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Illegal immigration (1 Viewer)

I feel horrible for the girl and her family. What a tragedy.

Can we get an article that explains the what/how/why/who? I read the BB piece and one day the perp is in Guatemala the next he is in MD. Does he have parents? Where are they? How did he end up in MD? Who was the immigration judge? Was there a judge? Where are they getting this information? Did he have a prior record? Couldn't this guy have gotten into the US under Trump's plan just as well?
Here you go Sid - Suspects in Rockville rape case were detained at U.S.-Mexico border in 2016

The two teenagers accused of raping a ninth-grader at Rockville High School last week were among tens of thousands of young people who crossed the U.S.-Mexico border illegally in 2016.

Jose Montano was searching for his uncle; Henry Sanchez Milian, for his dad.

Traveling separately, each was apprehended by federal border agents and targeted for deportation proceedings.

But after time in federal custody, each was allowed to join relatives in Maryland, two more individuals in a backlogged, secretive immigration system who would put down roots in this country long before their first day in court.

Last Thursday, Montano, 17, and Sanchez Milian, 18, allegedly took turns raping a 14-year-old girl in a high school bathroom. They have become the public face of an immigration debate raging in this country, fueled by President Trump's rhetoric about "rapists" and "bad hombres."

Critics have sharply questioned why the United States has admitted more than 150,000 unaccompanied minors, mostly from Central America, in the past three years, crowding immigration courts and public schools. This week, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan, a Republican, called it "a kind of amnesty."

But the superintendent of Montgomery County Schools and advocates said politicians should not judge immigrant children seeking a better life for themselves by one disturbing case.

"The unaccompanied minors are overwhelmingly young people who are coming here fleeing horrific circumstances of violence in their countries," said Kim Propeack, political director at the immigrant advocacy group Casa.

A variety of U.S. government agencies have had contact with Montano and Sanchez Milian. Border agents held them first, and then, as the law requires, turned them over to Health and Human Services, which sheltered them and apparently released them to their guardians in Maryland.

The teens enrolled in public schools, which are required by federal law to admit them. School officials said they were in a special program for students who don't speak English. They were not in classes with the alleged victim.

Border agents had given the teens notices to appear in immigration court. But Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which initiates deportation proceedings in immigration courts, never filed charges against Sanchez Milian, a court spokeswoman said. ICE officials said Wednesday that the teen was not a priority for deportation because he had no criminal record and "no known gang affiliations."

ICE officials would not comment on Montano's deportation case because he is a minor. He has been charged as an adult in the rape case.

Sanchez Milian and Montano are being held without bail bond. Each is charged with one count of first-degree rape and two counts of first-degree sex offense. Prosecutors say the girl was forced into a boys' bathroom and raped as she cried out in pain and told them repeatedly to stop.

The teens have not yet entered a plea in the case. But Sanchez Milian's defense attorney, Andrew Jezic, said Wednesday that he was not guilty and called the encounter "consensual." Sanchez Milian had fled gang violence in Guatemala and was seeking a better life in the United States, Jezic said.

On Wednesday, a woman who lives in the house Montano shares with his uncle said she could not imagine the teen she knows by the nickname "Chepe" committing such a crime.

She said she has rented the room next to Montano's bedroom for about two months and described him as a "moto" — Spanish for orphan, abandoned by his parents in El Salvador. He calls his uncle, Orlando Montano, "Papa."

The elder Montano confirmed Tuesday that he is Jose Montano's guardian but would not answer other questions.

Until Thursday's arrests, police said, they had not heard of the suspects.

Wednesday afternoon, police arrived to search the small cottage. Speaking in Spanish and English, they asked how many people were inside the house, and Orlando Montano said six. The woman said police searched her room and Jose Montano's. Detectives took photos, handed Orlando Montano a piece of paper and left.

Jose Montano is being represented by Ron Gottlieb, an experienced lawyer in the public defender's office in Montgomery County. Allen Wolf, the head of that office, declined to comment.

Because immigration records are not public, ostensibly to protect the immigrants' privacy, it is difficult to assess how the federal immigration agencies handled the teens' cases.

Montano, who is from El Salvador, was apprehended last in April 2016, five months after his 16th birthday. Sanchez Milian, from Guatemala, was caught in August of that year, 12 days before he turned 18.

