DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Totally agree. The effects can be mitigated on the business. But it still goes on. Some of the best employees are often, some of the worst. I’m one of them.
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I want to become a culinary chef (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wazoo11
- Start date
heckmanm
Footballguy
Yes, but it's still a question of how much one pays for the raw product and how much yield they can get from the finished product.
I think a key question is how much sellable meat one gets from an 8 pound raw Boston Butt. That's the first step in knowing your profit. Then factoring in the other costs with labor and other materials. But that raw meat in to finished and sellable meat out question is a big one. What's your take there?
On this topic:
Freakonomics Podcast: Why You Shouldn’t Open a Restaurant
I am just a few minutes in but it's about Serious Eats' J. Kenzi Lopez-Alt and his restaurant.
Freakonomics Podcast: Why You Shouldn’t Open a Restaurant
I am just a few minutes in but it's about Serious Eats' J. Kenzi Lopez-Alt and his restaurant.
dkp993
Footballguy
Joe what your referring too is known in the business as "shrinkage" and it runs across every aspect of F&B (even alcohol). The amount of shrinkage varies wildly but for food 20% is a decent quick calc number to use.
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Brownsfan
Footballguy
I agree with this wholeheartedly. In the restaurant business workers feel like they are underpaid, under appreciated or whatever and they devise ways to even the score. They can sell drinks without ringing them up, void food off bills etc. Also the cooks and dishwashers will sell food to the servers or take food out with the trash and then pick it up later. There are countless ways for employees to profit at the owners expense. Now i have found less of this in clubs and even less in senior living. But make no mistake it happens in every establishment and often time it is the people you would least suspect.
Drinking on the job is commonplace and it usually is provided by the bartender without the owners knowledge.. Cooks usually supply their own drugs, bartenders can trade liquor for them or take money form the register. Depends on how busy the place is. Servers want to sleep with bartenders or other servers, cooks want to sleep with servers. Drama is non stop. We just had a murder here in Cleveland where two cooks stabbed another over something stupid.
Thank you. Makes total sense.
I'll weigh one tomorrow that I'm cooking but my gut feel is it's a fair bit worse than normal just simply because of the long process where so much fat renders. Plus the bone is removed. And in the way I do it, I remove a lot of the fat during the "pulling" stage that doesn't get used.
I've always heard it was closer to 50% for pork. And for sure, that's a "downside" of BBQ. A steak that's cooked for just a few minutes would have only a tiny bit of shrinkage obviously.
But it's why I was so interested in @TheFanatic's insight that pork shoulder was so profitable.
Some of the best employees are often, some of the worst. I’m one of them.
Now you really have to elaborate.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I know nothing about pork butts. Or shrinkage. Hey OH!. But the refrain is the same across all restaurants. Waste not, want not, and all that. Yesterday’s baked potato is today’s potato au gratin. Those croutons in your Caesar salad, bread from 3-4 days ago. That bread pudding, same bread from 3-4 days ago. Etc back when they fed people on planes, I think it was American, eliminated 2 olives from their salad. It saved something ridiculous, 8 million plus if I remember correctly
Costs must be saved anywhere and everywhere.
Costs must be saved anywhere and everywhere.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I don't know the answer. It was told to me by Melissa Cookston who is co owner of Memphis BBQ in and around Memphis and also a place called Steak. She was also inducted into the BBQ hall of fame at the Royal 3 years ago. She knew exactly how many she could sell from each pork shoulder and how much she made. I could probably reach out to her and ask, or maybe ask when I see her at Memphis in May. She and I are both working for Prairie Fresh Pork for that event.
Thanks. I'd love to hear from her when you talk to her. And I'm afraid I've crossed up posts too. What was it Cookston told you? Thanks.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
She was the one who told me that the pork shoulder was the key to a profitable BBQ restaurant. Tons of profit it each shoulder.
Cool. Thanks. If you get to talk to her more about it, I'd love to know what kind of yield she gets. Or what is the shrinkage. In other words, an X pound raw Boston Butt will yield Y pounds of sellable meat.
And any other thoughts she had on the restaurant business.
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DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
@Joe Bryant
you may dismiss my tales as tall ones. But I assure you, they are real. And quite common.
The favorite bartender, the one, that is all the guests favorite? He drinks every shift. He feeds the staff drinks too. He also gives them away to the guests. Aka, he’s stealing from the owners. He’s also dealing coke and weed. But don’t forget, he’s by far, the best they have. He has the best sales, the least complaints, the most compliments. Saves the owner 10-12 hours a week in labor, because he can handle the entire bar with ease. He’s also the owner’s favorite employee. Do you keep him?
you may dismiss my tales as tall ones. But I assure you, they are real. And quite common.
The favorite bartender, the one, that is all the guests favorite? He drinks every shift. He feeds the staff drinks too. He also gives them away to the guests. Aka, he’s stealing from the owners. He’s also dealing coke and weed. But don’t forget, he’s by far, the best they have. He has the best sales, the least complaints, the most compliments. Saves the owner 10-12 hours a week in labor, because he can handle the entire bar with ease. He’s also the owner’s favorite employee. Do you keep him?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
You deleted my post? Feel free to take down the other one. I’m simply telling the truth.
