This just got a lot more interesting.J
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If You're The Texans.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Cowboys#1
Footballguy
i was a believer in trading down to get picks + d'bricki still think its a viable solution but the stakes just got raised real high, now Vince has seperated himself from nearly everyone and should be rated well enough to be #1.if i am the texans i cut my losses with carr and usher in the era of the hometown hero.Vince!
Trap Play
Footballguy
Joe,I voted for: Trade the pick for other draft choices.This all seems erriely similar to the 2001 draft with Michael Vick and LaDainian Tomlinson. If the Texans are smart and play their cards right, they try and trade down with the Titans and grab Bush at no. 3 spot.
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The economic impact Young would have on that franchise is something that will now be heavily considered, assuming Young delcares himself eligible for the draft. That franchise needs a ton of help and trading that #1 pick makes the most sense in terms of X's and O's. Holding the pick and drafting Young is the smart marketing and sales decision. It is a unique dichotomy. Play to win. Play to be profitable or play to have a balance between the two. You folks that live outside of Texas have no idea the icon status that Young thrust himself into with last night's game. Outside of College Station Young could pretty much do whatever he wanted from here until eternity. Trust that Mcnair, who is a savvy business man, sees this. I do not think the #1 pick is a simple matter of taking R. Bush or trading down any longer.
Dumb draft question: When can teams trade picks? Can they trade today?J
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
If you take Young, what in the hell do you do with David Carr? Does he know how to cut block?
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
I agree. I thought this would work well for the Cowboys if they had drafted Derrick Johnson this past April... however, Ware and Spears endeared themselves to the fans quickly.
packersfan
Footballguy
I still think it's in their best interests to trade down and acquire more talent given the numerous weaknesses on their team. So that's how I voted.However, if Young declares it'll be pretty damn tough for them not to take him and I wouldn't fault them if they did.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Domanick Davis has been among the league RB leaders each of the last two years [5th in 2004 and 9th in 2005]. He is not a bad NFL RB.David Carr has spent more time on his back the past 4 years than any other NFL QB. You cannot pass it if you have no time.The Texans should trade down and secure first the O-Line and then add Defensive help.
I was shocked the Pokes based on DJ. SHOCKED but you are right. Ware and Spears have been fan favorites all season. Young's status, though, is WAY beyond what DJ achieved, while at UT. It is going to be damn near impossible for McNair to ignore that come draft day. I agree, though, that the Texans should trade down. The team just needs too much help but the situation is extremely compounded at this point.
Hi Faust,I believe you're right. Although if I'm Houston, I'm trying to deal Vince Young this morning....
J
Rayderr
Footballguy
However, since Vince hasn't declared, none of the powers that be can even mention him. (strange NFL rule. Applies to owners, coaches and front office staff, but not to the players.)Hi Faust,I believe you're right. Although if I'm Houston, I'm trying to deal Vince Young this morning....
J
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
Who do you deal Young to? New Orleans is right in line for either him or Leinart at the #2 spot. New York more than likely wants Reggie Bush or DeAngelo Williams. Tennessee has a chance to go after him, but they also have Volek waiting in the wings.It sounds tricky.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
I would say that you try and deal Young to :MinnesotaGreen BayDetroitClevelandOaklandArizonaMiamiDallasKansas CityWashingtonYou never know unless you ask ...
I still say the Texans take either Bush or Young with there first pick and then address other needs with the rest of their draft picks and through free agency. My question is how many rookie O-linemen, muchless multiple rookie starting O-linemen, come in and make an immediate impact on winning?
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Out of that list I would think it could be whittled down toDetroit
Oakland
I donts ee DAL or KC having enough to trade up that far.
