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I really like Elizabeth Warren (1 Viewer)

NCCommish

Footballguy
Referring to the HSBC scandal:

“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”
I just love the work she is doing on the banking committee.
 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
As an opponent of affirmative action, I sometimes appreciate having a living, breathing example to point to so I don't have to make up crazy hypotheticals to establish a point.

 
Referring to the HSBC scandal:

“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”
I just love the work she is doing on the banking committee.
Couldn't agree with you more. Everything I read about her first few months in the Senate makes me love her more. I think that a lot of politicians are too scared to point out when the emperor has no clothes. She just seems completely unimpressed with bull####.
 

SacramentoBob

Footballguy
“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”
Pretty much the same thing Grandmaster Melle Mel said in White Lines.
 
As an opponent of affirmative action, I sometimes appreciate having a living, breathing example to point to so I don't have to make up crazy hypotheticals to establish a point.
A better example might be somebody that benefited from affirmative action but seems like an idiot. Ted Cruz maybe?
 

wikkidpissah

Footballguy
fan of her work before she ran for elective office, but can no longer abide the thought, look or sound of Warren after witnessing her conduct the worst major campaign i've ever seen.

 

NCCommish

Footballguy
As an opponent of affirmative action, I sometimes appreciate having a living, breathing example to point to so I don't have to make up crazy hypotheticals to establish a point.
I have absolutely no idea what this means or what you are referencing.
Seriously? She's been pilloried for lying about being part-Cherokee and using that advance her academic career.
Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
 

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
Really? Lying about your race to further your career is no big deal?

If she were a Republican, she would have been branded the most awful person ever and a racist.

 
[Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
One of the primary criticisms of affirmative action is that it sometimes unfairly helps people without justification, at the expense of other people. If Elizabeth Warren got any preferences for being part Cherokee, that would be a pretty good example of this.
 
Really? Lying about your race to further your career is no big deal?If she were a Republican, she would have been branded the most awful person ever and a racist.
It seems a bit far-fetched to believe that she just made the thing up out of wholecloth to receive preferential treatment. It seems credible that she just believed what her mom had told her.
 

SacramentoBob

Footballguy
Really? Lying about your race to further your career is no big deal?If she were a Republican, she would have been branded the most awful person ever and a racist.
It seems a bit far-fetched to believe that she just made the thing up out of wholecloth to receive preferential treatment. It seems credible that she just believed what her mom had told her.
I believed a lot of stuff my dad told me when I was a kid, but I actually looked into it when I got older and found out he was FoS.
 

Slapdash

Footballguy
As an opponent of affirmative action, I sometimes appreciate having a living, breathing example to point to so I don't have to make up crazy hypotheticals to establish a point.
I have absolutely no idea what this means or what you are referencing.
Seriously? She's been pilloried for lying about being part-Cherokee and using that advance her academic career.
Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
They're just trying to muddy the waters here.
 

johnnycakes

Footballguy
I still can't believe she beat Scott Brown for this senate seat. goes to show you how in-the-bag this whole state is for any democrat.

 

NCCommish

Footballguy
[Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
One of the primary criticisms of affirmative action is that it sometimes unfairly helps people without justification, at the expense of other people. If Elizabeth Warren got any preferences for being part Cherokee, that would be a pretty good example of this.
On Tuesday, Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) went birther on Elizabeth Warren. "Serious questions have been raised about the legitimacy of Elizabeth Warren's claims to Native American ancestry," Brown said in a statement released to the press.

But given the available evidence concerning Warren's ancestry, Brown is essentially implying there may have been an elaborate, years-long effort to fake his opponent's heritage—not unlike the conspiracy envisioned by right-wing activists who sought "answers" about President Obama's citizenship. (The Brown campaign did not respond to multiple requests for comment.)

