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If you had or do have a young son would you let him play American Football? (1 Viewer)

Would you let your son play football?

  • Yes

    Votes: 67 44.1%

  • No

    Votes: 85 55.9%
  • Total voters
    152
the moops said:
What are the chances that any of those injuries are going to cause short term memory loss, or depression, or suicidal thoughts, or....
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What are the chances that a kid playing football as a youth or even through HS will develop those symptoms?

I obviously don't know the answer to that, but it is clearly far, far lower than it is for NFL players.

 
[scooter] said:
Yes there is a false equivalency. But it's not between football and small dogs; it's between football and other sports.

The risk of permanent brain damage from football is SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER than any other sport*. Let's stop pretending that this isn't a fact. That's why the whole "there's risk everywhere" argument is such a red herring. Yes there is risk everywhere -- BUT NOT ALL RISK IS THE SAME. Just like not all dogs are the same, just like not all vehicles are the same, etc., etc.
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My sons football team suffered a tragic event this year with a player going down with a head injury.  He was not expected to make it through the night but is fighting it now. Knowing this could be my son I would let him follow the same path from youth through high school because of the joy it brought him and the friendships he made.  I also know he is more likely to have something bad happen to him off the field than on. 

This also  goes for letting my daughter be a cheerleader if she wanted to.  They suffer a high rate off traumatic injuries.  Possibly more than football players.

I just want them to live and enjoy life.  It can be taken a lot quicker off the field than on.

 
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Good Posting Judge said:
 Youth tackle football is a pretty clear no-go unless you have no regard for your kid's safety or well-being.
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I watched eight 7th grade football games last season and there wasn't a single play where I thought "oh #### I hope that boy is ok" that had anything to do with a head (there were a couple lower body injuries). The kids just aren't big and fast enough to do the damage college and above players do. 

Hockey on the other hand? Far to frequent. But oddly its worse when they first start hitting when they're 11 or 12.  First year it's allowed it's all they want to do, and they don't know when and when not to hit. 

 
 Have a couple of boys that play.  Their mother has already stated years ago, "Your first concussion/stinger/bell ringer wtf ever they want to call it these days will be your last one!"   I loved playing football, and living in Oklahoma it is more a religion and also encapsulates social circles, but if my boys said they didn't want to play anymore, I wouldn't be sad.  

 
the moops said:
What are the chances that any of those injuries are going to cause short term memory loss, or depression, or suicidal thoughts, or....
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Well, I suffered a serious concussion in basketball.  Ended up vomiting from it.  Worse than anything I experienced in HS or college football.

 
Jayrod said:
Well, I suffered a serious concussion in basketball.  Ended up vomiting from it.  Worse than anything I experienced in HS or college football.
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I've had 8 to 12 concussions.

None were from  football :unsure:

 
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Jayrod said:
The issue isn't risk, but increased levels of risk.  "How risk tolerant are we?" is the true question.  If we want to go anecdotal, the only concussion I ever suffered was a head to head collision in a basketball game as an 7th grader.  Clearly there is increased risk of brain injury from basketball.  I also got hit in the mouth with a line drive practicing baseball when I was 13.  The only thing that saved my teeth was my new braces.  Clearly there is increased risk of brain injury from baseball.

So what it boils down to is how much increased risk involved and acceptable and that is where the debate lies.  I'm arguing the increased risk of a boy playing tackle football from ages 10-18 is much less than it used to be and is within an acceptable level on par with other common sports.  Some people disagree.

According to this study, "Among athletes ages 5 to 14, 28 percent of percent of football players, 25 percent of baseball players, 22 percent of soccer players, 15 percent of basketball players, and 12 percent of softball players were injured while playing their respective sports."
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What kind of injuries are they counting here?  Just concussions?  Or are we talking anything from muscle pulls, to torn ACLs, and concussions?  All sports carry risks, of course.  But, I'm not going to be as concerned with "little Johnny getting a boo boo" as much as I am an injury that causes long term damage and affects his adult life.

 
Nigel said:
I watched eight 7th grade football games last season and there wasn't a single play where I thought "oh #### I hope that boy is ok" that had anything to do with a head (there were a couple lower body injuries). The kids just aren't big and fast enough to do the damage college and above players do. 

