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Iraq. 17 years later. (1 Viewer)

Bob Graham. If Al Gore had selected him as VP instead of Joe Lieberman for the 2000 election, there would've been no Iraq war since Graham is worth more than 537 votes in Florida. He was a super popular 2-times governor and 3-times senator. He wasn't charismatic enough to become president, but he would've made a great VP.

Graham forced Tenet to write a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on a possible war in Iraq (none was requested by the administration and none had been prepared), which ultimately led Graham to vote nay on the Iraq War resolution, along with 22 other senators (but not Biden, Hillary or Kerry). Most in Congress never read the classified report. Graham's interactions with Tenet, along with the report, led him to believe that the intelligence on Iraq was not that reliable and that the decision to wage war had already been made. He also didn't want to spread the military too thin.  

Graham's statement on the floor of the Senate in Oct 2002:

“Friends, I encourage you to read the classified intelligence reports which are much sharper than what is available in declassified form ...We are going to be increasing the threat level against the people of the United States...Blood is going to be on your hands.”

 
Graham forced Tenet to write a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on a possible war in Iraq (none was requested by the administration and none had been prepared), which ultimately led Graham to vote nay on the Iraq War resolution, along with 22 other senators (but not Biden, Hillary or Kerry). Most in Congress never read the classified report. Graham's interactions with Tenet, along with the report, led him to believe that the intelligence on Iraq was not that reliable and that the decision to wage war had already been made. He also didn't want to spread the military too thin.  
Just to be clear the NIE stated it wasn’t reliable, that’s what an intelligence estimate does. It’s not a big document. The number of Congressmen who didn’t bother to read it was outrageous, still is.

 
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My memory of events is that the Iraqis had nothing to do with 911, that it was primarily individual Saudis.  My memory is that the Bush Administration pushed dubious connections and made conflated arguments based upon minimal or even fabricated evidence to get us, and the world, worked up about Saddam Hussein. 

To me the interesting thing was that there were real reasons to be concerned about Iraq. They had, apparently, repeatedly violated the no fly zones established in the armistice.  They had repeatedly conspired to  violate the financial restrictions of the armistice.  They had declared their intent to become a nuclear and a regional power and were recruiting insurgents by their defiant stance, selling that the coalition, and America in particular were powerless to stop them.  They challenged us to enforce the armistice. These may have been reasons to intercede, but they were not sold as such, instead we heard tales of yellow cake uranium and of human rights violations in a sovereign nation.  We went to war under false pretenses when justification may have existed.  It was very strange to me.  Why the false narrative?  I could not figure that out. 

 
My memory of events is that the Iraqis had nothing to do with 911, that it was primarily individual Saudis.  My memory is that the Bush Administration pushed dubious connections and made conflated arguments based upon minimal or even fabricated evidence to get us, and the world, worked up about Saddam Hussein. 

To me the interesting thing was that there were real reasons to be concerned about Iraq. They had, apparently, repeatedly violated the no fly zones established in the armistice.  They had repeatedly conspired to  violate the financial restrictions of the armistice.  They had declared their intent to become a nuclear and a regional power and were recruiting insurgents by their defiant stance, selling that the coalition, and America in particular were powerless to stop them.  They challenged us to enforce the armistice. These may have been reasons to intercede, but they were not sold as such, instead we heard tales of yellow cake uranium and of human rights violations in a sovereign nation.  We went to war under false pretenses when justification may have existed.  It was very strange to me.  Why the false narrative?  I could not figure that out. 
This is a wonderful recapturing of the events of the day.  Thanks for this DW, it's why some of us remain bitter about the Bush terms but was also a useful tool to reignite skepticism in government for a new generation who remembered Watergate/Vietnam/Civil Rights as text book history only.

 
Two time W voter here. Looking back I have a few problems with his presidency. Surprisingly the Iraq war isn’t at the top of the list.

For me, the WMD issue was only one more reason Saddam had to go. As DW pointed out there were plenty of other legitimate reasons to justify it. Sure they weren’t as scary or earth shattering, but legitimate reasons none the less.  Saddam refused to comply with the cease fire agreement, hence the US was within its rights to resume hostilities.

