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If Jalen Hurts Gets 100+ Rushing Touchdowns = Hall of Fame? (2 Viewers)

Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.

And you can continue to wait. I'm not going to play your silly "if you don't answer my question then I'm right" game. What you're asking is irrelevant to the conversation about the actual play itself, which is the actual topic. You're trying to derail the conversation by throwing up smoke screens and misdirects.

Besides, you will not accept anything other than what you want so why bother? You're so invested in defending a cheat code play that you're unwilling to listen to anything else. You're even to the point of making stuff up about me.

That's fine, but you're not going to be able to shut down the conversation.
 
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Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.

Go bro go.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.

Go bro go.
You're on a roll! You keep doing you. :thumbup:
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.

And you can continue to wait. I'm not going to play your silly "if you don't answer my question then I'm right" game. What you're asking is irrelevant to the conversation about the actual play itself, which is the actual topic. You're trying to derail the conversation by throwing up smoke screens and misdirects.

Besides, you will not accept anything other than what you want so why bother? You're so invested in defending a cheat code play that you're unwilling to listen to anything else. You're even to the point of making stuff up about me.

That's fine, but you're not going to be able to shut down the conversation.
Right. You claimed the Eagles wouldn't make the playoffs last year without the Tush Push. I asked you to back that up or give a possible scenario how that's possible, and you cowardly danced around it/ran from the question/horribly deflected the subject.

I will accept something other than what I want, and sure there's a reason to bother... so what 5 games would they have lost without it? Can you even name 3? or 2? Or were you trolling when you implied they'd be 9-8 instead of 14-3 without that play.

We're waiting...
Not playing your games, like I said. Despite your claims, you're unable to accept anything other than what you want to hear.

You can dance with someone else.
 
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For people that buy into the HOF Score metric, Hurts has the 12th highest score for current QB (with a score of 41.35). The average HOF QB has a score of 108, but that is going to get bumped up a little with Brady, Rodgers, and Brees going in in the next 5+ years.

The formula cares more about winning, awards, and rankings. From a passing perspective, Hurts isn’t going to put up huge passing numbers. If PHI keeps winning and Hurts gets more consideration for individual accolades, his score will continue to increase. Considering that Hurts hasn’t started a ton of games, his score is actually pretty high.

But IMO, if the Eagles are middle of the road the next 3 years, if Hurts got to 100 rushing TD and quit playing, I don’t think he would make it in. But I doubt that will happen, and with multiple successful seasons in the future, the 100 rushing TD would be more icing than anything else.
 
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I think he will get dinged because for a lot of the TDs he got pushed in. Not saying it's right or wrong.
Fair enough! I feel its one of those things that will eventually become a good thing - for the game etc. Its unique and no one has ever done it before.
What play rugby?

Sure.

If it were not your Eagles you would not be saying this.

It’s a hot garbage play.

Let’s all get behind the guy and push him him in.

Super entertaining.

We all have our opinions no one is right or wrong but it will get banned soon enough.

The NFL is becoming a circus league anyway. They have lost their way long term. And that’s a whole other conversation with legalized sports betting and how that is going to destroy this game long term.

Anyway…..HOF QB? Are we really asking that about Jalen Hurts at this stage? Because he gets pushed into the endzone on a Rubgy play?

Wow.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.

Troll = Posters I disagree with
 
The NFL is becoming a circus league anyway. They have lost their way long term. And that’s a whole other conversation with legalized sports betting and how that is going to destroy this game long term.
Gambling will chase some people away and keep others glued. I fully agree that the constant pushing of DFS, prop bets, etc are big turn offs. Then there’s the price charged to watch millionaires play a game for billionaire owners, all of which are more bothersome than this one play which was used 0.28% of the time last season.
 
. The baseball HOF is (usually) about stats. The football HOF is not. It’s about narrative. Hurts’ rushing TD numbers won’t determine whether he gets in. His overall contribution to the narrative of his era will.
This is a strong point.
:2cents: hurts has been an important part of the narrative. If that continues another 5 years, no matter the controversy over a currently legal play, he’ll get in.
 
lol you're so clueless.

Tired of asking. You folks take some time off and please be more cool and stop ruining threads if you come back. And @Deamon tired of asking you stop the :lmao: on posts you're laughing at or mocking. We dropped that emoji in the past because of that. Would prefer to keep it going but you continually refusing to be cool with that is tiring.
 