Hockey on the other hand? Far to frequent. But oddly its worse when they first start hitting when they're 11 or 12.  First year it's allowed it's all they want to do, and they don't know when and when not to hit. 
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That must have been some bad 7th grade football then. I would agree with you if you had said 3rd grade.  In my area, that is the first year to play tackle, so even the better athletes are getting used to the equipment.  7th graders are a different story.  There are usually some really strong, fast kids at that age, and the danger is usually when they meet on the field against someone who is not as fast or strong.

 
Bull Dozier said:
That must have been some bad 7th grade football then. I would agree with you if you had said 3rd grade.  In my area, that is the first year to play tackle, so even the better athletes are getting used to the equipment.  7th graders are a different story.  There are usually some really strong, fast kids at that age, and the danger is usually when they meet on the field against someone who is not as fast or strong.
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As a ref, it is 8th grade when the real hitting begins.  I did a lot of 7th and 8th grade nights and the difference between the 2 games was usually night and day.  There was an occasional bigger kid in 7th grade, but by 8th grade, you had 7-10 kids on each team that looked more like men.

 
Bull Dozier said:
What kind of injuries are they counting here?  Just concussions?  Or are we talking anything from muscle pulls, to torn ACLs, and concussions?  All sports carry risks, of course.  But, I'm not going to be as concerned with "little Johnny getting a boo boo" as much as I am an injury that causes long term damage and affects his adult life.
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It was all injuries included, but I think it was only injuries that required some sort of treatment and inability to play.

 
:grad:

True migraines aren't very well understood, but typically are not a symptom of brain injury.  What concussions sufferers are calling migraines are likely just injury symptoms as opposed to migraines which appear to be more closely linked to brain stem chemistry and hormones.

 
If anyone wants some completely useless anecdotal evidence to completely mess with this thread, my 15 year old son has had less frequent migraine episodes since recovering from his second concussion. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
That must have been some bad 7th grade football then. I would agree with you if you had said 3rd grade.  In my area, that is the first year to play tackle, so even the better athletes are getting used to the equipment.  7th graders are a different story.  There are usually some really strong, fast kids at that age, and the danger is usually when they meet on the field against someone who is not as fast or strong.
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Yeah, it wasn't great at the start. Only 2 of 17 (small roster, only 55 boys in the class) on my son's team had played before. Lots of very good athletes (hockey, hoops, lax players) who were just learning the game. They ended up being pretty good though, played all of the top prep/private/Catholic teams in MA and only loss was to an 8th grade team. 

I never played, mother wouldn't let me. Wish I had though. I don't think any other sport teaches accountability and teamwork like football does. 

 
Bull Dozier said:
If anyone wants some completely useless anecdotal evidence to completely mess with this thread, my 15 year old son has had less frequent migraine episodes since recovering from his second concussion. 
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So what you are saying is that repeated concussions can cure migraines.

 
proninja said:
Your argument that youth is different than higher levels makes a lot of sense. Here's why I have an issue with it. 

If my boy plays football, and it's his thing - he loves it, he's good at it, it's the thing he most enjoys doing, do I then force him to quit when he's older and it gets more dangerous? What if he's got colleges coming after him? At some point in time it gets impossible to put the toothpaste back in the tube. 
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I don't know. I don't intend to force my kids to do anything once they are adults, however.

I will provide my perspective and counsel them in what I think is wise, but based on history they will just do the opposite anyway.

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I don't know. I don't intend to force my kids to do anything once they are adults, however.

I will provide my perspective and counsel them in what I think is wise, but based on history they will just do the opposite anyway.
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Guys making me feast on what appears brutal honesty   love it!

 
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I just wanna say thank-you to the parents who've chosen too allow their men to play Football..  I know its questionable in nature   Using the body as a weapon..  I mean treat the body like a temple..  (While we get too see it PAY! on the field)  Non-Christians rock them bods too!  I may not have anything in common with some folks, but I should have love of the game (Football)   So ya think I don't like ya,, Yeah, Whose your favorite team brah?    Now if we don't have Football, think SHTF more everyday

 
Dismattle said:
Guys making me feast on what appears brutal honesty   love it!
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Dismattle said:
I just wanna say thank-you to the parents who've chosen too allow their men to play Football..  I know its questionable in nature   Using the body as a weapon..  I mean treat the body like a temple..  (While we get too see it PAY! on the field)  Non-Christians rock them bods too!  I may not have anything in common with some folks, but I should have love of the game (Football)   So ya think I don't like ya,, Yeah, Whose your favorite team brah?    Now if we don't have Football, think SHTF more everyday
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Get a load of this freaking guy.

