Informal offer accepted... offer revoked... (1 Viewer)

[Rev]

A somewhat common situation: An owner proposes a deal (informally over email) and pulls back after I accept it.

What are my options

A) Tell him that I refuse to negotiate with owners like this

B) Tell him I'm frustrated with this situation but hope we can work out a deal

C) Cut off all communication

D) Ask the commish to step in with a formal rebuke

E) Other

Which option would you opt for?

NOTE: This post has been edited to reflect the more general nature of the scenario, rather than any episode in particular.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Accept the fact that you're SOL. There was no formal offer.

 

[CEO of the Barefoots]

Take a pill and understand that your phrasing of the situation indicated that it was informal and likely in discussion stage.

If the situation is different than that then I didn't get it from your post.

 

[code]

I never commit via email...even if I like a deal I'll say "sounds pretty good, why don't you submit the offer on MFL and I'll take a closer look later today"...

 

[code]

Also, should've been a poll

 

[Team Legacy]

No trade is EVER final until the deal is sent thru the website. People get cold feet on the contract table all the time.

Nothing to see here...

 

[fruity pebbles]

I hate that too. Don't send me an offer then after I say I'm interested, come back with an I'll think about it line. I'd go with option B though if you liked the deal.

 

[phthalatemagic]

option A

Give these people an inch, they take a mile. Nip it in the bud. FF negotiations aren't rocket science you know

 

[Yitbos69]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

 

[Rev]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

 

[Rev]

I never commit via email...even if I like a deal I'll say "sounds pretty good, why don't you submit the offer on MFL and I'll take a closer look later today"...

:X Helpful. Thanks.

 

[fruity pebbles]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

Yeah, that would definitely irritate me. I might just cut him off.

 

[KING]

is this even the right forum? next time how about a poll.

 

[Yitbos69]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

so you accepted the above deal....and then he backed out. Correct? What are your league rules on trading? Can they be made via email?

 

[jurb26]

I would say the person you are in discussion with could be more diplomatic, but the bottom line is it really isn't a trade offer until sent via the league site. I can see why this would be frustrating.

 

[PatsWillWin]

The correct reponse is already posted here - NEVER accept a deal via e-mail.

The suggestion above is pretty much exactly what I do:

"Can you offer that up on the MFL site and I'll get to it soon?"

Something like that.

 

[TheAristocrat]

You get...NOTHING. You lose!

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I was just on the other end of this kind of deal. I just threw something (an offer I guess you could say) out to a league-mate. He saw it, liked it and wanted to move on. I looked at it again and realized it would have been a dumb move for me and I backed out.

I felt a little bad about it, but sometimes you are brainstorming and really don't completely get your head around a deal until it comes time to pull the trigger.

Wasn't a bait-and-switch on my part, just an "upon further review" situation.

I apologized (and was sincere), but don't feel TOO bad about it. Seems like you have to have the right to change your mind until the deal is final.

 

[Sabertooth]

The owner who proposed a deal to me (informally over email) has now pulled back after I accepted it. He's now "thinking it over" and talking as if I proposed a real stinker to him. I'm thinking he'll come back and ask me for more, now that he knows I liked the original deal. That's my freegin pet peeve in fantasy.

I really like this trade, so I'm debating my options:

A) Tell him that I refuse to negotiate with bait & switch terrorists

B) Tell him I'm frustrated with this situation but hope we can work out a deal

C) Cut off all communication and put a horse head in his bed

D) Ask the commish to step in with a formal rebuke

E) Other

Which option would you opt for?

I'll select F) Go get yourself a nice piece of ###.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

The correct reponse is already posted here - NEVER accept a deal via e-mail.The suggestion above is pretty much exactly what I do:"Can you offer that up on the MFL site and I'll get to it soon?"Something like that.

I accept deals via PM or email all the time. Of course, the deal is never final until posted & confirmed by both parties on our league's message board. But we still negotiate and finalize terms over PM. That just makes sense, otherwise you can't have a discussion. Heck, sometimes we negotiate deals over the phone.

 

[5Rings]

I have a guy in one of my leagues that is famous for that. He'll bug the hell out of you via IM, PM, and email about a deal...and when you finally relent/accept, he always wants to add to it when it gets to the MFL stage of acceptance.

