If You're The Texans.... (1 Viewer)

[-OZ-]

This just got a lot more interesting.

J

How so? of all the highly touted college QB's to be top picks in the early rounds the past few years, who has really produced at a high level, or been worth the monetary investment by the team that drafted him?

Harrington? Couch? Akili Smith? Losman? Ware? Peete? Ty Detmer? Heath Shuler? Leaf? Rex Grossman? Kordell Stewart? Pennington? on and on...

Even Vinnie Testeverde, the Great Miami U QB, flopped in the NFL. Jason White won a Heisman, nearly won a second, where is he now? Wuerffel..Joe Germaine and Major Applewhite were great college QB's, where are they? Gino Torretta? Charlie Ward plays in the NBA, but was 1 heck of a college QB..

the point of it all, is that you have no idea who is going to successfully make the transition to the NFL..

Terell Davis and Tom Brady were both picked very late ( 5th and 6th rounds?)

and both are someday more than likely going to be hall of famers...Brett Favre was a second rounder..

Didn't Archie Griffin win back-to-back Heisman trophies? did that translate to success in the NFL? nope!

For every Carson Palmer/Peyton Manning, there is a Ryan Leaf/Tim Couch..

basically, selecting a QB early ( rnds 1 or two lets say) means you've got a 50/50 shot that he'll ever pan out..

thats alot of money to throw at a guy like ryan leaf or tim couch or heath shuler..

just because vince young looks good in college, doesn't mean that will translate into nfl stardom..I'd be concerned with that hitch he has in the throwing motion..

and his 9.2 yards/completion avg is low..

has Vick lived up to his top billing? nope.

The comment was that this is more interesting now, not that everyone is a lock for the HOF. Before the game, the consensus was Bush/Leinart at 1-2, without a lot of debate.

Now with Young's performance, he shows us that he can outperform both and might just be the better prospect. But he might also be Ryan Leaf

"Interesting" - you can't deny that.

9.2 YPA is low? Leinart has 8.9, Brady Quinn has 8.7, Cutler - 6.7... I did a quick search of the top teams and only Ohio State's starting QB has a higher YPA.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Im highly against drafting out of the first 3 spots, those players are generally head and shoulders above the next tier of the draft. They are franchise guys and i dont think teams usually get enough value trading away from that spot (San Diego with that weird situation aside).

Stud RBs are a commodity, you can never have too many and you can get their weight in gold in a trade. QBs, not so much, they take time to develop and often dont pan out. I would draft Bush and not look back. You can always get something for DD down the road, and until then having Bush as young change of pace guy (or even a punt returner) to ease him in and see what he can do may help offensive development. It takes some of the pressure off him as he learns to pick up blitzes etc.

I agree with all of this except the bolded part. As much as they could fill alot of holes by trading down, how can you really pass up the next LT?

 

[glumpy]

Domanick Davis has been among the league RB leaders each of the last two years [5th in 2004 and 9th in 2005]. He is not a bad NFL RB.

David Carr has spent more time on his back the past 4 years than any other NFL QB. You cannot pass it if you have no time.

The Texans should trade down and secure first the O-Line and then add Defensive help.

 

[FBGPoker]

Bush is still going #1.

 

[Gr00vus]

At this point........they should know what they have in David Carr. If they believe in him, and think he's the future in Houston, then I think you trade the draft picks away.

If they think Carr isn't going to be The Guy, then you draft Vince Young.

Vince Young is the best college football player I've EVER seen. I do not say this lately nor does this mean he's going to be the best NFL player.

But I've got to see this guy enough and I believe he's something special. I think if he does come out, you can't pass on him.

I think after last night.........you have to really wonder about Bush. Sure, he's going to make some amazing plays......but he proved he's not an everydown back.

If he's not an every down back in college......he's not going to be in the pros. So, do you really take a RB who's only going to be in the game on certain plays at NO. 1 overall???? I don't.

For those saying he is an every down back........it was proved he wasn't last night on 4th down and 2, with the National Championship on the line, he was not in the game. If you're not in the game in that situation in college, you won't be in the pros.

The part in bold some of us (especially those of us out here in the PAC 10 area) have been saying for most of the season. Some of us have even gone way out there and offered the opinion that Lendale is a better NFL running back prospect than Bush. I still think that's the case.