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The NFL is becoming a circus league anyway. They have lost their way long term. And that’s a whole other conversation with legalized sports betting and how that is going to destroy this game long term.
Gambling will chase some people away and keep others glued. I fully agree that the constant pushing of DFS, prop bets, etc are big turn offs. Then there’s the price charged to watch millionaires play a game for billionaire owners, all of which are more bothersome than this one play which was used 0.28% of the time last season.
I can agree with that.

The NFL has far more deeper issues they will encounter in the coming years than a play used .28% of the time.

In fact the NFL and NBA are going to be in for some big pain in the next decade once they are both fully behind paywalls, have completely unattainable prices points for the average fan...I mean it's gonna get a lot worse than it already is.

MLB....I don't even know how they make revenue like they do anymore. It's my favorite sport by far and all I see for the most part are 1/4-1/3 filled parks in 75% of their markets. And 5-6teams ruling the roost....that's a whole other topic.

The NHL is king for me......and that league has it going the right way.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.

No its worse
 
I think he will get dinged because for a lot of the TDs he got pushed in. Not saying it's right or wrong.
Fair enough! I feel its one of those things that will eventually become a good thing - for the game etc. Its unique and no one has ever done it before.
What play rugby?

Sure.

If it were not your Eagles you would not be saying this.

It’s a hot garbage play.

Let’s all get behind the guy and push him him in.

Super entertaining.

We all have our opinions no one is right or wrong but it will get banned soon enough.

The NFL is becoming a circus league anyway. They have lost their way long term. And that’s a whole other conversation with legalized sports betting and how that is going to destroy this game long term.

Anyway…..HOF QB? Are we really asking that about Jalen Hurts at this stage? Because he gets pushed into the endzone on a Rubgy play?

Wow.

You must have missed the 2 superbowls jalen has started and out played mahomes both times
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.

No its worse

You've got more drama than a Mexican Soap Opera. Lighten up. It's OK if someone has a different opinion. Seriously, you'll be all right.
 
Just something I have been thinking about since the Tush Push got a reprieve yesterday.

Currently is at 55 for his career, just starting for 4 seasons fully.

Cam Newton has the most with 75

Josh Allen is at 65 but thats with exactly 2 more seasons worth of games played at 34 more.

Currently 10 Running backs have 100+ rushing touchdowns and every single one other than Shaun Alexander is in the HOF.

High winning %

2 Super Bowls, 1 Win and Couting

1 Super Bowl MVP and counting

After this season he should be close to 70 rushing touchdowns, based off the past 3 seasons with the TP.

Am I crazy?
I’d say he’d be a lock. 🔒

If he wins another ring he might be a lock anyway. He’s a better QB statistically than Plunkett or Eli, both of whom have 2 but aren’t in (I suspect Eli will get in, though) and he’s a more integral part of his offense than many QBs.

If he has 5 more years of high level play and/or another ring, plus the +45 RuTD you’re suggesting here, then I just don’t see how you keep him out.
 
Just something I have been thinking about since the Tush Push got a reprieve yesterday.

Currently is at 55 for his career, just starting for 4 seasons fully.

Cam Newton has the most with 75

Josh Allen is at 65 but thats with exactly 2 more seasons worth of games played at 34 more.

Currently 10 Running backs have 100+ rushing touchdowns and every single one other than Shaun Alexander is in the HOF.

High winning %

2 Super Bowls, 1 Win and Couting

1 Super Bowl MVP and counting

After this season he should be close to 70 rushing touchdowns, based off the past 3 seasons with the TP.

Am I crazy?
I’d say he’d be a lock. 🔒

If he wins another ring he might be a lock anyway. He’s a better QB statistically than Plunkett or Eli, both of whom have 2 but aren’t in (I suspect Eli will get in, though) and he’s a more integral part of his offense than many QBs.

If he has 5 more years of high level play and/or another ring, plus the +45 RuTD you’re suggesting here, then I just don’t see how you keep him out.

Honestly unless he just craters i think hes in right now
 
Just something I have been thinking about since the Tush Push got a reprieve yesterday.

Currently is at 55 for his career, just starting for 4 seasons fully.

Cam Newton has the most with 75

Josh Allen is at 65 but thats with exactly 2 more seasons worth of games played at 34 more.

Currently 10 Running backs have 100+ rushing touchdowns and every single one other than Shaun Alexander is in the HOF.

