If you were starting a small business with <10K startup capital... (1 Viewer)

[Abraham]

The list is something I believe in wholeheartedly. The landscaping business is the first/best that came to mind with just a small amount of thought. Not backtracking on it, but there are clearly some challenges (many of which have been outlined here).

Starting a business without much capital and without much expertise can be a challenge. One thing that most people don't understand about starting a business is that finding a customer seems easy, and it is. Finding enough customers to move your business from "a few hundred bucks a month extra" to a real source of extra, or even primary, income can be a significant challenge.

 

[mr roboto]

Before everyone jumps all over Abe; he's working with $10k here. While the "landscaping" result might not be mindblowing, his post was pretty good in terms of what to look for.

WRT landcaping, I pay a guy $2k/year to cut, edge and bag my grass (approximately .25 acres in a residential area of a city). I'm one contract that covers 20% of the capital investment. I've watched this guy work...he's got one other guy he works with (I'm sure he pays him $10/hr) and they knock it out in less than an hour. The owner takes home $40/hr give or take. Not too bad if you can build up some clientele.

Abe referenced commercial landscaping, though many of the same issues would apply to residential.

FWIW - I know two guys that started residential landscaping businesses (mowing lawns) because they couldn't finish college. Both are quite successful (guessing 300k-400k+ net per year). But they worked their asses off for years and built up a reliable client base. Neither one does any of the physical labor any more, but it took a long time to get to this point.

In short, like most things it can be done, but it takes a lot of time and work to get it going.

I think if you change "commercial" to "residential" the idea has some merit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your 'commercial' experience is with the really big boys, right? Lots of smaller local businesses are very similar to residential in the way you market, sell, and deliver service. Insurance agents, restaurants, small office buildings etc.

 

[krista4]

The list is something I believe in wholeheartedly. The landscaping business is the first/best that came to mind with just a small amount of thought. Not backtracking on it, but there are clearly some challenges (many of which have been outlined here).

Starting a business without much capital and without much expertise can be a challenge. One thing that most people don't understand about starting a business is that finding a customer seems easy, and it is. Finding enough customers to move your business from "a few hundred bucks a month extra" to a real source of extra, or even primary, income can be a significant challenge.

Like I said, loved your list. You clearly put so much more time into this than most, which is why you will have a very successful business someday. Oddly enough you happened upon a business I know a ton about and can warn you and others against. Applying those criteria to come up with other ideas will be a great way to think through this. I really admire you and others who have this entrepreneurial spirit.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I forgot to mention the issue in commercial landscaping with energy costs. Fuel prices go up, your business suffers. This is why I mentioned software as well--the routing and scheduling is key in terms of saving fuel costs. Do you know how much you save just by having software that eliminates left turns (hint: a lot)? Big companies can hedge against rising fuel costs, but little guys mostly can't and are at their mercy.

Anyway, love this thread.

 

[NCCommish]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

 

[krista4]

Before everyone jumps all over Abe; he's working with $10k here. While the "landscaping" result might not be mindblowing, his post was pretty good in terms of what to look for.

WRT landcaping, I pay a guy $2k/year to cut, edge and bag my grass (approximately .25 acres in a residential area of a city). I'm one contract that covers 20% of the capital investment. I've watched this guy work...he's got one other guy he works with (I'm sure he pays him $10/hr) and they knock it out in less than an hour. The owner takes home $40/hr give or take. Not too bad if you can build up some clientele.

Abe referenced commercial landscaping, though many of the same issues would apply to residential.

FWIW - I know two guys that started residential landscaping businesses (mowing lawns) because they couldn't finish college. Both are quite successful (guessing 300k-400k+ net per year). But they worked their asses off for years and built up a reliable client base. Neither one does any of the physical labor any more, but it took a long time to get to this point.

In short, like most things it can be done, but it takes a lot of time and work to get it going.

I think if you change "commercial" to "residential" the idea has some merit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your 'commercial' experience is with the really big boys, right? Lots of smaller local businesses are very similar to residential in the way you market, sell, and deliver service. Insurance agents, restaurants, small office buildings etc.

