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I'd like to see the Pats trade Graham (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bri
- Start date
Adrian Peterson
Footballguy
The intent to trading Graham is for greedy owners who have Watson - why else would the Pats move him? DO they not remember his TD this year that rumbled down the field bowling over players?how is this good posting? There's been tons of discussion not necessarily related to FF
Boston
Footballguy
While I was away I missed some posts...
I have not seen one positive reason to trade Graham. Not one. I'd love to hear again why dealing him makes the Pats a better team. Especially when they are very close to going the distance in 2006.
Also:
*The Pats are ridiculously thin at WR right now. In 2005 they had Givens and Branch and that was pretty much it. Dwight and Davis did little and Troy is nothing more than a role player (Bethel is garbage who did zip last year...his third year with the team). The corps will be retooled but a lot of work has to be done.
*The Pats do not have a "real" FB on their roster.. Evans was a mid-season signing who was here due to injuries. He did not play too much FB with the Pats either as he was carrying the ball while Dillon and Faulk (and Pass) were hurt. Pass can play FB but he's not really one. He's not a very good blocker and is more of a tweener who's best success has come as a HB.
I have not seen one positive reason to trade Graham. Not one. I'd love to hear again why dealing him makes the Pats a better team. Especially when they are very close to going the distance in 2006.
Also:
*The Pats are ridiculously thin at WR right now. In 2005 they had Givens and Branch and that was pretty much it. Dwight and Davis did little and Troy is nothing more than a role player (Bethel is garbage who did zip last year...his third year with the team). The corps will be retooled but a lot of work has to be done.
*The Pats do not have a "real" FB on their roster.. Evans was a mid-season signing who was here due to injuries. He did not play too much FB with the Pats either as he was carrying the ball while Dillon and Faulk (and Pass) were hurt. Pass can play FB but he's not really one. He's not a very good blocker and is more of a tweener who's best success has come as a HB.
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First of all, I don't care how much tight end talent is available coming out of college, Daniel Graham is good for probably a 2nd, and no worse than a 3rd. He blocks like a tackle, and can make plays in the passing game. With the injuries last year, he spent far more time blocking than pass catching, but he can do it. He's only about 25, and just coming into his prime. He's not Gates or Gonzalez, but he's a very solid NFL player. Somebody mentioned that TE's gain value when somebody needs one, right? Well last year, somebody gave up a #1 for Doug Jolley.
That said, the Pats would be foolish to trade a player like Dan Graham. Never whines, just goes out and plays. He drops some balls, but so does everybody. Even for a first rounder, I wouldn't move him.
That said, the Pats would be foolish to trade a player like Dan Graham. Never whines, just goes out and plays. He drops some balls, but so does everybody. Even for a first rounder, I wouldn't move him.
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huh? IF an NFL team had no TEs that team would probably pay handsomely for "a Graham like TE". What do you want a number? OK if there was such a team that had no TEs, they'd probably give up a first round pick for "a Graham like TE".Again, there's no such team with no TEsIt's fairly obvious you're dodging the question at this point.The Patriots and every other team in the NFL has TEs. If a team didn't I suppose they'd pay handsomely for "a Graham like TE". Since every team has TEs the point of this was.....
David Yudkin
Footballguy
To make Bri feel like there could be a market for Graham . . .
Team TE totals from 2005:
SFO 20-158-0
BUF 23-165-0
HOU 28-216-0
CHI 28-250-3
STL 31-264-2
CIN 37-309-2
JAC 34-326-3
OAK 30-340-3
CAR 35-357-4
Team TE totals from 2005:
SFO 20-158-0
BUF 23-165-0
HOU 28-216-0
CHI 28-250-3
STL 31-264-2
CIN 37-309-2
JAC 34-326-3
OAK 30-340-3
CAR 35-357-4
trdferguson
Footballguy
Do you realize the fact that Culpeeper is being shopped for a second round pick(a lot possibly due to contract) and you would expect the Pats to get a first day pick for a marginal TE? I could not ever see this happening. What was Dillon traded to the Pats for? And we are talking about a top back(aside from last year).