High winning %

2 Super Bowls, 1 Win and Couting

1 Super Bowl MVP and counting

After this season he should be close to 70 rushing touchdowns, based off the past 3 seasons with the TP.

Am I crazy?
I’d say he’d be a lock. 🔒

If he wins another ring he might be a lock anyway. He’s a better QB statistically than Plunkett or Eli, both of whom have 2 but aren’t in (I suspect Eli will get in, though) and he’s a more integral part of his offense than many QBs.

If he has 5 more years of high level play and/or another ring, plus the +45 RuTD you’re suggesting here, then I just don’t see how you keep him out.

Honestly unless he just craters i think hes in right now
😳
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.

No its worse

You've got more drama than a Mexican Soap Opera. Lighten up. It's OK if someone has a different opinion. Seriously, you'll be all right.
tush push isn't cheating. NFL said so...so you're lying....it's NOT a matter of opinion.
Tush push adds, at MOST 5 or 6% to the conversion rate, so Eagles would NOT have lost 2 more games, let alone the 4 or 5 you project. AGAIN, NOT a matter of opinion, or at the least, your stated "opinion" is easily and conclusively disproven.

What you're doing is not stating opinion, it's trolling. You are entitled to have and state an opinion, but you aren't entitled to your own set of facts.
 
tush push isn't cheating. NFL said so...so you're lying....it's NOT a matter of opinion.
Tush push adds, at MOST 5 or 6% to the conversion rate, so Eagles would NOT have lost 2 more games, let alone the 4 or 5 you project. AGAIN, NOT a matter of opinion, or at the least, your stated "opinion" is easily and conclusively disproven.
Crazy thought - with saquon’s short distance conversion rate being 31% higher than league average, the eagles likely wouldn’t have lost any additional games if they had just chosen to run him.

Of course, the brotherly shove does give opposing defenses something to try to plan against, but that effect is immeasurable.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.

No its worse

You've got more drama than a Mexican Soap Opera. Lighten up. It's OK if someone has a different opinion. Seriously, you'll be all right.
tush push isn't cheating. NFL said so...so you're lying....it's NOT a matter of opinion.
Tush push adds, at MOST 5 or 6% to the conversion rate, so Eagles would NOT have lost 2 more games, let alone the 4 or 5 you project. AGAIN, NOT a matter of opinion, or at the least, your stated "opinion" is easily and conclusively disproven.

What you're doing is not stating opinion, it's trolling. You are entitled to have and state an opinion, but you aren't entitled to your own set of facts.
So the guy telling me I'm making things up is making things up himself. :doh:

5 to 6%? That's something YOU made up and then tried to pass that off as fact with your "is easily and conclusively proven" phrase. It's not and give us all a break. You're predicting, at best, and that prediction is no better than some fortune-teller at a county fair. And I want to note that all of my posts have ALWAYS been my opinion - I was never passing anything off as fact as you claim. That's a strawman you made up to argue against with your above post. YOU'RE the one trying to pass your opinions and claims off as fact, not me.

And it is cheating, IMO. If it isn't, then why not just pick up Hurts and throw him over the goal line? You cannot assist the runner forward. This used to NOT be an issue and was a common understanding in the game. If you want your "tush-push" - and I want to note that the cheating is LITERALLY in the title of the play - then the DEF needs to have the same leeway.

You're right - you're NOT entitled to your own set of facts so you should probably practice what you preach.
 
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In general, I think rushing TD for QB is a bit of an over hyped stat. IMO, total combined TD is a better barometer. To give some added weight to QBs that play a lot and also have had playoff success, I compiled the total combined TD in the regular season and post season over the past 4 seasons (passing, rushing, and receiving). Here are the guys that had 100+ total TD:

Allen - 195 (2.57 per game)
Mahomes - 171 (2.16)
Hurts - 151 (2.13)
Burrow - 147 (2.23)
Goff - 123 (1.78)
Prescott - 123 (2.16)
Jackson - 121 (1.98)
Herbert - 116 (1.76)
Stafford - 113 (1.77)
Mayfield - 110 (1.75)
Cousins - 104 (1.86)

That's probably a decent snapshot of the top QBs over the last few seasons.
 
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Just something I have been thinking about since the Tush Push got a reprieve yesterday.

Currently is at 55 for his career, just starting for 4 seasons fully.

