Interesting Move By Denver (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

The Saints hold the #2 overall pick. A cornerstone, franchise player is available to them. For a minute forget the R. Leaf, A. Smith, C. Enis and other NFL busts. Forget your working knowledge of hindsight. Just for discussion sake agree the #2 is a legit player. That same player is not available this year at 7, 8, 9 nor is his value recouped by pairing picks 15 and 22 or 12 and 31, for example. I have seen the trade value and pick chart. I worked with the damn thing for a couple years. It is a tool used by a GM and or coach to augment their decision. It is not the end all be all.

Not in the habit of quoting myself but...For the sake of discussion and shedding some light on the topic at hand through personal experience as someone that worked in a scouting department and as a player rep I made this point during my reply.

It is VERY EASY to use hindsight and build an argument for and or against what I wrote. For example, I could dig up every Top 5 pick that had a career longer than the NFL average for his position; that never spent time on the injury report; contributed to the team and had an amazing ROI both on and off the field for the franchise. I could then do the same for players between picks 5-10; 11-15 and so on...Not sure it adds much value, as I forfeited the use of that maxim in the original reply.

An NFL team does not have the luxury of hindsight and to prove a point on why Madden trades do not work in the real football world I suggested the topic be brought along with the same limitation. More picks do not equal more value in an NFL trade. You are not increases your odds of finding the next great player by trading your #2 overall and picking up a pair of picks resting between 15-32. You are decreasing your chances or, at least, that is how a franchise looks at the equation.

Let me play devil's advocate for a second and make a case for trading the #2 overall pick for two mid/late 1st round picks. The most obvious issue is the high cost of signing a top pick. While that player is expected to be able to play well, and probably will barring injury, he's still a rookie with no NFL experience. On the other hand, a player drafted at #15 is going to expect a much lower bonus and yet should also be very talented. A late first round pick is also good because there are players who slide to the 2nd round because the good teams with late first rounds picks usually have specific needs they have to fill other than just taking BPA. Take a look at some old drafts at drafthistory.com and look at the players take after pick #25.

Of course, all of this depends on the needs of the team and how much depth there is in the draft but it can make sense to trade a high pick for multiple 1st rounders.

 

[Footballhead]

Gonzalez was picked in the 11th, I doubt Vernon Davis who has more buzz to him will be there after 10. I can only think the Broncos are targeting a RB, Maroney perhaps. There more than one team that runs the zone blocking right now, Denver has been finding it more and more difficult to get their type of running backs in the later rounds.

 

[WhoDat]

Of course, all of this depends on the needs of the team and how much depth there is in the draft but it can make sense to trade a high pick for multiple 1st rounders.

cstu, I do not disagree with anything you wrote. This year's class, though, has some absolutle physical monsters available. The early expectation is that Bush is going to rate out as one of the highest graded players...ever. V. Davis, Hawk, Williams and Ferguson are solid options also. Thus, I do not see any of the top 5 teams bypassing the value of one of those players in an attempt to address several needs and reduce the economic stress of the situation. BPA with a top tier pick is more equitable versus later pick addressing a positional need. To paraphrase Gil Brandt, who was instrumental in building Landry's Cowboy teams, if I keep taking guys that fill a need but aren't difference makers, we'll never win any games. Very good counter point, though.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I really don't see Denver trading up to draft a RB. First, all indications were that the top RBs were going to slide anyway. If they wanted to go that way either Maroney, White, or both was going to be there when picked at 22. Second, why would they invest a high number 1 pick on a RB when they have consistently been able to plug in 4th-6th round picks and cast-offs that run for 1200+ yards? If they wanted a big name, big money RB they would have paid Portis.

WR, OT, or maybe even LB all seem to make more sense there. I also wouldn't expect them to make a move a TE early (barring an unexpected slide), as I think they feel pretty comfortable with Dukes.

 

[SaintArnold]

I would be suprised if the Broncos didn't draft a RB, but it will be in the later rounds.

The Broncos two glaring needs are wide receiver and a stud pass rusher. I like the mocks that have them drafting Kiwaunaka (sp?) and Holmes or Jackson with their 1st rounders.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Id say your rating system is incredibly biased to your point.