The real questions are. Are the people of Iraq better today?  What does Iraq and Middle East look like today with no invasion? Would Saddam still be in power? Still under UN Sanctions? Would Iraq be a nuclear power or would Israel have taken action to stop it?

I’ve mentioned before that I’m so fearful of what someday we will find in North Korea. How will we be able to look in the mirror knowing what we know, and knowing we did nothing.

 
I’m not sure how much you know about it. I teach it to HS freshman so it’s not the most complex examination.

Media and SA War

Here are some links on the Iraq War and the media. 

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/no-one-should-forget-the-medias-role-in-the-march-to-the-iraq-war-20151029-gkm09i.html

Also this Wikipedia page is good because it references a study I had read that is behind a paywall 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War
I knew almost nothing about the spanish american war. Some fascinating stuff I never knew, including the propaganda stuff. Thank you.

 
parasaurolophus said:
I knew almost nothing about the spanish american war. Some fascinating stuff I never knew, including the propaganda stuff. Thank you.
Hearst is the guy that the movie Citizen Kane is based on. Hearst sent his reporters to Cuba to cover the war. When they said there was no war, Hearst said,  “You give me the pictures, I’ll supply the war.”

 
Was it really more of an oil grab than a chance to enrich the military industrial complex?
I think W was conned by Cheney and Rummy like the rubes in 2016 were conned by Trump.  I think he thought it was for a good cause, but we all know what happens when dumb people make decisions.

 
Two time W voter here. Looking back I have a few problems with his presidency. Surprisingly the Iraq war isn’t at the top of the list.

For me, the WMD issue was only one more reason Saddam had to go. As DW pointed out there were plenty of other legitimate reasons to justify it. Sure they weren’t as scary or earth shattering, but legitimate reasons none the less.  Saddam refused to comply with the cease fire agreement, hence the US was within its rights to resume hostilities.

The real questions are. Are the people of Iraq better today?  What does Iraq and Middle East look like today with no invasion? Would Saddam still be in power? Still under UN Sanctions? Would Iraq be a nuclear power or would Israel have taken action to stop it?

I’ve mentioned before that I’m so fearful of what someday we will find in North Korea. How will we be able to look in the mirror knowing what we know, and knowing we did nothing.
Quite simply, because we aren't the world's police.  Is what is happening in NK worse than Sudan or the Baltics?  Not really, no.  People are going to be absolute animals to one another.  It's in our DNA.  We aren't as sophisticated as we think.  We eat, ####, and kill as much today as ever.  We aren't as enlightened as we like to think.  

 
I know-knew many Iraqi people when I was at Ford motor at the time this war started.   The educated people from Iraq to a person wanted the US to take out Sadaam.  Before the war started they were excited and telling me that the Iraqi people are much the same as us her and want freedom and a democracy.  They were shocked when things did not turn out that way.

 
Bob Graham. If Al Gore had selected him as VP instead of Joe Lieberman for the 2000 election, there would've been no Iraq war since Graham is worth more than 537 votes in Florida. He was a super popular 2-times governor and 3-times senator. He wasn't charismatic enough to become president, but he would've made a great VP.

Graham forced Tenet to write a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on a possible war in Iraq (none was requested by the administration and none had been prepared), which ultimately led Graham to vote nay on the Iraq War resolution, along with 22 other senators (but not Biden, Hillary or Kerry). Most in Congress never read the classified report. Graham's interactions with Tenet, along with the report, led him to believe that the intelligence on Iraq was not that reliable and that the decision to wage war had already been made. He also didn't want to spread the military too thin.  

Graham's statement on the floor of the Senate in Oct 2002:

“Friends, I encourage you to read the classified intelligence reports which are much sharper than what is available in declassified form ...We are going to be increasing the threat level against the people of the United States...Blood is going to be on your hands.”
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana) That is our problem in a nut shell we never learn.As citizens we need to listen to folks like Former Senator Graham  and Rand Paul.If it takes pouring into the streets protesting then that is what we need to do.We do not need to lose one more kid policing the world.You would have thought Vietnam would have taught us but nooo. Usually we do more harm than good.When we finally do get our kids back home.We need to make sure our representatives in Congress know that we don't want to send our kids to die in useless conflicts around the world by any means necessary.