Cam Newton has the most with 75

Josh Allen is at 65 but thats with exactly 2 more seasons worth of games played at 34 more.

Currently 10 Running backs have 100+ rushing touchdowns and every single one other than Shaun Alexander is in the HOF.

High winning %

2 Super Bowls, 1 Win and Couting

1 Super Bowl MVP and counting

After this season he should be close to 70 rushing touchdowns, based off the past 3 seasons with the TP.

Am I crazy?
I’d say he’d be a lock. 🔒

If he wins another ring he might be a lock anyway. He’s a better QB statistically than Plunkett or Eli, both of whom have 2 but aren’t in (I suspect Eli will get in, though) and he’s a more integral part of his offense than many QBs.

If he has 5 more years of high level play and/or another ring, plus the +45 RuTD you’re suggesti ng here, then I just don’t see how you keep him out.
this.

more than 1 superbowl pretty much makes him a lock so long as his career isnt cut short by injury.

I honestly dont think the tush push and its presence (or absence) would affect whether he gets into the HOF. Its not the reason I'd vote for him. a Tush push is more a factor of having a fantastic O line than it is a reflection of his skill. almost anyone who doesnt fumble the ball can lineup take the snap and go forward behind whichever guard gives the best push and then get pushed from behind across the line.

all the tush push does is make him a better fantasy player. and we all know the difference between fantasy football and actual football can be substantial. just ask Tim Teebow.
 
Nobody likes cheaters.
:popcorn: Which team are we talking about?


Oh, I don't know. Maybe the one that is the discussion of this thread?
Then stop with the “cheating” crap.
if the shoe fits...

Man your hate makes you powerful bro

No hate here, "bro". I'm fine. I've got 13 NFL championships to crow about as a fan that we didn't have to cheat to get. :thumbup:
Lol yet all you've done for the 4 months since we knocked you out of the playoffs, is post that the Eagles were cheating by using a play thats legal and allowed 🤣

You can't make this stuff up.

Which is EXACTLY what you're doing. :lol: :doh:

Your revisionist history won't work on me. Maybe try a different strategery? Of course, at any point you can start acting like an adult instead of petulant child. Your call.
Well I did 'get back to the topic' and ask you to back up exactly how you concluded that the Eagles would have won 5 less games last year without the Tush Push, and you (very predictably) didn't respond to that. Care to try again? What 5 games did the Eagles win because of the Tush Push last year, and in each of those games, why do you think Hurts' 90% QB sneak percentage would have dropped to below 10%?

Waiting.
Stop engaging the troll. This is no different from the Cowboys trolls that come into the Eagles thread.

No its worse

You've got more drama than a Mexican Soap Opera. Lighten up. It's OK if someone has a different opinion. Seriously, you'll be all right.
tush push isn't cheating. NFL said so...so you're lying....it's NOT a matter of opinion.
Tush push adds, at MOST 5 or 6% to the conversion rate, so Eagles would NOT have lost 2 more games, let alone the 4 or 5 you project. AGAIN, NOT a matter of opinion, or at the least, your stated "opinion" is easily and conclusively disproven.

What you're doing is not stating opinion, it's trolling. You are entitled to have and state an opinion, but you aren't entitled to your own set of facts.
So the guy telling me I'm making things up is making things up himself. :doh:

5 to 6%? That's something YOU made up and then tried to pass that off as fact with your "is easily and conclusively proven" phrase. It's not and give us all a break. You're predicting, at best, and that prediction is no better than some fortune-teller at a county fair. And I want to note that all of my posts have ALWAYS been my opinion - I was never passing anything off as fact as you claim. That's a strawman you made up to argue against with your above post. YOU'RE the one trying to pass your opinions and claims off as fact, not me.

And it is cheating, IMO. If it isn't, then why not just pick up Hurts and throw him over the goal line? You cannot assist the runner forward. This used to NOT be an issue and was a common understanding in the game. If you want your "tush-push" - and I want to note that the cheating is LITERALLY in the title of the play - then the DEF needs to have the same leeway.