I'm not offended. Annoyed a little with some posts(not necessarily yours) but then again if people get interested in a topic that comes with the territory. It's really no big deal.Allow me to try again to explain my thinking.
Brady is the only star they have on O. I'm not sure if it's an Elway(most of his career) and Marino thought but I feel like Brady is awesome but maybe not enough to win it all.
The last time they went to the Supe Dillon missed a game or two and wasn't so far off from leading the NFL in rushing. Remember Elway couldn't win without TD and then they were so tough to beat with those two. Well maybe we need another star on O.
RB? Well we'd probably lose a bunch of $ cutting Dillon for some "name" player that would in turn cost a ton more. With Faulk and Pass around, I'm OK with our trio of RBs. Maybe we lack a star there now since Dillon's aging but I'm OK with them. I like that Pass can play FB/HB and that Evans can too.
WR? Man I can't recall anyone other than Glenn as a rookie in "forever" for the Pats. Irving Fryar years ago? Maybe getting some guy like Owens Moss Holt(whomever) would be the star we need but what would we have to give up? And then their contract is so large would we also have to cut someone to get under the cap with their big contract?
TE, we've got two gems. Two gems that share time and Watson seems more special than Graham. It won't cost us anything to shift the focus more toward Watson and see if he can be this star I'd like them to have. Stars you try to get the ball in their hands as much as possible. Watson's 25(guess) receptions isn't enough. I want it in his hands more so he can possibly be that star.
Suppose you all are right and they'll keep Graham. Same thinking as above, I'd like him to play a lesser amount so Watson gets more involved.
The LBers are the heart of BBs D. If this draft is deep in LBers, well then I want some. What pick(LBer) could Graham fetch in a trade? I don't know. Some here have said Graham won't fetch much in return and it'll be a later pick. While I don't agree with that, if I had to bet I'd put my money on BB that he could evaluate the college talent and find a LBer he likes with that pick. Who knows though, right?
Back to the TE production-pick a TE that you think has excellent talent and what that team gets from him/ 60 catches? 50? whatever it's far less than what Watson gives them. The Pats have a player capable of X amount of production, I want that. Whatever it is, I want what Watson can give this team. The full amount, not some part time shpeal.
Also the Pats have tons of role players and multi-faceted players that fill different roles. While that's essential to winning in the NFL and I love that quality they look for in players, at some point it's too much. The lunchpail guys are supposed to be in addition to stars filling their role. If all we have is lunchpail guys then we'll be an average team. I think in 2005 we relied on our lunchpail guys at times to produce like stars. Pass, Evans, pick a WR. I'd rather them be used in spots like Brown make a tough catch or Branch run over the middle and snag one for an important 3rd down or maybe Evans pounds out a crucial 4th and 1. However, I'd like Watson to be given the chance to put this team on his back and carry them. Alot of weeks, Brady reminds me of Elway and Marino and I feel like he's gotta be perfect for us to win. I just want him to have to play well. I think another star on O would do that.
Sorry for the rambling, +hopping around topic to topic, long day playing Mr. Mom
The jury is still out on Culpepper.There's a thread here how Mark Curnette thinks Carson will play in preseason and "everyone" was down on him. In February it's customary to be "down" on a player. Will Daunte rehab and be well enough to play in September? I don't know, probably no one knows how his knee will respond. The people saying he wasn't going to be are the same ones that said Carson wouldn't so I'm not gonna run with that thought. I know Palmer has played with a knee brace for as long as I can remember(I don't follow college ball) so if Daunte needed to I think it could be done and he could be OK. It's a bit different because Carson sits tight while Daunte uses his legs more, but maybe Daunte's an OK pocket passer and we never knew. Maybe he'd stink just sitting in the pocket. It's way too early to know. He had an awesome season 2 years ago. It's possible a 2nd round pick for him would be an absolute steal. It's also possible his knee is "shot" and it'll be a waste. Way too early to tell.
the team's website has Pass as a FBhttp://www.patriots.com/depthchart.cfm
He was drafted as a FB in 2000 in the 7th round
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2000
If the team and the league consider him a FB......
trdferguson
Footballguy
The jury is still out on Culpepper.
