If New England had won last year (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

It always amazes me in football how sometimes one play, little noticed at the time, can make such a difference in the outcome of a game, and in this case, in the fortune of two or more franchises. Last night, I watched a reply of last years AFC Championship game on the NFL network, and I noticed such a play: Late in the 2nd quarter, already up 21-3 and driving the ball, Tom Brady connects on a 3rd and long pass for a 1st down on the Colts 20 yard line. However, the play was called back due to a Troy Brown offensive interference penalty, well away from the action. The next play,Brady gets sacked, and the Patriots, backed up, are forced to punt. Then the Colts drive for a FG, and the score at half is 21-6.

Now, Pats and Colts homers probably remember the Troy Brown penalty very well, but as a neutral spectator, I had forgotten about it. But if that play is not called back, the Patriots very well should have scored a TD in that situation, which would make the overall score 28-3. And I think if that had happened, Indy doesn't come back. The Pats go on to win the game, and the SB as well.

Which leads me to my question: If New England had won, (and there were many other instances in that game that could have won it for them; I only named one), how would things be different? Would they have gone after Wes Welker? Adalius Thomas? I'm guessing Randy Moss would not be a Patriot right now; would he be a Packer, and if so, how would that improve Green Bay, which is already having a great season so far? And would New England, with 4 SB rings, be on such a roll right now, and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?

And what about Indy, if they had sustained yet another crushing loss in the playoffs? How different would their demeanor be? Would Peyton be derided as a choker could never win the big game? Would they be undefeated at this point, or struggling from a lack of confidence?

This has been going around in my head since last night, and I thought it would make an interesting topic leading into this weekend.

 

[urbanhack]

 

[Ghost Rider]

There is no guarantee that the Patriots would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, especially since they barely squeaked by them at home.

Besides, there were a lot of goofy things in that game that could have altered the outcome either way. Both teams recovered fumbles near the goal line for TDs, for example. Too many "what ifs."

 

[porkins]

Boy, you sure start a lot of Pats threads.

 

[timschochet]

There is no guarantee that the Patriots would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, especially since they barely squeaked by them at home. Besides, there were a lot of goofy things in that game that could have altered the outcome either way. Both teams recovered fumbles near the goal line for TDs, for example. Too many "what ifs."

You're right about the second part; lots of goofy things DID happen. But the reason I singled out the Troy Brown penalty was that if Indy is down by four scores, I think they're beaten at that point.As far as the Bears go, I don't see them beating New England last year; but that's just my opinion. The point of my thread, though, was how things would be different THIS YEAR if NE had won. Sure, its pointless speculation, but I think interesting...

 

[timschochet]

Boy, you sure start a lot of Pats threads.

Much less than I used to. Outside of this one and "talking strategy", none of the current others were started by me. But they are the most fascinating topic in football, aren't they?

 

[TxBuckeye]

Which leads me to my question: If New England had won, (and there were many other instances in that game that could have won it for them; I only named one), how would things be different?

There would have been 57 less Pats threads this week.

 

[Tommy Collins]

Boy, you sure start a lot of Pats threads.

Much less than I used to. Outside of this one and "talking strategy", none of the current others were started by me. But they are the most fascinating topic in football, aren't they?

Most annoying topic.

 

[Ghost Rider]

There is no guarantee that the Patriots would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, especially since they barely squeaked by them at home. Besides, there were a lot of goofy things in that game that could have altered the outcome either way. Both teams recovered fumbles near the goal line for TDs, for example. Too many "what ifs."

You're right about the second part; lots of goofy things DID happen. But the reason I singled out the Troy Brown penalty was that if Indy is down by four scores, I think they're beaten at that point.

Okay, but there is no guarantee that the Patriots would have scored a TD on that drive. What if they had only gotten a FG? Indy might have then gone for a TD instead of kicking the FG at the end of the first half. Too many things would have changed to definitively say that the Patriots would have won had Brown not committed that penalty.