Border Patrol officials stopped both teens near McAllen, Texas, and detained them for less than the legal limit of 72 hours, then handed them over to HHS's Health and Human Services' Office for Refugee Resettlement, according to a federal official with direct knowledge of the case.

Under federal law, unaccompanied minors from Central America must be turned over to HHS for processing, which is meant to protect them from human trafficking and other dangers. HHS officials did not respond to repeated questions about the teens.

Jezic said he was told by Sanchez Milian's father that the teen was held in Texas for closer to 18 days. He did not know which agency held Sanchez Milian that long. The father said he paid for his son's flight to Maryland and picked him up at Baltimore-Washington International Marshall Airport, Jezic said.

Montano enrolled at Rockville High in August. Sanchez Milian followed one month later.

Jezic said that Sanchez Milian was "fleeing from gang threats and gang violence" in his home country and spent about four weeks traveling to the United States. He would like to seek asylum in this country.

Matthew Bourke, a spokesman for Homeland Security's U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, initially said that Sanchez Milian was issued a notice to appear in front of an immigration judge and that it was "waiting to be scheduled."

But Kathryn Mattingly, a spokeswoman for the immigration courts, which report to the Justice Department, said they had no record that ICE had filed a deportation claim.

Later, Bourke acknowledged that the agency had not, noting that there are "500 other cases ICE is responsible for in the Baltimore Area of Responsibility."

"He was a noncriminal alien who had been released from detention with no known gang affiliations," Bourke said in a statement. "The priority to prompt immigration court to review a case has been whether the alien has a criminal conviction or if they're in detention."

He also noted that "had Sanchez Milian appeared in immigration court prior to his criminal arrest, it is significantly unlikely a judge would have made any decision that would have allowed for his immediate removal."

Immigration officials now are pursuing Sanchez Milian's deportation and say they have asked local authorities to alert them if he were to make bond.

They sought to deport Montano before the rape allegations, filing a case in November, Mattingly said. The Baltimore Immigration Court scheduled Montano for an initial hearing on Jan. 24. That day, the court reset moved his hearing for to Dec. 11. Mattingly said the courts do not comment on an immigration judge's decisions.

Bourke would not comment on Montano's case because he is a minor.

Jezic said the public should keep in mind that defendants are innocent until proven guilty. "There has been a rush to judgment," the lawyer said.
 
I imagine this thread is a cesspool, but are we outraged over the thousands of rapes that occur in this country every year or just one isolated incident perpetrated by someone with brown skin?
I think we owe it to the girl to learn from this.  And there are a lot of learnings.

 
In the first 6 months of 2016, just in cities with populations of 100,000 or more, the total number of rape offenses reported to law enforcement was 40,631. That means there were roughly 222 incidents of rape reported per day in the U.S. over that span just in cities of that size - this doesn't even include the rest of the U.S population . Where has the national outrage been over all of those rape offense reports? When did Bill O'Reily and all the other oh so concerned conservatives spew their invective about each and every one of those? Why so much attention on just this one?

There were very likely 221 or more other people who were sexually assaulted March 16, 2017 - yet some are only concerned with this one. To score political points. Disgusting. Flat out disgusting.

 
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In the first 6 months of 2016, just in cities with populations of 100,000 or more, the total number of rape offenses reported to law enforcement was 40,631. That means there were roughly 222 incidents of rape reported per day in the U.S. over that span just in cities of that size - this doesn't even include the rest of the U.S population . Where has the national outrage been over all of those rape offense reports? When did Bill O'Reily and all the other oh so concerned conservatives spew their invective about each and every one of those? Why so much attention on just this one?

There were very likely 221 or more other people who were sexually assaulted March 16, 2017 - yet some are only concerned with this one. To score political points. Disgusting. Flat out disgusting.
How many times a day are illegal immigrants victimized in violent crime, or just ripped off, by people that know the victims are highly unlikely to go to the authorities because they are here illegally?

Obviously we can't possibly know the answer because unreported crimes can't be counted. But I feel very secure in saying that the answer is > 0.