If the Texans have a shot at getting Young I think they have to take it. It's much more difficult to find a franchise calibre QB than it is finding a franchise calibre RB. QBs have a longer NFL life span than RBs. I think if they can get him, they let Young take his lumps year 1, like Troy Aikman and then put the other pieces in place. It may not even be that bad for Young since he is a running qb - he would suffer less at the hands of a poor offensive line than most qbs (as long as it doesn't ruin his development). Add to that the intangible (which would become very tangible in terms of money) of the feeling for Young in Texas and I think it's a no brainer for the Houston franchise. They could probably afford to sign him to the biggest rookie deal ever and still come out on top just on his jersey sales.

If they can't get Young at #1 they should deal the pick for more draft choices.

I'm assuming Young decides to go out on top, capitalize on his pub right now, declares and that then Houston has to take him.

 

[beef]

go with the home state hero, Vince Young.

 

[Rockchild]

Another interesting aspect that may present itself if Young declares is that New Orleans will have some offers to consider too. Without Young, Leinhert was pretty much the top rated QB and Bush the prize #1 pick. With(if) Young available it changes the dyanmic of the #1 pick and would give the Saints an opportunity to entertain some good offers for whoever is not taken first. If Young is taken first do the Saints take Leinhert or trade down and take Cutler? sidenote: Bush looked very good last night but Lendale White is going to be a great pick for some team(Philadelphia?). If one didn't know about Bush before last night then we'd be talking about White as the top rated RB. And Vince Young was outstanding. He HAS to declare. His stock cannot get much higher, Can it?

 

[beef]

go with the home state hero, Vince Young.

they won't thoughjust heard that Carr's $8 mil bonus will be picked up by the Texans this spring.

 

[FBGPoker]

The fair weathness lately is a bit sickening.One day ago, "Reggie Bush is god and will be the best player to ever step on the field"A day later, "Reggie Bush is a role player 3rd down back, Vince Young will be the #1 pick"One game affects things, but not to the ridiculous degree that is being spewed in this thread.

 

[-OZ-]

I think after last night.........you have to really wonder about Bush.  Sure, he's going to make some amazing plays......but he proved he's not an everydown back.

If he's not an every down back in college......he's not going to be in the pros.  So, do you really take a RB who's only going to be in the game on certain plays at NO. 1 overall????  I don't.

For those saying he  is an every down back........it was proved he wasn't last night on 4th down and 2, with the National Championship on the line, he was not in the game.  If you're not in the game in that situation in college, you won't be in the pros.

The part in bold some of us (especially those of us out here in the PAC 10 area) have been saying for most of the season. Some of us have even gone way out there and offered the opinion that Lendale is a better NFL running back prospect than Bush. I still think that's the case.

Frankly, after the game it seems to me that Bush is a slightly more talented Brian Westbrook, surrounded by all-pro talent. BW has done pretty well in FF leagues, so I wouldn't knock his FF value much, but he has to land in the right team. I doubt Houston is that team to max his FF value - Tennessee however, might be.

 

[pettifogger]

It sure seemed to me that Vince Young left a lot of air under some of his passes that he'd never get away with in the NFL, and he's not likely to see 5-yard-wide gaps in the line with no LBs within sight like he at times did last night. His ability to read the field to find open receivers was extremely impressive, though it seemed to be tested only for relatively short passes; I voted draft Bush (second choice would be to trade down).

 

[Otis]

The fair weathness lately is a bit sickening.

One day ago, "Reggie Bush is god and will be the best player to ever step on the field"

A day later, "Reggie Bush is a role player 3rd down back, Vince Young will be the #1 pick"

One game affects things, but not to the ridiculous degree that is being spewed in this thread.

New here?

 

[Colin Dowling]

go with the home state hero, Vince Young.

they won't thoughjust heard that Carr's $8 mil bonus will be picked up by the Texans this spring.

That would not shock me, seeing as how the only thing the Texans could do to devalue their pick is announce such a thing. I haven't seen a link, and apparently no one else has either, but that would be fitting with their style less than 24 hours after a 3rd player has interjected himself in to the #1 overall debate to say, "We're not taking a QB.

 

[msommer]

go with the home state hero, Vince Young.

they won't thoughjust heard that Carr's $8 mil bonus will be picked up by the Texans this spring.