 
I Fought Against Muqtada al-Sadr. Now He’s Iraq’s Best Hope.

The former militia leader who once terrorized U.S. forces has reinvented himself as an Iraqi nationalist and a pragmatist.

By Michael D. Sullivan -- June 18, 2018, 7:08 AM

BAGHDAD — I’ve fought against Muqtada al-Sadr’s Shiite militias in Iraq. I’ve ducked from rockets from his Mahdi Army and lost friends to improvised explosive devices from his Promised Day Brigade. But the Muqtada al-Sadr of 2018, whose Sairun coalition won the most seats in this recent Iraq parliamentary election, is not the Muqtada al-Sadr of 2004. The man who once directed his Mahdi militias to fight U.S. forces in Najaf and Baghdad has changed for the better.

While Sadr may have acted counter to U.S. interests in the past, he is now more aligned with Western attempts to reign in Iranian influence and Sunni extremism. Sadr has, in his view, always been a pragmatist. But his pragmatic approach went from trying to change the situation in Iraq through physical violence (2003 to 2008) to understanding the power of politics and civic actions (2011 to 2018). Today, Sadr understands the need for coalition support to help bolster Iraq’s security forces, thereby preventing another collapse that allows an extremist group like the Islamic State to emerge.

I have read the doom and gloom articles. I have received panicked e-mails, Facebook messages, and WhatsApp texts from friends who have served in Iraq.

They all ask the same question: “Sadr? Really? Didn’t we fight this guy for years? How can this happen?” They, too, lost loved ones fighting against Sadr’s militias in Najaf, Baghdad’s Dora neighborhood, and along the infamous Route Irish from the Green Zone to the Baghdad airport.

I understand their fears because I once shared the same concerns. However, having been in Iraq for multiple combat tours and during last month’s parliamentary election, I now have a much more positive view of the country than I ever would have imagined. The Sadr I witnessed leading his Sairun alliance in the 2018 election, while not pro-American, was both pro-Iraqi and anti-Iranian. This is a huge shift from 2004.

This is the first Iraqi election since the defeat of the Islamic State and the fifth since Saddam Hussein was deposed. I was in Iraq for the 2010 parliamentary elections. I remember being in a U.S. cavalry squadron operations center in Baghdad as reports of improvised explosive devices, rockets, shootings, and Iraqi casualties at polling places came pouring in. One could feel the reverberations of an IED echoing through the walls of Forward Operating Base Falcon at the southern end of Baghdad in 2010. This year there has been nothing of the sort: No explosions, no incoming rockets, no car bombs.

The Iraqi security forces, along with their coalition partners from the United States, United Kingdom, Germany, and over 80 other nations have provided solid security for the population. While there were minimal incidents in other areas of Iraq, Baghdad was quiet on Election Day. Unlike in 2010, when two Shiite-led political blocs dominated the share of votes, 2018 split the spoils across Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish lines. In such an atmosphere, Sadrists, who received roughly 30 to 40 seats in previous elections, were poised to make a much stronger showing. As the election results came in, it became clear his list would win a plurality of the 329 seats in the Council of Representatives. That’s when the angst, bordering on panic, began in Washington, London, and in the minds of hundreds of thousands of Iraq War veterans who only knew the Sadr who’d tried to kill them during past deployments in Iraq.

After all, Sadr doesn’t like the United States. He never has and most likely never will. Sadr and his militias fought numerous battles against U.S. forces whom he viewed as occupiers. Even the government of Iraq launched Operation Charge of the Knights against Sadr and his militias in Basra in 2008 with massive help from coalition forces, an operation that prompted Sadr to flee to Iran. Following the 2008 cease-fire, Sadr shifted the Mahdi Army’s focus away from military operations to the provision of social services, establishing a nonmilitary wing called the Mumahidoon and reassigning most of the Mahdi Army’s members to it. Attacks against the Iraqi military and citizens were halted, although a small number of Mahdi militia members were assigned to the Promised Day Brigade and continued their attacks on U.S. forces until the U.S. withdrawal in December 2011.