 
In the first 6 months of 2016, just in cities with populations of 100,000 or more, the total number of rape offenses reported to law enforcement was 40,631. That means there were roughly 222 incidents of rape reported per day in the U.S. over that span just in cities of that size - this doesn't even include the rest of the U.S population . Where has the national outrage been over all of those rape offense reports? When did Bill O'Reily and all the other oh so concerned conservatives spew their invective about each and every one of those? Why so much attention on just this one?

There were very likely 221 or more other people who were sexually assaulted March 16, 2017 - yet some are only concerned with this one. To score political points. Disgusting. Flat out disgusting.
Our society is going this way in general. 

We get caught up with individual situations like this, that fit into our identity politics narrative, and we run with examples that suit our story and ignore information that doesn't.  Sadly both sides do it...this is just an example of the right doing it to justify policies harsh on immigrants, unjustifiably (based on the statistics).

 
Our society is going this way in general. 

We get caught up with individual situations like this, that fit into our identity politics narrative, and we run with examples that suit our story and ignore information that doesn't.  Sadly both sides do it...this is just an example of the right doing it to justify policies harsh on immigrants, unjustifiably (based on the statistics).
Yes.

People, in general, have extremely biased or just plain inaccurate perceptions about lots of stuff. This is especially true of crime.

 
Dickies said:
What is there to learn?
Well for starters:

  • Why doesn't the federal government and most states track crimes committed by illegal immigrants?  Doesn't the public have a right to know if illegal immigrants are more prone to crime than legal immigrants or natural born citizens?
  • There are reports out there suggesting that illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a much higher rate.  One such investigation revealed the following:
In the absence of comprehensive data, FoxNews.com examined a patchwork of local, state and federal statistics that revealed a wildly disproportionate number of murderers, rapists and drug dealers are crossing into the U.S. amid the wave of hard-working families seeking a better life. The explosive figures show illegal immigrants are three times as likely to be convicted of murder as members of the general population and account for far more crimes than their 3.5-percent share of the U.S. population would suggest. Critics say it is no accident that local, state and federal governments go to great lengths to keep the data under wraps.
  • Another report states that incarceration rates for murder and manslaughter were far higher for illegal aliens than for legal residents.
  • Illegal immigrants also appear to be much more involved in the drug world.  Of the more than 2,200 people who received federal sentences for drug possession in fiscal year 2014, almost three-quarters of them were illegal immigrants, according to new data from the United States Sentencing Commission.
  • The problem of unaccompanied minors coming into the US illegally has spiked in recent years, with 8,000 captured in 2008 versus a projected 75,000 in 2017.  Critics have sharply questioned why the United States has admitted more than 150,000 unaccompanied minors, mostly from Central America, in the past three years, crowding immigration courts and public schools.  The Unaccompanied Child Program budget has increased from $200 million in 2010 to a projected $1.3 billion in 2017.
  • When unaccompanied minors cross into the US they are basically here for good, as the above article shows happened here.  Both of the rapists in this case had been apprehended by Border Agents shortly after entering the US illegally.  The Border Agents had given the teens notices to appear in immigration court, but Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which initiates deportation proceedings in immigration courts, never filed charges.  They were merely handed over to HHS's Health and Human Services' Office for Refugee Resettlement.  Long story short - all someone under 18 has to do is make it over the border.  They aren't vetted with any significant background check, are handed over to HHS, and sent to wherever they say they have family.  And their deportation hearings aren't often scheduled for years, and there is practically no enforcement to make them show up.
The issue here isn't about legal immigration, which is why I highlighted illegal over and over.  No need for people to keep making points about how peaceful and hardworking legal immigrants are (or the entire universe of immigrants, which paints a very skewed pictured).  It's completely irrelevant to this case and this discussion. So far the best argument I have heard about why it is in our best interest not to crack down on illegal immigration is that it is too expensive.

 
on topic:

POLICE: LONG ISLAND MAN CHARGED IN SEX ASSAULT OF TODDLER, 2 STABBINGS WAS DEPORTED 4 TIMES

HEMPSTEAD, Long Island (WABC) -- 

Police have arrested a Long Island man who has been previously deported multiple times in connection with the sexual assault of a toddler and the stabbings of a woman outside a bar and the child's mother on the same night.