 

[timschochet]

There is no guarantee that the Patriots would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, especially since they barely squeaked by them at home. Besides, there were a lot of goofy things in that game that could have altered the outcome either way. Both teams recovered fumbles near the goal line for TDs, for example. Too many "what ifs."

You're right about the second part; lots of goofy things DID happen. But the reason I singled out the Troy Brown penalty was that if Indy is down by four scores, I think they're beaten at that point.

Okay, but there is no guarantee that the Patriots would have scored a TD on that drive. What if they had only gotten a FG? Indy might have then gone for a TD instead of kicking the FG at the end of the first half. Too many things would have changed to definitively say that the Patriots would have won had Brown not committed that penalty.

Of course you're right. No guarantees at all. Let me clarify that if Brown had not commited the penalty I mentioned, I BELIEVE the Pats would have score a TD, I BELIEVE they would have won the game, I BELIEVE they would have won the SB, and I BELIEVE things would be vastly different for both teams and the NFL this year. How's that?

 

[MDSkinner]

I BELIEVE that penalty saved the Pats for this year and beyond.

My crystal ball says that if Brown had not gotten that penalty then the Pats offensive line would have gotten lax in the second half while BB was trying to run up the score and Freeny would have drilled Brady giving him a career ending injury and the Pats would have been starting Matt Schaub this year instead of Tom Brady at QB on their way to winning the division (10-6) and losing to the Anderson lead Cleveland Browns in the first round of the playoffs this year. They would have gotten Wes Welker, but Randy Moss would have gone to the Packers instead of the Pats, since Brady would no longer be playing and Moss would rather have taken his chances with an aging Favre than with Matt Schaub the new starter of the Pats.

This game is fun.

ETA: Oh...and the Bears would be undefeated and people would be talking about how they are one of the greatest teams ever assembled and how Cedric Benson is looking like a young Walter Payton. Amazing how much of a difference one play can make, huh?

 

[AnonymousBob]

We wouldn't have as many threads by timschochet.

 

[timschochet]

We wouldn't have as many threads by timschochet.

All right, I get the point. Thought it was an interesting topic, but... no more threads from me for a while, OK?

 

[AnonymousBob]

We wouldn't have as many threads by timschochet.

All right, I get the point. Thought it was an interesting topic, but... no more threads from me for a while, OK?

Start as many threads as you want. I didn't think you were that bad of a poster until you started making 30 Patriot threads every hour. You're inching closer to my ignore list with each and every thread about New England football.

 

[Ghost Rider]

There is no guarantee that the Patriots would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, especially since they barely squeaked by them at home. Besides, there were a lot of goofy things in that game that could have altered the outcome either way. Both teams recovered fumbles near the goal line for TDs, for example. Too many "what ifs."

You're right about the second part; lots of goofy things DID happen. But the reason I singled out the Troy Brown penalty was that if Indy is down by four scores, I think they're beaten at that point.

Okay, but there is no guarantee that the Patriots would have scored a TD on that drive. What if they had only gotten a FG? Indy might have then gone for a TD instead of kicking the FG at the end of the first half. Too many things would have changed to definitively say that the Patriots would have won had Brown not committed that penalty.

Of course you're right. No guarantees at all. Let me clarify that if Brown had not commited the penalty I mentioned, I BELIEVE the Pats would have score a TD, I BELIEVE they would have won the game, I BELIEVE they would have won the SB, and I BELIEVE things would be vastly different for both teams and the NFL this year. How's that?

I get what you are saying. I really do. But in any close game, there are always going to be a ton of plays that could have changed the outcome of the game, had they gone differently. That is all I am saying.

