from ideal. I know I've seen it first hand as has most parents. If sports in their current state are untenable, so be it. All athletes are students, while only a minority of students are athletes. In a day and age where as a society we're struggling for ways to improve education, here's a promising idea that comes at almost no cost. But I'm not naive. I know the cultural importance that we place on sports and as much as we like to claim that education is the priority, our actions as a society don't always align with that claim.

You do understand there are other extra curricular activities beyond just sports, right?

Sure, but I don't think they have the same space limitations as the sports teams do. I think you can still fit in your chess club or whatever club between the hours of 4:30-6 or 6:30. Actually works a little better for those parents as they can swing by and pick up their kid on their way home from work.

 

[SFBayDuck]

So the priority is sports, not academics?

C'mon.

You said it. The daily schedule needs to accommodate sports practices (not sure how 2:30-8:00 is necessary, though?), which, because there are limited hours in the day, comes at the expense of when teenagers are best suited to learn and forces them into 7:40 AM Algebra classes when their brains aren't awake yet.

Can't we get creative? Orchestra and band and drama are classes that are scheduled as part of the day, so there is a precedent for using periods for "extracurricular activities". The issue at many schools is court/field space. So have JV practices in the AM before school. Throw in a two-period scheduling window in the middle of the day and let soccer and wrestling bang out practices in season to make use of fields/courts that sit empty during large windows of the day. PE classes used to conflict with some of this but my daughter's HS didn't even offer PE, and I don't think that's uncommon anymore. Hell, I had 6:00 AM basketball practices when I was in 9th-10th grade. Of course I hated it at the time, and maybe it wasn't optimal for making us the best basketball players possible. But what are we trying to optimize for?

 

[MAC_32]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

This isn't like some social study for which the results will change from year to year. The phsyical science shows that adoscelents sleep habits dramatically change and that high school hours as they stand are far from ideal. I know I've seen it first hand as has most parents. If sports in their current state are untenable, so be it. All athletes are students, while only a minority of students are athletes. In a day and age where as a society we're struggling for ways to improve education, here's a promising idea that comes at almost no cost. But I'm not naive. I know the cultural importance that we place on sports and as much as we like to claim that education is the priority, our actions as a society don't always align with that claim.

You do understand there are other extra curricular activities beyond just sports, right?

Sure, but I don't think they have the same space limitations as the sports teams do. I think you can still fit in your chess club or whatever club between the hours of 4:30-6 or 6:30. Actually works a little better for those parents as they can swing by and pick up their kid on their way home from work.

Some of them are fighting for the same space as sports. Your suggestion will kill those programs cause of the cultural priorities you mentioned before. This is going to come across more obtuse than intended, but if this is important to you I strongly suggest engaging schools about this- and be sure to hit a variety of different socio economic backgrounds. We haven't even gotten to high crime areas after dark.

 

[NutterButter]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

This isn't like some social study for which the results will change from year to year. The phsyical science shows that adoscelents sleep habits dramatically change and that high school hours as they stand are far from ideal. I know I've seen it first hand as has most parents. If sports in their current state are untenable, so be it. All athletes are students, while only a minority of students are athletes. In a day and age where as a society we're struggling for ways to improve education, here's a promising idea that comes at almost no cost. But I'm not naive. I know the cultural importance that we place on sports and as much as we like to claim that education is the priority, our actions as a society don't always align with that claim.

You do understand there are other extra curricular activities beyond just sports, right?

Sure, but I don't think they have the same space limitations as the sports teams do. I think you can still fit in your chess club or whatever club between the hours of 4:30-6 or 6:30. Actually works a little better for those parents as they can swing by and pick up their kid on their way home from work.

Some of them are fighting for the same space as sports. Your suggestion will kill those programs cause of the cultural priorities you mentioned before. This is going to come across more obtuse than intended, but if this is important to you I strongly suggest engaging schools about this- and be sure to hit a variety of different socio economic backgrounds. We haven't even gotten to high crime areas after dark.

Oh its not. I'm not the type that participates in such endeavors. I'm well aware the wrath that I would face and I just prefer to keep to my own happy space. My kids have done very well and the youngest just has a couple more years left before I can hang up my fulltime parenting cleats. I think retiring from that will be sweeter than actual work retirement. LOL. Its just an observation that I've made and you replied to my post so I was in the mood on this chilly windy sunday to have a little discussion.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'm setting my clock back 23 hours instead of forward 1 hour so I don’t lose any sleep.

I actually did that on one of my clocks this morning because I hit the wrong button. Didn't get any more sleep, though

 

[dino259]

What if instead of going back and forth an hour we just move the whole world 30 minutes and split the difference and not change any further.

 

[Gr00vus]

5.5 hour practices?

You serious, Clark?

Did I do the math wrong?

 

[IrishTwinkie]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

I know but what's the priority here? You've got kids that are zombies for those first 2 classes. They're eating lunch at like 10:30. I know sports are important but I don't think they should come at the expense of education.

Your suggestion does not address the practice time problem, it just pushes everything back. Instead of practices going from 2:30-8 they go from 4:30-10 and kids are no longer at their peak at 10 am, future studies will then yield ~noon. More unintended consequences than just that, this one's just obvious.

This isn't like some social study for which the results will change from year to year. The phsyical science shows that adoscelents sleep habits dramatically change and that high school hours as they stand are far from ideal. I know I've seen it first hand as has most parents. If sports in their current state are untenable, so be it. All athletes are students, while only a minority of students are athletes. In a day and age where as a society we're struggling for ways to improve education, here's a promising idea that comes at almost no cost. But I'm not naive. I know the cultural importance that we place on sports and as much as we like to claim that education is the priority, our actions as a society don't always align with that claim.