This faux controversy stems from a series of articles in the Boston Herald, which reported that Warren had listed herself as Native American in a Harvard Law School faculty directory. (Brown's top adviser, Eric Fehrnstrom, is a former Herald reporter.) This fueled criticism on the right that Warren had falsely claimed Native American status to advance her legal career. Now this bizarre kerfuffle has snowballed well beyond that, as conservatives pursue an in-depth probe of Warren's great-great-great grandmother's ethnicity and whether Warren's great-great-great-uncle lied about it.

What's known is this: As the Herald reported after publishing its initial story on Warren's background, researchers at the New England Historical Genealogical Society believe that one of Warren's great-great-great grandmothers, a woman named O.C. Sarah Smith, was Cherokee. If O.C. Sarah Smith was full-blooded, that would make Warren at least 1/32 Cherokee. (While that may seem insubstantial, Bill John Baker, the principal chief of the Cherokee nation, is also 1/32 Cherokee.) The NEHGS based its claim on a March 2006 newsletter referencing research by a woman named Lynda Smith. The newsletter reports that while digging into her own ancestry, Smith found a marriage application in which William J. Crawford, a son of O.C. Sarah Smith, listed his mother's race as Cherokee.

The NEHGS considers the newsletter to be a legitimate source, says Tom Champoux, a spokesman for the group. "Genealogists do reference research conducted by others, with further verification sometimes provided," he said in an emailed statement. "In the case of Native American research, it's not uncommon for families to pass down family histories orally, especially with earlier generations, as paper evidence and primary documents were not kept." But in this case there is a primary document cited—the marriage application.

Even this, however, has not been enough for Warren's critics. A day after publishing its story revealing the marriage application, the Herald published a follow-up implying the document may not actually exist. The article argued that genealogists had been "unable to back up earlier accounts" of Warren's ancestry because a copy of the marriage application has yet to be produced. Over at Breitbart.com, Michael Patrick Leahy, whose hobby is genealogy, has chimed in with a new wrinkle. Based on Census and other records, he argues that William J. Crawford either lied or was mistaken about his mother's race:

[W]hy would Ms. Warren's great-great-grand-uncle make up such a thing? Perhaps he showed the same kind of tendency towards ancestral "embellishment" that she herself seems to exhibit, or perhaps there was some logistical or tactical benefit in the Oklahoma Territory of 1894 to him and his intended bride that encouraged him to make the claim. Or perhaps he believed it to be true, even though in all probability it was not. We will likely never know.

(It's hard to imagine why a man wouldn't know his own mother's ethnicity. At a time when Native Americans were being herded onto reservations at gunpoint, it's unclear what conceivable benefit there would have been to falsely claiming Native American status. And even if William J. Crawford did lie for some reason, it's hard to see how Warren could have known about it.)

By jumping into this controversy, Brown seems to be embracing the same tortured, birther-esque arguments as the conservatives who are trying to paint Warren (and her great-great-great-uncle) as a liar. Perhaps the better question is why Brown is raising these "serious questions" to begin with.

Mother Jones
Seems like more birther crap to me. So it may be an example of something but a strike against affirmative action not so much.
 
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Really? Lying about your race to further your career is no big deal?If she were a Republican, she would have been branded the most awful person ever and a racist.
It seems a bit far-fetched to believe that she just made the thing up out of wholecloth to receive preferential treatment. It seems credible that she just believed what her mom had told her.
I believed a lot of stuff my dad told me when I was a kid, but I actually looked into it when I got older and found out he was FoS.
OK, I'm just pushing back on the claim that she was lying to further her career. If your argument is that she had some sort of duty to research her genealogy before claiming Native American ancestry, that strikes me as a much weaker accusation.
 

