If the Patriots Defense is improved. (1 Viewer)

[Eminence]

I'm sitting here spitballing ideas and an interesting concept popped into my head:

The New England Patriots drastically improved their defense in this past draft. They were ranked 31st Overall last year. If this defense improved, (got more stops, turnovers, etc.) would we see an INCREASE in their Offensive production? The idea being:

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

2.) In 2008 (Brady's dream run), New England continued to score and rack up points even with the lead.

3.) The Patriots use short passes as a substitute for the run-game.

4.) There is no real 'bell cow' back in New England but rather specialist who fit their Offensive Scheme.

If the Patriots defense took a leap FORWARD this year, would it be possible to see an uptick in their already impressive Offensive Production?

 

[Run It Up]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Probably.

 

[FF Ninja]

That is not usually the way it works in reality, but we're on a fantasy football forum which is more like the twilight zone. A WR1's stock will go up when his solid WR2 leaves because he'll get more targets. The WR1 on the team where the WR2 left to go to also sees an increase in stock because he'll be open more often. Just like when a team has a bad defense they have to score more points, but when their defense gets better they'll suddenly have more opportunities to score...

So that was a long way of saying "no" but that I'm sure Brady's dynasty owners will say "yes".

 

[Shutout]

I think the answer is yes just because Brady has really only been an elite FF QB since the time the Patriots have fallen from being uber-elite (winning the SB on a regular basis). Although the Patriots are thought of as one of the best NFL teams (and they are..they are always a legit threat to make a run), they are not the dominant team they once were. So, I think the team will remain good and, heck, they may even improve, but I think the FF production remains.

The Patriots only beat 1 (one) team last year with a winning record. You would think that would mean this was a team that played with leads, dictated the games, etc, and really didn't have to try to go all out on offense. Yet, they did. I don't think an infusion of a handful of jack-of-all-trades rookies translates into big changes in 2012.

 

[Gandalf]

I am a huge Pats fan and while I would love to believe this would be true I am skeptical. If the defense improves then I think more likely the team will not have to push the offense full throttle for 60 minutes. I think BB and all of patriot nation regret not having better play makers on defense. Because we could not stop anyone, the team HAD to use its offense to control games. This will change if they can start stopping people on defense. Brady is still Brady and they added Lloyd so anything is possible, just don't think improving the defense will help Brady as much as the risk of it hurting his stats.

 

[Anarchy99]

The Patriots only beat 1 (one) team last year with a winning record.

This really doesn't mean much of anything. The year before, IIRC they beat 7 teams with winning records. Yet their offense was potent each year.I happen to think that it will take a while for the defense to improve . . . and when it does it probably won't impact the offense all that much, unless the Pats get the ball in uber good scoring position.

 

[PatsFanCT]

The Patriots only beat 1 (one) team last year with a winning record.

This really doesn't mean much of anything. The year before, IIRC they beat 7 teams with winning records. Yet their offense was potent each year.I happen to think that it will take a while for the defense to improve . . . and when it does it probably won't impact the offense all that much, unless the Pats get the ball in uber good scoring position.

It means less than anything really. I don't know why so many parrots mimic that statement. They could only play the tams on their schedule, and just because they only beat one team with a winning record doesn't mean they couldn't have beaten plenty of others.

 

[BaBastage]

If the defense improves then I think more likely the team will not have to push the offense full throttle for 60 minutes.

This is the conventional logic, which I would normally agree with.Anything is possible, but Belicheck isn't exactly known for sitting on leads, so what do I know?

 

[CalBear]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

 

[Eminence]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

 

[Casting Couch]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

 

[Run It Up]

To reiterate, probably.

There is nothing to suggest the current pats system will slow down for anything, keeping the other team off the field is simply a boon for their system.

 

[Gandalf]

To reiterate, probably.There is nothing to suggest the current pats system will slow down for anything, keeping the other team off the field is simply a boon for their system.

I am not sold about that. The pats had to keep scoring last year because they had no defense. If they could stop a team it might change their strategy to burn more of the clock than they did last year. I mean who the heck knows but it seems like if the d improved they would not feel like they had to score 40 points every game.

 

[Gandalf]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

Not yardage but what about points against? I think that is a more meaningful figure for putting pressure on the offense.

