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Iran - Democracy Movement, The Nuke Deal & The Future (2 Viewers)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
It aptly describes the state our politics that Bolton is driving like hell to gin up another war, our SOS cancels on our allies to meet with the Russians, the military and intelligence apparatuses are being screwed with, and diplomacy resembles the thinking of a teenage girl, and the American people can barely fit it on their radar.
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But both sides, right?  (Not directed at your Saints, just the whole false equivalency crowd).  

 
Good time to remind everyone that Bolton and Giuliani (and Howard Dean) have taken big checks from the MEK, an Iranian regime change cult.  Yet another foreign influence op that somehow magically slipped by the news cycle while they were busy wailing about Trump and Russia.  

Kind of interesting, Hillary Clinton helped the MEK get delisted as a terrorist organization in 2012, and at one point supported a measure to to list the IRG (Iran's uniformed, organized military) as a terrorist org, which Trump just did.  Goes to show you that no matter who wins, Israel wins.  

 
ren hoek said:
Good time to remind everyone that Bolton and Giuliani (and Howard Dean) have taken big checks from the MEK, an Iranian regime change cult.  Yet another foreign influence op that somehow magically slipped by the news cycle while they were busy wailing about Trump and Russia.  

Kind of interesting, Hillary Clinton helped the MEK get delisted as a terrorist organization in 2012, and at one point supported a measure to to list the IRG (Iran's uniformed, organized military) as a terrorist org, which Trump just did.  Goes to show you that no matter who wins, Israel wins.  
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Bolton was cooking intelligence before anyone ever heard of MEK.

 
Saudi Arabia said armed drones had struck two oil pumping stations in the kingdom on Tuesday in what it called a “cowardly” act of terrorism two days after Saudi oil tankers were sabotaged off the coast of the United Arab Emirates.

The energy minister of the world’s largest oil exporter said the attack caused a fire, now contained, and minor damage at one pump station, but did not disrupt oil production or exports of crude and petroleum products.

Oil prices spiked on news of the attack on the stations, more than 200 miles (320 km) west of the capital Riyadh. Brent crude futures rose 1.38% to trade at $71.20 by 1114 GMT.

Energy Minister Khalid al-Falih, in comments run by state media, said the drone attack and Sunday’s sabotage of four vessels, including two Saudi tankers, off Fujairah emirate, a major bunkering hub, threatened global oil supplies.

“These attacks prove again that it is important for us to face terrorist entities, including the Houthi militias in Yemen that are backed by Iran,” Falih said in an English-language statement issued by his ministry.

Houthi-run Masirah TV earlier said the group had launched drone attacks on “vital” Saudi installations in response to “continued aggression and blockade” on Yemen.

A Saudi-led coalition has been battling the Houthis for four years in Yemen to try to restore the internationally recognized government, in a conflict widely seen as a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. ...

The UAE has not revealed details about the nature of the attack on ships near Fujairah port, which lies just outside the Strait of Hormuz, or blamed any party or country.

Iran was a prime suspect in the sabotage on Sunday although Washington had no conclusive proof, a U.S. official familiar with American intelligence said on Monday.

Iran has denied involvement and described the attack on the four commercial vessels as “worrisome and dreadful”. It has called for an investigation.

The U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia said Washington should take what he called “reasonable responses short of war” after it had determined who was behind the attacks near Fujairah.

“We need to do a thorough investigation to understand what happened, why it happened, and then come up with reasonable responses short of war,” Ambassador John Abizaid told reporters in the Saudi capital Riyadh in remarks published on Tuesday.

“It’s not in (Iran’s) interest, it’s not in our interest, it’s not in Saudi Arabia’s interest to have a conflict.” ...
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Reuters

 
Trump backing down, the 120,000 troops was just something that was discussed etc.

The one consistent pattern of the Trump administration seems to be this: Trump sees or hears something that makes him upset. He issues impetuous orders. The orders are leaked to the news media. Trump gets a bunch of phone calls telling him how awful his idea is. Trump then chides the media for fake news and claims he never meant to actually do it.

Rinse and repeat, that is my impression.

 
Are The Troops such brainwashed idiots that they're willing to start up another bloodbath for these neocon ghouls?  Just follow orders and massacre innocent people in a country that has done literally nothing to us because Israel/Trump/Bolton says so?  Anyone that contributes a hand to this should be shamed for the rest of their lives.  This is an outrage.  

People who blindly revere the military as if it's incapable of doing the same heinous #### we condemn from other countries, no matter how many times they did it or how many decades they've done it for, are culpable for this.  

 
Curt Mills @CurtMills

Two sources familiar with the matter tell me Bolton is headed for the exits, having flown too close to the sun on Iran. “Hearing that Trump wants him out,” a former senior administration official told me. But is he? For Bolton, it’s full steam ahead.

 
ren hoek said:
Are The Troops such brainwashed idiots that they're willing to start up another bloodbath for these neocon ghouls?  Just follow orders and massacre innocent people in a country that has done literally nothing to us because Israel/Trump/Bolton says so?  Anyone that contributes a hand to this should be shamed for the rest of their lives.  This is an outrage.  

People who blindly revere the military as if it's incapable of doing the same heinous #### we condemn from other countries, no matter how many times they did it or how many decades they've done it for, are culpable for this.  
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Nah, this isn’t on the soldiers who follow orders.  This is on conservative hawks, Republican politicians, the Trump administration, and Trump voters.  

 
timschochet said:
Trump backing down, the 120,000 troops was just something that was discussed etc.

