If you were starting an expansion team (1 Viewer)

[radiohead417]

who would your's be. Take age into consideration as well as positionI think I'd go with Peppers!!!!!!!!How bout you?

I definitely would not go with Peppers. Let's not forget he is one bad drug test from a one-year suspension. I think just because of the longevity of the guys at the position, you'd have to go with a guy like Peyton Manning. He's durable, never has missed a game. RB's are fine, but they are gone by age 30. Same with big linemen at times. I'd go with a LT, but there isn't a quality young one that I love like the way Ogden, Boselli and Walter Jones were when they were in their mid-20s.My list:1. Peyton Manning2. Carson Palmer3. Champ Bailey4. Larry Fitzgerald5. Reggie Bush

 

[Bri]

Pro Bowl Rookie LT Marcus Mcneil

Personally, I'd take Brady slightly over Peppers, but would consider Urlacher, McNeil, LT, Reggie Bush, Shawne Merriman, and maybe Steve Smith.

If I were picking a left tackle, my top two choices would be Marcus McNeill and Jammal Brown.

Marcus McNeill.

Now there's a name I didn't expect to see.

Really? Even after it was mention three times before in this thread?

heh

 

[stevegamer]

I like the Polian pick - a good GM is very important. If you get a good enough GM, you get the players because he does a good job. And Polian is an elite executive.

If it was a player, I'd want a franchise blind-side tackle. They are very hard to find, and unlike other positions, it's really hard to do anything significant with scheme to help them significantly that doesn't hurt your protection more elsewhere than it helps them.

McNeill is a good choice for the franchise tackle - ideally I'd see that level of play from him for two years, not just one, but he's a definite candidate for the next great tackle.

 

[Despyzer]

When Polian was promoted to general manager in Buffalo in 1985, the Bills were suffering from back to back 2-14 seasons. He was instrumental in putting together a team that went on to 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.

Polian did no better than 4-12 until John Butler took over as the director of player personnel. Even NFL.com considers Butler the "architect" of those Bills teams.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

another McNiel

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Scott Pioli.

And I hate the Patriots, but if I'm starting a franchise, I give this guy whatever he wants to come figure it out for me.

 

[renesauz]

I choose a top LT as I think that is the most important position on the field. Plus the life line of those guys seems to last longer than most positions. ie(pace, ogden, and w. jones)

If I were picking a left tackle, my top two choices would be Marcus McNeill and Jammal Brown.I don't think any left tackle in the league played better than McNeill last season. And while Ogden and Pace (when healthy) were still better than Brown last year, it wasn't by much, and they are 6-7 years older. I think Brown played better than Walter Jones last year.Pace, Ogden, and Jones are still three of the top five left tackles in the league, but I doubt they'll remain there for more than another couple years.

You can get away with an average QB with a good line, and a great line will turn an average QB into a HOFer. Start with the line, then take a solid, promising young QB a little later, and a lot cheaper. Rivers in the 8-9th round would work very nicely. (Assuming 32 team, ALL players draft.)I like the McNeil pick.

 

[Two Deep]

Rich McKay

 

[Pat Patriot]

Manning for sure....If the NFL were redrafted today 100% of the teams.(.Owners ,GMS ,Coaches)....would Take Manning with the #1 PICK... all things concidered,hes that much better than everyone.

That is a pretty bold statement. I'd say several teams would go with Tomlinson, a couple may go with a defensive powerhouse and a couple would go with Tom Brady.You are aware Matt Millen is still running a team and the Oakland Raiders are in the NFL right?

Yeah its Bold ,But its true,..NOBODY Has the entire Package that Manning has...Sure there may be sombody that equals his Physical attributes...But NONE Are As Smart, or have the work eithic...HE is a coach on the field....LT is Great, Peppers Is Great.but...NOT ONE TEAM WOULD PASS ON MANNING Not Even the TEXANS....Not even the PATS

So you are really sure that Bill Belichick is picking Manning over Brady in a draft? Ok, pal. Brady beats Manning on both of the bolded counts. Brady is a workout warrior and became a leader of the team right away because his teammates respected how hard he had worked.

Yeah I am Sure...Belichick may be Evil, but hes not stupid...You dont see brady on the field 3hours before the game with his Wrs..making 100s of throws...its Called preperation...and If he Had the CHOICE, belichick takes Manning over Brady

OUT OF YOUR MIND. You are wrong. Manning is flashier and I have no doubt that most other teams in the league would take Manning, but thats not what the Patriots are about and not what Belichick is looking for.