Vick's career winning percentage is well over 60% isnt it? And the top $$$ draw in the NFL?

Leonard Davis isnt a "bust", hes an excellent guard playing out of position at LT, where hes playing alright.

Gerard Warren just signed a huge deal to stay with the Broncos. Calling anyone drafted by the Browns under Butch Davis a "bust" is a disservice. That coaching staff was a nightmare.

Way Way too early to judge Carr

Way way WAY too early to judge Mike Williams.

Andre Johnson has shown he can be a dominant NFL WR when he gets the ball. Unfortunately he draws triple coverage with no other threat on the field and Carr is usually on his back.

Newman played pretty well last year.

Of the 15 you listed, 2 are obvious "Busts" (Harrington and Rogers)...and you might notice a slight connection between the two. I think its unfair to even use Rogers in the comparision, as his production has severely been affected by drug problems and injuries. Where he was drafted had no affect on his personality.

A better comparision might be to look at the draft from like 94-99 or so. All of those guys have had time to really establish what they are.

Well, the standard was that these guys were supposed to be difference makers. Out of all of those guys I counted 4 (that included Vick). I'll even throw in Newman and that gives us 5, or one third of the 15 top 5 picks.Everyone else has not been a difference maker for the team that drafted them so far. Their huge salaries and cap numbers have not been worth even close to the production that they have provided.

The Saints hold the #2 overall pick. A cornerstone, franchise player is available to them. For a minute forget the R. Leaf, A. Smith, C. Enis and other NFL busts. Forget your working knowledge of hindsight. Just for discussion sake agree the #2 is a legit player. That same player is not available this year at 7, 8, 9 nor is his value recouped by pairing picks 15 and 22 or 12 and 31, for example. I have seen the trade value and pick chart. I worked with the damn thing for a couple years. It is a tool used by a GM and or coach to augment their decision. It is not the end all be all.

Not in the habit of quoting myself but...For the sake of discussion and shedding some light on the topic at hand through personal experience as someone that worked in a scouting department and as a player rep I made this point during my reply.

It is VERY EASY to use hindsight and build an argument for and or against what I wrote. For example, I could dig up every Top 5 pick that had a career longer than the NFL average for his position; that never spent time on the injury report; contributed to the team and had an amazing ROI both on and off the field for the franchise. I could then do the same for players between picks 5-10; 11-15 and so on...Not sure it adds much value, as I forfeited the use of that maxim in the original reply.

An NFL team does not have the luxury of hindsight and to prove a point on why Madden trades do not work in the real football world I suggested the topic be brought along with the same limitation. More picks do not equal more value in an NFL trade. You are not increases your odds of finding the next great player by trading your #2 overall and picking up a pair of picks resting between 15-32. You are decreasing your chances or, at least, that is how a franchise looks at the equation.

And that is precisely what I am taking issue with. I do believe that most franchises would agree with that view. I do not. I believe that 9 times out of 10 a team drafting at the top would be better served drafting in spots 15 and 22 rather than at spot 4. A team drafting in the top 5 has a bad team. They need more than one player to turn things around anyway. If they spend a large portion of their cap on one player and he can not put the team on his back, the team is going to be drafting at the top for several years after that as well. Those teams would be better served moving down in the draft if they can pickup more 1st or 2nd round picks while doing so.Just from a quick look, it looks like the 15th and 22nd picks in the draft would cost about the same as one of the top 5 picks. So a bust at the top costs you twice as much as a bust of one of those picks. Are the odds twice as good that you will get a difference maker in the top 5 than in those middle first round picks? I'm not so sure that it is.

I respect and appreciate the fact that you are speaking from your experience and expertise, but I happen to believe that history shows that your dollars can buy you more difference makers later in the first round than they can in the top picks.

 

[Kit Fisto]

I would be suprised if the Broncos didn't draft a RB, but it will be in the later rounds.

The Broncos two glaring needs are wide receiver and a stud pass rusher. I like the mocks that have them drafting Kiwaunaka (sp?) and Holmes or Jackson with their 1st rounders.

Neither Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson are future studs, #1 WRs however, IMHO.

 

[Toads]

This trade is just beginning to be examined by the guys that examine trades.