That would not shock me, seeing as how the only thing the Texans could do to devalue their pick is announce such a thing. I haven't seen a link, and apparently no one else has either, but that would be fitting with their style less than 24 hours after a 3rd player has interjected himself in to the #1 overall debate to say, "We're not taking a QB.

I think there was an interview with one of the pro personnel guys or even Casserley that stated as much about a month ago. Could be just sayi8ng the right thing to Carr.

 

[EBF]

I make the safe pick and select Reggie Bush. You can argue all you want about team needs and about how good Leinart/Young are, but neither QB seems like a lock for success. Bush may not be the second coming of Faulk, but he's going to be an impact player who will pay immediate dividends.

 

[Bojang0301]

Bush is still going #1.

You go ahead and keep dreaming. NFL execs crave QB's and eat them up like no one's business. If Vince Young comes out no way he isn't the number one pick. NFL GM's, Scouts and coaches live year in and year out looking for that franchise QB and Vince Young gave them a reason to believe he is that and they will not pass that up because with all the risks he has Bush has just as many and won't be touching the ball every offensive snap.

 

[Jason Wood]

I've read several reports re: Carr's bonus being picked up, not sure if any were "official" though. In answer to Joe's question...1) Trade it for picks IF it was a valuable lot of picks...obviously this presumes the Texans will be bowled over by an offer1a) Take Reggie Bush...if Bush grades out the way he's expected to, he carries a once-in-a-decade grade. The Texans have to trust their personnel evaluators...IF Bush is that high on their boards, you take the best available player

 

[Festivus]

As a public service, the Texans are now obligated to take Vince Young. If they don't there will be riots in the streets. VY played his high school ball in Houston and his recruiting process was a regular topic on the local sports talk radio shows.

 

[Bojang0301]

One more time before I'm out. NFL teams do not pass up on "franchise" QB's no matter what risks are associated with them... and as far a Young's risks vs. Bush's I would rather take a chance on a QB that is a true threat in every way you can be over a RB which seem to be a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. Lets not forget that the great Shaun Alexander couldn't even find a team interested in him last off-season.

 

[EBF]

One more time before I'm out. NFL teams do not pass up on "franchise" QB's no matter what risks are associated with them... and as far a Young's risks vs. Bush's I would rather take a chance on a QB that is a true threat in every way you can be over a RB which seem to be a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. Lets not forget that the great Shaun Alexander couldn't even find a team interested in him last off-season.

Yea, but the question is who would you take. There's no way that I'd gamble on a QB as raw as Young if I had a chance at a surefire impact player like Bush. That's what I'd do.

 

[Colin Dowling]

One more time before I'm out. NFL teams do not pass up on "franchise" QB's no matter what risks are associated with them... and as far a Young's risks vs. Bush's I would rather take a chance on a QB that is a true threat in every way you can be over a RB which seem to be a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. Lets not forget that the great Shaun Alexander couldn't even find a team interested in him last off-season.

Yea, but the question is who would you take. There's no way that I'd gamble on a QB as raw as Young if I had a chance at a surefire impact player like Bush. That's what I'd do.

I'm interested in the notion of Bush as a "surefire impact player." I think Bush is fantastically talented, but I think the impact is going to be much more muted than people imagine. For starters, no one is going to pay a player #1 money and then let him return kicks. No chance. So, you've removed 1/3 of his "impact" right there. Then, by virtue of having Dom Davis, who happens to be a solid insider runner, you're basically bound to a RBBC of some type, so it's fair to conclude that Bush won't be getting 300 carries a year. So he lines up at receiver, which is awesome too except for the tiny problem of the quarterback being inable to go through his reads. I'm embellishing it a bit, but the idea that he'll have a "surefire impact" for the Texans (I'm using them since they have the pick right now) is in no way assured.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I've read several reports re: Carr's bonus being picked up, not sure if any were "official" though.

In answer to Joe's question...

1) Trade it for picks IF it was a valuable lot of picks...obviously this presumes the Texans will be bowled over by an offer

1a) Take Reggie Bush...if Bush grades out the way he's expected to, he carries a once-in-a-decade grade. The Texans have to trust their personnel evaluators...IF Bush is that high on their boards, you take the best available player

I agree with Jason. My first choice would be to trade down a bit, then trade down a bit more, then trade down a bit more . . . and try to end up with like half the picks in the second round. Then build a Kansas City Chief type of offensive line.If I keep the first pick, I take Reggie Bush because I think he's the best player in the draft (although my opinion here is extremely uninformed since I haven't put in the hundreds of hours of film study of this year's prospects the way NFL scouts have/will).