Nassau County police say 31-year-old Tommy Vladim Alvarado-Ventura, of Hempstead, was home with the 2-year-old daughter and 4-year-old son of an acquaintance, as well as another tenant who was watching the children while their mother was at work.

Authorities say the 2-year-old was heard crying as Alvarado-Ventura left the residence at 12:30 a.m. Tuesday, before he apparently headed to El Mariachi Loco bar on Fulton Avenue. There, he allegedly got into a fight around 2:20 a.m. that police say was unprovoked and with a female he did not know.

The 24-year-old woman with whom he was fighting reportedly tried to leave the bar, but police said he began punching and kicking her in the parking lot before stabbing her multiple times and slicing the inside of her mouth. Alvarado-Ventura allegedly fled, while the victim was rushed to the hospital with a collapsed lung.

After Alvarado-Ventura returned to the home, at 4:15 a.m., he and the acquaintance argued after police said the woman noticed severe injuries on her 2-year-old.

Police say Alvarado-Ventura punched the victim, then stabbed her. Despite her injuries, she was able to take her children to another area of the apartment and call police from a neighbor's once Alvarado-Ventura fell asleep.

When officers arrived a short time later, Alvarado-Ventura was taken into custody. He has reportedly a self-admitted gang member who has been deported four times and has an extensive criminal history, including possession of drugs, assault, resisting arrest, DWI and disorderly conduct.



 
Higgs said:
I think we owe it to the girl to learn from this.  And there are a lot of learnings.
Agreed.  We should learn that rape is ####### horrible and tragic and should never be politicized. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Thanks.

A few facts worth examining there - one is that the school was required to admit these two by federal law. An 18 year old, here illegally, was mandated to be admitted and was as a freshman. I'm surprised, I did not know that was federal law and I don't understand why or how that is.
This is complete BS regardless of race/ethnicity...putting an 18 year in the same class as 14 and 15 year olds is pure stupidity...way too much room for error...God forbid we worry about the all over the individual...

 
In the absence of comprehensive data, FoxNews.com examined a patchwork of local, state and federal statistics that revealed a wildly disproportionate number of murderers, rapists and drug dealers are crossing into the U.S. amid the wave of hard-working families seeking a better life. The explosive figures show illegal immigrants are three times as likely to be convicted of murder as members of the general population and account for far more crimes than their 3.5-percent share of the U.S. population would suggest. Critics say it is no accident that local, state and federal governments go to great lengths to keep the data under wraps.
:lol:

In the absence of comprehensive data is Fox's disclaimer that they really got nothing.

 
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Well for starters:

  • Why doesn't the federal government and most states track crimes committed by illegal immigrants?  Doesn't the public have a right to know if illegal immigrants are more prone to crime than legal immigrants or natural born citizens?
  • There are reports out there suggesting that illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a much higher rate.  One such investigation revealed the following:
  • Another report states that incarceration rates for murder and manslaughter were far higher for illegal aliens than for legal residents.
  • Illegal immigrants also appear to be much more involved in the drug world.  Of the more than 2,200 people who received federal sentences for drug possession in fiscal year 2014, almost three-quarters of them were illegal immigrants, according to new data from the United States Sentencing Commission.
  • The problem of unaccompanied minors coming into the US illegally has spiked in recent years, with 8,000 captured in 2008 versus a projected 75,000 in 2017.  Critics have sharply questioned why the United States has admitted more than 150,000 unaccompanied minors, mostly from Central America, in the past three years, crowding immigration courts and public schools.  The Unaccompanied Child Program budget has increased from $200 million in 2010 to a projected $1.3 billion in 2017.
  • When unaccompanied minors cross into the US they are basically here for good, as the above article shows happened here.  Both of the rapists in this case had been apprehended by Border Agents shortly after entering the US illegally.  The Border Agents had given the teens notices to appear in immigration court, but Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which initiates deportation proceedings in immigration courts, never filed charges.  They were merely handed over to HHS's Health and Human Services' Office for Refugee Resettlement.  Long story short - all someone under 18 has to do is make it over the border.  They aren't vetted with any significant background check, are handed over to HHS, and sent to wherever they say they have family.  And their deportation hearings aren't often scheduled for years, and there is practically no enforcement to make them show up.
The issue here isn't about legal immigration, which is why I highlighted illegal over and over.  No need for people to keep making points about how peaceful and hardworking legal immigrants are (or the entire universe of immigrants, which paints a very skewed pictured).  It's completely irrelevant to this case and this discussion. So far the best argument I have heard about why it is in our best interest not to crack down on illegal immigration is that it is too expensive.
Appreciate the response, but I still don't fully understand what there is to be learned by this case.  That National Review article shows that 3 of the 5 states in the report showed higher rates of murder and manslaughter, which also means 2 out of 5 were lower.  Picking 5 out of 50 states also doesn't tell the whole story.  The drug possession data has me scratching my head a little too.  If this is a matter of simple possession why are they receiving federal sentences.  My brother-in-law has been busted with marijuana a handful of times and even has a non-related misdemeanor on his record, but the cops just take his pot, make him smash his pipe and off he goes.