SacramentoBob

Footballguy
Really? Lying about your race to further your career is no big deal?If she were a Republican, she would have been branded the most awful person ever and a racist.
It seems a bit far-fetched to believe that she just made the thing up out of wholecloth to receive preferential treatment. It seems credible that she just believed what her mom had told her.
I believed a lot of stuff my dad told me when I was a kid, but I actually looked into it when I got older and found out he was FoS.
OK, I'm just pushing back on the claim that she was lying to further her career. If your argument is that she had some sort of duty to research her genealogy before claiming Native American ancestry, that strikes me as a much weaker accusation.
I guess that depends. :shrug: If you put it on an application somewhere, I believe you should have a reason to believe it more than just "mom said so".
 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
As an opponent of affirmative action, I sometimes appreciate having a living, breathing example to point to so I don't have to make up crazy hypotheticals to establish a point.
I have absolutely no idea what this means or what you are referencing.
Seriously? She's been pilloried for lying about being part-Cherokee and using that advance her academic career.
Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
As you know, I think affirmative action is unjust. When people who actually qualify for affirmative action take advantage of it (e.g. Clarence Thomas, let's say), that's okay with me. After all, I don't approve of Social Security, but I didn't ask for that program to be created and I'd vote against it if given the chance, so given that it's part of the world that I live in, I'll play along. If other people choose to do the same with affirmative action, no problem.That said, when somebody just makes stuff up and lies about their ethnic background as a way of gaming the system, that raises two more issues. Like I mentioned before, it does help illustrate the absurdity and general wrongness of the implied one-drop rule that underlies most affirmative action policies. But that's really the more minor point. More importantly, it calls into question the character of the person herself. What standing does Elizabeth Warren have to call out financial companies who take advantage of loopholes or even outright fraud to get ahead? She had no problem doing this sort of thing when she was starting out and found it convenient to do so. I find it difficult to believe that you sincerely don't see why somebody like me would find this episode particularly galling. I know the issue came up during a high-profile campaign, and there's always a tendency to ignore that sort of thing, but it shouldn't be that tough to identify why some people would care about this.
 

Fennis

Footballguy
As a kid my parents told me I had 2 relatives in Jesse James gang and a relative who signed the Deceleration of Independence. I believed them until I was around 18.

 
More importantly, it calls into question the character of the person herself. What standing does Elizabeth Warren have to call out financial companies who take advantage of loopholes or even outright fraud to get ahead? She had no problem doing this sort of thing when she was starting out and found it convenient to do so.
You really think she made the whole thing up?
 

pantagrapher

Footballguy
As an opponent of affirmative action, I sometimes appreciate having a living, breathing example to point to so I don't have to make up crazy hypotheticals to establish a point.
I have absolutely no idea what this means or what you are referencing.
Seriously? She's been pilloried for lying about being part-Cherokee and using that advance her academic career.
Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
As you know, I think affirmative action is unjust. When people who actually qualify for affirmative action take advantage of it (e.g. Clarence Thomas, let's say), that's okay with me. After all, I don't approve of Social Security, but I didn't ask for that program to be created and I'd vote against it if given the chance, so given that it's part of the world that I live in, I'll play along. If other people choose to do the same with affirmative action, no problem.That said, when somebody just makes stuff up and lies about their ethnic background as a way of gaming the system, that raises two more issues. Like I mentioned before, it does help illustrate the absurdity and general wrongness of the implied one-drop rule that underlies most affirmative action policies. But that's really the more minor point. More importantly, it calls into question the character of the person herself. What standing does Elizabeth Warren have to call out financial companies who take advantage of loopholes or even outright fraud to get ahead? She had no problem doing this sort of thing when she was starting out and found it convenient to do so. I find it difficult to believe that you sincerely don't see why somebody like me would find this episode particularly galling. I know the issue came up during a high-profile campaign, and there's always a tendency to ignore that sort of thing, but it shouldn't be that tough to identify why some people would care about this.
You're usually a reasonable guy. Surprised to see you clinging to this ridiculous story.
 

Sinn Fein

Footballguy
What standing does Elizabeth Warren have to call out financial companies who take advantage of loopholes or even outright fraud to get ahead? She had no problem doing this sort of thing when she was starting out and found it convenient to do so.
I think this is the standard most in congress uses - which explains why financial companies and executives run amok in DC and elsewhere.

Its time to re-evaluate priorities imo.