The consensus is that Dem Froncos are looking to trade up and have an option for a top three QB.

Interesting stuff but it makes long term sense to groom Jake's successor. To get there they need a top 6-10 draft position with a #5 being preferred.

The 15th and the 22ed in exchange for the #5?

Works for me.

 

[ComebackKurt]

There are certain level of players you do not trade yourself out of getting. These are the athlete/football player/difference makers. A draft only has a finite number of these players. Usually, they are the top 3-5 picks. This year the draft has several at unique positions, MLB & TE, as well as a couple of usual suspects, OL; DE; RB and QB. QB is up for debate depending on your feelings about the individual players but let's stay on course.

No team is going to move out of one of those spots for more picks especially if those picks are A.) Each out of the Top 10 B) Each out of the Top 15 C.) Each out of the Top 20. The players available at those picks, which is in theory, are good football players that meet a positional need as compared to the blue chip players that change the entire dynamic of a team and or game. There are busts and diamonds in the rough but hindsight is always 20-20. On the front end this is how talent and picks are evaluated.

The Saints hold the #2 overall pick. A cornerstone, franchise player is available to them. For a minute forget the R. Leaf, A. Smith, C. Enis and other NFL busts. Forget your working knowledge of hindsight. Just for discussion sake agree the #2 is a legit player. That same player is not available this year at 7, 8, 9 nor is his value recouped by pairing picks 15 and 22 or 12 and 31, for example. I have seen the trade value and pick chart. I worked with the damn thing for a couple years. It is a tool used by a GM and or coach to augment their decision. It is not the end all be all.

Basic premise and or feeling is that you draft difference makers every chance you get. Those players win games for you. Football players fill out your roster and compliment the effort. The Saints risk losing their chance to draft a difference maker the minute they find themselves drafting at a point outside of the range that would see them net Williams, Ferguson, Hawk, Davis and or Bush. That is not a slight against someone like M. Huff or anyone else in the draft. Those 5 players along with 1, 2 or 3 of the QB are the best football players in the draft.

Thus, the Saints are only going to forfeit that opportunity to take a once in a 10 year prospect by asking for a hell of a lot in return. Could the Saints move down to the 4th, 5th or 6th spot? Yes, that is possible and the asking price will not be as high. Will they drop beyond that point without commanding a king's ransom? Absolutely not. Two mid to late first rounders DO NOT EQUAL the football player available with the #2 overall pick. This is not Madden nor is it a dynasty FF draft.

However, a polished professional player would add tremendous value to such a trade. That player is a known quality that can contribute immediately, while filling a positional need and freeing up another draft pick. That is the only way a team like Houston and or the Saints trade beyond the 5th or 6th pick. If they can get a truck load of draft picks and a good/solid player in a package deal, then they consider moving down. If it is just a series of picks, there is no way I see it happen.

Look at what it took the Giants to get E. Manning from the Chargers. The Chargers stayed at the very top of the draft and received more picks from the Giants. Some precedent was set with that move. It is not unrealistic to think the Saints are asking for a player along with a pick(s) to drop beyond a certain point, which I would identify as the 6th overall pick.

Actually, there's some evidence that the top players in the draft are not worth the huge contracts that they receive and are more of a detriment to the teams that draft them. So I would possibly dispute the notion that those top picks are so golden. Let's just look at the top 5 picks from 2001-2003 (I think this is fair since it allows us to evaluate how guys have panned out).

Michael Vick (Arguably panned out although still overate IMO)

Leonard Davis (Bust)

Gerard Warren (Bust)

Justin Smith (Solid player)

Tomlinson (Stud)

David Carr (Bust)

Julius Peppers (Stud)

Joey Harrington (Bust)

Mike Williams (Bust)

Quentin Jammer (Highly overpaid at minimum, possibly a bust)

Carson Palmer (Stud)

Charles Rodgers (Bust)

Andre Johnson (Has shown flashes, but overall average production and overpaid)

Dewayne Robertson (I'll be honest, can't say here. I'd say solid but overpaid)

Terence Newman (Overated and overpaid)

Out of those 15 guys, I'd say 4 are difference makers, 3 or 4 are solid players and the rest are absolute busts. That's a lot of cash to guys that don't turn out to be difference makers. I would imagine the potential to score a stud in the top 5 probably is higher than any other grouping of 5 picks, but I doubt that it's that much higher than other positions in the first round and the risk is a LOT higher.