The Sadr who returned to Iraq in 2011 from his exile in Iran was different. He disbanded the Mahdi Army, ordered his militias not to attack U.S. forces, and, in 2014, instructed them instead to defend Iraq against the Islamic State. The rise of the Islamic State coupled with the fall of Mosul resulted in an odd coalition: Iraqi Shiite militias, Iranian-backed forces, Iraqi counterterrorism forces, and U.S.-led coalition forces all fought against the Islamic State in both Iraq and Syria. Sadr’s forces, unlike other Shiite militias, cooperated with Iraqi government forces in that fight. More important, after Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi announced in December 2017 that the Islamic State had been defeated in Iraq, Sadr ordered his militias to disband and continued to follow the instructions of the Iraqi government.

Sadr has always been an Iraqi nationalist, placing his country before all others, including the United States and, more importantly, Iran.

He is a pragmatist, and while he would never say it publicly, Sadr appears to understand that Iraq alone — without the United States and its coalition partners — cannot strengthen its security forces to prevent another implosion like what happened from 2013 to 2014, when the Islamic State took over large swathes of the country. In 2013, the citizens of Baghdad could hear Islamic State artillery firing in the distance; Iraq was that close to total defeat. The Iraqi people, including Sadr, remember this.

Now, with the Islamic State almost vanquished in Iraq, sectarianism and corruption are the two biggest challenges facing the country. Sadr knows what sectarianism can do to Iraq; he was a major participant in it and his militias were directly responsible for numerous atrocities against fellow Iraqis. The bloody civil war between Sunnis and Shiites from 2006 to 2008 killed thousands and tore at the very fabric of Iraqi society. Entire neighborhoods were ethnically cleansed and mutilated bodies were pulled from the Tigris River every day. It was sectarianism combined with corruption under former Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki that provided the opening for the Islamic State to emerge in the Sunni-dominated province of Anbar.

Corruption is the other major challenge facing Iraq. Despite current Prime Minister Abadi’s pledge to rein in government corruption, he didn’t accomplish much during his four years in office. As an oil-dependent economy, Iraq needs to diversify its economic portfolio, create jobs for hundreds of thousands of citizens, and redevelop its nonexistent middle class. Forty percent of Iraqis are employed by the state — a government rife with systemic corruption. As Sarah Chayes argues in her 2015 book, Thieves of State, corruption “is a cause — not a result — of global instability.”

Sadr and his Sairun list have the best chance to positively impact both of these issues by forming a broad-based, ethnically diverse, government to lead Iraq forward. Sadr’s list has brought together strange bedfellows: His Shiite group joined Iraqi communists united in their calls for government reform and to fight systemic corruption. Sadr is continuing to work closely with a variety of other lists in an effort to form the largest bloc in the Iraqi parliament. This includes outreach to Prime Minister Abadi and his Victory Alliance (Nasr), Vice President Iyad Allawi and his predominantly Sunni list, as well as Kurdish lists. A nonsectarian, multicultural government bodes well for Iraq. Rather than the Fatah Alliance, a heavily Iranian-influenced list dominated by violent Shiite militia groups such as Asaib Ahl al-Haq and Kataib Hezbollah, a Sairun and Nasr list seems the best hope for a stable Iraqi government.

That said, Sadr will still need to embrace elements of the Iranian-backed Fatah Alliance to avoid military confrontation during government formation

Sadr will still need to embrace elements of the Iranian-backed Fatah Alliance to avoid military confrontation during government formation

; a worst-case scenario would be the militias of Fatah and Sairun fighting for power on the streets of Baghdad. Sadr seems to recognize that elements of the Fatah list, such as the Badr Organization, were responsive to Iraqi government during the fight against Islamic State forces and would more than likely be allies with Sadr as he seeks to form a governing coalition. More extreme elements of the Fatah Alliance, such as Asaib Ahl al-Haq and Kataib Hezbollah, who openly receive support from Iran and publicly call for the removal of coalition troops from Iraq through violence, are reminders that a list like Fatah has varying elements and Sadr must deal with them carefully as he negotiates.