My company was one of the big boys, but they did all kinds of jobs, including smaller local ones. In fact it was their turn away from those contracts (lower margins) to try to focus only on the big boys that was part of the downfall. Small local businesses can thrive in the commercial market for many services, including pest services which is a business I mentioned earlier--landscaping is one for which I know that the market is different, though. For one thing the margins are just so tight (as opposed to residential) that small changes you can't control--such as fuel and weather as mentioned earlier--can't be overcome.

Hmmmm, come to think of it, pest services might be a business to consider. Someone run it through Abe's criteria!

 

[(HULK)]

Don't you need a liscense to do pest stuff? And probably liability insurance? (ie, you drop some posion down and their kid/dog/cat licks it).

 

[Abraham]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Small world in this thread. I am currently the sales director for a Managed Services company and bang my head against the wall that I didn't find this path sooner.

 

[krista4]

Don't you need a liscense to do pest stuff? And probably liability insurance? (ie, you drop some posion down and their kid/dog/cat licks it).

Yes, you need a license, which is not hard to get. You need insurance (need that for lawn care, too). There are liability concerns but not as much as you'd think. It's a market that is growing really fast, but only in some areas of the country and much more so internationally. Probably not a candidate, but better than lawn care. Also the big players in this market are HUGELY acquisitive, so you have a nice exit strategy if you build something up.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Before everyone jumps all over Abe; he's working with $10k here. While the "landscaping" result might not be mindblowing, his post was pretty good in terms of what to look for.

WRT landcaping, I pay a guy $2k/year to cut, edge and bag my grass (approximately .25 acres in a residential area of a city). I'm one contract that covers 20% of the capital investment. I've watched this guy work...he's got one other guy he works with (I'm sure he pays him $10/hr) and they knock it out in less than an hour. The owner takes home $40/hr give or take. Not too bad if you can build up some clientele.

Abe referenced commercial landscaping.

 

[sublimeone]

Before everyone jumps all over Abe; he's working with $10k here. While the "landscaping" result might not be mindblowing, his post was pretty good in terms of what to look for.

WRT landcaping, I pay a guy $2k/year to cut, edge and bag my grass (approximately .25 acres in a residential area of a city). I'm one contract that covers 20% of the capital investment. I've watched this guy work...he's got one other guy he works with (I'm sure he pays him $10/hr) and they knock it out in less than an hour. The owner takes home $40/hr give or take. Not too bad if you can build up some clientele.

Abe referenced commercial landscaping, though many of the same issues would apply to residential.

FWIW - I know two guys that started residential landscaping businesses (mowing lawns) because they couldn't finish college. Both are quite successful (guessing 300k-400k+ net per year). But they worked their asses off for years and built up a reliable client base. Neither one does any of the physical labor any more, but it took a long time to get to this point.

In short, like most things it can be done, but it takes a lot of time and work to get it going.

I think if you change "commercial" to "residential" the idea has some merit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your 'commercial' experience is with the really big boys, right? Lots of smaller local businesses are very similar to residential in the way you market, sell, and deliver service. Insurance agents, restaurants, small office buildings etc.

This is what I was thinking as well. "Commercial" covers a pretty wide spectrum.

 

[Vrana]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Small world in this thread. I am currently the sales director for a Managed Services company and bang my head against the wall that I didn't find this path sooner.

What does this even mean? What do you do?

 

[Fennis]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Small world in this thread. I am currently the sales director for a Managed Services company and bang my head against the wall that I didn't find this path sooner.

What does this even mean? What do you do?

competitive chess

 

[Abraham]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Small world in this thread. I am currently the sales director for a Managed Services company and bang my head against the wall that I didn't find this path sooner.

What does this even mean? What do you do?

Managed services = outsourced IT. My company is contracted by companies that are big enough to need IT support (5+ people) but too small to justify hiring someone in house. For example, an entry level IT person would cost at least 40k plus another 10 in burden costs. A company with 20 people needs someone that can handle IT. Instead of spending 50k a year on some entry level guy that might get sick or needs to take vacation, etc. they contract with a company like mine that monitors, manages, and supports the entire IT environment for about 1/3 of the cost. They have the benefits of a full service IT department without the cost of bringing it in house.

 

[Joe T]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Which is it? Not sure I agree with either however.

 

[None_More_Black]

10k for a landscaping business would be tough unless you already have something that can pull a decent sized trailer. I think a painting or stucco business would be better.