 

[SSOG]

Manning for sure....If the NFL were redrafted today 100% of the teams.(.Owners ,GMS ,Coaches)....would Take Manning with the #1 PICK... all things concidered,hes that much better than everyone.

That is a pretty bold statement. I'd say several teams would go with Tomlinson, a couple may go with a defensive powerhouse and a couple would go with Tom Brady.

Brady, maybe, but Tomlinson, no way. Tomlinson is the highest paid RB in the league, and Manning is the highest paid QB. Quick question- who makes more? Manning, and it's not even close.Manning *MAKES* more because the GM has decided that he's WORTH more. In fact, lots of QBs make more money than Tomlinson. RBs are great and all, but look at Edgerrin James to see just how important they really are in the grand scheme of things. They're pretty fungible, and have a short shelf life, to boot.I agree that Manning would be the consensus no-brainer pick (with Champ Bailey being the only other player even considered, and the only non-QB to go in the top 5). Cornerback and QB are the two highest-paid (and therefore most important) positions, and both Manning/Bailey have proven that they are the best in the business at what they do (Brady might argue, but I'd take Manning over him in a heartbeat, and no other CB can even lay half the claim to the title of "best in the league" that Bailey can).The other big "power positions", the positions that make the most money, are Left Tackle, Defensive End, and Defensive Tackle. It's nice to say that you'd take a stud Left Tackle, but who? Jones/Ogden/Pace are clearly all past their prime, on the downslope of their careers. Marcus McNeill looks like the real deal, but there's only one year's worth of data on him, so he's an incredibly risky pick (to risky to chance with the #1 overall). Other than them, who is even worth considering (I'd say Lepsis, but he's coming off an injury and on the downslope of his career, too). At Defensive Tackle, once again there's a dearth of ELITE and YOUNG players. There are no "Warren Sapp in his prime" guys hanging around there just begging to be grabbed. Same deal at DE- Peppers is a physical freak of nature, but as a football player he's wildly inconsistant. Freeney's too one-dimensional, Taylor and Strahan are too old. None are worth the #1 overall. There's no WR who has clearly set himself above his peers, either (Steve Smith? Torry Holt? Chad Johnson?). Also, until someone gets an $80 million contract, you have to eliminate LBs/RBs/Safeties/TEs/Fullbacks/Guards/Centers/Kickers/Punters/Longsnappers/Gunners etc- if they were that valuable, they'd be paid commensurately. No, in the end, the #1 overall just has to be Bailey or a QB (most likely Manning).Another benefit to getting Manning is that he'll make building the rest of your team easier. Every free agent WR is going to want to come and play with Manning.

If you have a decent pass rush or a tricky defensive scheme, you can get away with average CBs. The QB position is the most important position on the field, requires the most decision making, will cost you the most under the salary cap and is usually a position where the older you get the better you become, so the longevity is worth the selection. Champ Bailey is going to be 29 before the season starts. What's he got 4-5 more years at the top of his game before he fades. Tom Brady is only 28 he's probably got twice as many years left.

CBs actually tend to have pretty long lifespans, and as was already mentioned, you're probably only going to be signing your guy to a 6-7 year deal in the first place.As for being able to get away with average CBs... again, I point you to the salary numbers. No position makes more than the top 5 CBs, which means that the GMs think that no position makes a bigger impact on their team than a top-5 CB. I mean, you could get away with average QBs, too (Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer both won SBs, remember, and teams have made the championship game with Mike Vick, Jake Plummer, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, and Ben Roethlisberger all in the last couple of years).Now, to say something that will almost certainly start an arguement... if I was drafting ANYONE (instead of just a player), I'd take... Mike Shanahan.Before anyone laughs or calls me a homer, keep in mind this- he's more likely to stick around than any of the other elite coaches with a long track record and multiple SB appearances (Cowher just retired, Belichick is rumored to be retiring after this season, and Parcells is Parcells, while Shanahan has two years left on his deal and is likely to have an extension within the next couple of weeks), AND if you draft Shanahan, you aren't just getting a great coach, you're also getting a pretty darn good GM at the same time (who by all accounts has come out ahead in every single trade he's made since he shipped Clinton Portis, and who despite his detracters has managed to consistantly field a pretty darn talented team). A top-5 coach AND a top-10 GM who is in it for the long-haul? It's a slam dunk.