Let's just say illegal immigrants commit crime at a 75% higher rate than someone here legally.  What do we do about it?  Do we increase our police and border patrol budgets by 75% to fight the crime?  Do we increase ICE's budget by billions to deport illegals?  Do we build a massive wall?  Do we punish employers who are caught hiring illegal immigrants?  Do we legalize drugs to prevent the cartels from coming here illegally?

I'm just about as progressive as they come, but I take a more conservative approach to immigration.  It's a problem, but one pretend to have all the solutions to.  We have an immigration process and I think it is important for society to uphold that process.  The illegal immigrants obviously circumvented this process in one way or another, but deporting a family that has been here for a decade doesn't sit too well with me either.  Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any President, but he still gets blamed for our immigration problems, and it didn't solve them in any meaningful way.  IMHO there are much better uses of my tax dollars than hiring ICE agents to perpetually round up illegal immigrants.  Much like the war on terrorism, I feel our approach is to use a sledgehammer to smash the circle peg into the triangle hole.

 
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Right.

We owe no such thing to other rape victims. Just this girl.
I wonder if we owe anything to the women who are now scared to testify in domestic violence cases because they fear they might get deported.  Or to the future victims of the scumbags who will get to stay on the streets thanks to their fear.

Nah, probably still just this girl.

 
We should do everything we can to prevent this stuff no? Guess what could've prevented this one?
A tax increase to pay for construction and operation of the detention facilities needed to house undocumented immigrants, since the ones we have are already overfilled and that's why we have catch and release?

 
A tax increase to pay for construction and operation of the detention facilities needed to house undocumented immigrants, since the ones we have are already overfilled and that's why we have catch and release?
How about sending the illegal POS back where the #### he belongs?

 
Appreciate the response, but I still don't fully understand what there is to be learned by this case.  That National Review article shows that 3 of the 5 states in the report showed higher rates of murder and manslaughter, which also means 2 out of 5 were lower.  Picking 5 out of 50 states also doesn't tell the whole story.  The drug possession data has me scratching my head a little too.  If this is a matter of simple possession why are they receiving federal sentences.  My brother-in-law has been busted with marijuana a handful of times and even has a non-related misdemeanor on his record, but the cops just take his pot, make him smash his pipe and off he goes.

Let's just say illegal immigrants commit crime at a 75% higher rate than someone here legally.  What do we do about it?  Do we increase our police and border patrol budgets by 75% to fight the crime?  Do we increase ICE's budget by billions to deport illegals?  Do we build a massive wall?  Do we punish employers who are caught hiring illegal immigrants?  Do we legalize drugs to prevent the cartels from coming here illegally?

I'm just about as progressive as they come, but I take a more conservative approach to immigration.  It's a problem, but one pretend to have all the solutions to.  We have an immigration process and I think it is important for society to uphold that process.  The illegal immigrants obviously circumvented this process in one way or another, but deporting a family that has been here for a decade doesn't sit too well with me either.  Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any President, but he still gets blamed for our immigration problems, and it didn't solve them in any meaningful way.  IMHO there are much better uses of my tax dollars than hiring ICE agents to perpetually round up illegal immigrants.  Much like the war on terrorism, I feel our approach is to use a sledgehammer to smash the circle peg into the triangle hole.
Great post.  Fair minded people can disagree on the amount of money we should spend combating the problem, especially when there are so many other worthy things we can focus on.  I have changed my position on this over the past year.  I'm no longer in favor of spending a #### ton of money on the wall.  We should better secure the border, and I'd like to do it smartly and keep the costs manageable.  I'm also not in favor of deporting illegals who have been here for years, not committed crimes, and contributed to society.

