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If Vick is found guilty, should he be banned from NFL? (1 Viewer)

If Vick is found guilty, should he be banned from NFL?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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I don't understand the continued defense of Vick my saying "X" and "Y" are worse than what Vick did. Vick's offense should be judged on its own merits.There are a lot of things in our society that go under or unpunished but that is not a logical reason to let Vick off easy. The logical thing would be to argue that harsher punishments for others not less for Vick.
I don't understand intelligent, informed people like you advocating a brutal death sentence for Vick (three years of underground fighting with other human beings). :loco:
You took my personal feeling section out of that post. I personally think that is what should be done to him. But I realize that in a civilized world we can't do that.If you have read my other post you know I have work with the aftermath of Dog fighting operations. I know the type of "Human" that enjoys watching and taking part in this "Sport". My own personal sense of justice would be served if these "people" could experience the brutal world they create. That being said....the underground fighting in Thailand is much more humane when compared to dogfighting.Logically, I realize that would be wrong. Emotionally it would be nice to see true justice be served.
 
I don't understand the continued defense of Vick my saying "X" and "Y" are worse than what Vick did. Vick's offense should be judged on its own merits.

There are a lot of things in our society that go under or unpunished but that is not a logical reason to let Vick off easy. The logical thing would be to argue that harsher punishments for others not less for Vick.
I don't understand intelligent, informed people like you advocating a brutal death sentence for Vick (three years of underground fighting with other human beings). :thumbup:
You took my personal feeling section out of that post. I personally think that is what should be done to him. But I realize that in a civilized world we can't do that.If you have read my other post you know I have work with the aftermath of Dog fighting operations. I know the type of "Human" that enjoys watching and taking part in this "Sport". My own personal sense of justice would be served if these "people" could experience the brutal world they create. That being said....the underground fighting in Thailand is much more humane when compared to dogfighting.

Logically, I realize that would be wrong. Emotionally it would be nice to see true justice be served.
Wow. You, emotionally, really would like to see him treated the way he treated his dogs. Really? That would be nice? It would be true justice? And you'd like to see that, like watch?I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.I will remember to avoid all Vick threads.

 
I don't understand the continued defense of Vick my saying "X" and "Y" are worse than what Vick did. Vick's offense should be judged on its own merits.

There are a lot of things in our society that go under or unpunished but that is not a logical reason to let Vick off easy. The logical thing would be to argue that harsher punishments for others not less for Vick.
I don't understand intelligent, informed people like you advocating a brutal death sentence for Vick (three years of underground fighting with other human beings). :loco:
If you have read my other post you know I have work with the aftermath of Dog fighting operations. I know the type of "Human" that enjoys watching and taking part in this "Sport". My own personal sense of justice would be served if these "people" could experience the brutal world they create. That being said....the underground fighting in Thailand is much more humane when compared to dogfighting.Logically, I realize that would be wrong. Emotionally it would be nice to see true justice be served.
Wow. You, emotionally, really would like to see him treated the way he treated his dogs. Really? That would be nice? It would be true justice? And you'd like to see that, like watch?
I realize that tone and meaning can get lost on a message board. Have you ever said something (example: ah...they should castrate that ******* for "X" offense) that is emotional; realizing that it is fantasy and not realistic? You say it to express you feeling and strength of conviction.You cut my post in half.....the first part of the post is the sentence I thought he should get in the frame work of our law and civilization. You didn't include that part.

The second part of the post was my emotional gut feeling what should be done to serve justice. In the eye for an eye sense of justice, Vick should experience the horror he was responsible for.

Surely an intelligent person like yourself can understand the difference between my feelings and what I actually think should be done....read the whole post and not just the part that you use in your attempt to discredit.

You took my personal feeling section out of that post. I personally feel (feel because of emotional ties to the offense) that is what should be done to him. But I realize that in a civilized world we can't do that.