I like your thought process, but even as these 3 to 5 guys are DIFFERENCE MAKERS, the tell all end all is that they haven't brought their respective teams any hardware!! I have always been of the thought process that more picks improve your chances of hitting on a SUPERBOWL WINNER, not just a difference maker and these players are sprinkled throughout the draft in every round. Of these players how many have superbowl ringss? ZERO How many have even been to the SB? ONE How many have been to the playoffs? ONLY EIGHT of 15(with the team that drafted them) So what do these HIGH picks guarantee? The same thing the middle rounds do, nothing. I am of the opinion that if you can trade down(for value, not just to trade down) and accumulate picks that is the way to go and on top of getting more picks you also don't pay the huge bonuses to those top picks and aren't stuck in contracts like the lions are and have been with rogers and harrington!!! We should all learn from idiots like Millen!!

 

[ComebackKurt]

The Saints hold the #2 overall pick. A cornerstone, franchise player is available to them. For a minute forget the R. Leaf, A. Smith, C. Enis and other NFL busts. Forget your working knowledge of hindsight. Just for discussion sake agree the #2 is a legit player. That same player is not available this year at 7, 8, 9 nor is his value recouped by pairing picks 15 and 22 or 12 and 31, for example. I have seen the trade value and pick chart. I worked with the damn thing for a couple years. It is a tool used by a GM and or coach to augment their decision. It is not the end all be all.

Not in the habit of quoting myself but...For the sake of discussion and shedding some light on the topic at hand through personal experience as someone that worked in a scouting department and as a player rep I made this point during my reply.

It is VERY EASY to use hindsight and build an argument for and or against what I wrote. For example, I could dig up every Top 5 pick that had a career longer than the NFL average for his position; that never spent time on the injury report; contributed to the team and had an amazing ROI both on and off the field for the franchise. I could then do the same for players between picks 5-10; 11-15 and so on...Not sure it adds much value, as I forfeited the use of that maxim in the original reply.

An NFL team does not have the luxury of hindsight and to prove a point on why Madden trades do not work in the real football world I suggested the topic be brought along with the same limitation. More picks do not equal more value in an NFL trade. You are not increases your odds of finding the next great player by trading your #2 overall and picking up a pair of picks resting between 15-32. You are decreasing your chances or, at least, that is how a franchise looks at the equation.

And that my friend is the Matt Millen school of thought... value is only in the eye of the beholder and if they hold value on a player that isn't deserving then you have created a monster. I look at the franchises(San Diego & New England) that has been sucessful in this trade down process and REAPED the rewards!

San Diego saw the value and instead of taking Vick, turned that into Tomlinson and then drafted Brees in the 2nd, albiet with their own pick, but turned out IMO with a better QB and the best RB in the game because they saw the value in a trade down situation.

New England did the same a few years back and we all understand where I am going... if the deal is right to trade down you do it because IT DOES INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF HITTING ON THAT PICK!! Just ask Millen!!

 

[WhoDat]

ComebacKurt, good stuff. Oh, I am well aware of Millen, being a life long Lions fan. Personally, I am not so sure team ownership does not deserve some of that blame, as it has been said people come to watch the QB; RB and WR play, if you follow the reference.

 

[jeremyx13]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold. I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case. Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him. Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now. White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him. He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall. People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White. He would be unreal in that offense. And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

 

[-OZ-]

And that my friend is the Matt Millen school of thought... value is only in the eye of the beholder and if they hold value on a player that isn't deserving then you have created a monster.

I look at the franchises(San Diego & New England) that has been sucessful in this trade down process and REAPED the rewards!

San Diego saw the value and instead of taking Vick, turned that into Tomlinson and then drafted Brees in the 2nd, albiet with their own pick, but turned out IMO with a better QB and the best RB in the game because they saw the value in a trade down situation.