 
Dismattle said:
I just wanna say thank-you to the parents who've chosen too allow their men to play Football..  I know its questionable in nature   Using the body as a weapon..  I mean treat the body like a temple..  (While we get too see it PAY! on the field)  Non-Christians rock them bods too!  I may not have anything in common with some folks, but I should have love of the game (Football)   So ya think I don't like ya,, Yeah, Whose your favorite team brah?    Now if we don't have Football, think SHTF more everyday
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If I have to choose between SWC's complete lack of punctuation and this random punctuation, it is SWC for the win every time. 

 
Conanthecontrarian said:
If I have to choose between SWC's complete lack of punctuation and this random punctuation, it is SWC for the win every time. 
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Why not just block?  Just say to yourself oh look sumpin on bottom of my shoe..  (I'm okay with reading grade school comments)  Ignorance is bliss!   Think your trying to look mean?

(fyi) its fixed on my end,,  Yeah

 
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Bull Dozier said:
What kind of injuries are they counting here?  Just concussions?  Or are we talking anything from muscle pulls, to torn ACLs, and concussions?  All sports carry risks, of course.  But, I'm not going to be as concerned with "little Johnny getting a boo boo" as much as I am an injury that causes long term damage and affects his adult life.
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I found a meta study of the incidence of concussions in youth sports that I linked up above. Football has more concussions than most other youth sports, but notably less than rugby or hockey. Put another way, it carries higher than average risk of a concussion, but it isn't an extreme outlier.

Concussions are a scary thing to have happen to a kid. One of my kids got a mild concussion and we followed the post-concussion protocol to the letter. In his case, he got it bouncing on a trampoline at a friend's hose.

But while concussions aren't desirable in any way, there isn't any evidence that a single ordinary concussion is likely to cause the kind of long-term negative effects that are associated with CTE. And that fact, combined with the incidence data, informs my opinion on the appropriate family policy about football (or any other contact sport). But then again, I tend to be pretty far from an alarmist.

If any of my kids was playing football, rugby, ice hockey, lacrosse or any other sport with a relatively high incidence of concussion, I would stop them from participating if they got a second one. 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I found a meta study of the incidence of concussions in youth sports that I linked up above. Football has more concussions than most other youth sports, but notably less than rugby or hockey. Put another way, it carries higher than average risk of a concussion, but it isn't an extreme outlier.

Concussions are a scary thing to have happen to a kid. One of my kids got a mild concussion and we followed the post-concussion protocol to the letter. In his case, he got it bouncing on a trampoline at a friend's hose.

But while concussions aren't desirable in any way, there isn't any evidence that a single ordinary concussion is likely to cause the kind of long-term negative effects that are associated with CTE. And that fact, combined with the incidence data, informs my opinion on the appropriate family policy about football (or any other contact sport). But then again, I tend to be pretty far from an alarmist.

If any of my kids was playing football, rugby, ice hockey, lacrosse or any other sport with a relatively high incidence of concussion, I would stop them from participating if they got a second one. 
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Agree with the bolded, which is why it isn't an activity my kids will be participating in any longer (since my son had two in one season).  That said, I would dissuade other parents from allowing their kids to play since I have experienced just that first hand, and wouldn't want anyone else to have to go through the same thing.  Seeing your first born son lie motionless on a field while you sit there helpless, knowing they were participating in something you not just allowed, but encouraged is very helpless feeling.  I am biased by personal experience and readily admit that.  I'm not coming at it from a scientific perspective where I need to debate what studies have or have no proven to be convinced.  I also understand I am not going to convince anyone else who hasn't experienced it first hand, but the exchange of perspectives is always insightful. :thumbup:   

 
Bull Dozier said:
Agree with the bolded, which is why it isn't an activity my kids will be participating in any longer (since my son had two in one season).  That said, I would dissuade other parents from allowing their kids to play since I have experienced just that first hand, and wouldn't want anyone else to have to go through the same thing.  Seeing your first born son lie motionless on a field while you sit there helpless, knowing they were participating in something you not just allowed, but encouraged is very helpless feeling.  I am biased by personal experience and readily admit that.  I'm not coming at it from a scientific perspective where I need to debate what studies have or have no proven to be convinced.  I also understand I am not going to convince anyone else who hasn't experienced it first hand, but the exchange of perspectives is always insightful. :thumbup:   
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Okay, for the sake of argument let's say that one of your kids (assuming you have more than one) wanted to play hockey or lacrosse, or another sport with an above average risk of concussions. What then?