Most important, Sadr’s list does not have a single current politician on it. Rather than putting the same people in office to do the same poor job of managing the country, Sadr wants to put technocrats in office — people who have the skills to manage and reform the bloated bureaucracy. These technocrats come from across Iraqi society: private sector leaders, engineers, doctors, academics, and former military leaders. The next Iraqi government needs to focus on security sector reform, institution building, countering corruption, and wholesale economic reform to develop a viable middle class once again. Sadr believes he can do this.

His metamorphosis from the little-known son of a famous father, to a violent militia leader, to the leader of the winning party in the 2018 parliamentary election is encouraging. As an Iraqi nationalist, religious leader, and pragmatist, Sadr has both the credibility to form a stable government and the ability to do so effectively.

Sadr has both the credibility to form a stable government and the ability to do so effectively.

Things could still take a turn for the worse. Iran is actively working to make sure their Shiite coalition forms the next government. We’ve seen this before in 2010: a hard-fought election result quickly slipped away from the Iraqi people mostly due to Iranian interference, U.S. apathy, and Sadr buckling under pressure to support then-Prime Minister Maliki.

Transitions in Iraq are always painful; they are a time of both opportunities and risks. I’ve witnessed many of them: the start of the Iraqi insurgency in 2004; the surge of U.S. forces in 2007; the transition of U.S. forces out of Iraqi cities in 2009; the lost chance for change during the 2010 Iraqi elections; the emergence of Operation New Dawn in September 2010 and the eventual drawdown of U.S. troops and withdrawal from Iraq in 2011.

Unlike all those previous transitions, this election has left me with a feeling I’ve rarely experienced in all of my years in Iraq and certainly one I would have never thought I’d associate with Muqtada al-Sadr: hope.

 
Isn’t this largely the fault of Western leaders who just ####### made up borders after WW1 or 2 or something?

Like if each major tribe/ethnic group had their own country would they be fighting so much?
Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World is a great read about how the Paris accord after WW1 set the stage for events that are affecting us even now.,.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26348.Paris_1919

 
In a two-day preliminary hearing at Naval Base San Diego that concluded Thursday, prosecutors presented accounts from several other SEALs in Chief Gallagher’s platoon describing his behavior as reckless and bloodthirsty. They said he fired into civilian crowds, gunned down a girl walking along a riverbank and an old man carrying a water jug, and threatened to kill fellow SEALs if they reported his actions.

Some platoon members were so distraught by the chief’s actions, investigators said, that they tampered with his sniper rifle to make it less accurate, and fired warning shots to scare away civilians before the chief had a chance to shoot them.

“They said they spent more time protecting civilians than they did fighting ISIS,” Special Agent Joe Warpinski of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service told the military court.

In May 2017, Iraqi forces captured an enemy fighter who had been wounded in an airstrike. Video images show the bleeding fighter, who was thought to be between 12 and 17, being brought to the SEAL platoon on the hood of a truck, and Chief Gallagher and others cutting away his clothing to give medical aid.

Photos of the fighter viewed by The New York Times appeared to show that medics had put tubes used to treat a collapsed lung in his side and cut an emergency airway in his throat.

Navy investigators said that one SEAL medic was kneeling over the fighter’s head, treating him, when Chief Gallagher walked up and, without saying a word, took out a handmade knife and stabbed the teenager several times in the neck and side.

Investigators said two other SEALs gave similar accounts.

Members of the platoon then posed for photos with Chief Gallagher as he held the teenager’s head up by the hair with one hand, and held his knife in the other. Photos show Chief Gallagher then raising his right hand to perform a re-enlistment ceremony over the dead body, while another SEAL member holds an American flag.

Soon after the episode, investigators said, Chief Gallagher texted a photo of the body to a fellow SEAL member with the message, “I got him with my hunting knife.”