 

Jewell

Footballguy
“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”
If a banker or businessman knew that they were engaged in illegal activity (including violating international sanctions), or reasonably should have known that they were engaged in illegal activity given the circumstances, I agree with Warren.
 
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Socrates11

Footballguy
:goodposting:

I'm generally center-right on most things, but I'm a big fan. I don't expect her to be perfect. Compared to most of the other dooshes populating the halls of Congress she's a definite breath of fresh air.

 

southeastjerome

Footballguy
Elizabeth Warren is a fraud who won an election against a superior candidate because she ran in a state in which voters flocked to the polls and voted for a political party and not a person.

Not that this board is any different with people so wanting to argue for their party, they lose sight of good people and politics.

 

bostonfred

Footballguy
As a kid my parents told me I had 2 relatives in Jesse James gang and a relative who signed the Deceleration of Independence. I believed them until I was around 18.
Maybe they just wanted to slow down your independence and thought it would help to show it was a family tradition.
 

bostonfred

Footballguy
I think she's doing a fantastic job of bringing these things to light publicly, but let's see if anything comes of it.

 
More importantly, it calls into question the character of the person herself. What standing does Elizabeth Warren have to call out financial companies who take advantage of loopholes or even outright fraud to get ahead? She had no problem doing this sort of thing when she was starting out and found it convenient to do so.
You really think she made the whole thing up?
Hi.
 

NCCommish

Footballguy
Elizabeth Warren is a fraud who won an election against a superior candidate because she ran in a state in which voters flocked to the polls and voted for a political party and not a person. Not that this board is any different with people so wanting to argue for their party, they lose sight of good people and politics.
Yeah and yet those same people voted for the allegedly superior candidate last time. So did they only just start voting for political parties this cycle or was it maybe that the superior candidate wasn't?
 

NCCommish

Footballguy
“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”
If a banker or businessman knew that they were engaged in illegal activity (including violating international sanctions), or reasonably should have known that they were engaged in illegal activity given the circumstances, I agree with Warren.
They were allegedly warned to stop their activities by regulators and kept right on. They knew and someone should be in jail.
 
Elizabeth Warren is a fraud who won an election against a superior candidate because she ran in a state in which voters flocked to the polls and voted for a political party and not a person. Not that this board is any different with people so wanting to argue for their party, they lose sight of good people and politics.
Yeah and yet those same people voted for the allegedly superior candidate last time. So did they only just start voting for political parties this cycle or was it maybe that the superior candidate wasn't?
It wasn't actually the same people. The Coakley/Brown election was a special election, the Warren/Brown election was held on a Presidential election day. Lots of people vote in Presidential elections that don't vote in special Senate elections.
 

Brony

Footballguy
“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”
Pretty much the same thing Grandmaster Melle Mel said in White Lines.
He's out on bail and out of jail and that's the way it goes.
 

Joe T

Footballguy
Really? Lying about your race to further your career is no big deal?If she were a Republican, she would have been branded the most awful person ever and a racist.
It seems a bit far-fetched to believe that she just made the thing up out of wholecloth to receive preferential treatment. It seems credible that she just believed what her mom had told her.
I believed a lot of stuff my dad told me when I was a kid, but I actually looked into it when I got older and found out he was FoS.
:lol:
 

Dinsy Ejotuz

Footballguy
Anyone that focuses on this whole 'Native American' silliness and ignores her decades of work on banking and why the middle class is being hollowed out is missing the forest for the trees.

 

Joe T

Footballguy
[Yeah I know the GOP turned that into brouhaha that was just another episode of trying to play gotcha with nothing. But I still have no idea what you are trying to say.
One of the primary criticisms of affirmative action is that it sometimes unfairly helps people without justification, at the expense of other people. If Elizabeth Warren got any preferences for being part Cherokee, that would be a pretty good example of this.
On Tuesday, Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) went birther on Elizabeth Warren. "Serious questions have been raised about the legitimacy of Elizabeth Warren's claims to Native American ancestry," Brown said in a statement released to the press.