You're right - you're NOT entitled to your own set of facts so you should probably practice what you preach.
No, it isn't!!!! What is the traditional success rate for QB sneaks? What is it for a QB who is good at it? Hint...it's upper 80's. A QB good at it can easily hit 90%+. Success rate for the tush push? Like 92% SO NO I AM NOT MAKING IT UP. IN this case, you are. From a statistical standpoint, giving you 5% is generous, because it assumes that HUrts would not not be good at the traditional QB sneak, he'd be below average. Given his build and ability to run in general, that's pretty poor assumption, but for the sake of argument we'll allow it and give you 5%

Have you actually watched these plays closely? IN the overwhelming majority of cases, Hurts has the conversion before the pushers lay a finger on him. The pushers absolutely help, but you are dramatically over-estimating their impact based on verifiable data
 
it assumes that HUrts would not not be good at the traditional QB sneak, he'd be below average. Given his build and ability to run in general, that's pretty poor assumption,
Given the eagles OL, It’s a completely baseless assumption.
Absolutely, I'm being generous. It's very much akin to when people wanted to take credit for a bowl or two from New England because Brady let a couple pounds of pressure out of a few balls..(which by the way, actually WAS cheating, unlike the tush push). It just isn't sensible or reasonable
 
Too early to say but if he can play 8 more years to 34 like this, he will. Too many TDs and playoff runs to ignore.

Not too early at all for HOF projection.

And if he plays 8 more years like this he will go into the the Hall of GOATs.
8 more years is pushing it for a guy who plays his style.... dude is 26. he is likely done by 30 or 31 unless he transitions his game and becomes primarily a drop back passer. not saying it cant happen. but injuries quickly become a large factor with running QB's like him approach the age of 30.

many are done before the age of 30. ask Cam newton. he did play beyond the age of 30 but he was done like dinner well before that time.

I'd give him 5 years. if he converts more to a drop back passer like Russell Wilson, I could see his career lasting an extra 2 maybe 3 years beyond that point. Hes a big boy, so he could have more durability than most of those before him. but no guarantees there.
 
Too early to say but if he can play 8 more years to 34 like this, he will. Too many TDs and playoff runs to ignore.

Not too early at all for HOF projection.

And if he plays 8 more years like this he will go into the the Hall of GOATs.
8 more years is pushing it for a guy who plays his style.... dude is 26. he is likely done by 30 or 31 unless he transitions his game and becomes primarily a drop back passer. not saying it cant happen. but injuries quickly become a large factor with running QB's like him approach the age of 30.

many are done before the age of 30. ask Cam newton. he did play beyond the age of 30 but he was done like dinner well before that time.

I'd give him 5 years. if he converts more to a drop back passer like Russell Wilson, I could see his career lasting an extra 2 maybe 3 years beyond that point. Hes a big boy, so he could have more durability than most of those before him. but no guarantees there.
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good. When Father Time or NFL Defenses finally catch up to them - and they ALWAYS do - they're then forced to throw and there is no hiding it anymore. Most of them typically cannot transition to pocket passers. They've relied on their legs their entire career to make up for their passing deficiencies that they simply can't do anything else.

That's why running QBs are a short-term solution to a long-term position. You would think NFL Teams would figure this fad out at some point but they continue to waste money on drafting RBs for the QB position.
 
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Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.
 
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That's just disrespectful.
And racist apparently
The notion of "running QB" applied as a stereotype to black QBs absolutely has a history as a racist trope. This isn't something I'm pulling out of my ***. It is disappointing to continue to read this crap in the Shark Pool, a place where I've come to expect better.

Also, I've called BR out previously for being a troll and now this, so I should admit that he might just not know what he's talking about.
I went back to reread your first post about this and can’t find it either I’m blind or it is gone.
Agree to disagree I guess
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.
McNabb is an unusual name to bring up here. Aside from being an Eagles QB, he doesn't seem relevant to whatever point Ray is trying to make.

As a rusher, early career McNabb would fall somewhere between Brock Purdy and Bo Nix. It was a part of his game, but was a complimentary part. Also, he was effective well beyond his age 30 season. He did sustain a few injuries...broke his leg getting sacked in the Cards game (continued to play on it and threw for 4 tds) and tore an ACL rolling out of bounds attempting a pass when he landed awkwardly. Not really the kind of injuries you are referring to.

Newton, meanwhile, was often mentioned as a comp for Hurts early on. I get it, they are both built like tanks, deadly around the goalline, and adept at getting the ball to their skill players. But here is where the comparison fails...Cam couldn't hit 60% completion percentage in his best season. Hurts was nearly 70% last year...with 8.0 YPA. Those are Joe Burrow numbers. This doesn't even begin to dig in to the dramatic improvement Hurts showed last year with taking care of the football.