New England did the same a few years back and we all understand where I am going... if the deal is right to trade down you do it because IT DOES INCREASE YOUR CHANCES OF HITTING ON THAT PICK!! Just ask Millen!!

It's kind of funny that you're attacking Millen, as the one time he did trade down, it was a very good move. Something like KW2 for Roy Williams and Lehman (still hasn't panned out, but he might)

 

[Toads]

That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

If this is Denver, this must be #15.

Santonio Holmes hasn't fared well as the #1 rated WR and has been passed, in the fast lane, by Chad Jackson. Up arrow to Jackson, down arrow to Holmes.

Cutler, Jackson, Kiwanuka, Maroney....one of those falls to DEN at #15 and that's if DEN keeps on keepin' on at the #15. Of those four guys, Kiwanuka stands a ghost of a chance of falling to them at #22, so....it's Marohney or the top rated WR on their board. They always rate 4.3 speed highly so Jackson has probably moved into the #1 WR spot, ahead of Holmes.

 

[rascal]

I think they did the trade just because it represented too much value for them not to do and they plan on just taking the BPA at whatever position they are (besides LB and CB).

In this draft it basically only cost them a third to move up nine spots in the first round...that's an easy oen to pull the trigger on.

Heck Sundquist came out yesterday I believe and said that they weren't targeting any player but did it because of the reasons I just said.

 

[rascal]

Here it is:

The Broncos did not make the deal with any single or multiple rookie prospects in mind.

"The big question right now is, 'Who are they targeting?' We're not necessarily targeting anybody, to be quite honest with you," Sundquist said. "It's just leverage for the club. It just puts you in a better position at (picks) 15 and 22 than 22 and 29."

Wednesday's trade doesn't necessarily bring an end to the pre-draft wheeling and dealing.

"We may not be done, either. You don't know," Sundquist said. "In all honesty, in the end, it was an opportunity and we jumped on the opportunity. It gives us more leverage and flexibility on draft day and even prior to the draft.

"I would not be surprised if we're contacted regarding that pick," Sundquist added. "You just always leave your options open."

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5412

 

[Cecil Lammey]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold.  I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case.  Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him.  Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now.  White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him.  He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall.  People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White.  He would be unreal in that offense.  And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

Cedric Cobbs has a positive buzz about him out at Dove Valley. It wouldn't surprise me to see him become the feature back. He needs to stay motivated and healthy. He has the best all around skill set of any of the Bronco RB's.Word is, Denver might not be done moving up.

 

[cstu]

Of course, all of this depends on the needs of the team and how much depth there is in the draft but it can make sense to trade a high pick for multiple 1st rounders.

cstu, I do not disagree with anything you wrote. This year's class, though, has some absolutle physical monsters available. The early expectation is that Bush is going to rate out as one of the highest graded players...ever. V. Davis, Hawk, Williams and Ferguson are solid options also. Thus, I do not see any of the top 5 teams bypassing the value of one of those players in an attempt to address several needs and reduce the economic stress of the situation. BPA with a top tier pick is more equitable versus later pick addressing a positional need. To paraphrase Gil Brandt, who was instrumental in building Landry's Cowboy teams, if I keep taking guys that fill a need but aren't difference makers, we'll never win any games.

Very good counter point, though.

I'm not arguing trading the #1 (Bush) for the 15th and 22nd picks. What you said is true, VD, Hawk, Williams and D'Brick are solid options. However, let's the take the example of the Packers taking the #5 pick for the #15 and #22. Two of those four will likely be gone so they'll have a choice of VD or Hawk/Williams. Chances are that they won't go wrong with that pick since they look like studs, but past drafts are filled with top 5 picks who bust in the NFL either because of injury or lack of ability.

If the Packers trade the pick they will get two very good players who can be difference makers. While a top 5 pick may seem to be a difference maker, there are nearly as many players who get drafted in the middle of the round and end up Pro Bowl players. Take a look at the players who have been drafted #15 and later and tell me there aren't players who can help you win.

 

[rascal]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold.  I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case.  Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him.  Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now.  White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him.  He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall.  People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White.  He would be unreal in that offense.  And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

Cedric Cobbs has a positive buzz about him out at Dove Valley. It wouldn't surprise me to see him become the feature back. He needs to stay motivated and healthy. He has the best all around skill set of any of the Bronco RB's.Word is, Denver might not be done moving up.