 

[mr roboto]

You could open with 10k if you partner with someone who already had the tools and trade experience. You bring capital for new marketing package and do the sales.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Good thread, nice to see the back and forth over the ideas. Abe, I really like Altucher's blog too - has really changed the way I think about some things.

Unrelated to the ideas already present in this thread, but I had a job for a short while recently that was a bit all over the place - they did printing, marketing, embroidery, etc. A lot of the customers that had marketing needs would buy things like pens, mugs, notebooks, etc. with their company logo on the items. We had a membership to a promotional sales organization that gave us access to all sorts of vendors that sold promo items - all we did was find what the customer wanted, send the vendor a PO, and then they would blind ship the items to our customer, and we usually marked this up anywhere from 25-100%, depending on the item. Seemed like basically anyone could get into it very easily, IF you could make the sales - the hard part, obviously. Very low maintenance beyond making the sale itself, though.

 

[Dudley Do-Right]

Good thread, nice to see the back and forth over the ideas. Abe, I really like Altucher's blog too - has really changed the way I think about some things.

Unrelated to the ideas already present in this thread, but I had a job for a short while recently that was a bit all over the place - they did printing, marketing, embroidery, etc. A lot of the customers that had marketing needs would buy things like pens, mugs, notebooks, etc. with their company logo on the items. We had a membership to a promotional sales organization that gave us access to all sorts of vendors that sold promo items - all we did was find what the customer wanted, send the vendor a PO, and then they would blind ship the items to our customer, and we usually marked this up anywhere from 25-100%, depending on the item. Seemed like basically anyone could get into it very easily, IF you could make the sales - the hard part, obviously. Very low maintenance beyond making the sale itself, though.

This is interesting. Any idea what the membership to the promotional sales organization cost? I would assume small businesses were your target market with this stuff. Were you selling this stuff over the phone with cold calls?

 

[NCCommish]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Which is it? Not sure I agree with either however.

Well underfunding is definitely one of the biggest points of failure for all businesses. As to the second that was specific to the Managed Services idea I mentioned.

 

[Abraham]

The most revealing thing to me about IT services is that literally everyone is a potential customer. My last Business was very specific and the market was very specific as well. That made finding prospects and building sales relationships very challenging. If you had a falling out with a customer (and we had plenty) you would eventually run out of people locally to call on.

IT services market is almost literally unlimited. 99.9% of businesses have a computer integral to their daily processes. That makes then a potential customer.

 

[Mario Kart]

What about coding? Use the money to build an idea which would build into an app you code yourself.

 

[NCCommish]

If I had under 10k I wouldn't bother. The biggest obstacle most new ventures face is under funding. 10k is underfunded. If I had 100k as mentioned later I would look into building up a Managed Services Consultancy. The margins can be huge. I have seen over 75% on flat rate accounts. You can outsource most of the level 1 support and all the tools for monitoring managing the network are readily available and well packaged. A couple of clients gets you going and from there it becomes about scaling up. 100k would probably work if you didn't have to hire someone or if you could give them a piece of the action for taking a smaller salary.

Technical skills are probably the biggest obstacle but can be overcome.

Small world in this thread. I am currently the sales director for a Managed Services company and bang my head against the wall that I didn't find this path sooner.

Yeah we are getting ready to fully rollout our new system. The last piece is to decide on an outsourced level one helpdesk. We are looking at several options. The big concern has been getting a helpdesk in North America and that has gotten easier. Seems like Canada is a hotbed for call centers. We are also looking at one based near Pittsburgh. Lots of choices trying to make sure we get it right.

 

[NCCommish]

The most revealing thing to me about IT services is that literally everyone is a potential customer. My last Business was very specific and the market was very specific as well. That made finding prospects and building sales relationships very challenging. If you had a falling out with a customer (and we had plenty) you would eventually run out of people locally to call on.

IT services market is almost literally unlimited. 99.9% of businesses have a computer integral to their daily processes. That makes then a potential customer.

Yeah we concentrate on businesses with less than 100 seats vertical doesn't matter. In businesses of less than 100 seats something like 75% have no internal IT support. Those that do tend to have someone who is wearing more than one hat doing it. The market is wide and deep.

 

[Abraham]

 

[Maelstrom]

So, mowing lawns.

Not exciting, but with modest startup funds (i.e. not enough to hire a staff or develop/create anything interesting or useful) it fits all the major requirements for a small business that won't make you want to jump off a bridge.