 

[CalBear]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays

2009: #11, 1076 plays

2008: #10, 1095 plays

2007: #4, 1058 plays

I don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense.

The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

Not yardage but what about points against? I think that is a more meaningful figure for putting pressure on the offense.

I'll start with the bottom line: Do not project the Pats to have more than 612 passing attempts in 2012.If you really want to look at points against vs. number of plays, it's:

2011: #15, 1082 plays

2010: #8, 986 plays

2009: #5, 1076 plays

2008: #8, 1095 plays

2007: #4, 1058 plays

Again, doesn't look like there's anything there.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

But a better defense will lead to better field position=more TDs

 

[CalBear]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

But a better defense will lead to better field position=more TDs

The Pats had 39 passing TDs in 2011 (#4 in the league). Are you seriously going to project them for more than that?

 

[Gandalf]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

But a better defense will lead to better field position=more TDs

The Pats had 39 passing TDs in 2011 (#4 in the league). Are you seriously going to project them for more than that?

I'm not.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.

The Patriots ran 1082 offensive plays in 2011 with the #31 ranked defense. That compares to:2010: #25, 986 plays2009: #11, 1076 plays2008: #10, 1095 plays2007: #4, 1058 playsI don't think the number of plays the offense will run is tied in any meaningful way to the yardage performance of the defense. The Patriots were #3 in the league in passing attempts in 2011 (with 612), which is the most they've had since 1996 with Drew Bledsoe. I think the only reasonable assumption is that they will have fewer in 2012.

But a better defense will lead to better field position=more TDs

The Pats had 39 passing TDs in 2011 (#4 in the league). Are you seriously going to project them for more than that?

Just talking in theory here.

 

[Run It Up]

To reiterate, probably.There is nothing to suggest the current pats system will slow down for anything, keeping the other team off the field is simply a boon for their system.

I am not sold about that. The pats had to keep scoring last year because they had no defense. If they could stop a team it might change their strategy to burn more of the clock than they did last year. I mean who the heck knows but it seems like if the d improved they would not feel like they had to score 40 points every game.

I dont think 4 draft picks is enough to convince me otherwise about the previous 5 years in NE.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

To reiterate, probably.There is nothing to suggest the current pats system will slow down for anything, keeping the other team off the field is simply a boon for their system.

I am not sold about that. The pats had to keep scoring last year because they had no defense. If they could stop a team it might change their strategy to burn more of the clock than they did last year. I mean who the heck knows but it seems like if the d improved they would not feel like they had to score 40 points every game.

I dont think 4 draft picks is enough to convince me otherwise about the previous 5 years in NE.

I agree that the 4 draft picks isn't enough, but when you combine that with all of the young high draft picks on NE's D already...it is.2012 draft:1st round(21st overall) Chandler Jones DE/OLB1st round(25th overall) Donta Hightower LB2nd round(48th overall) Tavon Wilson S3rd round(90th overall) Jake Bequette DE2011 draft:2nd round(33 overall) Ras-I Dowling CB2010 draft:1st round(27th overall) Devin McCourty CB2nd round(53rd overall) Jermaine Cunningham OLB2nd round(62nd overall) Brandon Spikes ILB2009 draft:2nd round(34th overall) Patrick Chung S2nd round(40th overall) Ron Brace DEThat's a lot of high draft picks spent on defense, one would think they're still developing and will improve.

 

[GroveDiesel]

To reiterate, probably.There is nothing to suggest the current pats system will slow down for anything, keeping the other team off the field is simply a boon for their system.

I am not sold about that. The pats had to keep scoring last year because they had no defense. If they could stop a team it might change their strategy to burn more of the clock than they did last year. I mean who the heck knows but it seems like if the d improved they would not feel like they had to score 40 points every game.

I dont think 4 draft picks is enough to convince me otherwise about the previous 5 years in NE.

I agree that the 4 draft picks isn't enough, but when you combine that with all of the young high draft picks on NE's D already...it is.2012 draft:1st round(21st overall) Chandler Jones DE/OLB1st round(25th overall) Donta Hightower LB2nd round(48th overall) Tavon Wilson S3rd round(90th overall) Jake Bequette DE2011 draft:2nd round(33 overall) Ras-I Dowling CB2010 draft:1st round(27th overall) Devin McCourty CB2nd round(53rd overall) Jermaine Cunningham OLB2nd round(62nd overall) Brandon Spikes ILB2009 draft:2nd round(34th overall) Patrick Chung S2nd round(40th overall) Ron Brace DEThat's a lot of high draft picks spent on defense, one would think they're still developing and will improve.