I get that my previous comment offended because I went there. But I do think you should understand why I did. The "analysis" that keeps popping up in all of these threads over and over and over is so amateur that I can't help but feel it is motivated by something else. Yes, running the ball is a part of Hurts game and part of what makes it so hard to stop him. If he gets to Canton (too early to say) it will be part of his resume. But to suggest he can't throw from the pocket? To suggest he isn't worth every penny to the Eagles? That's just disrespectful.
Great post here especially the bolded. Does every QB improve their completion % every single year for the first 5 years?

The comparisons are just lazy b/c that's just what we have become as fans these days

OH HE RUNS HE'S EXACTLY LIKE THAT OTHER GUY THAT WAS A QB THAT RAN ALL THE TIME!

Its hilarious, bc I just looked it up Cam Newton career comp %: 59.9 Career High/Low: 67.9/52.9. 11 seasons, had 4 total season above 60%.

Had just 2 seasons with a QB rating above 90/NINETY!!

Jalen?

Career comp: 64.4, High/Low: 68.7/52.0 - but every full season as the starter is above 60, 2 OF 4 full seasons above 100 passer rating, coming off a career high.

Cam played in 7 career playoff games with a 3-4 record
Jalen 6-3 in 9 games
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.

Here were the top 4 QBs in rush attempts last season: Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson.

So to recap, last season, Hurts was Super Bowl MVP. Daniels was offensive rookie of the year. Allen was league MVP. Jackson was a 1st team all-pro. 3 of the 4 were the starting QBs in their conference championship games.

"Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.

Here were the top 4 QBs in rush attempts last season: Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson.

So to recap, last season, Hurts was Super Bowl MVP. Daniels was offensive rookie of the year. Allen was league MVP. Jackson was a 1st team all-pro. 3 of the 4 were the starting QBs in their conference championship games.

"Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Then I suggest you remain silent, because your "analysis" here is lazy and doesn't take in the context of a career. You're looking at a ONE YEAR sample and extrapolating that to what myself and @Ray_T were talking about, in general, of most running QBs over a career.

Are there some exceptions to the rule? Sure, but of the guys YOU mentioned, we don't know that yet and, of course, they would be EXCEPTIONS to the rule, not the rule.
 
That's just disrespectful.
And racist apparently
The notion of "running QB" applied as a stereotype to black QBs absolutely has a history as a racist trope. This isn't something I'm pulling out of my ***. It is disappointing to continue to read this crap in the Shark Pool, a place where I've come to expect better.

Also, I've called BR out previously for being a troll and now this, so I should admit that he might just not know what he's talking about.

You're full of it, of course, and your previous comment was deleted because you called me a racist and now you're doing it here again. Josh Allen isn't black, IIRC, and he would be included in those running QBs you think are racist tropes. You're responses are predictable, tiresome and only meant to shut down the conversation instead of discussing it like an adult. If you expect better, try starting with yourself. :thumbup:

@Joe Bryant : Can we get this guy to stop resorting to calling other's racist because they don't fall in line with his talking points?
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.

Here were the top 4 QBs in rush attempts last season: Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson.

So to recap, last season, Hurts was Super Bowl MVP. Daniels was offensive rookie of the year. Allen was league MVP. Jackson was a 1st team all-pro. 3 of the 4 were the starting QBs in their conference championship games.

"Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Then I suggest you remain silent, because your "analysis" here is lazy and doesn't take in the context of a career. You're looking at a ONE YEAR sample and extrapolating that to what myself and @Ray_T were talking about, in general, of most running QBs over a career.

Are there some exceptions to the rule? Sure, but of the guys YOU mentioned, we don't know that yet and, of course, they would be EXCEPTIONS to the rule, not the rule.
McNabb was a case of a running QB who could throw the ball.

but his career was cut short. My belief is that this was due to injuries. he was mostly done by 30. he had one good, healthy year at age 31 (might have been 32)

he only had a fully healthy season once after the year 2005. I should know. he was my keeper QB in my keeper league at the time. he missed a lot of time and there were games where he played, but likely shouldnt have because he just wasnt himself. dont get me wrong. I'm a big fan of his. love him as a player. one of the best fantasy QB of his era due to the rush yards.

he was brought up, not because he couldnt throw the ball. but because he was a running QB who could. and his career was not especially long. Not due to his inability to throw. but his inability to stay healthy. This is (in my opinion) an increased risk with any running QB simply by means of the fact that they take a whole lot more hits than your typical drop back QB.
 