 

[brewer]

A number of people in the FFA just completed a draft based on building a franchise. I took Tom Brady at pick #4 and would have considered Manning if he had been available. I don't see how you can go any other direction than a franchise caliber QB at the top spot, but Peppers actually went #1.

The results are here if anyone is interested:

FFA Build a Franchise Draft

 

[SSOG]

A number of people in the FFA just completed a draft based on building a franchise. I took Tom Brady at pick #4 and would have considered Manning if he had been available. I don't see how you can go any other direction than a franchise caliber QB at the top spot, but Peppers actually went #1.

The results are here if anyone is interested:

FFA Build a Franchise Draft

A cute excercise, but I don't think it's at all realistic. Brian Urlacher #2 overall, ahead of Manning AND Brady? Champ Bailey #10 overall, just 4 slots ahead of DeAngelo Hall? Vick at 16? D'Brickshaw Ferguson at 6 slots ahead of Marcus McNeill? Al Wilson at the top of the 3rd when the Broncos can't even get a rookie 3rd round draft pick for him?

 

[brewer]

A cute excercise, but I don't think it's at all realistic. Brian Urlacher #2 overall, ahead of Manning AND Brady? Champ Bailey #10 overall, just 4 slots ahead of DeAngelo Hall? Vick at 16? D'Brickshaw Ferguson at 6 slots ahead of Marcus McNeill? Al Wilson at the top of the 3rd when the Broncos can't even get a rookie 3rd round draft pick for him?

Of course it's not realistic, it is pure conjecture. Some people took the exercise more seriously than others and there were definitely some terrible picks along the way. The guy who took Vick bailed on the thing shortly afterward.

 

[johntorn]

Marshall Faulk- 1996

 

[Chase Stuart]

I don't buy the LT arguments much. Sure, having an incredible offensive line might be more important than having an incredible quarterback, but having an incredible left tackle isn't the same thing as having an incredible offensive line. That's a bit disconnect that people seem to gloss over.

Anthony Munoz' Bengals had a 4-11 season and a 3-13 season when he made the Pro Bowl. John Hannah's Patriots had a 3-11 and 2-14 season.

Staubach's teams never had a losing record. The only two years the Colts under Manning never won ten games were Manning's bad years (when he didn't make the Pro Bowl). The 49ers had sixteen straight seasons with 10 wins under Montana and Young. The Dolphins had only one losing season under Marino, and it's when Miami had one of the worst running games and defenses in the league, but still won six games.

Jim Otto was a HOF lineman, but the Raiders still went 2-23 during two years he made the Pro Bowl. The Ravens have had four losing season with Ogden. The Rams have had four winning years in the decade Pace has been on the team.

Have a great offensive line, and you're bound for the playoffs. Have a great QB, and you've got a great chance to make it to the playoffs. Have a great offensive lineman, and you're not guaranteed of much.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Anthony Munoz' Bengals had a 4-11 season and a 3-13 season when he made the Pro Bowl. John Hannah's Patriots had a 3-11 and 2-14 season.

True, but it's not like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Brett Favre never played on 4-win teams.I agree that a great LT doesn't automatically make for an effective OL -- but it is a huge help. If you have a left tackle who can handle the opposing defense's best rusher one on one without any help, it frees the rest of the line up (and the fullback) to do certain combination blocks that they'd otherwise be unable to do. If your LT needs constant help, however, the offense will generally have to keep extra guys in to block, which means fewer guys in the pattern, which means more double coverage on the primary and secondary receivers.So it's not just that a great LT will give up fewer sacks than an average LT -- although that helps -- but the real advantage is that it allows the whole offense to function quite differently by spreading things out and getting more guys in the pattern, which is much harder to defend.Having good cornerbacks is important for a similar reason. It's nice to not get burned deep all the time, but there's more to it than that. If you have two corners who can play man coverage without a lot of help, it allows the defense to run more blitzes and to play the safeties closer to the line for run support, etc. It allows the entire defensive scheme to change, and makes a big difference against the run as well -- not just in not getting burned deep.Everything that goes on on the football field is kind of interrelated. But overall I think the level of play from the QB, CBs ,and LT have the biggest effect on the team as a whole.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Scott Pioli.And I hate the Patriots, but if I'm starting a franchise, I give this guy whatever he wants to come figure it out for me.

concur

 

[SSOG]

Everything that goes on on the football field is kind of interrelated. But overall I think the level of play from the QB, CBs ,and LT have the biggest effect on the team as a whole.