 

[Rockchild]

I'm leaning more and more toward trading the pick. I think there will be more teams willing to move up to #1 with the emergence of Young along with Bush. If the Texans can skillfully play a few teams off of each other, they can make out like bandits and still improve their team.

 

[EBF]

One more time before I'm out. NFL teams do not pass up on "franchise" QB's no matter what risks are associated with them... and as far a Young's risks vs. Bush's I would rather take a chance on a QB that is a true threat in every way you can be over a RB which seem to be a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. Lets not forget that the great Shaun Alexander couldn't even find a team interested in him last off-season.

Yea, but the question is who would you take. There's no way that I'd gamble on a QB as raw as Young if I had a chance at a surefire impact player like Bush. That's what I'd do.

I'm interested in the notion of Bush as a "surefire impact player." I think Bush is fantastically talented, but I think the impact is going to be much more muted than people imagine. For starters, no one is going to pay a player #1 money and then let him return kicks. No chance. So, you've removed 1/3 of his "impact" right there. Then, by virtue of having Dom Davis, who happens to be a solid insider runner, you're basically bound to a RBBC of some type, so it's fair to conclude that Bush won't be getting 300 carries a year. So he lines up at receiver, which is awesome too except for the tiny problem of the quarterback being inable to go through his reads. I'm embellishing it a bit, but the idea that he'll have a "surefire impact" for the Texans (I'm using them since they have the pick right now) is in no way assured.

I think he'd add a big play dimension that their offense lacks. I realize that you're not one of his biggest fans, but he's a truly exceptional player. A creative offensive coordinator will be able to do a lot of fun things with Bush. You can split him out wide, use him in two back sets, or just run him up right up the middle. The bottom line is that if you get the ball in his hands then he's going to give you some big plays. It's funny, people act like he had a bad game last night, but he had something like 150+ total yards and a TD. That's pretty good for an off week.

Leinart would be a consideration if I had an early pick, but I don't think I could stomach the risk unless I already had a championship caliber team (Leinart would be a great fit for a team like Baltimore, Detroit, or Chicago). Then again, I thought Carson Palmer was overrated, so maybe I'm selling Matt short.

At any rate, there's no way that I'd gamble on Young with a top ten pick. I love his running skills and he seems like he has good poise, but it's very difficult to judge his prospects as a passer. He had a nice throwing game last night, but Texas runs a wacky offense that doesn't call for a lot of NFL-type passing. I'm always wary of QBs who thrive in gimmicky systems. For that matter, I'm always wary of QBs who thrive in pro-style systems, but I'm especially wary when they're doing things that don't work in the NFL.

It's not Young's fault that Texas doesn't have him drop back like an NFL QB, but you still have to ding him until he proves that he can excel as a pocket passer. For all the poise and accuracy that he showed at times last night, he didn't throw any deep balls/deep outs and he threw up one or two floaters that would've been picked off in the NFL (the pass that the Ting twin dropped comes to mind).

 

[Colin Dowling]

I like Bush a great deal. I think his talent offers a bit of a conundrum - for as high as he is going to be drafted, OCs have to figure out how to get him the ball to justify the pick. I think that may be tough.

 

[Gr00vus]

I like Bush a great deal. I think his talent offers a bit of a conundrum - for as high as he is going to be drafted, OCs have to figure out how to get him the ball to justify the pick. I think that may be tough.

I agree with this. He reminds me (and I've seen others make the comparison as well) of Eric Metcalf. Metcalf had immense ability but no one ever figured out the best way to completely utilize it, though the Browns came close. As a result he was a good player but never a dominant one. Is Bush more talented than Metcalf? Possibly, maybe even probably, but the same problems remain.Also I question the validity of the opinion of Bush that you can " run him up right up the middle." He's proved on numerous occasions that in fact you can't do this - he is not successful at it. To me that's as big a negative for him as some of the perceived negatives for Young are.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I can see selecting the #1 pick on him if you already have a proven between the tackles runner and you're willing to put "Bush the WR" in the playbook almost as much as "Bush the RB". You can't use the #1 pick to return kicks - too much risk - and besides, the Texans have an excellent return man. I'd be tempted, if I were the Texans, to work Reggie in as the flanker almost as much as I lined him up in the backfield. Obviously, it's not "bad value" to spend the #1 pick on him - WRs have gone near the top of the draft for years and they at most get (on avg.) 6 or so touches a game. I just think the notion of taking Bush as a RB alone is silly. Colin

 

[Sinrman]

I agree with the overwhelming 2/3rds vote that they should trade the pick... 2006's #1 pick overall will be worth more than any previous by a LOT. Want Reggie Bush? You're gonna pay for it... they just have too many holes to fill to burn it all on Bush.