 

[PMENFAN]

It always amazes me in football how sometimes one play, little noticed at the time, can make such a difference in the outcome of a game, and in this case, in the fortune of two or more franchises. Last night, I watched a reply of last years AFC Championship game on the NFL network, and I noticed such a play: Late in the 2nd quarter, already up 21-3 and driving the ball, Tom Brady connects on a 3rd and long pass for a 1st down on the Colts 20 yard line. However, the play was called back due to a Troy Brown offensive interference penalty, well away from the action. The next play,Brady gets sacked, and the Patriots, backed up, are forced to punt. Then the Colts drive for a FG, and the score at half is 21-6.Now, Pats and Colts homers probably remember the Troy Brown penalty very well, but as a neutral spectator, I had forgotten about it. But if that play is not called back, the Patriots very well should have scored a TD in that situation, which would make the overall score 28-3. And I think if that had happened, Indy doesn't come back. The Pats go on to win the game, and the SB as well.Which leads me to my question: If New England had won, (and there were many other instances in that game that could have won it for them; I only named one), how would things be different? Would they have gone after Wes Welker? Adalius Thomas? I'm guessing Randy Moss would not be a Patriot right now; would he be a Packer, and if so, how would that improve Green Bay, which is already having a great season so far? And would New England, with 4 SB rings, be on such a roll right now, and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?And what about Indy, if they had sustained yet another crushing loss in the playoffs? How different would their demeanor be? Would Peyton be derided as a choker could never win the big game? Would they be undefeated at this point, or struggling from a lack of confidence?This has been going around in my head since last night, and I thought it would make an interesting topic leading into this weekend.

That game was so well played by Manning in the second half. Lots of it him, lots of it the Pats secondary and linebacking injuries. Too many guys that were inexperienced, trying to stop the second best QB of his generation, with all his weapons intact. It was a collossal mismatch. I thin down 28-3, they still get it done. That said, it would have been too close,even if the Pats won, and the off season would have went as it did. If the Packers couldn't make a better offer for Moss than a 4th rounder, they didn't deserve him. Welker was a steal. One of the most underrated guys in the league at Miami. He returns kicks, is a better than average downfield blocker, has great hands, and is excellent after the catch, especially in the open field. Thomas is like something BB drew up in a lab. He wanted to play at NE> Stallworth and Washington were signings of opportunity. I don't think the W/L would have altered history. Ne had a chance to get a great player in Thomas and did. The WR corps addressed a glaring need on the team for a couple of years. It's only through the greatness of Tom Brady that they got by for so long without better WR's. I'll say, I think they have the best WR corps, top to bottom, and measured at the APEX, in the league this year.

 

[twitch]

Who knows. Maybe Grossman gets a ring, signs a new contract and still has a job QBing a team instead of being the butt of everyone's jokes. There are no certainties in life. Only that New England is about to beat Indy by 17.

 

[MarshallRob]

If New England had won (and gone on to win the Super Bowl), Brady almost unanimously would be considered a better QB right now than Manning.

 

[Cunk]

It always amazes me in football how sometimes one play, little noticed at the time, can make such a difference in the outcome of a game, and in this case, in the fortune of two or more franchises. Last night, I watched a reply of last years AFC Championship game on the NFL network, and I noticed such a play: Late in the 2nd quarter, already up 21-3 and driving the ball, Tom Brady connects on a 3rd and long pass for a 1st down on the Colts 20 yard line. However, the play was called back due to a Troy Brown offensive interference penalty, well away from the action. The next play,Brady gets sacked, and the Patriots, backed up, are forced to punt. Then the Colts drive for a FG, and the score at half is 21-6.Now, Pats and Colts homers probably remember the Troy Brown penalty very well, but as a neutral spectator, I had forgotten about it. But if that play is not called back, the Patriots very well should have scored a TD in that situation, which would make the overall score 28-3. And I think if that had happened, Indy doesn't come back. The Pats go on to win the game, and the SB as well.Which leads me to my question: If New England had won, (and there were many other instances in that game that could have won it for them; I only named one), how would things be different? Would they have gone after Wes Welker? Adalius Thomas? I'm guessing Randy Moss would not be a Patriot right now; would he be a Packer, and if so, how would that improve Green Bay, which is already having a great season so far? And would New England, with 4 SB rings, be on such a roll right now, and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?And what about Indy, if they had sustained yet another crushing loss in the playoffs? How different would their demeanor be? Would Peyton be derided as a choker could never win the big game? Would they be undefeated at this point, or struggling from a lack of confidence?This has been going around in my head since last night, and I thought it would make an interesting topic leading into this weekend.