Don't forget the DE. I don't think there's any position on the entire field that can dominate a game like an all-world DE- and that includes Quarterback.Even if all 10 other players on defense do nothing right, if the DE makes a great play, the defense wins. The offense could run everything to perfection, and the defense could trip all over itself, but if the DE beats his man, he has a chance to single-handedly blow up a play. The only way to stop him is to double team him, which turns the rest of the game into a 9-on-10 matchup (or 8-on-10 if you don't count the QB, since he's rarely an active part of the play except as an occasional half-hearted blocker on reverses). And, against the truly elite DEs, not even a double-team is enough to guarantee your success.If there were a truly dominant young DE (like Reggie White, Bruce Smith, etc) in the league right now, I'd make him the #1 overall pick in a heartbeat. As it stands, all of the DEs are either flawed (Julius Peppers), one-dimensional (Dwight Freeney), or too old to base a team around (Jason Taylor, Michael Strahan). The closest thing in the league at the moment would probably be Richard Seymour, but I'd prefer it if he had a bit more in the way of passrushing skills. Some people might think it an odd stance, but if Strahan were 6 years younger, I would take him #1 overall in a heartbeat. He's an elite passrusher AND an elite runstopper, the best two-way DE since Bruce Smith.I suppose an OLB in the 3-4 is also the sort of guy that can single-handedly dominate games (think: Shawn Merriman, or more classically, Lawrence Taylor)... but I just feel like the 3-4, schematically speaking, has so many options to create pressure that a dominant passrusher isn't as vital. I'd take LT #1 overall, and I suppose I'd consider Merriman if not for the steroids thing, but 3-4 OLBs are sort of like the great DTs (Warren Sapp)- really, really good... but not quite on the level of the 4-3 DE.

 

[hickbones]

I'd take Boselli

 

[Banger]

Surprised no Merriman votes. Would have been defensive MVP, led the league in sacks, young, arguably the best young defensive player in the league. Maybe it's the steroid thing.

 

[SSOG]

Surprised no Merriman votes. Would have been defensive MVP, led the league in sacks, young, arguably the best young defensive player in the league. Maybe it's the steroid thing.

It's definitely the steroid thing, at least for me. He's tested positive once, and if he tests positive again he's out of there. That's a big risk to assume. Also, even if he doesn't test positive again, if he was relying on steroids for his level of performance, and he goes clean, it's safe to assume his performance will suffer.Besides, as I said, a good passrushing 3-4 OLB is great, but a good passrushing 4-3 DE is better.

 

[Despyzer]

Surprised no Merriman votes.

Especially considering there have been some nods for Julius Peppers. Seems like a bit of a double standard, but maybe it's because Merriman's incident is fresher on the minds.

 

[Jedimaster21]

I may have to take it even further and say that the most important person in a franchise is the owner. Everything starts with the owner, and depending on philosophy and goals, a franchise can either suffer for decades or be a perennial contender. As an Eagle's fan, I would have to say Jeffrey Lurie has made one good decision after another since taking over.

Although this would be my first thought, I think an owner/coach/GM is more valuable than any one specific player. A player's career can end at any moment, and it is rare that they will maintain their level of play for even a decade. A decision-maker like Lurie or Polian can be responsible for keeping a franchise up for a very long time.

If I had to pick a player, it would probably be Carson Palmer over Manning and Brady. Palmer should be just as good, is a lot younger, and QB is clearly the most important position on an NFL team.

 

[Jedimaster21]

You said "If you were starting an expansion team, and could start your franchise with 1 guy." You didn't say player.

Maybe Belichick, but...

I'll go with Bill Polian. When Polian was promoted to general manager in Buffalo in 1985, the Bills were suffering from back to back 2-14 seasons. He was instrumental in putting together a team that went on to 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.

He then took over as GM of the expansion Panthers, building a team that went to the NFC Championship game in only its second year of existence.

When Polian took over as President and GM of the Colts, they were 3-13 the year before. In his 2nd year with the team, they went 13-3. They've been solid ever since, and of course won the Super Bowl last year.