 

[coolnerd]

I can see selecting the #1 pick on him if you already have a proven between the tackles runner and you're willing to put "Bush the WR" in the playbook almost as much as "Bush the RB". You can't use the #1 pick to return kicks - too much risk - and besides, the Texans have an excellent return man. I'd be tempted, if I were the Texans, to work Reggie in as the flanker almost as much as I lined him up in the backfield. Obviously, it's not "bad value" to spend the #1 pick on him - WRs have gone near the top of the draft for years and they at most get (on avg.) 6 or so touches a game.

I just think the notion of taking Bush as a RB alone is silly.

Colin

Can I copy and paste this into every Bush thread? The people most against Bush are generally the one most trying to force him into a traditional mold because he has the title "running back." The way he was used in the championship game was pretty much the way he will be used (or should be) as a pro (13 carries/6 catches). I am not sold that Houston is the team for him until I get an idea of who is designing the offense. We know that the previous staff would have misused him. along those lines, a Vince young pick would also require a coach with some creativity and teaching ability as he is not a traditional player either.

From a pure football standpoint , the best move is probably to trade down. That said, I am not as convinced as many of the people on this board that a decent trade down will be available. Secondly, I expect the Texans to make a flashier, more business and marketing related move, which either Young or Bush represents.

 

[-OZ-]

I can see selecting the #1 pick on him if you already have a proven between the tackles runner and you're willing to put "Bush the WR" in the playbook almost as much as "Bush the RB". You can't use the #1 pick to return kicks - too much risk - and besides, the Texans have an excellent return man. I'd be tempted, if I were the Texans, to work Reggie in as the flanker almost as much as I lined him up in the backfield. Obviously, it's not "bad value" to spend the #1 pick on him - WRs have gone near the top of the draft for years and they at most get (on avg.) 6 or so touches a game.

I just think the notion of taking Bush as a RB alone is silly.

Colin

Can I copy and paste this into every Bush thread? The people most against Bush are generally the one most trying to force him into a traditional mold because he has the title "running back." The way he was used in the championship game was pretty much the way he will be used (or should be) as a pro (13 carries/6 catches). I am not sold that Houston is the team for him until I get an idea of who is designing the offense. We know that the previous staff would have misused him. along those lines, a Vince young pick would also require a coach with some creativity and teaching ability as he is not a traditional player either.

From a pure football standpoint , the best move is probably to trade down. That said, I am not as convinced as many of the people on this board that a decent trade down will be available. Secondly, I expect the Texans to make a flashier, more business and marketing related move, which either Young or Bush represents.

I can't help but think about the Titans with Reggie Bush.1. Brown is a good RB, when healthy, but he lacks the skill Bush brings. His presence means Bush is able to keep essentially his same role from USC to the NFL.

2. Bush as a receiver is better than anything the Titans have. He could be used in a similar manner as LT was a couple years ago when he caught 100 receptions, except that he wouldn't be the entire offense.

3. Norm Chow

 

[hkphooey]

I would say that you try and deal Young to :

Minnesota

Green Bay

Detroit

Cleveland

Oakland

Arizona

Miami

Dallas

Kansas City

Washington

You never know unless you ask ...

Out of that list I would think it could be whittled down toDetroit

Oakland

I donts ee DAL or KC having enough to trade up that far.

I could definitely see VY in OAK...but if he goes there I have to hate him by rule as a Chiefs fan.

I just don't think you can give up on Carr at this point. Admitedly I am a Lions fan, AND I hope they try and offer Charles Rogers/Mike Williams and the #9 for Vince Young. The pairing of Andre Johnson and Charles/Mike would make that offense better by itself. Then with the #9 pick, Houston would draft the franchise tackle (The Winstons or McNeill) that they so desperately need, and who knows, maybe even D'Brick falls that far.