What I do with him is simple--whether he starts via IM, PM, or email, I simply say "Send me an offer via MFL and I'll counter".

Its not worth getting worked up over, IMO.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Your league rules need to take this into account. If they already do one way or the other, then there's nothing to complain about. If your league rules don't take this into account, then they need to.

In my league trades can be finalized one of two ways:

1) GM 1 submits trade proposal through website and GM 2 accepts it

or

2) GM 1 emails trade proposal to Commish, Commish emails GM 2 to ask him to verify the deal and GM 2 emails back Commish verifying the deal.

 

[Cixelsyd]

Your league rules should cover this...

While using the league tools is always the safest way... people may not be in position to use the internet depending on where they are... or have access to the site...

As commsih I require confirmation from both parties on the deal... usually by email or a call, if they cannot get to the site... though our site is used in 99% of the transactions...

As for what you should do, you should provide the board with details, not just summaries...

ie...

I sent an email talking informally about interest in these players, offering these players...

He sent an email asking about player B...

I sent an email offering Player A and Player B for Player C

He sent an email accepting the trade...

He then backed out later...

is much different from...

I sent an email talking informally about interest in these players, offering these players...

He sent an email saying that sounded good

I asked if it was a trade and he sent an email saying no, I want more...

...

So what really happened?

If he agreed, then backed out... thats a personal decision for you... but bottom line is, don't handcuff yourself... if he has a player you want, then you just have to be aware how he is, and use the tools of the site to keep from getting jacked...

I was working a 3 way deal one time, without the other 2 knowing about it... but then I let slip to one of them that I was working another deal and he went around me... that was my fault, he just took advantage... Of course I took pride in knocking him out of the playoffs in the first round... So remember, what goes around comes around and we all get paid back one way or another.

 

[Pipes]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

That's technically not an offer... it sounds like he's just looking for some ideas and threw one out there. If he said I'll trade you X & Y for Z & P you'd have a legit gripe but in the context he put it in it's definitely a question not a statement of fact.Semantics I know but when dealing with pm's and what not this kind of thing happens all the time.

 

[ruelvis]

learn your lesson about formal vs informal, learn your leaguemate and apply it to future encounters.

one suggestion might be to NOT reply to his email if it includes an offer you agree with or want to make a minor tweak to. simply go to the website and make the FORMAL & OFFICAL offer to him with a note saying when the offer expires. by doing that u are essentially saying 'yes' but you won't be waiting longer than you want for a final decision to be made. YOU set the timeline, not him.

 

[AB in DC]

I'm thinking he'll come back and ask me for more, now that he knows I liked the original deal. That's my freegin pet peeve in fantasy.

Why don't you wait and see what he actually does, instead of getting pissed off for something that hasn't happened?There are lots of reasons to back out from an informal trade discussion...wait and find out what they are before you do anything else.

 

[Biabreakable]

Just recently I was on the other side of this.

I am talking to my friend and told him to trade me one of his players. We talk some more as I keep asking him what he wants from me for that player and established a pretty solid offer (price). I said ok I can live with that and then sent my friend the offer officialy over the league site. He told me he would think about it and talk to me the next day.

The next day during lunch I went and looked to see if he had accepted the deal or not. He hadn't yet. Then I started looking more closely at my team if he did accept the trade. I was seeing myself as being deeper and perhaps slightly better at one position while being much weaker at another position if the deal went through.

I began weighing more seriously the benifits of this trade compared to where I allready am as well as the other things I would be giving up. After thinking about it more I decided that the deal was not really in my best interest even though I find it acceptable in a vacuum. So I pulled the offer.

Later that day I explained in detail as best as I could the multiple reasons why I removed the deal from the table. I also explained that the deal was reasonable enough that if he really wants to do that trade I might be willing to go through with it still.

Rev your trade partner might be looking at this in similar ways as what I have just explained. He may be very very close to making that deal with you as is. But has reservations for some reason. I think you should try to find out what those reasons are as you both may be able to find somthing mutually agreeable.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

That's technically not an offer... it sounds like he's just looking for some ideas and threw one out there. If he said I'll trade you X & Y for Z & P you'd have a legit gripe but in the context he put it in it's definitely a question not a statement of fact.Semantics I know but when dealing with pm's and what not this kind of thing happens all the time.