Anecdotal, of course, but I have a former workmate who started with basic landscaping (commercial), specializing in doing mulch spreading, of all things. He took the money and starting going and buying his mulch in bulk, bought an old dump truck. Then started doing enough business he was able to upgrade to a trailer and then started selling the mulch as well. Built that into a little mom-pop style Nursery selling a couple different kinds of mulch, stone, you name it. They deliver, but don't know if they actually still do the spreading. As far as I know, they moved away from the landscaping business itself, and into the landscape supplies business. And in the winter they do snow removal, using the same equipment they use for moving mulch &amp; stone in the summer (plus their big 4x4 trucks).

 

[mr roboto]

I have a business idea for rocks, but it may just be a website/exchange.

 

[soothsayer]

It seems like people are always willing to spend money on their kids and their pets. That's all I've got.

 

[Gopher State]

I knew a guy who started a home delivery service for propane for gas grills and rv's and ice fishing heaters etc. He had a web site that people pre-paid for the propane, and he would come out to their homes and switch out and hook up to their grills/rv's etc. He also did grill cleaning. Told me he had more business in the winter delivering gas tanks for ice fishing, heaters etc. then in the summer. Start up was propane tanks, and he had a rack built to fit his truck to haul them. I haven't talked to him in a while since I moved away from him, but I know I hate lugging those gas tanks home for the grill.

 

[Maelstrom]

What about coding? Use the money to build an idea which would build into an app you code yourself.

There are quite a few people doing well with subscription based SAAS (software as a service) type websites, or even apps. Might be a bit tough to get going for under $10k, but it would be doable.

Couple recent stories/"what we did" about this:

http://blog.idonethis.com/post/59489601294/how-we-got-to-1-000-in-recurring-revenue

http://blog.statuspage.io/5-steps-to-5000-in-monthly-recurring-revenue

http://blog.statuspage.io/growing-from-5000-to-25000-in-mrr

How I'd start (and got a few ideas to test out)

1. Figure out your market (i.e. find a problem you can and are going to solve)
2. Figure out the minimal thing people will pay for to fix that problem
3. Build splash page advertising service with at minimum an email signup, or better, a registration process
4. Advertise splash page to determine if the interest we think is there really there (i.e. do we get signups?)
5. Adjust plan as needed
6. Build minimal product, take credit cards (i.e. payment) immediately, no extended beta/free trials
7. Build to $1000/month recurring revenue
8. Adjust as necessary based on how people are using your product
9. Build new features as they are requested and if people are willing to pay more for the additional features

 

[One]

The most revealing thing to me about IT services is that literally everyone is a potential customer. My last Business was very specific and the market was very specific as well. That made finding prospects and building sales relationships very challenging. If you had a falling out with a customer (and we had plenty) you would eventually run out of people locally to call on.

IT services market is almost literally unlimited. 99.9% of businesses have a computer integral to their daily processes. That makes then a potential customer.

Abe, I'm pretty technical and have always been skilled with business development. What kind of skills or certs would I need to pick up in order to align with this type of work?

 

[jwb]

The most revealing thing to me about IT services is that literally everyone is a potential customer. My last Business was very specific and the market was very specific as well. That made finding prospects and building sales relationships very challenging. If you had a falling out with a customer (and we had plenty) you would eventually run out of people locally to call on.

IT services market is almost literally unlimited. 99.9% of businesses have a computer integral to their daily processes. That makes then a potential customer.

Abe, I'm pretty technical and have always been skilled with business development. What kind of skills or certs would I need to pick up in order to align with this type of work?

None, really. I know several IT-type companies that service local businesses. Nobody touts certs in this or that.

If you are going for large corporations as clients, maybe this matters. But the local 5-workstation law firm? They just want &lt;insert problem&gt; fixed. And they likely don't understand or care about certifications.

 

[Abraham]

You don't need certs at all. You need customers. 80% of what we do is tier 1 and tier 2 help desk stuff like password resets and outlook configuration and allocating server memory. My boss spends his time doing the project work I book like active directory consolidation and complex exchange migrations. The tier 1 stuff is not hard but you can't build a business on just that because when something critical comes up, you have to be able to fix it too.

 

[Guster]

Wow.