Vince Young to Roy Williams. Could their be anything sweeter?

 

[mektarus]

Rayderr,

I would agree with the fact that Washington had a lot to loose by playing Campbell, but mostly because they were in a playoff race.

The Packers have been out of the playoff race for weeks.  Rodgers should have had at least the 4th Quarter in the last 5 to 6 games for the Packers.

As you state, Rodgers will not get better without snaps.  What better way to give him live snaps?  He got 16 all season ...

You can not bench Brett Favre just to give the rookie a few snaps before next season. He is a God in those parts and you would be a fool to ever try and deny him the right to leave the game on his own terms. With everything he has done and meant to that franchise he could probably ask to play for the next 5 years and GB would be forced to simply say "yes sir".

Not to mention the fact that the waiting list for tickets to a Packer's game is like 30yrs long and the fans come to see #4...period.

 

[tommyGunZ]

One more time before I'm out. NFL teams do not pass up on "franchise" QB's no matter what risks are associated with them... and as far a Young's risks vs. Bush's I would rather take a chance on a QB that is a true threat in every way you can be over a RB which seem to be a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. Lets not forget that the great Shaun Alexander couldn't even find a team interested in him last off-season.

Yea, but the question is who would you take. There's no way that I'd gamble on a QB as raw as Young if I had a chance at a surefire impact player like Bush. That's what I'd do.

I'm interested in the notion of Bush as a "surefire impact player." I think Bush is fantastically talented, but I think the impact is going to be much more muted than people imagine. For starters, no one is going to pay a player #1 money and then let him return kicks. No chance. So, you've removed 1/3 of his "impact" right there. Then, by virtue of having Dom Davis, who happens to be a solid insider runner, you're basically bound to a RBBC of some type, so it's fair to conclude that Bush won't be getting 300 carries a year. So he lines up at receiver, which is awesome too except for the tiny problem of the quarterback being inable to go through his reads. I'm embellishing it a bit, but the idea that he'll have a "surefire impact" for the Texans (I'm using them since they have the pick right now) is in no way assured.

Love your college football analysis, but you're way off on this one gb. Rumors abound about several of the scouting services possibly giving Bush the highest grade of any prospect in history. No one is bust proof, but you don't take VY b/c of a big Rose Bowl when everyone and their grandmother says that Bush is Gale Sayers reincarnated.The hype is getting way out of hand. If the Texans want VY, they trade down to the #3 and take him there.

It's a moot point anyway - no way the Texans give up on Carr at this point and turn the reins over to someone as raw as VY.

IMO, of course.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I like Bush a great deal. I think his talent offers a bit of a conundrum - for as high as he is going to be drafted, OCs have to figure out how to get him the ball to justify the pick. I think that may be tough.

Hand it to him. 20+ times a game.

 

[godeepthreatz1]

If i'm running the Texans I say D.Carr,D.Davis,A.Johnson you are my core to build around. Trade the pick and get a bunch of picks and a ready made O-line or D-line player that is an impact NFL'er right now. I go out and draft the top o-lineman on the board and then look for a very good complement to A.Johnson say an E.Moulds type. Offensively add a top TE in the draft and boom the offense is set for years. This off season I'm making 2 top o-lineman priorities.A good complement to A.Johnson no.2, a pass catching TE no.3.

 

[godeepthreatz1]

I think that if Houston does keep number 1 overall they have to take Young now. I say Bush ends up in NY.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think the idea of taking VY to sell tickets is short sighted. Winning puts fannies in the seats long term, not taking the hometown hero when he doesn't fit a need at all.

 

[SaosiN]

The Texans should take Reggie Bush... **** Vince Young, David Carr is good, cept his wideouts and o-line suck.. he gets sacked like 6 times per game. People want them to take Vince Young so that their team can get Reggie Bush cause they would rather have Reggie Bush. All you Jets fans, Saints fans, Packer fans, and 49er fans, all want Reggie Bush. Bush is gonna be the rookie of the year and he can make a play every time he touches the ball. If they don't pick Bush they are stupid because David Carr is a good enough qurterback. Why would they want to start over and wait for Young to mature unless he is like Roethlisberger or Orton but he won't cause the Texans O-line sucks. They aren't gonig anywhere if they chose Young, they need the superstar running back, his game breaking ability, he is the Lebron James of football. He is so elite, sorry you Jet fans, you aren't getting Reggie Bush unless the Texans are ######ed

 

[falconeyed]

VY, assuming he declares and HOU takes him, will be running behind the same OL that Carr has been running behind. Let's face it ... VY may be a great NFL player, but if HOU drafts him (and starts him), he's a rookie QB behind a suspect OL that can't stop anyone on defense. Unless they seriously address their OL issues via free agency, HOU trades down and takes someone else.Is it April yet?