I want Polian.

I love the direction you chose to go in here...

 

[switz]

When Polian was promoted to general manager in Buffalo in 1985, the Bills were suffering from back to back 2-14 seasons. He was instrumental in putting together a team that went on to 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.

Polian did no better than 4-12 until John Butler took over as the director of player personnel. Even NFL.com considers Butler the "architect" of those Bills teams.

LOL! Polian then went on to build the Panthers from expansion team to SB contender in short order, and then the Colts into SB winners. Don't get me wrong, Butler, and AJ Smith had huge impacts on the Bills, but Polian still deserves credit.And bear in mind that the article you link to on NFL.com is basically a eulogy, in which Butler gets generous praise...

 

[freeannyong]

Anybody posting anything but Palmer, Brady, or Manning is insane. QB is far and away the most valuable position on a football team. Plain and simple. Tomlinson would probably not even go in the top 15 as he probably only has 3-5 years left, where Vince Young, Leinart, Cutler have 15 years. I wouldn't say all of those go ahead of LT2, but many QB's, CB's and left tackles would go before LT2.

 

[freeannyong]

Marshall Faulk- 1996

LOLOLOL. You are delusional.

 

[kevin iverson]

peyton manning

 

[freeannyong]

My list:

1. Peyton Manning

2. Carson Palmer

3. Champ Bailey

4. Tom Brady

5. Drew Brees

The first running back MIGHT be taken at 15 or so. I would be willing to bet it is much later than that though. Probably in the range of 25-30. Get them out of your top 5.

 

[kevin iverson]

Anybody posting anything but Palmer, Brady, or Manning is insane. QB is far and away the most valuable position on a football team. Plain and simple. Tomlinson would probably not even go in the top 15 as he probably only has 3-5 years left, where Vince Young, Leinart, Cutler have 15 years. I wouldn't say all of those go ahead of LT2, but many QB's, CB's and left tackles would go before LT2.

 

[Despyzer]

When Polian was promoted to general manager in Buffalo in 1985, the Bills were suffering from back to back 2-14 seasons. He was instrumental in putting together a team that went on to 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.

Polian did no better than 4-12 until John Butler took over as the director of player personnel. Even NFL.com considers Butler the "architect" of those Bills teams.

LOL! Polian then went on to build the Panthers from expansion team to SB contender in short order, and then the Colts into SB winners. Don't get me wrong, Butler, and AJ Smith had huge impacts on the Bills, but Polian still deserves credit.And bear in mind that the article you link to on NFL.com is basically a eulogy, in which Butler gets generous praise...

None of what you said negates anything I posted. And what exactly is "LOL!" funny?

 

[Demons]

Vince Young.

1. Most important position.....check

2. Able to survive the pass rush until we have an OL.....check

3. Longevity.....check

4. Will pull in customers.....check

Kinda looks like the Texans blew it last year.

 

[The Ref]

I think it depends who is on the clock and who the coach is. I bet Bill Belichick would pick the best player available in the D front 7 for the first few rounds, then QB, then D back 4 for a pick or two, then RB/OL, then WR.

The colts brass would probably go QB/WR/OL and then D.

I don't think either way wrong and is all preferance as to whats important.

 

[Apollo]

I think it depends who is on the clock and who the coach is. I bet Bill Belichick would pick the best player available in the D front 7 for the first few rounds, then QB, then D back 4 for a pick or two, then RB/OL, then WR.

I think he'd go Brady.

 

[SSOG]

Vince Young. 1. Most important position.....check2. Able to survive the pass rush until we have an OL.....check3. Longevity.....check4. Will pull in customers.....checkKinda looks like the Texans blew it last year.

Haha, That's a homer pick if ever there was one.Vince Young has established his longevity? How, by appearing in 15 career games? "Well, he played 15 games, we all know he's not injury prone! And while we're at it, Courtney Brown played all 16 games as a rookie, clearly he'll be a rock on our defensive line for years to come!". Young has averaged 6.2 career yards per attempt. He has an upside-down TD:INT ratio. He has a 51.5% career completion percentage. Please stop me when I get to whatever it is that qualifies Vince Young to be the #1 overall draft pick.Oh, wait, I forgot... he has 8 career wins! STUD!!!Vince Young plays a style of football that is very likely to get him permanently injured. He will pull in customers, absolutely, but he has yet to do ANYTHING to prove that he's not just a slower Michael Vick. In fact, speaking of Vick, he has a better career YPA, a better TD:INT ratio, a higher career YPC, and, oh yeah, a better career Winning%. In his first full season as a starter, he completed a higher percentage of his passes for more yards per attempt, more yards per game, a 2:1 TD:Int ratio, and he also rushed more times for more yards and won more games.Vince Young might one day be a stud, but today he's just Michael Vick with hope for more.