I could definitely see VY in OAK...but if he goes there I have to hate him by rule as a Chiefs fan.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Rayderr,If Green Bay is so high on Aaron Rodgers, then why did he get only 16 passing attempts all season?They could have easily spared some wear and tear on Favre and let him play the 2nd half of each game [at least the last six games].Brunell led the Redskins to the 21st rated Passing Offense in the league. He helped them win games, but ...If I am the Texans, then both of these teams are both on my list of folks to call for a possible trade down.
Im highly against drafting out of the first 3 spots, those players are generally head and shoulders above the next tier of the draft. They are franchise guys and i dont think teams usually get enough value trading away from that spot (San Diego with that weird situation aside).Stud RBs are a commodity, you can never have too many and you can get their weight in gold in a trade. QBs, not so much, they take time to develop and often dont pan out. I would draft Bush and not look back. You can always get something for DD down the road, and until then having Bush as young change of pace guy (or even a punt returner) to ease him in and see what he can do may help offensive development. It takes some of the pressure off him as he learns to pick up blitzes etc.
Rayderr
Footballguy
Being high on someone does not necessarily equate into being the best at that particular moment. It takes most QB's a couple seasons to get acclimmated to the NFL. Yes there are some that are starting QB's from day 1. But more often than not, they fail miserably. For every Peyton Manning, there's a dozen Ryan Leafs. Generaly consesus around the NFL is that you need to give QB's time to develop. Neither Rodgers, or Campbell have had that opportunity.
Edit to add: And don't forget about salary cap implications. First round QB's get a fair amount. Having 2 on a roster with their original contracts (and no way does the 2nd year QB renegotiate if a team has brought in a guy to leap frog him without getting a chance) would be salary cap hell.
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Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Rayderr,I would agree with the fact that Washington had a lot to loose by playing Campbell, but mostly because they were in a playoff race.The Packers have been out of the playoff race for weeks. Rodgers should have had at least the 4th Quarter in the last 5 to 6 games for the Packers.As you state, Rodgers will not get better without snaps. What better way to give him live snaps? He got 16 all season ...
SkyRattlers
Anti-aliai
You can not bench Brett Favre just to give the rookie a few snaps before next season. He is a God in those parts and you would be a fool to ever try and deny him the right to leave the game on his own terms. With everything he has done and meant to that franchise he could probably ask to play for the next 5 years and GB would be forced to simply say "yes sir".
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Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Rayderr,Please know that I mean no disrespect to Brett Favre.But when the Packers were 2-7 with no chance for the playoffs they should have been using Rodgers for between 1 and 2 quarters each of the last 7 games; whether or not they were in a position to win.They ended up 2-5 the last 7 games with Brett taking all but 15 snaps. How much worse could they have done with Rodgers in the game. For 2006, 2007 and beyond Rodgers should have been taking live snaps ...
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Hometown Heros are a nightmare in the making. They demand too much salary, they overinflate expectation, they are impossible to bench or cut in timely fashion.Where I the GM of the Texans I'd be keeping my mouth shut around the press. I'd speak to Carr and Davis' agents gaging their interest in trades and their salary expectations if they are not interested. I'd quietly talk to other GM's about the worth of Carr and or Davis along with any discussions about moving down in the draft. I'd watch all the underclassmen to see who declares and around March I'd start fielding offers for the pick.
Nemesis
Footballguy
The funny thing is that David Carr may now actually being doing THIS ---> 
If I was him, I would want to be traded to another team that is closer to contention and escape the Houston nightmare that he has had to endure. IMO, he's still got a lot of value in him and can be a productive QB with the right cast around him.Interesting topic:Too bad this wasn't last yr as BOTH San Fran and Miami (#1 and #2 picks last yr) would have been slam dunks to take ML and VY off the board at this point.
If I was him, I would want to be traded to another team that is closer to contention and escape the Houston nightmare that he has had to endure. IMO, he's still got a lot of value in him and can be a productive QB with the right cast around him.Interesting topic:Too bad this wasn't last yr as BOTH San Fran and Miami (#1 and #2 picks last yr) would have been slam dunks to take ML and VY off the board at this point.