 
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I think we should just say there are strong feelings in ALL aspects of this case from different people & leave it at that.

 
by Big Score:

...doesn't seem much different to what Mike Vick and his gang did....well...except that dog racing is legal, while dog fighting is not.
Ummm, yes, of course. Greyhound killers need to be brought to justice.Score, what is your angle here? You're trying to find some bit of blatant animal cruelty that I actually support, so you can go "AHA!". :unsure:

If you wonder why people aren't outraged at Leonard Little/Greyhound racing/other stuff but are outraged at Vick: is it really so hard to understand? He's front and center right now. And yes, let me be honest and admit that my outrage at Vick will go away in due time. I'm not going to hang on to it forever.

People just don't have time and energy to stay outraged at every blessed bit of injustice out there. Even Cindy Sheehan -- who was outraged for her own son -- eventually ran out steam. Eventually, you just have to get back to living in the here and now.

So for you to throw out "Leonard Little!", "Dog Racing!", etc. just makes no sense. In your eyes, people had to have righteous indignation to all those other things before they have the right to be outraged at Vick? If so, I'm sorry to say that I think that's ridiculous. Your heart may be in the right place, but I don't think your take is at all well-reasoned.

 
by Big Score:

...doesn't seem much different to what Mike Vick and his gang did....well...except that dog racing is legal, while dog fighting is not.
Ummm, yes, of course. Greyhound killers need to be brought to justice.Score, what is your angle here?
Greyhound killing is perfectly legal. How do you bring them to justice? Do you understand the law here? It's a legal business and the breeders are within their legal rights to cull their litters as they see fit (without torture). Just like the breeders of Chihuahuas and Boxers, Great Danes and German Shorthaired Pointers, not to mention thoroughbred race horses. Culling the unfit animals is legal. With Chihuahuas they kill off the big ones, with Boxers and Great Danes the white ones get slaughtered as pups (as well as others that aren't white, but too white Aussies also get killed as pups), the unfortunate Pointers and Greyhounds get to live a little longer because like Pit Bulls they're not culled until deemed unworthy-- too slow, not enough nose, not game enough. In all of those cases it's LEGAL to kill the pups. And it's legal to do so with any breed or mixed litter. You can legally kill your puppies. If we didn't get the report about hanging, electrocuting, and drowning as part of the culling operation, then legions of dog breeders would have Vick's back on the "killing of unfit/unworthy animals" because it's what they do, and the precedent would have been unacceptable regardless of the good breeders opinions of dogfighting.

Fwiw, I understand Vick held his ground on this issue and would not plead guilty to any of the allegations involving the brutal methods of euthanizing dogs. This is from a "dog bite attorney/ambulance chaser type" friend of mine who says Vick will agree to approving certain dogs for euthanasia, but never had any idea the dogs were being put down in such horrendous fashion. He is not being charged with any of the torture stuff, and it was quite possibly listed with the various allegations for leverage. I know it's cathartic to get bent and angry at someone you dislike intensely, but I would hesitate to say for a fact that Vick did these things. This same attorney is telling me the torture was hyped to keep legit dog breeders from defending the practice of culling in this case. When Peta and the Wayne Pacelle led USHS have the ear of the media and the feds, I would advise proceeding with caution before getting too worked up about things likely sensationalized. They love to get you riled with spin.

Lord get me out of this thread...

 
Surely an intelligent person like yourself can understand the difference between my feelings and what I actually think should be done....read the whole post and not just the part that you use in your attempt to discredit.
You're probably giving me too much credit here. Maybe our brains work differently re: emotional attachment and civilized responses to serious issues. For me they are one and the same. If some WR is running down the sideline, I may momentarily want him shot in the thigh before he scores, but that's hardly a serious issue. I check my emotions at the door when we're talking about crime and punishment. I am not interested in discrediting you (pointing that out is the only reason I am replying again). I appreciate your input to this discussion as much as anyone's, but I reject you when you fall into emotional bloodlust. I don't think you want that. I too have history with the dogfighting culture and feel an emotional involvement with the story and the dogs (thus, the change in my avatar). Unfortunately, the national conversation I really wanted to see never had a chance to materialize because the outraged tapped into their own thirst for blood and took the discussion down ridiculous paths of irrational muck (let's feed Vick to the dogs).
 