I tend to think of the Patriots at being much better at developing offensive talent than I do defensive talent. I think they do a decent job of putting their guys in schemes to disguise weaknesses and maximize strengths as much as possible, but I don't tend to see a ton of actual development.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

To reiterate, probably.There is nothing to suggest the current pats system will slow down for anything, keeping the other team off the field is simply a boon for their system.

I am not sold about that. The pats had to keep scoring last year because they had no defense. If they could stop a team it might change their strategy to burn more of the clock than they did last year. I mean who the heck knows but it seems like if the d improved they would not feel like they had to score 40 points every game.

I dont think 4 draft picks is enough to convince me otherwise about the previous 5 years in NE.

I agree that the 4 draft picks isn't enough, but when you combine that with all of the young high draft picks on NE's D already...it is.2012 draft:1st round(21st overall) Chandler Jones DE/OLB1st round(25th overall) Donta Hightower LB2nd round(48th overall) Tavon Wilson S3rd round(90th overall) Jake Bequette DE2011 draft:2nd round(33 overall) Ras-I Dowling CB2010 draft:1st round(27th overall) Devin McCourty CB2nd round(53rd overall) Jermaine Cunningham OLB2nd round(62nd overall) Brandon Spikes ILB2009 draft:2nd round(34th overall) Patrick Chung S2nd round(40th overall) Ron Brace DEThat's a lot of high draft picks spent on defense, one would think they're still developing and will improve.

I tend to think of the Patriots at being much better at developing offensive talent than I do defensive talent. I think they do a decent job of putting their guys in schemes to disguise weaknesses and maximize strengths as much as possible, but I don't tend to see a ton of actual development.

That may be an issue and a good point to bring up. Both Terrance Wheatley(2nd round) and Darius Butler(2nd round) flopped/were released in the last 4 years as CB's.

 

[Dismattle]

I'm sitting here spitballing ideas and an interesting concept popped into my head:The New England Patriots drastically improved their defense in this past draft. They were ranked 31st Overall last year. If this defense improved, (got more stops, turnovers, etc.) would we see an INCREASE in their Offensive production? The idea being:1.) If the opposing Offense is on the field sustaining drives; running the clock, the Patriots Offensive players are on the bench NOT creating yards, points, etc. You are getting more opportunities to score.2.) In 2008 (Brady's dream run), New England continued to score and rack up points even with the lead.3.) The Patriots use short passes as a substitute for the run-game.4.) There is no real 'bell cow' back in New England but rather specialist who fit their Offensive Scheme.If the Patriots defense took a leap FORWARD this year, would it be possible to see an uptick in their already impressive Offensive Production?

Theres a ton of variables ie. It may take half the Season to know just how good the D can play. Once Coach B knows, maybe he doesnt view 3rd down so much as do or die (notice I typed 3rd not 4th) Coach may call plays that really need the player to make the miss/avoid the tackle (more routine/safer play) The thing about being ranked last in D means the potential for even less time on the Field, for the Offense, when it does improve (takes the opponent a longer time to get within the 20/they may treat 3rd as do or die too) Whats worse is that opposing teams may consider going for 4th downs more (defenses can wear down during game/Season too)On a positive note, theres a few teams who will continue to play/score, and NE is one of those teams! Im still confused how NE got Hightower (love to know what was offered in trade for the pick too)

 

[SWC]

i would personally like to see tom brady play defesive back catch an interception and throw it to a streaking defensive lineman for the first ever d touchdown pass to a streaknig defense lineman but i know it wont happen because frankly nothing i ever want to come true does life stinks but it is fun to dream about gaget plays anyhow but on your topic yep i think if the d gets good it is going to be just like 08 when they set the record book on fire like it was made out of gasoline and they were the blowtorch from wwii take that to the bank brohan and join me in wishnig for a brady db touchdown pass for about 98 yards