At my last company, one of the transactions I handled was to sell off our worst business unit, the one that had gone off a cliff, driving our results down so far that we had to delay our IPO. That business? Our commercial landscaping business.

 

[mr roboto]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

 

[krista4]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

You have come up with the best business idea in the thread.

 

[krista4]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

You have come up with the best business idea in the thread.

I don't want the usurious loan!!!

 

[Fennis]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

IN

I have a rock exchange idea that has generated a lot of buzz.

 

[mr roboto]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

You have come up with the best business idea in the thread.

I don't want the usurious loan!!!

1. Buy a pizza oven. 2. Shaped like a cat.

3. Profit.

4. Move to a 3rd world tropical country with all your money.

 

[mr roboto]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

IN

I have a rock exchange idea that has generated a lot of buzz.

I was working on branding a while back. www.getyourrocksoff.com is available.

 

[Fennis]

I've got 10k to invest. First reply to this post gets a business loan at 30% interest.

You have come up with the best business idea in the thread.

I don't want the usurious loan!!!

Mr. Burns: Are you acquainted with our state's stringent usury laws?

Homer: (Unsure) U...sury?

Mr. Burns: Silly me! I must have just made up a word that doesn't exist.

 

[Tiger Fan]

I knew a guy who started a home delivery service for propane for gas grills and rv's and ice fishing heaters etc. He had a web site that people pre-paid for the propane, and he would come out to their homes and switch out and hook up to their grills/rv's etc. He also did grill cleaning. Told me he had more business in the winter delivering gas tanks for ice fishing, heaters etc. then in the summer. Start up was propane tanks, and he had a rack built to fit his truck to haul them. I haven't talked to him in a while since I moved away from him, but I know I hate lugging those gas tanks home for the grill.

I woudl totally pay for that service.

Would have be alot of volume though to own it...what can you make...$10/tank or so. You could do it as a side business I guess.

 

[eoMMan]

Buy some poker books and use the rest as a bank roll. Grind some 2/5 NL and work your way up to 5/10 NL. Avoid drugs and hoors.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Good thread, nice to see the back and forth over the ideas. Abe, I really like Altucher's blog too - has really changed the way I think about some things.

Unrelated to the ideas already present in this thread, but I had a job for a short while recently that was a bit all over the place - they did printing, marketing, embroidery, etc. A lot of the customers that had marketing needs would buy things like pens, mugs, notebooks, etc. with their company logo on the items. We had a membership to a promotional sales organization that gave us access to all sorts of vendors that sold promo items - all we did was find what the customer wanted, send the vendor a PO, and then they would blind ship the items to our customer, and we usually marked this up anywhere from 25-100%, depending on the item. Seemed like basically anyone could get into it very easily, IF you could make the sales - the hard part, obviously. Very low maintenance beyond making the sale itself, though.

This is interesting. Any idea what the membership to the promotional sales organization cost? I would assume small businesses were your target market with this stuff. Were you selling this stuff over the phone with cold calls?

This is who we went through - https://store.asicentral.com/Store/Distributor/Package/8?prodID=&amp;1 - I think we had some sort of extra basic package that was only like $50/month, though. It was basically for the right to be a "distributor" and nothing else - they have higher packages where they give you a basic web "store" that I believe is just a consolidation of all of their suppliers' offerings with your logo or whatever you want on the page.

Yeah, target market was mostly small businesses, although we did some stuff with Verizon's retail stores where they'd get little promo items to have in stock at their stores, pens, keychains, etc. Seems like that would be the ideal scenario if you wanted to do this - have a commercial customer that would order large amounts of somewhat pricey items from you regularly. I believe they mostly cold called new customers and also had ongoing relationships with other customers, but I was on the admin side and only there for about 9 months. Not sure how viable offering this via SEO marketing would be, but they were not doing anything like that - seemed to be all old school sales tactics. The promo stuff was really just a side offering to go along with their printing and marketing they did for customers, I was mainly just surprised at how easy it would be to get into that market - not that I think it'd be easy to be successful, though.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Before everyone jumps all over Abe; he's working with $10k here. While the "landscaping" result might not be mindblowing, his post was pretty good in terms of what to look for.