I think it's funny that he hasn't even been sentenced, hasn't had any public statements since his plea, hasn't served a day, and people are already forgiving him and talking about his return.

Shouldn't we wait for something from him? Don't we need some sort of remorse, and a real public apology?

By the way, I don't think it will matter if they ban him or not - he never was a "student of the game," and in a few years the game will completely pass him by. I can't imagine he will all of a sudden "get it" when he never had it to begin with, if that makes sense.

 
With Chihuahuas they kill off the big ones, with Boxers and Great Danes the white ones get slaughtered as pups (as well as others that aren't white, but too white Aussies also get killed as pups),
Wow...what breeders do you know? The practices you talk about...culling (killing) puppies that don't "fit" are done only by Back yard breeders and puppy mills (types of unethical breeders). Anyone that is remotely close to a real dog breeder will cull dogs from the gene pool by spay/neutering them and adopting them out to non-show homes. If you know breeders who practice what you spoke of please don't buy a dog from them. While any owner of a dog can have them euthanized (by humane means) for any reason, we know Vick was punishing dogs for losing him money during fights. Drowning, beating and electricution are not legal forms of euthanasia.
 
Greyhound killing is perfectly legal. How do you bring them to justice? Do you understand the law here?
Holey moley. Please see Big Score's post on the previous page about the guy sticking an electrode up a greyhound's rectum to perform the "culling". That specifically is not legal. HTH.
by Tillmanisahero:

Wow...what breeders do you know? The practices you talk about...culling (killing) puppies that don't "fit" are done only by Back yard breeders and puppy mills (types of unethical breeders). Anyone that is remotely close to a real dog breeder will cull dogs from the gene pool by spay/neutering them and adopting them out to non-show homes. If you know breeders who practice what you spoke of please don't buy a dog from them.

While any owner of a dog can have them euthanized (by humane means) for any reason, we know Vick was punishing dogs for losing him money during fights. Drowning, beating and electricution are not legal forms of euthanasia.
:lmao: I'm not sure all the "facts" being presented in this thread are all that factual. And even if they are, Vick's still not off the hook in my book. Bring me a mile-high stack of other people's offenses ... I don't care. Not changing my mind about Vick and his situation.

 
by Big Score:

...doesn't seem much different to what Mike Vick and his gang did....well...except that dog racing is legal, while dog fighting is not.
Ummm, yes, of course. Greyhound killers need to be brought to justice.Score, what is your angle here? You're trying to find some bit of blatant animal cruelty that I actually support, so you can go "AHA!". :banned:

If you wonder why people aren't outraged at Leonard Little/Greyhound racing/other stuff but are outraged at Vick: is it really so hard to understand? He's front and center right now. And yes, let me be honest and admit that my outrage at Vick will go away in due time. I'm not going to hang on to it forever.

People just don't have time and energy to stay outraged at every blessed bit of injustice out there. Even Cindy Sheehan -- who was outraged for her own son -- eventually ran out steam. Eventually, you just have to get back to living in the here and now.

So for you to throw out "Leonard Little!", "Dog Racing!", etc. just makes no sense. In your eyes, people had to have righteous indignation to all those other things before they have the right to be outraged at Vick? If so, I'm sorry to say that I think that's ridiculous. Your heart may be in the right place, but I don't think your take is at all well-reasoned.
Hey Doug.No, there's no personal angle in my posts. It's just you seem to present a general reflection of how our society is ready to grab onto the latest sensationalized piece of news & become carried away with it, while forgetting the big picture & relegating truly horrific human crimes / events to the backburner as they are unable sustain their interest or feelings.

I am unwilling to do that.

 
No, there's no personal angle in my posts. It's just you seem to present a general reflection of how our society is ready to grab onto the latest sensationalized piece of news & become carried away with it, while forgetting the big picture & relegating truly horrific human crimes / events to the backburner as they are unable sustain their interest or feelings.I am unwilling to do that.
Everyone's got a back burner. Everyone. Things work through the mind and the emotions and end up on the back burner.Do you still stay up nights worrying about Chandra Levy? Adam Walsh? Sharon Tate?For me, I'm glad the media, in the here and now, is shining a bright light on Vick and dog fighting. So what if it goes away in a few months?
 