 

[Urinal Mint]

Which is why he should end up in Tennessee with an OC that knows how to handle him.

I like Bush a great deal. I think his talent offers a bit of a conundrum - for as high as he is going to be drafted, OCs have to figure out how to get him the ball to justify the pick. I think that may be tough.

 

[Toxic Gatorade]

How's this for a scenario?Texans trade down from #1 to #3 with Tennessee.......gain an additional pick. Tennessee takes Vince at #1, New Orleans is left with Matt Leinart and Houston still gets Reggie Bush at #3.Depending on what pick Tennessee hands over, the Texans still have the #33 (2nd round, #1) and 2 3rd round picks. Could Tennessee hand over another 3rd round pick to secure Vince Young (assuming he declares)?

 

[-OZ-]

How's this for a scenario?

Texans trade down from #1 to #3 with Tennessee.......gain an additional pick. Tennessee takes Vince at #1, New Orleans is left with Matt Leinart and Houston still gets Reggie Bush at #3.

Depending on what pick Tennessee hands over, the Texans still have the #33 (2nd round, #1) and 2 3rd round picks. Could Tennessee hand over another 3rd round pick to secure Vince Young (assuming he declares)?

Why would the Titans give a 3rd for nothing? (I realize Cleveland did it a couple years ago, but the Titans aren't as bad an organization as the Browns were)If they want Young, he'll still be around at 1.03. If by chance he's taken, you get Bush or maybe Leinart. IMO the Titans are in an ideal spot here. Less $ to the #3 pick, you get an equal player, probably the guy they want anyway.

 

[sho nuff]

How's this for a scenario?

Texans trade down from #1 to #3 with Tennessee.......gain an additional pick. Tennessee takes Vince at #1, New Orleans is left with Matt Leinart and Houston still gets Reggie Bush at #3.

Depending on what pick Tennessee hands over, the Texans still have the #33 (2nd round, #1) and 2 3rd round picks. Could Tennessee hand over another 3rd round pick to secure Vince Young (assuming he declares)?

Why would the Titans give a 3rd for nothing? (I realize Cleveland did it a couple years ago, but the Titans aren't as bad an organization as the Browns were)If they want Young, he'll still be around at 1.03. If by chance he's taken, you get Bush or maybe Leinart. IMO the Titans are in an ideal spot here. Less $ to the #3 pick, you get an equal player, probably the guy they want anyway.

Or if they do not want either of the QBS that fall to them...their #3 pick becomes very valuable with the Jets right behind them and needing a QB.But yes...I do not think there is anyway the Titans try and move up to take Vince Young. Down is the only way the Titans will move.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

How's this for a scenario?

Texans trade down from #1 to #3 with Tennessee.......gain an additional pick.    Tennessee takes Vince at #1, New Orleans is left with Matt Leinart and Houston still gets Reggie Bush at #3.

Depending on what pick Tennessee hands over, the Texans still have the #33 (2nd round, #1) and 2 3rd round picks.    Could Tennessee hand over another 3rd round pick to secure Vince Young (assuming he declares)?

2 problems:1. Why pay him #1 money when you can get Leinart or Young for #3 money?

2. Titans don't have a 3rd round pick.

 

[Toxic Gatorade]

How's this for a scenario?

Texans trade down from #1 to #3 with Tennessee.......gain an additional pick.     Tennessee takes Vince at #1, New Orleans is left with Matt Leinart and Houston still gets Reggie Bush at #3.

Depending on what pick Tennessee hands over, the Texans still have the #33 (2nd round, #1) and 2 3rd round picks.     Could Tennessee hand over another 3rd round pick to secure Vince Young (assuming he declares)?

2 problems:1. Why pay him #1 money when you can get Leinart or Young for #3 money?

2. Titans don't have a #3 pick.

Really? Every draft order I see has the Titans with the #3 and NYJets #4Nevermind.......misread your post.