 

[Chewyguru]

I'm going to say LT with Peyton a close second.

As far as getting buts in seats LT will do that.

 

[Byron_nyc]

I like the Marcus McNeil (and Scott Pioli) picks.

Some other names not mentioned here-to-fore:

Frank Gore

Ben Roethlisberger

Phillip Rivers

 

[switz]

When Polian was promoted to general manager in Buffalo in 1985, the Bills were suffering from back to back 2-14 seasons. He was instrumental in putting together a team that went on to 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.

Polian did no better than 4-12 until John Butler took over as the director of player personnel. Even NFL.com considers Butler the "architect" of those Bills teams.

LOL! Polian then went on to build the Panthers from expansion team to SB contender in short order, and then the Colts into SB winners. Don't get me wrong, Butler, and AJ Smith had huge impacts on the Bills, but Polian still deserves credit.And bear in mind that the article you link to on NFL.com is basically a eulogy, in which Butler gets generous praise...

None of what you said negates anything I posted. And what exactly is "LOL!" funny?

What's funny is calling Butler the architect of the 90s Bills. And yet, what I wrote negates your point completely. Polian hired Butler, Polian didn't do better than 4-12 because he was still getting the right personnel, which Butler had nothing to do with. Regardless, I respect Butler a TON, but he got way way way too much credit for the Bills, because they quickly declined after Polian left, and Butler moved up.

 

[Steel Mike Tomczak]

Player : LT ...maybe Peyton

Coach: Mike Tomlin

 

[kerpow]

I wouldn't take a RB but I was forced to it would be Gore or S. Jackson as neither are 24 yrs old yet. Why take LT when he'll give 2-3 years max?

If it was a QB I'd take Palmer as he's got all the leadership and experience but at 28 I'm getting 7-8 years from him.

 

[DanFouts]

In this order....

1. LT

2. Merriman

3. McNeil

4. Gates

6. Rivers

5. Turner

Ah, hell....just draft the Bolts baby.....

 

[corpcow]

Your right we are not talking FFB..My Statement was "if the entire NFL was redrafted not one team would Pass on Manning" all teams would be starting from square one....yeah there are Many great players on both sides of the ball....but none would pass on mannning..

Two things that would make this post better: 1) proper grammar and 2) an actual argument. Perhaps a more proper statement would be that you think no team *should* pass on Manning.Counterpoint: As others pointed out, there are other factors that are just as important to determining success. Surround a mediocre QB with great talent (especially on the offensive line) and he'll be good to great. Put Peyton behind Houston's line, and, well, without that time he's not Peyton. Have you *looked* at Carr's sack line lately?

This isn't like Madden 07 where all the Hall of Famers are unlocked as 23 yr old rookies with 99 ratings. How many more years does Peyton have left compared to a younger QB like Palmer or Rivers? Even if you think they can never be in the same tier as Peyton

And much like in fantasy football, it comes down to value. Some people will draft Manning in the first round, but others will pass on him because they want to build their team around different elements. It all depends on the coaching staff and the elements they most value. A guy like Herm (F YOU HERM, signed Jets fan) who is just oging to run the ball 450 times doesn't need Manning - he needs a workhorse back and a good line and a solid defense.

Manning would no doubt upgrade any team (certainly an upgrade on, say, Rex Grossman), but the fact is different teams have different identities and are build around different foundations.

What I'd probably do is trade down, get someone's 1.10 and 2.10 and draft a younger QB/RB and a stud young LT like McNeil or Ferguson. But that's just me.

Ok, rant over.

 

[corpcow]

Haha, That's a homer pick if ever there was one.

Vince Young has established his longevity? How, by appearing in 15 career games? "Well, he played 15 games, we all know he's not injury prone! And while we're at it, Courtney Brown played all 16 games as a rookie, clearly he'll be a rock on our defensive line for years to come!".