The one consistent pattern of the Trump administration seems to be this: Trump sees or hears something that makes him upset. He issues impetuous orders. The orders are leaked to the news media. Trump gets a bunch of phone calls telling him how awful his idea is. Trump then chides the media for fake news and claims he never meant to actually do it.

Rinse and repeat, that is my impression.
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Tim, is the Trump experience causing some deep reflection in your worldview?  I know I went through a period where even when I began supporting liberal policies and politicians, I told myself that the conservatives and Republicans I supported in the past were different, and that I wasn’t wrong.  Of course that’s nonsense, and even though Reagan and GHWB were no Trump, they helped lay the foundation for what we are seeing now.  I now know my support for Reagan as a young kid and my support for GHWB as an older teen was wrong and ignorant.  

Have you reached the point where you see the error in your previous support for conservatism?   Or are you still in denial? 

 
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tommyGunZ said:
Tim, is the Trump experience causing some deep reflection in your worldview?  I know I went through a period where even when I began supporting liberal policies and politicians, I told myself that the conservatives and Republicans I supported in the past were different, and that I wasn’t wrong.  Of course that’s nonsense, and even though Reagan and GHWB were no Trump, they helped lay the foundation for what we are seeing now.  I now know my support for Reagan as a young kid and my support for GHWB as an older teen was wrong and ignorant.  

Have you reached the point where you see the error in your previous support for conservatism?   Or are you still in denial? 
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My support for conservatism was based on my belief in the ideas that it represented, not the people who espoused it. So no. 

And I strongly disagree with you that Reagan or Bush (either one) laid the foundation for Trump. Quite the opposite. 

Ronald Reagan remains, overall, the best President of my lifetime. 

 
Congress is not being briefed on the situation.

...The uptick in tensions has also rattled the State Department’s top officials in charge of diplomatic security, who on Tuesday postponed a major forum of regional security officers from most embassies and consulates worldwide. The event, which was scheduled to include Pompeo; Rep. Michael McCaul (Tex.), the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee; and Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), was postponed because of “increasing tensions with Iran” and the need for senior personnel to “remain in the field to assess and respond to potential threats,” according to a State Department memo obtained by The Washington Post.

The event is scheduled every three to four years and involves 300-plus people, said a State Department official who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss internal logistics. “It’s no small potatoes that Diplomatic Security chose to cancel this,” the official said.

The situation has set off alarm bells on Capitol Hill, where Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is attempting to bring in senior administration officials to brief senators next week on Iran and other issues in the region, according to three congressional officials apprised of the discussions.

The effort comes as many lawmakers are voicing their frustration with the Trump administration for not keeping Congress more fully aware of its plans concerning Iran.

“I think all of us are in the dark over here,” Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said Tuesday. ...
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The New York Times on Monday reported that acting defense secretary Patrick Shanahan, in response to a request for updated options from national security adviser John Bolton, put forward several proposals, including one to deploy 120,000 troops.

Speaking to reporters in Washington, Trump characterized the article as inaccurate but said he would be prepared to authorize an even more muscular approach if needed.

“Hopefully we’re not going to have to plan for that,” he said. “And if we did that, we’d send a hell of a lot more troops than that.”
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Bucky86 said:
:lol:  

Reportedly Trump is worried that Bolton is marching him to war with Iran and he's wondering how he got here.

:lmao:   :lmao:   Most incompetent president ever.
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And you may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself
Where does that highway go to?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may say yourself, "My God! What have I done?"

 
The Commish said:
How are people not talking about the lack of a confirmed Secretary of Defense at this point?  How are his supporters ok with this?
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I honestly think they don't care. 

And 2Squirrels1Nut's response is probably correct too because they often seem to enjoy gloating and laughing at the pain and hurt inflicted upon others that don't agree with them.

 
ren hoek said:
“Mr. President, are we going to war with Iran?”

“Hope not.”

https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1129056772994609153

If only he knew someone in a position of power who could stop this reckless escalation. Do you think he could get an audience with John Bolton?
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Yep

https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1129175077382250497

He should probably put together a global coalition that forces Iran to the table, and negotiate a deal that ends Iran’s nuclear program, complete with comprehensive inspections from the IAEA.

But I would want that deal to force them to shut down their path to a plutonium bomb, end weapons grade enrichment, get rid of their uranium stockpile, and also the inspectors would need to go anywhere, even military sites if needed. But all that’s not possible, right?

That seems like a reach, but man that would be an enormous diplomatic achievement. It would make Israel, the region, and the world safer.

Brian, I just did some quick online research and I have BIG NEWS.

Apparently we HAD an agreement that did all those things (I know!) and Trump tore it up, and then did a whole bunch more stuff that his military advisors told him might lead to war.

Anyway, sometimes the internet is wrong but that’s what I found

 
Bucky86 said:
https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1129531058612056066?s=20

Yep it looks like it’s correct. US forces have been given green light by Gulf states to ‘redeploy’ to the Gulf via land and sea to counter Iran according to

@AlHadath

@AlArabiya_Brk

@AlainBRK
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That’s very ungood.

F all the other crap...we can recover from trade wars, they suck but we can recover.

Is there any one person here who voted for him, who supports him, or doesn’t but defends and complains about the liberals or whatever that has confidence in what we are doing here?

 
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