Pipes
Footballguy
Sorry to Hijack but I completely disagree. I don't think you put Rodgers in their with that poor offensive line and practice squad WR's (with the exception of Driver of course). I think that would've shattered the young guys confidence.I like the approach of bringing him along slowly. That approach seems to have worked well for Carson Palmer.
To get back on topic I think Houston should trade down...they should be able to get a king's ransom for that pick.
as a Dallas fan, i'd love to take a chance on David Carr on the cheapi dont know what the Texans would want for him, or if they'd be able to absorb his salary (the Cowboys) but i'd be willing to take a chance on him if i were Parcellsalso, dont be surprised if he ends up where Martz doesMartz LOVED Carr in the draft, LOVED himso you know he probably thinks he could win with him....
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
At this point........they should know what they have in David Carr. If they believe in him, and think he's the future in Houston, then I think you trade the draft picks away.If they think Carr isn't going to be The Guy, then you draft Vince Young.Vince Young is the best college football player I've EVER seen. I do not say this lately nor does this mean he's going to be the best NFL player.But I've got to see this guy enough and I believe he's something special. I think if he does come out, you can't pass on him.I think after last night.........you have to really wonder about Bush. Sure, he's going to make some amazing plays......but he proved he's not an everydown back.If he's not an every down back in college......he's not going to be in the pros. So, do you really take a RB who's only going to be in the game on certain plays at NO. 1 overall???? I don't.For those saying he is an every down back........it was proved he wasn't last night on 4th down and 2, with the National Championship on the line, he was not in the game. If you're not in the game in that situation in college, you won't be in the pros.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
That's not always the case........where you think you can just take who's ever left over and be OK. The Chargers thought that with Phillip Rivers and let Eli go. Sure, unexpectedly Drew Brees has played well but that wasn't the plan. They were banking on Rivers being just as good as Manning and so far, that hasn't come close to being the case.When you've got the chance to take a potential superstar, someone that could turn your organization around......I say take that chance.Extremely(A slight modification, in bold.)
I wish Dallas would trade 2 or 3 No. 1 draft picks to move up and get Vince Young, I'd love it!
Spike
Footballguy
That would be one scary team!That's not always the case........where you think you can just take who's ever left over and be OK. The Chargers thought that with Phillip Rivers and let Eli go. Sure, unexpectedly Drew Brees has played well but that wasn't the plan. They were banking on Rivers being just as good as Manning and so far, that hasn't come close to being the case.When you've got the chance to take a potential superstar, someone that could turn your organization around......I say take that chance.Extremely
I wish Dallas would trade 2 or 3 No. 1 draft picks to move up and get Vince Young, I'd love it!
-OZ-
Footballguy
You really can't use the Chargers as an argument not to trade down, it's worked extremely well for them. What would have happened if they kept Eli, and he wanted to be a Charger? IMO the team would be in a worse position than they are now, Eli isn't much better than Brees if at all, and the extra pick has helped. Not to say you're wrong, but the example is flawed.I agree with your point here, take the superstar when you have the chance. The thing is, there's 3 players with superstar potential here, why not trade down from 1 to 3 and still land one of them, plus additional help?
Stinger Ray
Footballguy
trade down for the mother of all picks and focus them on the o and d lines. it's time to properly BUILD this team.
Rayderr
Footballguy
OK, let's say you're right, and everybody else here is wrong. And that the reason why Rodgers and Campbell played hardly at all this season, is because after they were drafted, their respective teams looked at them and said "Damn, this kid sucks. WTF were we thinking using a first round pick on him?" With their first round draft pick from last year getting a pretty sizeable contract, how do you manage the salary cap of taking a QB with one of the top 3 picks? Keep in mind that even in SD, where they had the disaster at QB in Ryan Leaf, and what they thought was a disaster in Drew Brees (who actually was a 2nd round pick), they waited 3 years in between picking a QB in the top 32.