WRT landcaping, I pay a guy $2k/year to cut, edge and bag my grass (approximately .25 acres in a residential area of a city). I'm one contract that covers 20% of the capital investment. I've watched this guy work...he's got one other guy he works with (I'm sure he pays him $10/hr) and they knock it out in less than an hour. The owner takes home $40/hr give or take. Not too bad if you can build up some clientele.

Abe referenced commercial landscaping, though many of the same issues would apply to residential.

FWIW - I know two guys that started residential landscaping businesses (mowing lawns) because they couldn't finish college. Both are quite successful (guessing 300k-400k+ net per year). But they worked their asses off for years and built up a reliable client base. Neither one does any of the physical labor any more, but it took a long time to get to this point.

In short, like most things it can be done, but it takes a lot of time and work to get it going.

A large client of our firm is a self-made man who started out mowing people's lawns. He scaled it up to commercial landscaping and ended up investing well in real estate. He still runs the landscaping business and has his hand in a few other projects. He's worth well into 8 figures now.

Of course, he started his businesses like 25 years ago, but still. Hard work plus a little luck....goes a long way.

 

[jwb]

Before everyone jumps all over Abe; he's working with $10k here. While the "landscaping" result might not be mindblowing, his post was pretty good in terms of what to look for.

WRT landcaping, I pay a guy $2k/year to cut, edge and bag my grass (approximately .25 acres in a residential area of a city). I'm one contract that covers 20% of the capital investment. I've watched this guy work...he's got one other guy he works with (I'm sure he pays him $10/hr) and they knock it out in less than an hour. The owner takes home $40/hr give or take. Not too bad if you can build up some clientele.

Abe referenced commercial landscaping, though many of the same issues would apply to residential.

FWIW - I know two guys that started residential landscaping businesses (mowing lawns) because they couldn't finish college. Both are quite successful (guessing 300k-400k+ net per year). But they worked their asses off for years and built up a reliable client base. Neither one does any of the physical labor any more, but it took a long time to get to this point.

In short, like most things it can be done, but it takes a lot of time and work to get it going.

A large client of our firm is a self-made man who started out mowing people's lawns. He scaled it up to commercial landscaping and ended up investing well in real estate. He still runs the landscaping business and has his hand in a few other projects. He's worth well into 8 figures now.

Of course, he started his businesses like 25 years ago, but still. Hard work plus a little luck....goes a long way.

Yup - he was a lot younger. The thing is, when starting out, the work is far harder than a regular job, it typically pays less, there are no sick days, you work long hours, etc. And this can go on for years with nothing but small growth. It's actually a pretty bad deal. And it gets harder as you get older and have a house and kids and need x to make your monthly nut.

I find it's a mindset more than anything - entrepreneurs are just wired that way. We like working for ourselves, and wouldn't have it any other way. This isn't to say someone can't jump into the pool in their 30's or 40's, but I would say the deck is stacked way against that person. Because they're probably going into it for the wrong reasons (money, thinking about the business on autopilot from day one, etc).

 

[datonn]

Yup - he was a lot younger. The thing is, when starting out, the work is far harder than a regular job, it typically pays less, there are no sick days, you work long hours, etc. And this can go on for years with nothing but small growth. It's actually a pretty bad deal. And it gets harder as you get older and have a house and kids and need x to make your monthly nut.

I find it's a mindset more than anything - entrepreneurs are just wired that way. We like working for ourselves, and wouldn't have it any other way. This isn't to say someone can't jump into the pool in their 30's or 40's, but I would say the deck is stacked way against that person. Because they're probably going into it for the wrong reasons (money, thinking about the business on autopilot from day one, etc).

^ True dat. I haven't had an employer for about 14 years now...but I work ungodly hours. But being able to work for myself? When I want to work? Where I want to work? Wearing what I want to wear to work? I don't think I could go back to wearing dress clothes, fighting traffic, and reporting to the office at ~7:30-8:00am, ever again.

But my goodness do you have to work for it. Family get-togethers (apart from Thanksgiving and Christmas)? Sorry...we won't be able to eat next month if I don't take a rain check and keep working. Friends want to get together to __________? Sorry...IM me or give me a call and I'll talk while I'm doing this month's financials. The only, ONLY exception tends to be making sure that time with kids isn't sacrificed. As not being there for your children at a younger age will almost certainly come back to bite you and them in their teens and 20s. Which can dig them a deep hole they'll spend the rest of their lives trying to dig out of, which their kids might be forced to dig out of too. Break that cycle before it ever begins!