This is a very good question. The Pats not winning it all last year may very well have given the Patriot's management motivation to get the wide receivers they did and, perhaps, extend their success for more years then they otherwise would have.

 

[PMENFAN]

If New England had won (and gone on to win the Super Bowl), Brady almost unanimously would be considered a better QB right now than Manning.

I refuse to acknowledge the nonbelievers. Brady is number one.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

I think had they won they still would have signed Adalius Thomas and Wes Welker since they would help clear weaknesses. I don't know if they would have rented Stallworth and Moss for a year though. I guess you should thank the 2006 Indianapolis Colts for unleashing the beast that is the 2007 New England Patriots.

 

[pats3in4]

Even if the Pats beat Indy and won their 4th Super Bowl, there still was a very likely chance they would have still gone out and got most of these players anyway: They weren't reloading to beat Indy, but rather San Diego. The Pats stole a win in San Diego and BB knew that 2006 team wasn't constituted to make a habit of that.

 

[Clifton]

They'd have 4 rings now and Peyton would be playing arena football after a mental collapse.

 

[NYCGangGreen]

It always amazes me in football how sometimes one play, little noticed at the time, can make such a difference in the outcome of a game, and in this case, in the fortune of two or more franchises. Last night, I watched a reply of last years AFC Championship game on the NFL network, and I noticed such a play: Late in the 2nd quarter, already up 21-3 and driving the ball, Tom Brady connects on a 3rd and long pass for a 1st down on the Colts 20 yard line. However, the play was called back due to a Troy Brown offensive interference penalty, well away from the action. The next play,Brady gets sacked, and the Patriots, backed up, are forced to punt. Then the Colts drive for a FG, and the score at half is 21-6.

Now, Pats and Colts homers probably remember the Troy Brown penalty very well, but as a neutral spectator, I had forgotten about it. But if that play is not called back, the Patriots very well should have scored a TD in that situation, which would make the overall score 28-3. And I think if that had happened, Indy doesn't come back. The Pats go on to win the game, and the SB as well.

Which leads me to my question: If New England had won, (and there were many other instances in that game that could have won it for them; I only named one), how would things be different? Would they have gone after Wes Welker? Adalius Thomas? I'm guessing Randy Moss would not be a Patriot right now; would he be a Packer, and if so, how would that improve Green Bay, which is already having a great season so far? And would New England, with 4 SB rings, be on such a roll right now, and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?

And what about Indy, if they had sustained yet another crushing loss in the playoffs? How different would their demeanor be? Would Peyton be derided as a choker could never win the big game? Would they be undefeated at this point, or struggling from a lack of confidence?

This has been going around in my head since last night, and I thought it would make an interesting topic leading into this weekend.

If nuetral = Pat lover, then you nailed it!

 

[kilrb]

Shoulda woulda coulda. Come on, stop pissin in da pool.

 

[yetiknight]

IF the Patriots had won that game, I can guarantee one thing. The play where Tom Brady juked Urlacher out of his socks would have been replayed at least 3 million times. And I would have laughed every single time I watched it.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

It always amazes me in football how sometimes one play, little noticed at the time, can make such a difference in the outcome of a game, and in this case, in the fortune of two or more franchises. Last night, I watched a reply of last years AFC Championship game on the NFL network, and I noticed such a play: Late in the 2nd quarter, already up 21-3 and driving the ball, Tom Brady connects on a 3rd and long pass for a 1st down on the Colts 20 yard line. However, the play was called back due to a Troy Brown offensive interference penalty, well away from the action. The next play,Brady gets sacked, and the Patriots, backed up, are forced to punt. Then the Colts drive for a FG, and the score at half is 21-6.