Decorated Navy SEAL Is Accused of War Crimes in Iraq

 
In a two-day preliminary hearing at Naval Base San Diego that concluded Thursday, prosecutors presented accounts from several other SEALs in Chief Gallagher’s platoon describing his behavior as reckless and bloodthirsty. They said he fired into civilian crowds, gunned down a girl walking along a riverbank and an old man carrying a water jug, and threatened to kill fellow SEALs if they reported his actions.

Some platoon members were so distraught by the chief’s actions, investigators said, that they tampered with his sniper rifle to make it less accurate, and fired warning shots to scare away civilians before the chief had a chance to shoot them.

“They said they spent more time protecting civilians than they did fighting ISIS,” Special Agent Joe Warpinski of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service told the military court.

In May 2017, Iraqi forces captured an enemy fighter who had been wounded in an airstrike. Video images show the bleeding fighter, who was thought to be between 12 and 17, being brought to the SEAL platoon on the hood of a truck, and Chief Gallagher and others cutting away his clothing to give medical aid.

Photos of the fighter viewed by The New York Times appeared to show that medics had put tubes used to treat a collapsed lung in his side and cut an emergency airway in his throat.

Navy investigators said that one SEAL medic was kneeling over the fighter’s head, treating him, when Chief Gallagher walked up and, without saying a word, took out a handmade knife and stabbed the teenager several times in the neck and side.

Investigators said two other SEALs gave similar accounts.

Members of the platoon then posed for photos with Chief Gallagher as he held the teenager’s head up by the hair with one hand, and held his knife in the other. Photos show Chief Gallagher then raising his right hand to perform a re-enlistment ceremony over the dead body, while another SEAL member holds an American flag.

Soon after the episode, investigators said, Chief Gallagher texted a photo of the body to a fellow SEAL member with the message, “I got him with my hunting knife.”

Decorated Navy SEAL Is Accused of War Crimes in Iraq
Holy crap. 

 
In a two-day preliminary hearing at Naval Base San Diego that concluded Thursday, prosecutors presented accounts from several other SEALs in Chief Gallagher’s platoon describing his behavior as reckless and bloodthirsty. They said he fired into civilian crowds, gunned down a girl walking along a riverbank and an old man carrying a water jug, and threatened to kill fellow SEALs if they reported his actions.

Some platoon members were so distraught by the chief’s actions, investigators said, that they tampered with his sniper rifle to make it less accurate, and fired warning shots to scare away civilians before the chief had a chance to shoot them.

“They said they spent more time protecting civilians than they did fighting ISIS,” Special Agent Joe Warpinski of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service told the military court.

In May 2017, Iraqi forces captured an enemy fighter who had been wounded in an airstrike. Video images show the bleeding fighter, who was thought to be between 12 and 17, being brought to the SEAL platoon on the hood of a truck, and Chief Gallagher and others cutting away his clothing to give medical aid.

Photos of the fighter viewed by The New York Times appeared to show that medics had put tubes used to treat a collapsed lung in his side and cut an emergency airway in his throat.

Navy investigators said that one SEAL medic was kneeling over the fighter’s head, treating him, when Chief Gallagher walked up and, without saying a word, took out a handmade knife and stabbed the teenager several times in the neck and side.

Investigators said two other SEALs gave similar accounts.

Members of the platoon then posed for photos with Chief Gallagher as he held the teenager’s head up by the hair with one hand, and held his knife in the other. Photos show Chief Gallagher then raising his right hand to perform a re-enlistment ceremony over the dead body, while another SEAL member holds an American flag.

Soon after the episode, investigators said, Chief Gallagher texted a photo of the body to a fellow SEAL member with the message, “I got him with my hunting knife.”

Decorated Navy SEAL Is Accused of War Crimes in Iraq
Read this today. 

If these charges are true, he should be executed. 

 
Peter Maass @maassp

We remember things so we don't forget them. On this day, the 16th anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, we should remember the so-called experts who urged on the war. They have not withered away. They are still with us, still telling us what we should do.

Max Boot is one of them. Before the war, he wrote in the Weekly Standard, "Once we have deposed Saddam, we can impose an American-led, international regency in Baghdad, to go along with the one in Kabul."

Kenneth Pollack, now at the Brookings Institution, wrote a book in 2002 entitled, "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq."