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

i would personally like to see tom brady play defesive back catch an interception and throw it to a streaking defensive lineman for the first ever d touchdown pass to a streaknig defense lineman but i know it wont happen because frankly nothing i ever want to come true does life stinks but it is fun to dream about gaget plays anyhow but on your topic yep i think if the d gets good it is going to be just like 08 when they set the record book on fire like it was made out of gasoline and they were the blowtorch from wwii take that to the bank brohan and join me in wishnig for a brady db touchdown pass for about 98 yards

It only took your last two posts to put you on ignore. Enjoy your

 

[CalBear]

i would personally like to see tom brady play defesive back catch an interception and throw it to a streaking defensive lineman for the first ever d touchdown pass to a streaknig defense lineman but i know it wont happen because frankly nothing i ever want to come true does life stinks but it is fun to dream about gaget plays anyhow but on your topic yep i think if the d gets good it is going to be just like 08 when they set the record book on fire like it was made out of gasoline and they were the blowtorch from wwii take that to the bank brohan and join me in wishnig for a brady db touchdown pass for about 98 yards

It only took your last two posts to put you on ignore. Enjoy your

SWC clearly isn't fishing; he doesn't invite responses and usually doesn't participate in conversations on an ongoing basis.Is he the love child of Vince Lombardi and Jack Kerouac, or is it brilliant shtick? That's not entirely clear.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

the biggest downfall of the pats last few years is not being able to 'ground and grind' games out with D and running the ball in the 4th. drafted 2RB they liked last year and have 3 fullbacks they plan on keeping on roster now. pats don't waste roster spots........the 2012 pats will run the ball more. offense will be better(balanced) but not statistically, that coupled with better D equal shorter fields but better time of possession and likely somewhat fewer TD for Brady. he'll likely still hit 30 tho

 

[FF Ninja]

i would personally like to see tom brady play defesive back catch an interception and throw it to a streaking defensive lineman for the first ever d touchdown pass to a streaknig defense lineman but i know it wont happen because frankly nothing i ever want to come true does life stinks but it is fun to dream about gaget plays anyhow but on your topic yep i think if the d gets good it is going to be just like 08 when they set the record book on fire like it was made out of gasoline and they were the blowtorch from wwii take that to the bank brohan and join me in wishnig for a brady db touchdown pass for about 98 yards

It only took your last two posts to put you on ignore. Enjoy your

SWC clearly isn't fishing; he doesn't invite responses and usually doesn't participate in conversations on an ongoing basis.Is he the love child of Vince Lombardi and Jack Kerouac, or is it brilliant shtick? That's not entirely clear.

Agreed. But to add mystery to the situation, if you do a search for his posts, you'll find that they used to be coherent. *cue twilight zone music*

 

[Tanner9919]

seemed to me that the Patriots' problem of late, more than just a porous defense, has been that they score too quickly..they don't have an effective running game , so they don't wear down the clock, they ranked 27th in time of posession stat last season..

I think if they slowed things down a bit,they'd actually win more games..

 

[CalBear]

seemed to me that the Patriots' problem of late, more than just a porous defense, has been that they score too quickly..they don't have an effective running game , so they don't wear down the clock, they ranked 27th in time of posession stat last season..

I think if they slowed things down a bit,they'd actually win more games..

They've won 27 games in the past two seasons. They have an above-league-average number of rushing attempts in that time. How many more rushing attempts do you think they should have had, and how many more games would they have won?

 

[David Yudkin]

seemed to me that the Patriots' problem of late, more than just a porous defense, has been that they score too quickly..they don't have an effective running game , so they don't wear down the clock, they ranked 27th in time of posession stat last season..

I think if they slowed things down a bit,they'd actually win more games..

They ranked poorly in TOP because their defense gave up a ton of 10+ minute drives. If the defense gets more stops, their TOP ranking will improve. But that does not automatically mean the offense will be better. They may or may not run a similar number of plays and they could take more time off the clock in running those plays.I would tend to think that if the defense performed better and the offense had the ball more, the offense would play a little more conservatively. I don't think if the offense had the ball either more in time or more in terms of number of possessions that they would just layer on more passing attempts and more points. They might get some additional yards and some additional points, but the proportion won't be the same. IE, if the Pats had the ball 10% more than last year, they may only see a 3-5% increase in yardage and points on offense. Also, in theory, if the defense played better the Pats might see more points scored by the defense or special teams . . . which would not do anything for the offense.