But given the available evidence concerning Warren's ancestry, Brown is essentially implying there may have been an elaborate, years-long effort to fake his opponent's heritage—not unlike the conspiracy envisioned by right-wing activists who sought "answers" about President Obama's citizenship. (The Brown campaign did not respond to multiple requests for comment.)

This faux controversy stems from a series of articles in the Boston Herald, which reported that Warren had listed herself as Native American in a Harvard Law School faculty directory. (Brown's top adviser, Eric Fehrnstrom, is a former Herald reporter.) This fueled criticism on the right that Warren had falsely claimed Native American status to advance her legal career. Now this bizarre kerfuffle has snowballed well beyond that, as conservatives pursue an in-depth probe of Warren's great-great-great grandmother's ethnicity and whether Warren's great-great-great-uncle lied about it.

What's known is this: As the Herald reported after publishing its initial story on Warren's background, researchers at the New England Historical Genealogical Society believe that one of Warren's great-great-great grandmothers, a woman named O.C. Sarah Smith, was Cherokee. If O.C. Sarah Smith was full-blooded, that would make Warren at least 1/32 Cherokee. (While that may seem insubstantial, Bill John Baker, the principal chief of the Cherokee nation, is also 1/32 Cherokee.) The NEHGS based its claim on a March 2006 newsletter referencing research by a woman named Lynda Smith. The newsletter reports that while digging into her own ancestry, Smith found a marriage application in which William J. Crawford, a son of O.C. Sarah Smith, listed his mother's race as Cherokee.

The NEHGS considers the newsletter to be a legitimate source, says Tom Champoux, a spokesman for the group. "Genealogists do reference research conducted by others, with further verification sometimes provided," he said in an emailed statement. "In the case of Native American research, it's not uncommon for families to pass down family histories orally, especially with earlier generations, as paper evidence and primary documents were not kept." But in this case there is a primary document cited—the marriage application.

Even this, however, has not been enough for Warren's critics. A day after publishing its story revealing the marriage application, the Herald published a follow-up implying the document may not actually exist. The article argued that genealogists had been "unable to back up earlier accounts" of Warren's ancestry because a copy of the marriage application has yet to be produced. Over at Breitbart.com, Michael Patrick Leahy, whose hobby is genealogy, has chimed in with a new wrinkle. Based on Census and other records, he argues that William J. Crawford either lied or was mistaken about his mother's race:

[W]hy would Ms. Warren's great-great-grand-uncle make up such a thing? Perhaps he showed the same kind of tendency towards ancestral "embellishment" that she herself seems to exhibit, or perhaps there was some logistical or tactical benefit in the Oklahoma Territory of 1894 to him and his intended bride that encouraged him to make the claim. Or perhaps he believed it to be true, even though in all probability it was not. We will likely never know.

(It's hard to imagine why a man wouldn't know his own mother's ethnicity. At a time when Native Americans were being herded onto reservations at gunpoint, it's unclear what conceivable benefit there would have been to falsely claiming Native American status. And even if William J. Crawford did lie for some reason, it's hard to see how Warren could have known about it.)

By jumping into this controversy, Brown seems to be embracing the same tortured, birther-esque arguments as the conservatives who are trying to paint Warren (and her great-great-great-uncle) as a liar. Perhaps the better question is why Brown is raising these "serious questions" to begin with.

Mother Jones
Seems like more birther crap to me. So it may be an example of something but a strike against affirmative action not so much.
What's the statute of limitations on claiming an ethnicity? 1/32 doesn't seem like much to me, but maybe it is a reasonable amount by current standards?

 

wikkidpissah

Footballguy
Anyone that focuses on this whole 'Native American' silliness and ignores her decades of work on banking and why the middle class is being hollowed out is missing the forest for the trees.
you shoulda seen the squirm, though, as Warren tried to get voters past the scandal - one of the most pathetic things ive seen in the political arena
 

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