Robert Kagan, a Brookings Institution fellow and Wash Post contributor, wrote in 2002, "Not to take on Saddam would ensure that regimes implicated in terror and developing weapons of mass destruction will be a constant--and growing--feature of our world."

In 2002, John Bolton was a senior arms control official in the Bush administration and said, "We are confident that Saddam Hussein has hidden weapons of mass destruction and production facilities in Iraq." He is now Trump's national security adviser. 

David Frum was the speechwriter for George W. Bush credited with coining the term "axis of evil," referring to Iraq, Iran and North Korea. He is now a staff writer for The Atlantic.

Elliott Abrams was one of the earliest advocates of invading Iraq, dating from the 1990s, and an influential figure within the Bush administration when it happened. He is now Trump's special envoy on Venezuela.

Eliot Cohen was one of the leading neocon advocates of invading Iraq, and later worked in the Bush State Department. He's now a Johns Hopkins professor and frequent contributor to The Atlantic, Foreign Affairs and other publications.

I just want to pause to note how breathtaking it is that the so-called experts who created the greatest foreign affairs disaster in memory (at least hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Americans killed) remain at the highest echelons of the U.S. policy-making establishment.

Condoleezza Rice, national security adviser to George Bush, strongly backed the invasion and wrote a 2003 article headlined, "Why We Know Iraq Is Lying." (Iraq was not lying.) Rice is now a Stanford professor and has earned more than $100,000 per speech.

Tom Friedman was a New York Times columnist who supported the invasion and in its aftermath enthusiastically said it amounted to the U.S. going to Iraq with a big stick and telling Iraqis to "suck on this." Tom Friedman remains a New York Times columnist.

Richard Cohen, a Washington Post columnist, wrote a month before the invasion that Iraq had WMD and "only a fool — or possibly a Frenchman — could conclude otherwise.” He remains a Washington Post columnist.

Robert D. Kaplan, a prolific writer of foreign-policy books and articles, backed the invasion and wrote in 2002 that Iraq would be "the most logical place to relocate Middle Eastern U.S. bases in the twenty-first century."

Just to be clear, this list focuses on experts, writers, and academics (some in govt. at the time, like Condi Rice) who continue to shape policy debates. It's not about politicians who supported the war, or experts who have largely faded away (Richard Perle, for instance).

William Kristol, one of the most influential neocons, spent years advocating the Iraq invasion and said in 2002 that it "could have terrifically good effects throughout the Middle East." He remains ubiquitous as an op-ed writer and TV pundit.

David Brooks, then of the Weekly Standard, derided the opponents of the Iraq invasion for being "lost somewhere in the fog of peace." He is now a columnist for the New York Times and often writes about virtues.

Paul Wolfowitz, a leading neocon and top Pentagon official, told Congress in 2003 that Iraq could finance its own reconstruction "relatively soon." The Iraq and Afghan wars are expected to cost the U.S. more than $7 trillion. In 2005, Wolfowitz was named to head the World Bank.

It boggles the mind that the intellectual authors of the Iraq war, which has killed hundreds of thousands of people and will cost trillions of dollars in the course of time, are doing better than ever. It's an injustice to truth and memory.

 
Isn’t this largely the fault of Western leaders who just ####### made up borders after WW1 or 2 or something?

Like if each major tribe/ethnic group had their own country would they be fighting so much?
Just as a bit of commentary here - this is a fascinating video of how the borders in Europe have moved over the last couple millennia.   They move all over the bloody place and I don't think there would ever be a way of setting a border that groups would actually agree that "yep, this is yours and this is mine."  

 
Just as a bit of commentary here - this is a fascinating video of how the borders in Europe have moved over the last couple millennia.   They move all over the bloody place and I don't think there would ever be a way of setting a border that groups would actually agree that "yep, this is yours and this is mine."  
The EU seems like a good idea in this respect.