But on the other hand I'm not for open borders either.  And I'm not for hiding the numbers or suppressing data on illegals.  And I'm not in favor of catch and release either.

 
A tax increase to pay for construction and operation of the detention facilities needed to house undocumented immigrants, since the ones we have are already overfilled and that's why we have catch and release?
Or perhaps some vetting of the kid when he was apprehended by Border Agents before relocating him to Maryland?  Better yet, how about we also look into his family in the US to make sure it is a suitable environment?

 
As I posted on page 1, I am right in the middle of this, as inside the situation as one can possibly be. I'm sorry I'm still not ready to participate in the discussion but I assure you when I am, there will be a lot to be learned from this. One thing I can guarantee is that this was not conensual as the rep of the one defendant is saying. I personally know the staff at the school who did her intake, and my fiancee personally knows medical personnel who work in the ER she was transported to. I do not know the girl or her family but I personally know some.of her friends and classmates and their families. I am intimately familiar with politics and government of my community, city of Rockville and Montgomery County as an active participant and at times office holder and resident for 49 years. Given that the victim is a recent legal immigrant latina who is not all that Americanized as yet its very likely she does not at this time have the best quality legal representation. I am trying to get that info from friends in the DA office. The lawyer implying consentual has at the very least a connection of some sort with an organization based out of this area called Casa de Maryland, who call themselves an immigrant advocacy group, but an objective deep dive into that group's purpose and motives might cause some here on the right to call them borderline subversive. There are very strong, deeply embedded, wealthy  and powerful factions and interests who are threatened by the potential outcome of this situation and there is legitimate concern on the part of factions that Im aligned with, who have fought these battles in the past, that if she is getting legal rep from an inferior source, or even a source inside her own community, that she and her family and possibly her representation may be pressured or coerced into presenting an inaccurate account of the situation when the time comes to adjudicate  all of this. More to follow...

 
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I never realized that sending someone to the ninth grade was a punishment for breaking the law...seems like a commonsense approach...

 
Thank you. We're actually closer to each other's POV than people might suppose. I have no trouble deporting actual criminals- after they serve whatever prison sentence they deserve. I can't get behind taking a murderer or a rapist and simply sending them over the border. That seems wrong to me.
I don't expect them to just dump the guy out in the population, hopefully cooler heads can prevail on this and Mexico (or whoever) will take them back and they serve sentences there.

but yes, actual criminals I agree with you on ( the level of crime we may differ though)

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sorry I missed this, but just to address: there's no hypocrisy because whatever the Obamas did that required Secret Service funding- including a $4 million trip- still allowed the Secret Service to stay within their allotted budget.  This is not true of Trump- the Secret Service requires approximately $60 million extra per year on top of the existing budget.

And honestly I don't care that much about that either.  If Melania and Barron are staying in NY so Barron doesn't have to change schools during the year I have zero issue with that, and I don't like when other people criticize it. The Mar-a-Lago stuff and his kids flying overseas all the time on Trump business is silly, but it's not that much money in the bigger picture.  My intent wasn't to criticize the Trump family's extravagant travel needs and the added cost.

My point was that the Secret Service request for that extra funding was denied, and that means the money has to come from the existing Secret Service budget ... which includes money for efforts to search for and assist missing and exploited minors. People here seem very concerned about how federal government policy might have endangered this poor 14 year old rape victim, so I was wondering why there weren't similarly concerned that the Trump travels + the OMB denial of extra Secret Service funds would likely hinder Secret Service efforts to rescue other children from kidnapping and sex trafficking and God knows what else. If you want to help our abused minors through changes in federal policy it seems like speaking out against the budget decision- or against the Trump travel that required the funds to be diverted- would be a good place to do it.
Great explanation....thank you 

I'm surprised money for that is in the secret service budget, probably some weird underhanded last second budget deal shenanigans no doubt

 
The lawyer implying consentual has at the very least a connection of some sort with an organization based out of this area called Casa de Maryland, who call themselves an immigrant advocacy group, but an objective deep dive into that group's purpose and motives might cause some here on the right to call them borderline subversive.
I used to be a member of CASA in college back in the 80's.  Definitely hard core Leftists.