Finally in 2013, after 13 long, hard years, I had time (and money) to take a few extended trips. Push work a bit down the priority list. But if the typical person worked ~22,000 hours from 2000-2010, I worked about 35,000+ hours over that same period, excluding work as a parent and being Mr. Fixit around the house. And it took about 8-9 years before we made what I would consider to be "good" money. I don't think most people have the spine/stomach for it...and if you took me back to 14 years ago and told me what it would take to get to where we are now? I'm not sure I would have done it either. But when you're it...no paycheck every 2-4 weeks, no sick/vacation days, no paternity/maternity leave, etc., you either get it done or you don't. And if you're not the kind of person who will get it done? Steer FAR, FAR clear of being an entrepreneur.

 

[The Duff Man]

Good info in this thread. How important is it to have an IT background for managed services? My expertise is delivering exceptional sales and customer service results, and more recently training people how to achieve this for themselves. Thinking of doing my own thing, I am not going to become a millionaire working for my current company.

My wife is an award winning marketing consultant, has her own successful company already but only for marketing to date. Her best friend manages HR for a private school and would no doubt like some extra work. So we have some valuable services combined and $100k startup funds, but no IT guy :(

Might have to find one...

 

[Dudley Do-Right]

Good thread, nice to see the back and forth over the ideas. Abe, I really like Altucher's blog too - has really changed the way I think about some things.

Unrelated to the ideas already present in this thread, but I had a job for a short while recently that was a bit all over the place - they did printing, marketing, embroidery, etc. A lot of the customers that had marketing needs would buy things like pens, mugs, notebooks, etc. with their company logo on the items. We had a membership to a promotional sales organization that gave us access to all sorts of vendors that sold promo items - all we did was find what the customer wanted, send the vendor a PO, and then they would blind ship the items to our customer, and we usually marked this up anywhere from 25-100%, depending on the item. Seemed like basically anyone could get into it very easily, IF you could make the sales - the hard part, obviously. Very low maintenance beyond making the sale itself, though.

This is interesting. Any idea what the membership to the promotional sales organization cost? I would assume small businesses were your target market with this stuff. Were you selling this stuff over the phone with cold calls?

This is who we went through - https://store.asicentral.com/Store/Distributor/Package/8?prodID=&amp;1 - I think we had some sort of extra basic package that was only like $50/month, though. It was basically for the right to be a "distributor" and nothing else - they have higher packages where they give you a basic web "store" that I believe is just a consolidation of all of their suppliers' offerings with your logo or whatever you want on the page.

Yeah, target market was mostly small businesses, although we did some stuff with Verizon's retail stores where they'd get little promo items to have in stock at their stores, pens, keychains, etc. Seems like that would be the ideal scenario if you wanted to do this - have a commercial customer that would order large amounts of somewhat pricey items from you regularly. I believe they mostly cold called new customers and also had ongoing relationships with other customers, but I was on the admin side and only there for about 9 months. Not sure how viable offering this via SEO marketing would be, but they were not doing anything like that - seemed to be all old school sales tactics. The promo stuff was really just a side offering to go along with their printing and marketing they did for customers, I was mainly just surprised at how easy it would be to get into that market - not that I think it'd be easy to be successful, though.

Thank you. This is excellent information.

 

[Dudley Do-Right]

Yup - he was a lot younger. The thing is, when starting out, the work is far harder than a regular job, it typically pays less, there are no sick days, you work long hours, etc. And this can go on for years with nothing but small growth. It's actually a pretty bad deal. And it gets harder as you get older and have a house and kids and need x to make your monthly nut.

I find it's a mindset more than anything - entrepreneurs are just wired that way. We like working for ourselves, and wouldn't have it any other way. This isn't to say someone can't jump into the pool in their 30's or 40's, but I would say the deck is stacked way against that person. Because they're probably going into it for the wrong reasons (money, thinking about the business on autopilot from day one, etc).

^ True dat. I haven't had an employer for about 14 years now...but I work ungodly hours. But being able to work for myself? When I want to work? Where I want to work? Wearing what I want to wear to work? I don't think I could go back to wearing dress clothes, fighting traffic, and reporting to the office at ~7:30-8:00am, ever again.