 
Did anyone here vote for Bush in 04 despite knowing the Iraq War was a sham?
I did.  The only time I voted republican for president.  While I didn't think the war was justified enough people did and I thought changing leadership mid war was a bad idea.  To this day I regret voting for Bush in 2004.

https://www.thenation.com/article/americas-war-on-terror-has-cost-taxpayers-5-6-trillion/

America's "war on terror" has cost $5.6 trillion dollars.  Our share works out to about $23,386 per taxpayer.  
Maybe instead of seeking vengeance for 9-11 we just paid the families of each person killed a billion dollars we should have saved $2.6 trillion.

 
In a two-day preliminary hearing at Naval Base San Diego that concluded Thursday, prosecutors presented accounts from several other SEALs in Chief Gallagher’s platoon describing his behavior as reckless and bloodthirsty. They said he fired into civilian crowds, gunned down a girl walking along a riverbank and an old man carrying a water jug, and threatened to kill fellow SEALs if they reported his actions.

Some platoon members were so distraught by the chief’s actions, investigators said, that they tampered with his sniper rifle to make it less accurate, and fired warning shots to scare away civilians before the chief had a chance to shoot them.

“They said they spent more time protecting civilians than they did fighting ISIS,” Special Agent Joe Warpinski of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service told the military court.

In May 2017, Iraqi forces captured an enemy fighter who had been wounded in an airstrike. Video images show the bleeding fighter, who was thought to be between 12 and 17, being brought to the SEAL platoon on the hood of a truck, and Chief Gallagher and others cutting away his clothing to give medical aid.

Photos of the fighter viewed by The New York Times appeared to show that medics had put tubes used to treat a collapsed lung in his side and cut an emergency airway in his throat.

Navy investigators said that one SEAL medic was kneeling over the fighter’s head, treating him, when Chief Gallagher walked up and, without saying a word, took out a handmade knife and stabbed the teenager several times in the neck and side.

Investigators said two other SEALs gave similar accounts.

Members of the platoon then posed for photos with Chief Gallagher as he held the teenager’s head up by the hair with one hand, and held his knife in the other. Photos show Chief Gallagher then raising his right hand to perform a re-enlistment ceremony over the dead body, while another SEAL member holds an American flag.

Soon after the episode, investigators said, Chief Gallagher texted a photo of the body to a fellow SEAL member with the message, “I got him with my hunting knife.”

Decorated Navy SEAL Is Accused of War Crimes in Iraq
Read this today. 

If these charges are true, he should be executed. 
https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-seal-accused-of-killing-isis-prisoner-seeks-to-toss-case-over-withheld-evidence

Looks like he is close to being set free.

This is sick movie-like stuff.  I hope it isn't true, but I also don't know why anyone would make this up.

 
you are not wrong

we should have bombed Saudi Arabia 

Iraq did need rid of Saddam .... however GW and this country used 911 to go into Iraq, establishing in hopes I think a Democratic Republic in the middle east

 
Hundreds of thousands heeded the call for a "Million Man March" in Baghdad, calling for US troops to leave Iraq amidst a heavy security presence

Hundreds of thousands protest US troop presence in Iraq

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) - Hundreds of thousands of protesters marched through Baghdad on Friday calling for US troops to leave Iraq, heeding the call of powerful Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr who called for a "Million Man March." 

Families and children held aloft signs that read "no, no to America" and "no, no to occupation" amid a sea of Iraqi flags. A heavy security presence surrounded the path of the march, as well as the Green Zone which houses the US embassy. 

The Green Zone has been the site of multiple rocket attacks that have increased in frequency since a US attack in Baghdad killed Iran's most powerful military general, Qasem Soleimani, and the Iran-backed Iraqi commander, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis. 

The targeted killing on January 3 sparked growing calls for US troops to leave the country, as many Iraqis criticized what they see as a breach of its sovereignty. There are roughly 5,000 US troops in Iraq.

Women shout slogans at the protest in Baghdad against the US military presence in Iraq. 

Iraq's parliament voted to expel the US military from the country following the attack, but the Trump administration has said it does not intend to pull troops out. 

At the rally, Sadr reiterated calls for US troops to leave the country in a bid to steer clear of "another war." Iraqi President Barham Salih tweeted an image of the protest. "Iraqis insist on a state with complete sovereignty that will not be breached," tweeted Salih.

 

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