 
I've always answered yes. Played in HS and college myself.  The days where we didn't get concussions, just got our bells rung... get a QUICK sip of water and then back in the game (or even practice). 

Ive had my share of concussions, but never thought much of it. With this latest round of research, I wonder if I myself could even have some level of damage. Was a running back/defensive back/kick returner so a lot of contact and running into the pile. While I don't recall that many "major" concussions two stand out that actually concern me now.

One was practice when we were doing over the top drills. Good news? I made it over the pile. Untouched. Both hands on the ball. None to break my fall - my head did that. Until now what I thought was the worst part of that was the lingering neck pain I get... wonder if there's more.

the worse was when I got just destroyed while trying to stretch for a couple yards by the sideline in a game. Was nailed hard and helicoptered before landing. Knocked out for a few seconds and when I got up, started jogging/stumbling to the wrong bench.  My teammates turned me around and when I returned to the sideline, got the hey Koya (well my last name), get back in next play.

this is the first time those are not humble brag fun war stories ... and as noted above, it's possible even I have some lasting effects. With that in mind, how can I let who and my love of the game and "being a man in a mans sport" trump the safety of a child?

but I'll be damned if they play soccer :boxing:  

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
Okay, for the sake of argument let's say that one of your kids (assuming you have more than one) wanted to play hockey or lacrosse, or another sport with an above average risk of concussions. What then?
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I don't know the answer to the following question, so I would need to look into the answer.  My opinion of football (as previously conveyed in my back and forth with Jayrod) is that a football player cannot personally control the risk of a concussion, since the actions of the other players on the court contribute significantly to the risk of a concussion.  That is why it is out to me.  Now, is the same true for the concussion risks in hockey or lacrosse?  If so, I would prohibit those as well.

Now, that said, both of my sons play basketball, and yet, concussions are a risk in basketball as well.  Is that hypocritical?  Possibly.  However, I feel that the play "style" of players contribute to and potentially decrease the concussion risk of players.  To explain, I know kids who are the first to dive on the floor for a loose ball, always willing to step in the lane to take a charge, and fight hard under the boards for rebounds.  Those are the types of plays I most commonly see contact to the head and/or concussion risks (yes, there are others, but I put those in the same category of risk of every sport, which I don't consider to be significant enough to deter participation).  My boys (as much as they have been coached to do exactly that) don't play like that for the most part.  They shy away from contact, they play on the fringe, they are guards and stay out of the lane.  The older one (who has had the concussion) is willing to step up and take a charge, and I have explained to him while that is the correct play, to be sure to protect himself when falling to the floor (most of the charges he takes are actually "flops" as he falls to protect himself).

TLDR, I would not let my kids participate in the sports most at risk for head injury (football, hockey, lacrosse and rugby based on your list), but I do let them participate in the next level down of "danger" sports, but with education

 
My nephew is going into his senior year in high school and had at least 5 D1 scholarships on the table. I believe he just committed to one, although I'm not certain on the terminology. Offensive tackle, so he's getting that low-impact pounding every single play. He's a great kid and I Iove him like my own kids. He's one of those kids you get the idea he could do anything in life he wants to do. My sister is totally freaked out by this stuff.  They aren't in poverty or even close, but this is an extremely fortunate situation for them financially - really something that will change their lives if he can go to 4 years of college at no cost to them.  Having played football for the past 6-7 years or so, and done very well with it, I just think its impossible for anyone to tell this kid he can't play in college.

 
Nigel said:
I watched eight 7th grade football games last season and there wasn't a single play where I thought "oh #### I hope that boy is ok" that had anything to do with a head (there were a couple lower body injuries). The kids just aren't big and fast enough to do the damage college and above players do. 