 
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Im so sorry about the paragraphs. Im on my phone. Worried Id lose the text if I did anything except type. Will add breaks when home...

...this Casa de Maryland not same as CASA, I dont think...very heavily tied into National Council of La Raza, which is about one of the most anti-America latino groups one could encounter.

By the way, Im reading along periodically. What is the problem with folks on the left who constantly conflate the terms 'immigration/immigrant' with 'illegal immigration/illegal immigrant' it's both transparently agenda driven and intellectually dishonest, borderlne childish and if we are to have a reasonable conversation, it should just stop.

Please?

 
Higgs said:
Again, thanks for the article. I think I will take this real news over BB any day, because hey it has details, but again, thanks.

Point 2 - how Sanchez go there:


Sanchez Milian, from Guatemala, was caught in August of that year, 12 days before he turned 18.

Border Patrol officials stopped both teens near McAllen, Texas, and detained them for less than the legal limit of 72 hours, then handed them over to HHS's Health and Human Services' Office for Refugee Resettlement, according to a federal official with direct knowledge of the case.

Under federal law, unaccompanied minors from Central America must be turned over to HHS for processing, which is meant to protect them from human trafficking and other dangers. HHS officials did not respond to repeated questions about the teens.

Jezic said he was told by Sanchez Milian's father that the teen was held in Texas for closer to 18 days. He did not know which agency held Sanchez Milian that long. The father said he paid for his son's flight to Maryland and picked him up at Baltimore-Washington International Marshall Airport, Jezic said.

Montano enrolled at Rockville High in August. Sanchez Milian followed one month later.

Jezic said that Sanchez Milian was "fleeing from gang threats and gang violence" in his home country and spent about four weeks traveling to the United States. He would like to seek asylum in this country.

Matthew Bourke, a spokesman for Homeland Security's U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, initially said that Sanchez Milian was issued a notice to appear in front of an immigration judge and that it was "waiting to be scheduled."

But Kathryn Mattingly, a spokeswoman for the immigration courts, which report to the Justice Department, said they had no record that ICE had filed a deportation claim.

Later, Bourke acknowledged that the agency had not, noting that there are "500 other cases ICE is responsible for in the Baltimore Area of Responsibility."
"He was a noncriminal alien who had been released from detention with no known gang affiliations," Bourke said in a statement. "The priority to prompt immigration court to review a case has been whether the alien has a criminal conviction or if they're in detention."

He also noted that "had Sanchez Milian appeared in immigration court prior to his criminal arrest, it is significantly unlikely a judge would have made any decision that would have allowed for his immediate removal."

Immigration officials now are pursuing Sanchez Milian's deportation and say they have asked local authorities to alert them if he were to make bond.

They sought to deport Montano before the rape allegations, filing a case in November, Mattingly said. The Baltimore Immigration Court scheduled Montano for an initial hearing on Jan. 24. That day, the court reset moved his hearing for to Dec. 11. Mattingly said the courts do not comment on an immigration judge's decisions.
- So:

Sanchez makes to McAllen before being an adult.

Is held for 18 days. At which time he is an adult.

Gets out, his father flies him to Baltimore/MD.

He enrolls in school as a freshman. - Even though he is an ADULT.

ICE said they had a deportation order, but DOJ says no they did not.

5 months later he commits the crime.
This isn't a system.

 
Prince Myshkin said:
So why did you choose to make that point with a thread title of "illegal immigrants rape 14 year old in Maryland high school"? 

You post a thread like that..."US should expand legal immigration but crack down on illegal immigration" and you would probably get very few arguments from those on the political left.  Instead you go with "illegal immigrants are child raping monsters" and turn people off immediately.  
because he eats from Hannity's trough.

 
Zow said:
But you realize the number of victims don't decrease. They're just displaced to a country you likely don't care about. 
Have you even considered that the rapist didn't respect our laws due to his ease of illegally entering this country.  Saying that because he raped, he was bound to rape is ludicrous. 