Ok, sure. And then start a bunch of rookies on O-line and D and secure that Carr beats his rookie sack total and the Texans get the first pick of the 2007 draft. Good idea. Franchise players are at the top three. Take one of them. They can build a team, or at least improve it, with the picks they have.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I see what you're saying........but to be honost I don't think Bush is going to be a superstar. I think he'll be good I guess, but not a top 5 fantasy back type guy. I did not like that he was often on the bench in that game last night. I have to wonder why....sure the other guys good but he's supposed to be the best, isn't he?Anyway Oz,
Brees wasn't part of that draft. If you just isolate the draft........I think the Chargers made a mistake. Sure Brees worked out, but that doesn't mean they did well by taking Rivers.
It's like the Pistons, they have a good team. But they did draft Darco, the Human Victory Cigar No. 2 overall 3 years ago ahead of Carmello and D. Wade. Just because the Pistons brought in Rasheed Wallace doesn't mean that wasn't a bad draft pick.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
I know Brees wasn't part of the trade, but he's part of the equation. It's a completely different situation than the Pistons, even though I agree with you on that point.
Simple question, you're Marty - do you prefer Eli or Rivers, Kaeding/Hardwick, and whatever they did with the 2005 5th (traded a few times)?
Seems easy enough to me, Eli might not even be starting right now so his value is no more than Rivers. They landed a starting LB and C or PK - IMO without losing much. Same idea applies to Houston.
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I think Reggie Bush is going to end up closer to Warrick Dunn production wise than Barry Sanders. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, but I'm still not sure I see the "once in a lifetime talent!" angle.If I had the #1, and I'm the Texans w/ a new coach, an impatient fan base, and the chance to get started all over (so to speak), I send David Carr and another later pick (or two) to the Jets for the #4 and CHad Pennington. I select Young first overall and Ferguson 4th. (I know, it's ridiculous). Colin
jburns
Footballguy
i think last nights game diminished the power of the number one pick held by the texans. it was long believed that it was 1. REGGIE BUSHthen everyone else.now it seems like reggie bush might not be heads and shoulders above everyone else and that there are other players, (matt and vince) who will be considered with that number one pick.
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
This move would be a franchise killer for 5 years. I think it's a bad idea to mortgage the immediate future for a guy that got to play behind one of the best college O-lines in years.
nygiants56
Footballguy
How so? of all the highly touted college QB's to be top picks in the early rounds the past few years, who has really produced at a high level, or been worth the monetary investment by the team that drafted him?Harrington? Couch? Akili Smith? Losman? Ware? Peete? Ty Detmer? Heath Shuler? Leaf? Rex Grossman? Kordell Stewart? Pennington? on and on...
Even Vinnie Testeverde, the Great Miami U QB, flopped in the NFL. Jason White won a Heisman, nearly won a second, where is he now? Wuerffel..Joe Germaine and Major Applewhite were great college QB's, where are they? Gino Torretta? Charlie Ward plays in the NBA, but was 1 heck of a college QB..
the point of it all, is that you have no idea who is going to successfully make the transition to the NFL..
Terell Davis and Tom Brady were both picked very late ( 5th and 6th rounds?)
and both are someday more than likely going to be hall of famers...Brett Favre was a second rounder..
Didn't Archie Griffin win back-to-back Heisman trophies? did that translate to success in the NFL? nope!
For every Carson Palmer/Peyton Manning, there is a Ryan Leaf/Tim Couch..
basically, selecting a QB early ( rnds 1 or two lets say) means you've got a 50/50 shot that he'll ever pan out..
thats alot of money to throw at a guy like ryan leaf or tim couch or heath shuler..
just because vince young looks good in college, doesn't mean that will translate into nfl stardom..I'd be concerned with that hitch he has in the throwing motion..
and his 9.2 yards/completion avg is low..
has Vick lived up to his top billing? nope.
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