Young has averaged 6.2 career yards per attempt. He has an upside-down TD:INT ratio. He has a 51.5% career completion percentage. Please stop me when I get to whatever it is that qualifies Vince Young to be the #1 overall draft pick.

Oh, wait, I forgot... he has 8 career wins! STUD!!!

Vince Young plays a style of football that is very likely to get him permanently injured. He will pull in customers, absolutely, but he has yet to do ANYTHING to prove that he's not just a slower Michael Vick. In fact, speaking of Vick, he has a better career YPA, a better TD:INT ratio, a higher career YPC, and, oh yeah, a better career Winning%. In his first full season as a starter, he completed a higher percentage of his passes for more yards per attempt, more yards per game, a 2:1 TD:Int ratio, and he also rushed more times for more yards and won more games.

Vince Young might one day be a stud, but today he's just Michael Vick with hope for more.

I don't want to go off too much on a VY vs. Vick tangent, but that's not a fair comparison. VY should not be compared to Vick simply because both are a threat with their feet. Young is a pass-first QB and resorts to his legs when nothing else is there, whereas Vick rarely makes a second read let alone a third read. (He ws a little better this year, but still relies on his legs more than his arm). Young is 6'5" 235 and Vick is 6'0-1" 215.Other factors to consider:

Vick had arguably more talent during his career in ATL vs. what Vince had last year. 8 wins with the Titans, especially after their 0-fer start, should not be discounted.
Rookie years: Vick - 8 games, 44% comp, 2 TD, 3 INTs, 785 yds. Vince - 15 games, 12 TDs, 13 TDs, 51% comp rate. (Multiply that out, Vick would have had 3.75 TDs and 5.625 TDs over 15 games).So I agree - I'm not preparing Vince's bust in Canton yet, but I do think a more apt comparison is something in between a guy like McNabb/Culpepper and Vick than just Vick.

 

[SSOG]

I don't want to go off too much on a VY vs. Vick tangent, but that's not a fair comparison. VY should not be compared to Vick simply because both are a threat with their feet. Young is a pass-first QB and resorts to his legs when nothing else is there, whereas Vick rarely makes a second read let alone a third read. (He ws a little better this year, but still relies on his legs more than his arm). Young is 6'5" 235 and Vick is 6'0-1" 215.

Vince Young is a pass-first QB who has yet to prove that he can even pass as well as Michael Vick.Don't get me wrong- I think, after all is said and done, Young will be considered a *MUCH* better QB than Mike Vick. I'm just saying that, right now, today, if we were drafting QBs, Vince Young wouldn't be one of the top 5 taken simply because he has yet to DEMONSTRATE that he'll even be better than Vick.It's ludicrous to suggest that someone would be the #1 overall pick when they wouldn't even be in the top 5 at their own position.

 

[erymer]

Yeah its Bold ,But its true,..NOBODY Has the entire Package that Manning has...Sure there may be sombody that equals his Physical attributes...But NONE Are As Smart, or have the work eithic...HE is a coach on the field....LT is Great, Peppers Is Great.but...NOT ONE TEAM WOULD PASS ON MANNING Not Even the TEAXANS

Even with the heavy use of capital letters I simply do not agree with you. A quarterback's success is defined by a combination of talent, work ethic, a running game, an offensive line and wide receivers.

NOBODY Has the entire Package that Manning has...Sure there may be sombody that equals his Physical attributes...But NONE Are As Smart, or have the work eithic...HE is a coach on the field

Unlike FFL, the NFL also has a defensive side that is important as well outside of "Team D". YOu just defined the role of one player on the defensive side of the ball of every team. Ray Lewis would probably disagree with you, as would many defensive players. Just because certain roles aren't "Coaches on the field' doesn't mean they don't have the skill, attributes, intelligence, ability to do it. If you feel a QB is the #1 key to success, then Manning, Brady, Palmer, Rivers even all have to be considered. If you were starting a team would Palmer or Rivers have 3-4 more years ahead of them worth the very slight drop off? Would Tomlinson for the next 3-4 years allow another QB to have less pressure and succeed? David Carr really could have used an LT in Houston...

very good arguements made for alot of different players. for me it's between three....P. Manning, Brady and Ray Lewis. I give Lewis the edge simply because of what he does for the team. He raises the level of the entire D and gives his team a chance to win when they have no offense. Remember how many games they won a few years ago without an offensive TD. Brady would be a close second. Not to take anything from Manning, because he is great, but Brady made a good playoff run last year with no quality WR's to speak of. It would be hard to pass up on Manning though.