You do understand there are other extra curricular activities beyond just sports, right?

Sure, but I don't think they have the same space limitations as the sports teams do. I think you can still fit in your chess club or whatever club between the hours of 4:30-6 or 6:30. Actually works a little better for those parents as they can swing by and pick up their kid on their way home from work.

Some of them are fighting for the same space as sports. Your suggestion will kill those programs cause of the cultural priorities you mentioned before. This is going to come across more obtuse than intended, but if this is important to you I strongly suggest engaging schools about this- and be sure to hit a variety of different socio economic backgrounds. We haven't even gotten to high crime areas after dark.

Oh its not. I'm not the type that participates in such endeavors. I'm well aware the wrath that I would face and I just prefer to keep to my own happy space. My kids have done very well and the youngest just has a couple more years left before I can hang up my fulltime parenting cleats. I think retiring from that will be sweeter than actual work retirement. LOL. Its just an observation that I've made and you replied to my post so I was in the mood on this chilly windy sunday to have a little discussion.

My school district recently moved the start time for the HS back an hour or two. For your same stated reasons. I was very much against the idea. The problem isn't that HS school kids have some weird body clock or some such. The problem is they all have tons of stuff to do. From sports, to extra-curriculars (and no, not just in school things chess club and robotics. Things like dance, martial-arts), to homework, jobs, friends. They are trying to fit 36 hours worth of stuff into a 24 hour bag. Until you address everything the kids are doing and scale it back, the lack of sleep isn't going away. By just moving the start time around, you are just changing when the students don't sleep. They are not going to drop all the non-school time commitments. And they still aren't going to get enough sleep.

 

[jwb]

Keep the time where it is now, and don't change in the fall.
What's the downside of this again?

They tried this back in 1974 I believe, and had to reverse it within a year. The mornings stay dark too long in the winter, and kids were getting killed walking to school/etc.

 

[ghostguy123]

Keep the time where it is now, and don't change in the fall.
What's the downside of this again?

They tried this back in 1974 I believe, and had to reverse it within a year. The mornings stay dark too long in the winter, and kids were getting killed walking to school/etc.

Wondering if maybe things have gotten safer since then.

 

[bcat01]

Keep the time where it is now, and don't change in the fall.
What's the downside of this again?

They tried this back in 1974 I believe, and had to reverse it within a year. The mornings stay dark too long in the winter, and kids were getting killed walking to school/etc.

No one remembers this so history will repeat itself.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

 

[MAC_32]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

 

[belljr]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

Then you like DST

 

[MAC_32]

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

Me too, but I also think about what @jwb wrote above when I look out at our kids waiting for the bus at 7 am on a cold January morning. There's a couple weeks before / after christmas break in which I'm thinking it's uncomfortably dark as is. Without the current shift to standard from Nov-Mar those couple-few weeks turn into four-five months, most of which are pitch black, and there are a lot of places that are not lit nearly as well as where we live.

Always has been, always will be a deal breaker for me. It's on adults to adapt.

 

[Raging weasel]

I mostly hate DST because I work at a school and have to change the time on 30+ clocks.

 

[NutterButter]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

Then you like DST

I always thought that more people didn't like DST from social media posts. I wonder how many folks have it mixed up.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

Then you like DST

I was wondering which side that fell on, thank you for clarifying, whatever it is right now as of this past Saturday Night, leave it that way

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

Then you like DST

I always thought that more people didn't like DST from social media posts. I wonder how many folks have it mixed up.

I would guess what they don't like is the time change. For whatever reason, people seem to say "daylight savings" when they mean "time change."

 

[belljr]

Yup. Its like our priorities are all screwed up. What percentage of kids even play after school sports in high school? There's no reason school can't start at 10am and end at 4:30. Nothing to do with work hours either b/c this is high school where kids are more than capable of going to and from the bus by themselves.

Very, very, very strongly disagree. Cramming in practice times for our sports teams without going too late at night is incredibly challenging with a ~2:30 finish to school.

They have magnet programs for everything else, they can do the same for Sports or the students that want to do that.
Tennis as an example, those kids can start at 7-7:30 in the morning and go shower by 9 and be ready for class to start at 10am
Basketball practice can start at 7am and I keep going.

I like the 10-4 idea for students, especially in high school.

Some schools already do something like what you're describing, but while I can't expand much beyond this in this forum, that gets at where this can be addressed - locally. Words alone can't describe how disastrous it would be if this were done federally, and tied with permanent daylight savings.

Unless it's funded.

Just to get back to the original topic, I can't stand DST, I hate in he Winter when it's dark at 4:30-5:00 right as the work day ends.
Whatever it is right now where the night doesn't start until 7:30, I like having an hour or two when work ends to get outside and play tennis or ride a bike/walk, BBQ
I'm not a morning person and I cannot start exercising at 5 or 6 in the morning. I can play tennis at 7:30 but at least I've had a cup of coffee by that time

I do better in the early evening

Then you like DST

I always thought that more people didn't like DST from social media posts. I wonder how many folks have it mixed up.

I would guess what they don't like is the time change. For whatever reason, people seem to say "daylight savings" when they mean "time change."

Yeah this most likely.

Sunday put us into daylight savings time. We were currently in standard time from November to March

 

[Gatorade]

One good thing about being retired. I went to wake my wife at the " normal" time. She just rolled over and slept another hour. She just hates any time change and refuses to participate.