Cobbs was #3 in the heisman race several years ago so the talent is there.Denver isn't done dealing yet. Shanny knows they are close and he wants an immediate impact player one each side of the ball.

Hopefully they land either Moulds or Walker.

 

[msommer]

This trade is just beginning to be examined by the guys that examine trades.

The consensus is that Dem Froncos are looking to trade up and have an option for a top three QB.

Interesting stuff but it makes long term sense to groom Jake's successor. To get there they need a top 6-10 draft position with a #5 being preferred.

The 15th and the 22ed in exchange for the #5?

Works for me.

I think the Jets traded #13 and #21 for #4 a few years back - so it should be in the ballpark - if that is what the Broncos want to do

 

[Getinthemix]

I think they did the trade just because it represented too much value for them not to do and they plan on just taking the BPA at whatever position they are (besides LB and CB).

In this draft it basically only cost them a third to move up nine spots in the first round...that's an easy oen to pull the trigger on.

Heck Sundquist came out yesterday I believe and said that they weren't targeting any player but did it because of the reasons I just said.

I feel they did for the value as well They moved up 14 spots (29 to 15) for not a whole lot.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

I really don't see Denver trading up to draft a RB. First, all indications were that the top RBs were going to slide anyway. If they wanted to go that way either Maroney, White, or both was going to be there when picked at 22. Second, why would they invest a high number 1 pick on a RB when they have consistently been able to plug in 4th-6th round picks and cast-offs that run for 1200+ yards? If they wanted a big name, big money RB they would have paid Portis.

WR, OT, or maybe even LB all seem to make more sense there. I also wouldn't expect them to make a move a TE early (barring an unexpected slide), as I think they feel pretty comfortable with Dukes.

Maybe they realized what they lost when Portis left! Since then its been RBBC and its worked pretty good but Shanahan never used RBBC until Portis left and I think he'd like a guy that could line up ever play and be a threat to go all the way.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold.  I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case.  Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him.  Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now.  White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him.  He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall.  People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White.  He would be unreal in that offense.  And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

This means they're definately going RB!

 

[Toads]

Here it is:

The Broncos did not make the deal with any single or multiple rookie prospects in mind.

"The big question right now is, 'Who are they targeting?' We're not necessarily targeting anybody, to be quite honest with you," Sundquist said. "It's just leverage for the club. It just puts you in a better position at (picks) 15 and 22 than 22 and 29."

Wednesday's trade doesn't necessarily bring an end to the pre-draft wheeling and dealing.

"We may not be done, either. You don't know," Sundquist said. "In all honesty, in the end, it was an opportunity and we jumped on the opportunity. It gives us more leverage and flexibility on draft day and even prior to the draft.

"I would not be surprised if we're contacted regarding that pick," Sundquist added. "You just always leave your options open."

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5412

This is right on....it just was too good to pass up. If Atlanta contacts any team in that same situation....and I mean any team....they'd accept that deal in a heart beat.It's like when Dan Reeves was told that John Elway was available in a draft day trade....he dealt with it the best he could, under the circumstances.

 

[Reaper]

Sheesh - Why didn't the Jets just get the 15th pick and "Throw in" their 3rd and a 4th next year....

Seems like Denevr got a great deal.

 

[boubucarow]

Backs like PJ Daniels and Gerald Riggs Jr are no nonsense cutback runners who can be found in the mid rounds of the draft.

 

[Toads]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold. I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case. Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him. Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now. White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him. He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall. People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White. He would be unreal in that offense. And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

Actually, DEN's blocking scheme is better suited to guy like Maroney than it is to a contact back like White. Most, if not all, of White's yards are going to be hard, after contact, yards. A slasher like Maroney is the perfect compliment to Bell. They've got the heavy pounder in Dayne.At any rate, White/Maroney is probably not where they are headed. Spending a 1st rounder on a RB makes zero sense when they really, really need a WR to replace Smith.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see them take back to back WR's from the Jackson/Moss duo (maybe you can throw Holmes in there, too but he weighed in at 179 lbs. at his pro day.....9 pounds off his combine weight). They did it last year with three CB's...why not "back to back and belly to belly" WR's?