You all have done it. In some fashion or the other. I killed a big spider with insectiside last week and it was pre-meditated. It was in a window area of a home I was selling so the visual was not good. As I sprayed it once or twice, it withered and wiggled, and it bothered me immensley that it was somehow suffering as it was dying. But it needed to be killed in the human world I live in, so it was gone. If I had killed it like an expensive Vet, he would have charged $$ for a shot, I guess it would have been more humane. Vick and his boys killed the dogs in a fashion they probably thought was manly, but I DOUBT THEY GOT MUCH PLEASURE OUT OF WATCHING and doing. They understood as frontiersmen did seeking food, that the job had to be done as the usefulness of the animals for society was over.

Vick has been a cultural cripple and he is paying the price. To take away his livelihood is insane after watching the crooks and thugs wearing the star here in Dallas rule the 1990's with untold and told tales of misdemeanors and felonry against humans.

Give me a break.

voted No

 
Personally, I think we should tattoo the words dog abuser on Vick's forehead. He should never be allowed a second chance, ESPECIALLY not after he serves his time in prison.

Why should he get second chances? What do you people think this is, America?

 
we know Vick was punishing dogs for losing him money during fights. Drowning, beating and electricution are not legal forms of euthanasia.
What are you talking about? This is the sensationalized Peta :confused:You should be better than that. The indictment states dogs that failed tests for gameness were brutally killed in Vick's presence. Now you go making up stuff about him killing dogs for losing him money during fights. This how the conversation broke down. The specific dogs in question were not killed for losing fights or money. They were tested and deemed unworthy for the pit. Just as race dogs are deemed unworthy for the track and pointers unworthy for the field. Btw, during the most recent Westminster Dog Show they had a highly reputable boxer breeder discussing the culling (euthanasia, not spay and apopt) of the white Boxers (white ones are deaf prone). It's common practice, and many top show breeders euthanize their own. If you believe "good" breeders don't euthanize healthy substandard pups on a regular basis, you're being a little naive. Certainly they spay and adopt as much as budgets and circumstance allow, but euthanasia is part of the deal, and not uncommon simply because a momma has too large a litter to feed. From Code of Recommendations and Minimum Standards For the Welfare of Dogs
If there are a large number of pups, early euthanasia of a proportion of them may benefit the ##### and the other pups, and this should be discussed with an expert.
I'm not sure all the "facts" being presented in this thread are all that factual.
True.
 
we know Vick was punishing dogs for losing him money during fights. Drowning, beating and electricution are not legal forms of euthanasia.
What are you talking about? This is the sensationalized Peta :unsure: You should be better than that.

The indictment states dogs that failed tests for gameness were brutally killed in Vick's presence. Now you go making up stuff about him killing dogs for losing him money during fights. This how the conversation broke down. The specific dogs in question were not killed for losing fights or money. They were tested and deemed unworthy for the pit. Just as race dogs are deemed unworthy for the track and pointers unworthy for the field.

Btw, during the most recent Westminster Dog Show they had a highly reputable boxer breeder discussing the culling (euthanasia, not spay and apopt) of the white Boxers (white ones are deaf prone). It's common practice, and many top show breeders euthanize their own. If you believe "good" breeders don't euthanize healthy substandard pups on a regular basis, you're being a little naive. Certainly they spay and adopt as much as budgets and circumstance allow, but euthanasia is part of the deal, and not uncommon simply because a momma has too large a litter to feed.

.
Do you know how they test dogs for Gameness? The "roll" them which is a nice word for informal fight. If you think he didn't brutalize the dogs he lost huge amounts of money on...you are the naive one.

PLEASE show me any reputable breeder that admits to killing puppies because they have a non-life threating defect (ie color or size) I have been around dogs all my life and have never met a well know breeder that does this.

 

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