That's just disrespectful.
And racist apparently
The notion of "running QB" applied as a stereotype to black QBs absolutely has a history as a racist trope. This isn't something I'm pulling out of my ***. It is disappointing to continue to read this crap in the Shark Pool, a place where I've come to expect better.

Also, I've called BR out previously for being a troll and now this, so I should admit that he might just not know what he's talking about.

You're full of it, of course, and your previous comment was deleted because you called me a racist and now you're doing it here again. Josh Allen isn't black, IIRC, and he would be included in those running QBs you think are racist tropes. You're responses are predictable, tiresome and only meant to shut down the conversation instead of discussing it like an adult. If you expect better, try starting with yourself. :thumbup:

@Joe Bryant : Can we get this guy to stop resorting to calling other's racist because they don't fall in line with his talking points?
1. I did not call you a racist, but we can’t see that because you reported the post and it was deleted. I stated that classifying Hurts as simply a running QB when his body of work showed he can do much more was disrespectful and could be construed as racist.
2. Josh Allen isn’t a running QB either.
3. The QBs I mentioned aren’t racist tropes (that doesn’t make sense). A racist trope is a phrase that can trigger familiar negative feelings because of how they were used in the past.

There is a gigantic body of literature that explains this. I’d suggest Doug Williams’ book to start off if you want to learn more.

No thanks. I'm talking football, not politics and what some people want others to believe to push a false narrative. The PSF was shutdown for the exact same reason your post was deleted here and then you subsequently doubled-down on. Let's keep it at football and we'll be good.
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.

Here were the top 4 QBs in rush attempts last season: Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson.

So to recap, last season, Hurts was Super Bowl MVP. Daniels was offensive rookie of the year. Allen was league MVP. Jackson was a 1st team all-pro. 3 of the 4 were the starting QBs in their conference championship games.

"Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Then I suggest you remain silent, because your "analysis" here is lazy and doesn't take in the context of a career. You're looking at a ONE YEAR sample and extrapolating that to what myself and @Ray_T were talking about, in general, of most running QBs over a career.

Are there some exceptions to the rule? Sure, but of the guys YOU mentioned, we don't know that yet and, of course, they would be EXCEPTIONS to the rule, not the rule.
McNabb was a case of a running QB who could throw the ball.

but his career was cut short. My belief is that this was due to injuries. he was mostly done by 30. he had one good, healthy year at age 31 (might have been 32)

he only had a fully healthy season once after the year 2005. I should know. he was my keeper QB in my keeper league at the time. he missed a lot of time and there were games where he played, but likely shouldnt have because he just wasnt himself. dont get me wrong. I'm a big fan of his. love him as a player. one of the best fantasy QB of his era due to the rush yards.

he was brought up, not because he couldnt throw the ball. but because he was a running QB who could. and his career was not especially long. Not due to his inability to throw. but his inability to stay healthy. This is (in my opinion) an increased risk with any running QB simply by means of the fact that they take a whole lot more hits than your typical drop back QB.
Again, good post. And certainly part of the problem of being a running QB is the shortened career due to injuries from all that running. This all points to the problem, though, which is long term stability at a position that requires it. Of course, I'm a spoiled Packers fan whose been blessed with only 3 non-running QBs over the span of 33 years and counting. It just seems like a no-brainer to go for stability over short-term gain considering the size of these GUARANTEED contracts.

Just my thoughts.
 
Well, that's the problem with running QBS - they run because they can't pass really good.
That is not always the case. some running QB can also throw. But playing as an actual drop back passer is (stylistically at least) a different skillset. Not everyone can make the transition.

and yes, some runnning QB cannot cut it as a drop back passer because they really are not great at throwing the football. their running opened up the pass game in a way that being a drop back passer does not.

That does not mean that they cannot throw the ball. but the reads are definitely different and the way you play the game is different. new skillsets need to be developed. such as the art of throwing someone open. the art of a timing pattern. these are tools you can get by without because when defenders see you threatening to run with the football, they will sometimes leave the guy they are covering to try to make the tackle on the QB and then the throw comes and the WR is wide open. so the need to rely on these other tools is not there.