 

[Toads]

The Matt Leinart Theory is being championed by Robby Esch at thehuddlereport.com.

It makes pretty good sense: the 15th, the 22nd in '06 plus a first in '07 to move into the #1 spot in the '06 draft, where DEN takes Leinart.

This type of deal works for HOU, or for the second drafting team (NOS), because they need multiple players.

DEN moves because it makes zero sense not to do this type deal. I think if the GM's at HOU and NOS, when they consider it, it makes equal sense for them to do a trade like this.

It's a Win-Win trade.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[Bojang0301]

Is Denver really that down on Plummer's performance against the Steelers? I mean the guy just had an MVP type year and now there is talk of them drafting a QB... Almost reminds me of how Kordell Stewart had an MVP type year and then fell completly apart after that.

 

[Toads]

Is Denver really that down on Plummer's performance against the Steelers? I mean the guy just had an MVP type year and now there is talk of them drafting a QB... Almost reminds me of how Kordell Stewart had an MVP type year and then fell completly apart after that.

It's just an age and $ type of a deal, plus Leihart is the next best shot at a Franchise QB.Jake is 34 come opening week, I believe? Where it get's interesting is Jake's back-up. Denver always has competition in camp but they need the depth at QB. A veteran plus Van Pelt is a lot better than only Van Pelt. Add Leinart in there and it's looking a lot better in DEN.

If Plummer goes down right now, their season is a gonner.

 

[Kit Fisto]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold.  I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case.  Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him.  Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now.  White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him.  He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall.  People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White.  He would be unreal in that offense.  And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

Cedric Cobbs has a positive buzz about him out at Dove Valley. It wouldn't surprise me to see him become the feature back. He needs to stay motivated and healthy. He has the best all around skill set of any of the Bronco RB's.

OMG, you just made coffee come out my nose! Cedric Cobbs...

 

[cstu]

Is Denver really that down on Plummer's performance against the Steelers? I mean the guy just had an MVP type year and now there is talk of them drafting a QB... Almost reminds me of how Kordell Stewart had an MVP type year and then fell completly apart after that.

It's just an age and $ type of a deal, plus Leihart is the next best shot at a Franchise QB.Jake is 34 come opening week, I believe? Where it get's interesting is Jake's back-up. Denver always has competition in camp but they need the depth at QB. A veteran plus Van Pelt is a lot better than only Van Pelt. Add Leinart in there and it's looking a lot better in DEN.

If Plummer goes down right now, their season is a gonner.

Plummer is actually 32 this year, but it is time for them to start grooming their next QB. By the way, I caught hell last year for suggesting that the Broncos would draft Leinart if they got a high pick from the Redskins (they did a little better than expected).

 

[Cecil Lammey]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold.  I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case.  Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him.  Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now.  White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him.  He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall.  People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White.  He would be unreal in that offense.  And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

Cedric Cobbs has a positive buzz about him out at Dove Valley. It wouldn't surprise me to see him become the feature back. He needs to stay motivated and healthy. He has the best all around skill set of any of the Bronco RB's.

OMG, you just made coffee come out my nose! Cedric Cobbs...

Yes, I know he's a long shot, but he might have changed his ways here in Denver. He didn't do anything in New England, but neither did Rueben Drouhns when he was in Detroit. People didn't see Rueben Droughns becoming a 1,000 yard back in the offseason before he blew up. In fact, Denver cut him in May. Oakland had a little interest, but he came back to Denver because Shanny promised to utilize him more. Due to injuries, Shanny had to really use him and Rueben took advantage of the opportunity.Of all the RB's on their roster right now Cobbs is the most complete runner. Will he stay motivated, will he even make the team in camp? Those are big questions, but even a long shot is still a shot. And like I said before, Denver may not be done moving up.

 

[Kleck.]

White in a Denver uniform is just gold.  I would take him #1 overall in rookie drafts if that were the case.  Heck, I'd consider it NOW, even with us not knowing who drafts him.  Bush has a ton of talent, but will be stuck in Houston, who is going nowhere right now.  White will slip to the teens, and a stronger team will nab him.  He will have a better start than Bush, and perhaps a better career overall.  People forget that White was quite talented at USC as well, and scored quite a lot there.