Hockey on the other hand? Far to frequent. But oddly its worse when they first start hitting when they're 11 or 12.  First year it's allowed it's all they want to do, and they don't know when and when not to hit. 
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hockey players don't start checking at the age of 11 or 12, not in the USA anyways, they probably do in Canada though.  You are correct though, some kids just want to get to Bantams so they can try and crush people all game, that's their only mission.

 
My wife is dead set on my boys, now 4 years and 18 months, will not play football. My family really was against me playing football but that was all about the knees and physical abuse your body can take. I regretted not playing. Because of that, I had previously put thought into these kind of things and had the viewpoint of letting my kids do what they wanted to do when it came to what activities they wanted to pursue. 

This is different to me and worries me more. This new study seems to suggest that it is not a question of it you get the brain damage but when. 

I expect there will be a lot more information available down the line that I don't have to worry about it for a bit. 

 
proninja said:
This is what I meant a couple pages ago by you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Even if youth football isn't dangerous, it's totally unfair to the kid to make him stop once he's older, really good at it, and it's his thing. Whatever decision you make, it seems like you need to make it based on assuming the kid plays in HS and college. 
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Considering less than 7% of HS players go on to play NCAA football at any level (Divisions 1-3), I don't think that is a very sound assumption.

 
Chadstroma said:
My wife is dead set on my boys, now 4 years and 18 months, will not play football. My family really was against me playing football but that was all about the knees and physical abuse your body can take. I regretted not playing. Because of that, I had previously put thought into these kind of things and had the viewpoint of letting my kids do what they wanted to do when it came to what activities they wanted to pursue. 

This is different to me and worries me more. This new study seems to suggest that it is not a question of it you get the brain damage but when. 

I expect there will be a lot more information available down the line that I don't have to worry about it for a bit. 
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Sure, for players that compete in the NFL for a significant period of time. Less than 2% of high school football players ever even make it on an NFL roster.

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
Sure, for players that compete in the NFL for a significant period of time. Less than 2% of high school football players ever even make it on an NFL roster.
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Actually, the investigation found 48 out of the 53 college player brains studied were affected also....3 out of the 14 high school

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
Ugh. Okay. I missed that, as I had only seen highlights from the study.

I guess I will go read it and see if I change my opinion.
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LINK

Still a limited study, obviously.  Far from random sampling and no way to make comparisons to the general population, but pretty staggering numbers nonetheless.

 
Galileo said:
LINK

Still a limited study, obviously.  Far from random sampling and no way to make comparisons to the general population, but pretty staggering numbers nonetheless.
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Yeah. The concern I have about studies like these is that they usually draw from populations that suffered untimely deaths. That is likely to result in a severe skew to the data.

 
proninja said:
Let me clarify. I don't think it's likely that my son would ever play in college, but the time to make the decision on whether or not he should is when he's young, because if he's gotten good enough to the point where it's an option, there's no way you can tell the kid no then. 
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I would suggest that based on your genetics (and mine too), the odds of any of our progeny playing college football is far, far below that 7% number.

 
proninja said:
I'd agree. Another good reason to not do football. May as well get him started in something that he's not at a huge physiological disadvantage out of the gate.  
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My approach has always been to let my kids play any sports they want to and to not push them in any given direction.

One son played three seasons of tackle football, but decided to stop on his own (though I think my ex-wife had some influence on him and she is definitely an alarmist on the concussion front). My other son hasn't played and neither have my step-sons.

Of course, this approach has also netted me a couple kids who love friggin' baseball, so there is definitely a downside to it.

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
Sure, for players that compete in the NFL for a significant period of time. Less than 2% of high school football players ever even make it on an NFL roster.
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Am i misreading something?  There is no way ~2% of high school football players ever make an NFL roster.  more like .001%.

 
ILUVBEER99 said:
Am i misreading something?  There is no way ~2% of high school football players ever make an NFL roster.  more like .001%.
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2% seems high to me.  I don't know the exact percentages but here are some numbers.

At any one time there are over 1600 players in the NFL, almost all of which have played High School ball.  In 2016 there were over a million boys playing High School Football in America.

There is also a large turn over in Football, more than any other sport, so the pool is being refreshed quickly.

 
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