Not everyone can make that transition successfully.

the other reason a lot of running QB dont have long careers is because they take a lot more hits than the drop back passer. those extra hits take a large toll on the body. lots of those guys start to get injured a lot in the later years. Donovan McNabb, Cam Newton are two who were successful but whose bodies broke down before they even hit 30. then there are a few who only had a couple years.... RGIII for example. and once you get to a point where you cannot stay healthy, you become a backup QB or just retire.
Very well said, Ray. :thumbup:

Pretty much supplements my feelings on the issue as well. From a pure fantasy perspective, running QBs are fantasy gold but in real life I would think that teams investing so much $$$$ into the QB position would take it seriously and choose long-term position stability instead of the short-term adrenaline shot. The contracts nowadays are huge and I think risking that on a running QB is foolish, but that's just my opinion.

Here were the top 4 QBs in rush attempts last season: Jalen Hurts, Jayden Daniels, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson.

So to recap, last season, Hurts was Super Bowl MVP. Daniels was offensive rookie of the year. Allen was league MVP. Jackson was a 1st team all-pro. 3 of the 4 were the starting QBs in their conference championship games.

"Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Then I suggest you remain silent, because your "analysis" here is lazy and doesn't take in the context of a career. You're looking at a ONE YEAR sample and extrapolating that to what myself and @Ray_T were talking about, in general, of most running QBs over a career.

Are there some exceptions to the rule? Sure, but of the guys YOU mentioned, we don't know that yet and, of course, they would be EXCEPTIONS to the rule, not the rule.

How many full running QB careers have been complete, in your opinion? I'd like to get the names so we can then statistically analyze. Its tough when "most running QB's" when its more of a new movement/skillset within the position over the past 15 years than at any time in NFL history. So your own analysis may be a bit flawed, lets try to clean that up.

They are so rare that you can literally pick them by decades up until the 2000s

70s -Tarkenton? Was he a scrambler or actually a running QB though? 4 SB losses. Would have been roasted on Social Media
80s - Randall Cunningham - never won a playoff game, but you won't believe this, developed as a pocket passer late into his career
90s - Steve Young - I'd say he was a pretty good running QB, I think he's in the Hall of Fame right?
2000-2010 Mike Vick revolutionized the game - he was the first guy that looked like the NEW prototype, just never developed enough as a passer

I'll pass the torch to you
 
Just something I have been thinking about since the Tush Push got a reprieve yesterday.

Currently is at 55 for his career, just starting for 4 seasons fully.

Cam Newton has the most with 75

Josh Allen is at 65 but thats with exactly 2 more seasons worth of games played at 34 more.

Currently 10 Running backs have 100+ rushing touchdowns and every single one other than Shaun Alexander is in the HOF.

High winning %

2 Super Bowls, 1 Win and Couting

1 Super Bowl MVP and counting

After this season he should be close to 70 rushing touchdowns, based off the past 3 seasons with the TP.

Am I crazy?
I’d say he’d be a lock. 🔒

If he wins another ring he might be a lock anyway. He’s a better QB statistically than Plunkett or Eli, both of whom have 2 but aren’t in (I suspect Eli will get in, though) and he’s a more integral part of his offense than many QBs.

If he has 5 more years of high level play and/or another ring, plus the +45 RuTD you’re suggesti ng here, then I just don’t see how you keep him out.
this.

more than 1 superbowl pretty much makes him a lock so long as his career isnt cut short by injury.

I honestly dont think the tush push and its presence (or absence) would affect whether he gets into the HOF. Its not the reason I'd vote for him. a Tush push is more a factor of having a fantastic O line than it is a reflection of his skill. almost anyone who doesnt fumble the ball can lineup take the snap and go forward behind whichever guard gives the best push and then get pushed from behind across the line.

all the tush push does is make him a better fantasy player. and we all know the difference between fantasy football and actual football can be substantial. just ask Tim Teebow.
So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.
 
So you are telling me if Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hosteler etc win 2 SB they would have been HOF’s?

Come on man.
I was actually very specific in the post you quoted saying 2 rings PLUS being “an integral part of their offense” - e.g. Not just a Dilfer playing well enough not lose while the team carried him.

And adding 45 Rushing TD to his resume, while continuing to play at a high level.

Context is a thing that exists. @Ray_T was responding to the context of my post in this case, so I actually don’t think he was saying that, no.
 

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