 
It's no different than liberals politicizing every mass shooting to further their beliefs on gun control.
I'm glad you're willing to see the connection here. I saw it myself a while back, and that was the point that I shied away from gun control arguments I had made previously because I realized they were all based on anecdotes. Every time there was a mass shooting, people like me (and even President Obama) would wave our hands in the air and say "when are we going to do something about all of these guns?" And in cases like your OP, people like you wave your hands and say "when are we going to do something about all these illegal immigrants?" In both instances we're relying on emotion and anecdotes. 

 
Im so sorry about the paragraphs. Im on my phone. Worried Id lose the text if I did anything except type. Will add breaks when home...

...this Casa de Maryland not same as CASA, I dont think...very heavily tied into National Council of La Raza, which is about one of the most anti-America latino groups one could encounter.

By the way, Im reading along periodically. What is the problem with folks on the left who constantly conflate the terms 'immigration/immigrant' with 'illegal immigration/illegal immigrant' it's both transparently agenda driven and intellectually dishonest, borderlne childish and if we are to have a reasonable conversation, it should just stop.

Please?
Wtf? No one apologizes around here. 

 
Zow said:
But you realize the number of victims don't decrease. They're just displaced to a country you likely don't care about. 
Dude get off that I care about Venezuelans and Americans equally high horse. 

 
Dude get off that I care about Venezuelans and Americans equally high horse. 
I don't think it's that high of a horse.  It's just, you know, general human decency. 

ETA: It's also besides the point because, at worse, it illustrates the logical fallacy of your argument that a crime would have for sure been prevented if this guy would have been deported. 

 
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I don't think it's that high of a horse.  It's just, you know, general human decency. 
Easy for you to say when these people aren't living in the same area as you, or going to the same school as your children. You know who has to deal with all the dangerous risks and lowering of wages that come with illegal immigrants? Poor people.

You, a person with money, think you're a better person than someone else because you have money and they don't. That is what this comes down to.

 
Have you even considered that the rapist didn't respect our laws due to his ease of illegally entering this country.  Saying that because he raped, he was bound to rape is ludicrous. 
Your position may make sense if we're talking about some sort of regulatory offense (e.g. driving on a suspended license, tax fraud, etc.). Instead, we're talking about probably the second most heinous/violent of crimes. 

Obviously I'm in a unique position to actually interact with lots of people charged with rape.  Personally, I place them into three categories: 1) the not so bad but more so stupid ones where consent truly is blurred and grey (e.g. girl is super hammered, that weird breakup sex, consensual sex with a post-pubescent minor); 2)  the actual innocent ones where the allegations are made by somebody with an ulterior motive (e.g. psycho ex alleges rape after a breakup, one parent makes false allegations against the other in an effort to obtain sole custody); 3) the truly evil ones who need to be locked up forever and would totally crawl through your daughter's bedroom window (e.g. the guy you meet where, to borrow a phrase from my favorite horror novel, has just "deadlights" for eyes). 

While I don't know a ton about the specific allegations in the OP's linked case, the way its being discussed it sure seems like he'd fit into my third category.  So, in that case, I don't think there's any sort of correlation or causation between his being permitted to stay here after entering illegally and his decision to rape an innocent 14 year old girl.  I also don't find my statement to be ludicrous, even with there being obviously identifiable extraneous factors to why people commit crimes and that predisposition is probably not likely in 99.99% of cases. 

 
Easy for you to say when these people aren't living in the same area as you, or going to the same school as your children. You know who has to deal with all the dangerous risks and lowering of wages that come with illegal immigrants? Poor people.

You, a person with money, think you're a better person than someone else because you have money and they don't. That is what this comes down to.
Woah

 
Easy for you to say when these people aren't living in the same area as you, or going to the same school as your children. You know who has to deal with all the dangerous risks and lowering of wages that come with illegal immigrants? Poor people.

You, a person with money, think you're a better person than someone else because you have money and they don't. That is what this comes down to.
Evidence for the bolded, please.

 
Have you even considered that the rapist didn't respect our laws due to his ease of illegally entering this country.
If that sort of causation existed, it seems odd that while the illegal immigrant population in the US was doubling, the crime rate was being cut in half.

 

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