Looks like an offer to me. It looks like Rev made an offer, the other owner made a counter-offer, and Rev accepted.If league rules say it's not a done deal until it goes through the league website there's nothing Rev can do about it. But it does look to me like he's got a valid gripe about the other owner's form.

If I were Rev I'd tell the other owner that any future proposals by either party should be made through the league site to avoid this kind of miscommunication going forward. (That wouldn't be my general policy with everybody. Just with this one guy.)

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Just recently I was on the other side of this.

I am talking to my friend and told him to trade me one of his players. We talk some more as I keep asking him what he wants from me for that player and established a pretty solid offer (price). I said ok I can live with that and then sent my friend the offer officialy over the league site. He told me he would think about it and talk to me the next day.

That's not an acceptance by him.It's not bad form to revoke an offer before the other party accepts it. Revoking the offer after it's accepted is what's lame.

 

[GregR_2]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

That's technically not an offer... it sounds like he's just looking for some ideas and threw one out there. If he said I'll trade you X & Y for Z & P you'd have a legit gripe but in the context he put it in it's definitely a question not a statement of fact.Semantics I know but when dealing with pm's and what not this kind of thing happens all the time.

Looks like an offer to me. It looks like Rev made an offer, the other owner made a counter-offer, and Rev accepted.If league rules say it's not a done deal until it goes through the league website there's nothing Rev can do about it. But it does look to me like he's got a valid gripe about the other owner's form.

If I were Rev I'd tell the other owner that any future proposals by either party should be made through the league site to avoid this kind of miscommunication going forward. (That wouldn't be my general policy with everybody. Just with this one guy.)

I don't think you or I or Rev can say that it was an official offer or whether he was sounding him out. For all any of us know he's negotiating with 3 teams and finding the best offers before deciding which to accept officially.My point is that none of us, Rev included, have any right to speak for the other owner as to whether he was making an official offer or not. A commish should never accept an owner's claim as binding that another owner agreed to a trade. Whether or not a league allows email trades doesn't change that. Just because email is allowed should never remove the necessity of both owners independently confirming their agreement.

To do otherwise just opens your league up to potentially worse problems than this.

 

[BigJim®]

I'm not sure what you mean characterizing it as informal. My sense is it came off as an inquiry "Would you consider trading X for Y" type deal. If that's the case, there's not much you can or should do other than use it as a learning experience. Generally speaking, either an offer is firm or it is something else. If it is unclear what it is, I would typically ask the guy "Is that a firm offer?" before laying my cards on the table.

 

[slayer666]

No trade is EVER final until the deal is sent thru the website. People get cold feet on the contract table all the time. Nothing to see here...

Talk is cheap. Hitting the accept button on a trade offered via the league software is the only way a deal is ever "official".

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't think you or I or Rev can say that it was an official offer or whether he was sounding him out.

We don't have the exact transcript. But Rev characterized the other owner as having said, "Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this [other possibility] instead[?]"So the other owner (going by Rev's wording) explicitly acknowledged that Rev made an offer. And he responds, basically, 'I reject that offer but how about this one?' That's a counter-offer.(On the other hand, Rev may be taking liberties in re-constructing the other owner's wording . . . )

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I never commit via email...even if I like a deal I'll say "sounds pretty good, why don't you submit the offer on MFL and I'll take a closer look later today"...

 

[Pictus Cat]

League rules address what's official (which you said this isn't official.)

Now you are working on the people side trade negotiation. It sucks for misunderstandings during negotiations. Express what you thought he would do if you accepted the offer. Be happy your establishing how you can communicate better with this owner in the future. If you make it clear with no hard feelings, you may have established a trade partner that sees you as approachable with a clear way to communicate.

May I recommend official offers only, with comments and links to player information and/or to support why you think it is a good trade?

 

[LuckyOne]

The first two words of your post are "Informal offer". It was just that, informal. Until the offer is officially proposed, I don't see how you can complain.

 

[Rev]

You get...NOTHING. You lose!

I'll select F) Go get yourself a nice piece of ###.

Quotes like these are the reason I'm all for restricting this board to people who are 18 years of age or older. You just have to feel for these obnoxious kids who come on line and made such idiots of themselves. They need mentoring, guidance, tough love, and prayer... not a private room with a computer.