Giving a 3rd was a "possible scenario"........keep that in mind.

 

[ShadowMaster]

I voted trade out. I don't see RB or QB as the major issues in Houston. Davis has been pretty good given what is around him and how opponents key the D on him. Carr is way ahead of what any Rookie QB will give you.Getting an influx of help in multiple areas of greater need would be better IMO. Should be alot of sweet deals offered as those teams looking for the final piece try to over-pay for Bush.

 

[Jason Wood]

I like Bush a great deal. I think his talent offers a bit of a conundrum - for as high as he is going to be drafted, OCs have to figure out how to get him the ball to justify the pick. I think that may be tough.

One more time before I'm out. NFL teams do not pass up on "franchise" QB's no matter what risks are associated with them... and as far a Young's risks vs. Bush's I would rather take a chance on a QB that is a true threat in every way you can be over a RB which seem to be a dime a dozen anymore in the NFL. Lets not forget that the great Shaun Alexander couldn't even find a team interested in him last off-season.

Yea, but the question is who would you take. There's no way that I'd gamble on a QB as raw as Young if I had a chance at a surefire impact player like Bush. That's what I'd do.

I'm interested in the notion of Bush as a "surefire impact player." I think Bush is fantastically talented, but I think the impact is going to be much more muted than people imagine. For starters, no one is going to pay a player #1 money and then let him return kicks. No chance. So, you've removed 1/3 of his "impact" right there. Then, by virtue of having Dom Davis, who happens to be a solid insider runner, you're basically bound to a RBBC of some type, so it's fair to conclude that Bush won't be getting 300 carries a year. So he lines up at receiver, which is awesome too except for the tiny problem of the quarterback being inable to go through his reads. I'm embellishing it a bit, but the idea that he'll have a "surefire impact" for the Texans (I'm using them since they have the pick right now) is in no way assured.

Love your college football analysis, but you're way off on this one gb. Rumors abound about several of the scouting services possibly giving Bush the highest grade of any prospect in history. No one is bust proof, but you don't take VY b/c of a big Rose Bowl when everyone and their grandmother says that Bush is Gale Sayers reincarnated.The hype is getting way out of hand. If the Texans want VY, they trade down to the #3 and take him there.

It's a moot point anyway - no way the Texans give up on Carr at this point and turn the reins over to someone as raw as VY.

IMO, of course.

When's the last time a non-QB was the CONSENSUS top NFL prospect? I'm talking about virtually anyone and everyone declaring it a foregone conclusion that Reggie Bush should be the 1st pick?

What stuns me is that so many people, despite this, throw out this notion that Bush isn't equipped to be an every down back. Just because he was used in a versatile manner at USC and split time with LenDale White doesn't mean the kid can't tote the rock 18-20 times a game in the NFL.

Last year Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown were top-5 picks and they split carries their entire careers with one another. NOTHING in either players collegiate history suggested he could DEFINITELY carry the rock on a full time basis. Yet neither carried the grade or universal admiration that Bush brings.

People keep acting as if Bush is Darren Sproles or Warrick Dunn, he's not. He's 6'0", 200 lbs...and that will easily be 210 once he breaks camp with an NFL team.

Clinton Portis was 5'11", 205 coming out of Miami

Marshall Faulk was 5'11", 209 coming out of SDSU

Tiki Barber was 5'10", sub-200 coming out of Virginia

Walter Payton was 5'10", 202 lbs!

 

[Donnybrook]

The problem for the Texans is that they will have to show their hand early. They have until February 15th to pick up Carr’s option. It hard to see how the Texans could take a QB, if Carr is signed and still making several million a season.

 

[dgreen]

The problem for the Texans is that they will have to show their hand early. They have until February 15th to pick up Carr’s option.

It hard to see how the Texans could take a QB, if Carr is signed and still making several million a season.

I don't think that's a problem. The trade value for that pick won't change. If you have a strong preference between Leinart and Young, you probably need to go above NO to get that player.

 

[Jason Wood]

The problem for the Texans is that they will have to show their hand early. They have until February 15th to pick up Carr’s option.

It hard to see how the Texans could take a QB, if Carr is signed and still making several million a season.

I think if Casserly was dismissed along with Capers, the Texans would've likely punted Carr. But now that he's still in power, I don't see how they'll let Carr walk away.