But I agree with LHUCKS in that IF White were available at #15, and Denver hasn't traded that pick away, they go with White.  He would be unreal in that offense.  And poor, poor Tatum Bell owners will collectively cry themselves to sleep...

If you check out the Broncos website, they are touting Cedric Cobbs out of Arkansas (my favorite of course) as a possible active roster addition. He was on the practice squad last year with the Broncos and was formerly of the Patriots. That makes me tend to think they may go WR, perhaps Holmes.

Cedric Cobbs has a positive buzz about him out at Dove Valley. It wouldn't surprise me to see him become the feature back. He needs to stay motivated and healthy. He has the best all around skill set of any of the Bronco RB's.

OMG, you just made coffee come out my nose! Cedric Cobbs...

Yes, I know he's a long shot, but he might have changed his ways here in Denver. He didn't do anything in New England, but neither did Rueben Drouhns when he was in Detroit. People didn't see Rueben Droughns becoming a 1,000 yard back in the offseason before he blew up. In fact, Denver cut him in May. Oakland had a little interest, but he came back to Denver because Shanny promised to utilize him more. Due to injuries, Shanny had to really use him and Rueben took advantage of the opportunity.Of all the RB's on their roster right now Cobbs is the most complete runner. Will he stay motivated, will he even make the team in camp? Those are big questions, but even a long shot is still a shot. And like I said before, Denver may not be done moving up.

Good thing we got Cecil to stay on top of this stuff for us. It's never a horrible idea to use one of those late round picks on a Denver back-up RB. I can think of plenty more worse picks than Cobbs in the 18th round of some early June draft. Just two years ago there were some people around here that thought Cobbs could turn out to be a pretty decent NFL RB. Some wre also pretty surprised to see him fall as far as he did in the NFL draft.

From 2004 Dynasty Spotlight: Cedric Cobbs, Running Back - New England Patriots

 

[Broncobiv]

Jay Cutler.

 

[ltaylor]

If Leinart is there at #3, I personally would love to see my Titans trade #3 for #15 and #22 and 2007 1st rounder. I would even consider the deal with no 2007 1st and instead DEN 2nd rounder since we are short a 3rd this year from the Henry Deal.

We pick up Deangelo Williams at #15 and the best available DB at #22. Then in the Second we take Omar Jacobs with our early pick and with DEN 2nd we take a MLB. That looks like a perfect first day to me.

That´s probably because I am in the minority who believes that Deangelo Williams will have the best career out of the top 4 RBs. I view him as a legit top 5 prospect.

 

[Courtjester]

Again, I know we are all just guessing what will happen, but I see no way the Broncos trade up to get a QB.

This is a team that is a player or 2 away from winning a super bowl. Shanny has a ton of pressure to win and win now. The type of trades that are being guessed at are trades that a rebuilding franchise might make.

Sure the Broncos absolutely need to bring a backup QB in, just in case Jake goes down. But that QB is going to one that is a veteran type QB that they can get on the cheap.

As has been stated, Denver needs a WR and additional pass rush help. Get that and (yes, I know I am a homer) but you will see them in the AFC Championship game without a doubt.

 

[broncofan13000]

Again, I know we are all just guessing what will happen, but I see no way the Broncos trade up to get a QB.

This is a team that is a player or 2 away from winning a super bowl. Shanny has a ton of pressure to win and win now. The type of trades that are being guessed at are trades that a rebuilding franchise might make.

Sure the Broncos absolutely need to bring a backup QB in, just in case Jake goes down. But that QB is going to one that is a veteran type QB that they can get on the cheap.

As has been stated, Denver needs a WR and additional pass rush help. Get that and (yes, I know I am a homer) but you will see them in the AFC Championship game without a doubt.

i totally agree. I see denver moving up to either grab Mario or V.Davis; an immediate impact player. The only way i see them moving up for a QB is if Young or Cutler slip past the 8th slot and Denver can send the #15 pick and a second. They should only trade both first rounders if its for Mario or Vernon. (#4-6 slot)