There's a thread here how Mark Curnette thinks Carson will play in preseason and "everyone" was down on him. In February it's customary to be "down" on a player. Will Daunte rehab and be well enough to play in September? I don't know, probably no one knows how his knee will respond. The people saying he wasn't going to be are the same ones that said Carson wouldn't so I'm not gonna run with that thought. I know Palmer has played with a knee brace for as long as I can remember(I don't follow college ball) so if Daunte needed to I think it could be done and he could be OK. It's a bit different because Carson sits tight while Daunte uses his legs more, but maybe Daunte's an OK pocket passer and we never knew. Maybe he'd stink just sitting in the pocket. It's way too early to know. He had an awesome season 2 years ago. It's possible a 2nd round pick for him would be an absolute steal. It's also possible his knee is "shot" and it'll be a waste. Way too early to tell.
I am still just making the statement in response to the possibility of recieving a first day pick for a tight end. It just wont happen. It would be great for that to happen(being that it is your team recieving the high pick) but in reality it is not going to happen. A Gates/Gonzalez/maybe Heap...maybe. Other than a few it is very far fetched. Culpepper with his knee even at 80 percent could still warrant a 2nd/3rd rounder. Who knows though. That is why we are here to discuss it.
There's a thread here how Mark Curnette thinks Carson will play in preseason and "everyone" was down on him. In February it's customary to be "down" on a player. Will Daunte rehab and be well enough to play in September? I don't know, probably no one knows how his knee will respond. The people saying he wasn't going to be are the same ones that said Carson wouldn't so I'm not gonna run with that thought. I know Palmer has played with a knee brace for as long as I can remember(I don't follow college ball) so if Daunte needed to I think it could be done and he could be OK. It's a bit different because Carson sits tight while Daunte uses his legs more, but maybe Daunte's an OK pocket passer and we never knew. Maybe he'd stink just sitting in the pocket. It's way too early to know. He had an awesome season 2 years ago. It's possible a 2nd round pick for him would be an absolute steal. It's also possible his knee is "shot" and it'll be a waste. Way too early to tell.
I am still just making the statement in response to the possibility of recieving a first day pick for a tight end. It just wont happen. It would be great for that to happen(being that it is your team recieving the high pick) but in reality it is not going to happen. A Gates/Gonzalez/maybe Heap...maybe. Other than a few it is very far fetched. Culpepper with his knee even at 80 percent could still warrant a 2nd/3rd rounder. Who knows though. That is why we are here to discuss it.
well I only know what I'd want and I'm no NFL GM, as you know. If I were drafting and the top TEs were gone I'd want Graham. You plug him in instantly while the TEs still left will probably have to sit and learn. He's likely got as much talent if not more and counting playoff games he's got a ton of experience for a player with as few seasons as he has. When will the top few be gone? Who knows, pick a mock to check. Will a good Lber I want them to take with the pick be available then? who knows, pick a mock.I do think he's considerably better than a very large percentage of rookie TEs that could be drafted.
Boston
Footballguy
Do you watch them play? If you do tell me how often you see Pass lined up as a FB with a RB behind him. He is listed as a FB and always has been. There's no secret to that. Yet, if you watch the Pats play it's plain as day to see he is not used in the traditional FB role that often. By the way you seem to be concluding that Watson can only be successful without Graham around. That just isn't the case. Pretty much every Patriot fan expects Watson to assume the role of a top end, potentially All Pro level TE in the near future. Yet, that can easily be accomplished with Graham in the mix. Not only can that be accomplished but it makes the offense as a whole more effective with far more depth.
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
NE needs Watson and Graham.
Adrian Peterson
Footballguy
Not a strong stat - some teams do not use their TE in passing downs like San Diego or another team might.