But my goodness do you have to work for it. Family get-togethers (apart from Thanksgiving and Christmas)? Sorry...we won't be able to eat next month if I don't take a rain check and keep working. Friends want to get together to __________? Sorry...IM me or give me a call and I'll talk while I'm doing this month's financials. The only, ONLY exception tends to be making sure that time with kids isn't sacrificed. As not being there for your children at a younger age will almost certainly come back to bite you and them in their teens and 20s. Which can dig them a deep hole they'll spend the rest of their lives trying to dig out of, which their kids might be forced to dig out of too. Break that cycle before it ever begins!

Finally in 2013, after 13 long, hard years, I had time (and money) to take a few extended trips. Push work a bit down the priority list. But if the typical person worked ~22,000 hours from 2000-2010, I worked about 35,000+ hours over that same period, excluding work as a parent and being Mr. Fixit around the house. And it took about 8-9 years before we made what I would consider to be "good" money. I don't think most people have the spine/stomach for it...and if you took me back to 14 years ago and told me what it would take to get to where we are now? I'm not sure I would have done it either. But when you're it...no paycheck every 2-4 weeks, no sick/vacation days, no paternity/maternity leave, etc., you either get it done or you don't. And if you're not the kind of person who will get it done? Steer FAR, FAR clear of being an entrepreneur.

If you don't mind my asking, what type of business?

 

[datonn]

Yup - he was a lot younger. The thing is, when starting out, the work is far harder than a regular job, it typically pays less, there are no sick days, you work long hours, etc. And this can go on for years with nothing but small growth. It's actually a pretty bad deal. And it gets harder as you get older and have a house and kids and need x to make your monthly nut.

I find it's a mindset more than anything - entrepreneurs are just wired that way. We like working for ourselves, and wouldn't have it any other way. This isn't to say someone can't jump into the pool in their 30's or 40's, but I would say the deck is stacked way against that person. Because they're probably going into it for the wrong reasons (money, thinking about the business on autopilot from day one, etc).

^ True dat. I haven't had an employer for about 14 years now...but I work ungodly hours. But being able to work for myself? When I want to work? Where I want to work? Wearing what I want to wear to work? I don't think I could go back to wearing dress clothes, fighting traffic, and reporting to the office at ~7:30-8:00am, ever again.

But my goodness do you have to work for it. Family get-togethers (apart from Thanksgiving and Christmas)? Sorry...we won't be able to eat next month if I don't take a rain check and keep working. Friends want to get together to __________? Sorry...IM me or give me a call and I'll talk while I'm doing this month's financials. The only, ONLY exception tends to be making sure that time with kids isn't sacrificed. As not being there for your children at a younger age will almost certainly come back to bite you and them in their teens and 20s. Which can dig them a deep hole they'll spend the rest of their lives trying to dig out of, which their kids might be forced to dig out of too. Break that cycle before it ever begins!

Finally in 2013, after 13 long, hard years, I had time (and money) to take a few extended trips. Push work a bit down the priority list. But if the typical person worked ~22,000 hours from 2000-2010, I worked about 35,000+ hours over that same period, excluding work as a parent and being Mr. Fixit around the house. And it took about 8-9 years before we made what I would consider to be "good" money. I don't think most people have the spine/stomach for it...and if you took me back to 14 years ago and told me what it would take to get to where we are now? I'm not sure I would have done it either. But when you're it...no paycheck every 2-4 weeks, no sick/vacation days, no paternity/maternity leave, etc., you either get it done or you don't. And if you're not the kind of person who will get it done? Steer FAR, FAR clear of being an entrepreneur.

If you don't mind my asking, what type of business?

Map illustration and interactive mapping.

One of my favorite quotes from our industry came from one of the very-few of us who has made much more than a middle class income. A grad student in cartography asked him at a conference: "What would your advice be to someone like me, who wants to be a full-time cartographer after I graduate?" His answer? "Marry rich."

I feel bad for a lot of those students, thinking they are going to take the world by storm without so much as a single class in marketing, management, finance, or economics. They might latch on to an existing company and carve-out a decent living for themselves. But so many of them have aspirations of running their own shops. And have absolutely no idea of how to do it. Because most/all of the faculty who were teaching them everything they know for the past 6-7 years have no idea how to do it either. Also see: careers in art/graphic design.