 

[fatness]

Why don't you wait and see what he actually does, instead of getting pissed off for something that hasn't happened?

Agreed. The guy probably got another offer involving the same player(s) and is thinking over both offers. It happens.

 

[supermark_28]

How was his email phrased

Offer:

Player A

for

Player B

or was it more like would you take player A for player B

In one of my leagues we do plenty of trading via email. We all know each other and it has never been a problem of people backing out of trades.

If your league rules state that the web site is the only way to trade then more on. If there is no such rule I would take it to the commish if it was a clear offer!

His email was like this:Sorry, I don't like the offer you proposed to me, but how about this one instead:

Players X and Y

for

Players Z and P

That's technically not an offer... it sounds like he's just looking for some ideas and threw one out there. If he said I'll trade you X & Y for Z & P you'd have a legit gripe but in the context he put it in it's definitely a question not a statement of fact.Semantics I know but when dealing with pm's and what not this kind of thing happens all the time.

Looks like an offer to me. It looks like Rev made an offer, the other owner made a counter-offer, and Rev accepted.If league rules say it's not a done deal until it goes through the league website there's nothing Rev can do about it. But it does look to me like he's got a valid gripe about the other owner's form.

If I were Rev I'd tell the other owner that any future proposals by either party should be made through the league site to avoid this kind of miscommunication going forward. (That wouldn't be my general policy with everybody. Just with this one guy.)

I gotta agree w/ Maurile on this one,looks like he counteroffered and you accepted.

Obviously a lot depends on your specific league guidelines in regards to trades and

how they're completed but Rev I'd be a little annoyed myself. I'm in a keeper league

w/ my brother and he always makes "informal" offers,when he senses that I like it

he backs away from it. I guess going forward,let them know,when they're serious

about talking deals to let you know.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

You get...NOTHING. You lose!

I'll select F) Go get yourself a nice piece of ###.

Quotes like these are the reason I'm all for restricting this board to people who are 18 years of age or older. You just have to feel for these obnoxious kids who come on line and made such idiots of themselves. They need mentoring, guidance, tough love, and prayer... not a private room with a computer.

Prejudge much? You know these guys' age?These guys are likely responding the fact that none of your multiple choice options were along the lines of "The other party and I did not enter a formal agreement according to league rules, so I should just get over it." All you gave were flavors of "I've suffered an injustice and must somehow punish the offender". Those guys just used a little more colorful way of needling you about it. I could be wrong, but you seem to be taking a lot of things as some sort of personal affront (, Francis)

 

[-OZ-]

You get...NOTHING. You lose!

I'll select F) Go get yourself a nice piece of ###.

Quotes like these are the reason I'm all for restricting this board to people who are 18 years of age or older. You just have to feel for these obnoxious kids who come on line and made such idiots of themselves. They need mentoring, guidance, tough love, and prayer... not a private room with a computer.

I think Sabertooth's advice is sound.

 

[Sabertooth]

You get...NOTHING. You lose!

I'll select F) Go get yourself a nice piece of ###.

Quotes like these are the reason I'm all for restricting this board to people who are 18 years of age or older. You just have to feel for these obnoxious kids who come on line and made such idiots of themselves. They need mentoring, guidance, tough love, and prayer... not a private room with a computer.

I was serious. You are way too uptight about this "informal" trade. It's April Rev.

 

[Sabertooth]

You get...NOTHING. You lose!

I'll select

F) Go get yourself a nice piece of ###.

Quotes like these are the reason I'm all for restricting this board to people who are 18 years of age or older. You just have to feel for these obnoxious kids who come on line and made such idiots of themselves. They need mentoring, guidance, tough love, and prayer... not a private room with a computer.

Prejudge much? You know these guys' age?These guys are likely responding the fact that none of your multiple choice options were along the lines of "The other party and I did not enter a formal agreement according to league rules, so I should just get over it." All you gave were flavors of "I've suffered an injustice and must somehow punish the offender". Those guys just used a little more colorful way of needling you about it.

I could be wrong, but you seem to be taking a lot of things as some sort of personal affront (, Francis )

He missed the Fletch reference. Methinks the Stripes one misses the mark as well.