 

[SSOG]

very good arguements made for alot of different players. for me it's between three....P. Manning, Brady and Ray Lewis. I give Lewis the edge simply because of what he does for the team. He raises the level of the entire D and gives his team a chance to win when they have no offense. Remember how many games they won a few years ago without an offensive TD. Brady would be a close second. Not to take anything from Manning, because he is great, but Brady made a good playoff run last year with no quality WR's to speak of. It would be hard to pass up on Manning though.

Ray Lewis would have been a great choice 8 years ago, but today? Now he's old, loud, and terribly overrated. Remember that Monday Night game against Kansas City where he was mic'd up, and he kept whining about how KC was double-teaming him, and the announcers wanted to show just how great the amazing Ray Lewis was so they decided to show the plays where he was getting double teamed, only there *WERE* no plays where he was getting double teamed? Kansas City didn't even bother trying to double team him, because they knew they could neutralize him all game long using just a single guard, or occasionally even just a TE, and rather than admit that he's washed up Ray Lewis just cried all day long about the phantom double-teams.Ray Lewis was AT BEST the 5th-best defensive player on his team last year, behind Reed, Suggs, Thomas, and McAllister. An arguement could be made that he was even worse. And all 4 of those players are younger than Lewis, and cheaper to boot.

 

[Garts]

very good arguements made for alot of different players. for me it's between three....P. Manning, Brady and Ray Lewis. I give Lewis the edge simply because of what he does for the team. He raises the level of the entire D and gives his team a chance to win when they have no offense. Remember how many games they won a few years ago without an offensive TD. Brady would be a close second. Not to take anything from Manning, because he is great, but Brady made a good playoff run last year with no quality WR's to speak of. It would be hard to pass up on Manning though.

Ray Lewis would have been a great choice 8 years ago, but today? Now he's old, loud, and terribly overrated. Remember that Monday Night game against Kansas City where he was mic'd up, and he kept whining about how KC was double-teaming him, and the announcers wanted to show just how great the amazing Ray Lewis was so they decided to show the plays where he was getting double teamed, only there *WERE* no plays where he was getting double teamed? Kansas City didn't even bother trying to double team him, because they knew they could neutralize him all game long using just a single guard, or occasionally even just a TE, and rather than admit that he's washed up Ray Lewis just cried all day long about the phantom double-teams.Ray Lewis was AT BEST the 5th-best defensive player on his team last year, behind Reed, Suggs, Thomas, and McAllister. An arguement could be made that he was even worse. And all 4 of those players are younger than Lewis, and cheaper to boot.

He surely wasn't better then Bart Scott.

 

[SSOG]

very good arguements made for alot of different players. for me it's between three....P. Manning, Brady and Ray Lewis. I give Lewis the edge simply because of what he does for the team. He raises the level of the entire D and gives his team a chance to win when they have no offense. Remember how many games they won a few years ago without an offensive TD. Brady would be a close second. Not to take anything from Manning, because he is great, but Brady made a good playoff run last year with no quality WR's to speak of. It would be hard to pass up on Manning though.

Ray Lewis would have been a great choice 8 years ago, but today? Now he's old, loud, and terribly overrated. Remember that Monday Night game against Kansas City where he was mic'd up, and he kept whining about how KC was double-teaming him, and the announcers wanted to show just how great the amazing Ray Lewis was so they decided to show the plays where he was getting double teamed, only there *WERE* no plays where he was getting double teamed? Kansas City didn't even bother trying to double team him, because they knew they could neutralize him all game long using just a single guard, or occasionally even just a TE, and rather than admit that he's washed up Ray Lewis just cried all day long about the phantom double-teams.Ray Lewis was AT BEST the 5th-best defensive player on his team last year, behind Reed, Suggs, Thomas, and McAllister. An arguement could be made that he was even worse. And all 4 of those players are younger than Lewis, and cheaper to boot.

He surely wasn't better then Bart Scott.

I also entirely overlooked Trevor Pryce (unforgivable for a Bronco Homer like me), who should have gotten DPoY consideration last year because he played at a remarkable level (despite the fact that he's as old as Lewis). Ray Lewis was now just the 7th best defensive player on his own team last year.