simey
Footballguy
A guy I have known for many years was the most popular bartender in the Nags Head area. He was well liked and had the cushiest job in the area as the head bartender at a very popular establishment, and worked there for years. Regulars came in just to drink and chat with him. He made a lot of money. I can't remember if someone said something to the owner about stuff going on there, or if he just suspected things were, but he told the guy and the rest of the staff not to drink on the job, give out free drinks, etc. The owner put up a hidden camera, and the guy was caught on tape repeatedly drinking on the job, smoking pot in the back, etc. The owner fired him.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
You want to know about the BBQ restaurant business? Come to Memphis in May. I'll introduce you to Melissa along with Brad and Brooke Orrison (owners of the Shed), Leslie Roark (owner of Ubonn's), John David Wheeler (Melissa's partner at Memphis BBQ), Carey Bringle (Peg Leg Porker), Tuffy Stone, Chris Lilly, David Stidham (Fine Swine), Mike Johnson (SugarFire). I'm not kidding. If you want to learn about BBQ I can put you in front of all the BBQ royalty you could possibly handle. Come for the weekend, come for a day, come for an afternoon, you will walk away with more BBQ restaurant knowledge and connections than you can possibly handle. That and we can hang out with the one and only @[icon] which is well worth it on its own.Joe Bryant said:
Thanks a lot. That's generous of you. I'd love to take you up on that and will see what I can do. I'll shoot you a PM. I was fortunate to a guest of @icon's there a few years back but haven't been in a while.
I was worried the last thing any of those folks wanted at MIM was a guy like me asking questions about business.
On side note, my driveway is smelling pretty good this morning. https://twitter.com/Football_Guys/status/1110899882418683905
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Can you talk BBQ? I mean, just speak the language? That and an introduction is about all you need to become a member of the BBQ family. I can handle the latter. Also, Bo Jackson is going to be there. His company and my company partner with another company and are going to be doing some collab work while there. So there's a BOnus. See what I did there?
Yes. I'll be fine talking BBQ. I can't talk the gas cookers most all of those people you listed use but that's fine as they don't like to talk about that either.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Yeah, most of them are fans of the Ole Hickory cookers. I wouldn't bring that up.Yes. I'll be fine talking BBQ. I can't talk the gas cookers most all of those people you listed use but that's fine as they don't like to talk about that either.
I'll be spending a bunch of time with Melissa and the Orrison's as those two are both Prairie Fresh sponsored as well, and they are very easy to talk to about just about anything. The latter crew won memphis in may last year with their whole hog and I think Melissa has won it something like 5 times.
For sure. I won't bring it up. I know my way well around that kind of stuff. Some of those places have the "authentic whole wood burning pit" thrust way out in the front of his restaurant. With cobwebs in it. With a bunch of Ole Hickory's and Southern Prides going hard in the back. Way out of sight.
But that also goes back to some of the stuff we've talked about here. Restaurant work is hard. Cooking BBQ on live fire the way some of the legendary places do is incredibly hard. So I totally get it. Mike Mills at 17th St told me he uses a gas cooker so he can have a life. I get it.
Bottom line, I'll be cool.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I'm not at all concerned.
It's a work life balance thing. I used to be the biggest charcoal snob. Swore I would never own a gas grill. I use gas all the time now. Why? I had kids. The days of coming home from work and cooking a couple slabs for dinner are over. I cook on gas through the week and charcoal on the weekends.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Keep in mind, pork butt isn't just for pulled pork. It's also the base for sausage (amongst other things) everywhere but TX. And pork butt is by far the cheapest base meat available. Turning .99 a pound butt into 5.99 (or more) a pound sausage by grinding it, adding spices, and casing it is a pretty neat trick.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Looks great. Glad to see you cooking with splits. That pit looks perfect for butts. Is it custom?
Thank you. Yes, it's a homemade trailer. I love it. I've cooked on it for 10 years now and know it well.
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msommer
Footballguy
This seems like a case where "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - assuming the guy is profitable overall
The profitability thing is super interesting.
The higher quality Boston Butts Pork Shoulders are 1.28 per pound raw. Factoring 50% shrinkage, that puts my cost at $2.56 per pound of sellable meat.
Say a pork sandwich has .5 pound of meat on it. That's $1.28 my cost. Say you sell the sandwich for $5.
That's 25% food cost before the bun, slaw, sauce, plate and napkin.
And nothing for the wood to burn and the 18 hours of labor to cook the BBQ.
That just seems pretty tough.
Now the answer of course, is you start skimping. Buy the lesser grade raw meat. And put 1/3 pound instead of half a pound. Or charge a little more. It just seems like a tough spot.
The higher quality Boston Butts Pork Shoulders are 1.28 per pound raw. Factoring 50% shrinkage, that puts my cost at $2.56 per pound of sellable meat.
Say a pork sandwich has .5 pound of meat on it. That's $1.28 my cost. Say you sell the sandwich for $5.
That's 25% food cost before the bun, slaw, sauce, plate and napkin.
And nothing for the wood to burn and the 18 hours of labor to cook the BBQ.
That just seems pretty tough.
Now the answer of course, is you start skimping. Buy the lesser grade raw meat. And put 1/3 pound instead of half a pound. Or charge a little more. It just seems like a tough spot.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Joe you’re always welcome. @tipsy mcstagger Cooks for hundreds daily as well so he’s a good brain to pick on the restaurant side. He will be there obviously.
Also his sous pitmaster ben that comes up from NOLA is about to get his exec chef certification (whatever that is, it’s prestigious) and runs the kitchen for the top country club down there... cooks a ton of bbq too (but not as much as Neil).
Between them and the folks Fanatic is talking about, you’d get a great crossection of opinions from some serious bbq restauraunteurs. I know Melissa is about as sweet as they come.
We’ve grown up a LOT since last time you’ve been too. Try to be there Friday afternoon 2-4 or so.... ancillaries coming off plus incredible band starting up.
Pics of the pit looked great btw! Love that you still do that for the homeless in Knox.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Ask tipsy... if you can’t make a nice chunk on booze/beverages, you BETTER be damn good at managing efficiencies / minimizing waste. He’s very successful with huge runs of catering gigs and still has tough spots.