Now, Pats and Colts homers probably remember the Troy Brown penalty very well, but as a neutral spectator, I had forgotten about it. But if that play is not called back, the Patriots very well should have scored a TD in that situation, which would make the overall score 28-3. And I think if that had happened, Indy doesn't come back. The Pats go on to win the game, and the SB as well.

Which leads me to my question: If New England had won, (and there were many other instances in that game that could have won it for them; I only named one), how would things be different? Would they have gone after Wes Welker? Adalius Thomas? I'm guessing Randy Moss would not be a Patriot right now; would he be a Packer, and if so, how would that improve Green Bay, which is already having a great season so far? And would New England, with 4 SB rings, be on such a roll right now, and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?

And what about Indy, if they had sustained yet another crushing loss in the playoffs? How different would their demeanor be? Would Peyton be derided as a choker could never win the big game? Would they be undefeated at this point, or struggling from a lack of confidence?

This has been going around in my head since last night, and I thought it would make an interesting topic leading into this weekend.

If nuetral = Pat lover, then you nailed it!

timschochet is a Steelers fan who ripped the Pats mercilessly a few weeks back. Try to keep up.

 

[MDSkinner]

They'd have 4 rings now and Peyton would be playing arena football after a mental collapse.

That's what I am talking about. If we are going to speculate, let's speculate.

 

[eom]

and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?

where do you get this idea from?if not for the penalty, pats win, fan celebrates that night by gettin' it on w/his wife, wife gets pregnant, kid grows up to be the next hitler, world plunged into nuclear winter, grossman still out of a job.

 

[timschochet]

and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?

where do you get this idea from?if not for the penalty, pats win, fan celebrates that night by gettin' it on w/his wife, wife gets pregnant, kid grows up to be the next hitler, world plunged into nuclear winter, grossman still out of a job.

Gee, eom, that's not exactly the alternative I was looking for...

 

[MDSkinner]

and playing with as much of a chip on their shoulder?

where do you get this idea from?if not for the penalty, pats win, fan celebrates that night by gettin' it on w/his wife, wife gets pregnant, kid grows up to be the next hitler, world plunged into nuclear winter, grossman still out of a job.

Gee, eom, that's not exactly the alternative I was looking for...

Perhaps not what you were looking for....but solid speculation nonetheless.

 

[thayman]

There is no guarantee that the Patriots would have beaten the Bears in the Super Bowl, especially since they barely squeaked by them at home. Besides, there were a lot of goofy things in that game that could have altered the outcome either way. Both teams recovered fumbles near the goal line for TDs, for example. Too many "what ifs."

You're right about the second part; lots of goofy things DID happen. But the reason I singled out the Troy Brown penalty was that if Indy is down by four scores, I think they're beaten at that point.

Okay, but there is no guarantee that the Patriots would have scored a TD on that drive. What if they had only gotten a FG? Indy might have then gone for a TD instead of kicking the FG at the end of the first half. Too many things would have changed to definitively say that the Patriots would have won had Brown not committed that penalty.

Of course you're right. No guarantees at all. Let me clarify that if Brown had not commited the penalty I mentioned, I BELIEVE the Pats would have score a TD, I BELIEVE they would have won the game, I BELIEVE they would have won the SB, and I BELIEVE things would be vastly different for both teams and the NFL this year. How's that?

I believe Brady would have thrown a INT that would have gone the other way for a TD. Making the score 21-10 going into halftime.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

What happens if 2 years ago when Bettis fumbled at the goaline Indy would have taken that fumble all the way back and won that super bowl as well over Seattle.

What if the Cowboys wouldn't have fallen behind 21-0 in the NFC Championship when Dallas was going for their 3rd Super Bowl in a row and just missed coming back at the end of the game on a questionable non pass interference call on Deion Sanders covering Irvin?

What if, what if, what if?

What if the Earth was flat and Columbus would have sailed over the edge?

Things happen for a reason, it is what it is.