Boston
Footballguy
Bledsoe was very well regarded as well with his size and arm-strength although like Leaf/Manning he was involved in a who should go first debate with Mirer...
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Is Andrew Luck the best QB Prospect Ever? (1 Viewer)
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NeverEnough
Footballguy
Isn't it a bit early to call Clausen a bust?
Sweet call Mel. I think his constant pimping of Jimmy was a favor to his agent Wichard. Kiper has lost a ton of cred by pimping up Jimmy when everyone under the sun can see he is a smaller version of Joey Harrington.
I remember Elway could throw really hard and run over defenders but I dont ever recall Elway throwing as good on the run as Luck.
pantherclub
Footballguy
No its not, not at all. The dude is too squirrely in the pocket, has a massive hitch in his delivery, refuses to step up and is too small to play the part. Nobody but Mel Kiper and Marty Hurney thought this kid was any good.Claussen is a poor mans Joey Harrington and that is being nice.Isn't it a bit early to call Clausen a bust?
Sweet call Mel. I think his constant pimping of Jimmy was a favor to his agent Wichard. Kiper has lost a ton of cred by pimping up Jimmy when everyone under the sun can see he is a smaller version of Joey Harrington.
I remember Elway could throw really hard and run over defenders but I dont ever recall Elway throwing as good on the run as Luck.
Jewell
Footballguy
Bert Jones (LSU) was also highly regarded.
Per Wiki...
In 1973, Jones was chosen in the first round (2nd overall) of the NFL draft by the Baltimore Colts to be the Colts heir apparent to Johnny Unitas
The widely respected scout Ernie Accorsi is quoted as saying that if Bert Jones had played under different circumstances, he probably would have been the greatest player ever. John Riggins has been quoted as saying Bert was the toughest competitor he has ever witnessed. On the eve of Super Bowl XLII New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, in discussing his choices for the greatest quarterbacks of all time, described Jones as the best "pure passer" he ever saw.
Per Wiki...
In 1973, Jones was chosen in the first round (2nd overall) of the NFL draft by the Baltimore Colts to be the Colts heir apparent to Johnny Unitas
The widely respected scout Ernie Accorsi is quoted as saying that if Bert Jones had played under different circumstances, he probably would have been the greatest player ever. John Riggins has been quoted as saying Bert was the toughest competitor he has ever witnessed. On the eve of Super Bowl XLII New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, in discussing his choices for the greatest quarterbacks of all time, described Jones as the best "pure passer" he ever saw.
buck naked
Footballguy
My first thought was Elway, too. Interesting that both Elway and Luck come from a school not usually thought of as a top of the line football factory.
Elway made throws in the NFL that I had never seen before, like stopping in his tracks and throwing all the way across the field 50-60 yarders. Ridiculous.
Elway made throws in the NFL that I had never seen before, like stopping in his tracks and throwing all the way across the field 50-60 yarders. Ridiculous.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Elway probably the biggest. Then you have Peyton Manning who was the son of Archie "but couldn't win the big game" and Troy Aikman.Those were the 3 biggest I can remember in the last 30 years and probably in that order. Luck will be hard pressed to do any better than Bradford did this year.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I doubt NFL GM's, scouts etc factored much into this. Coming into that season there was no doubt which QB would be #1 and that was in a class that had Rivers and Big Ben.Masked Vigilante said:
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
A lot of people bashed Atlanta for trading up to get Vick. He was regarded by many as far from a sure thing.
spider321
Footballguy
Apparently, they did.Eli was way overrated in college, too, because of his name.
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well then the answer is yes, thread done
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Bert Jones was one ill conceived preseason double reverse flea flicker from being among the greatest ever.Jewell said:
Papa Georgio
Footballguy
massraider said:
Boston
Footballguy
I think Staubach is one of the all-time under-rated players in NFL history...he was an absolute stud...that being he said he wasn't that hyped because he had to serve in the Navy (including a stint in Vietnam) after he graduated from the Academy and had a long layoff between snaps...as good as he was it would have been real interesting if he had gone right into the NFL after college.
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spider321
Footballguy
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
in fairness it was a overall 1 vs 2 , with two great prospects deal. not like qb vs qb 2 with qb 2 goinging in the mid-late 1st.
No question that Elway was the most hyped, but Testaverde's measurables were almost in the same league as Elway's. Vinnie's last game for the Canes - 5 INTs versus Penn State team in the Fiesta Bowl - was a prelude to the color-blindness that plagued Testaverde throughout much of his NFL career.
Drink G2
Footballguy
I can't tell if your kidding, so if you are ignore the following:Roethlisberger? No way man. He was the 3rd QB taken in his draft class. At the time I lived in the small town he went to school too and I remember fairly well and he was talked about, but there wasn't a huge hype.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
off all these guys u have to say peyton. he stayed 4 years and had the pedigree/work ethic.massraider said:
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Man, I remember Marinovich being hyped when he was a freshman in high school. His college career was almost anti-climactic and it seemed like he was drafted on his potential alone.Oh, and don't forget that Marinovich wasn't the highest-drafted quarterback of the 1991 draft. That honor belongs to (drum roll) Dan McGwire of San Diego State!! GDB the Seahawks! Tallest quarterback in NFL history at 6-8. Also an admitted PED user.
The third QB taken in that draft? Brett Favre.
CalBear
Footballguy
But Elway was the greatest prospect ever, despite having a losing record as a starter and failing to ever appear in a bowl game?
spider321
Footballguy
In Elway's defense, there weren't 83 bowl games each year like there are now.
EBF
Footballguy
It's funny, I got into an argument about Palmer with some leaguemates a few weeks ago. People seem to remember him as this godly can't-miss QB. I live in Pac-10 country and I know that not everyone in the league felt that way about him. In fact, as I remember it his college career was very similar to Kyle Boller's. Both were highly touted high school recruits who were expected to lead their teams to greatness. Both started very early in their careers, but looked mediocre until a new coaching staff elevated their play in their final season. I always knew Boller would suck because he simply wasn't that good in college. He was a kid with all of the physical talent, but highly suspect consistency and intangibles. I felt that way about Palmer to a slightly lesser extent. Yes, he always looked the part of a franchise QB at USC in terms of physical stature and arm strength, but I never got the sense that he had a special mastery of the game. He never looked like a world beater until Mike Williams came along dominating everything in sight. After the argument I looked up Palmer's career NFL stats and was surprised to find that they're pretty close to Roethlisberger's even though I consider Ben a much better QB. Maybe there's some truth to the idea that Palmer would've been great if he hadn't suffered those injuries. Still, I feel like he's a guy who has been overrated for some years. When has he ever made a clutch play in his career? There may have been a couple last season, but even this deep into his career he still doesn't exude confidence or take over games very often. I feel like his reputation has been a little bit inflated ever since he torched Notre Dame in that nationally televised game. Purely as a college player, I don't he even belongs in this discussion. He's not the best QB I have seen in the Pac-10 in the past decade. Luck is better, Rodgers was better, and even Sanchez was better (albeit only for a single season). I would put Palmer roughly in the middle between Rodgers/Luck and Boller. Physical specimen who tries hard. Doesn't have that extra something that all the great ones do. Never did, IMO. Here's what he did at USC: * 1999: 39/53 (73.6%) for 490 yards, 3 Passing TDs and 1 Rushing TD; with 3 Interceptions * 2000: 228/415 (54.9%) for 2914 yards, 16 Passing TDs and 2 Rushing TDs; with 18 Interceptions * 2001: 221/377 (58.6%) for 2717 yards, 13 Passing TDs and 1 Rushing TD; with 12 Interceptions * 2002: 309/489 (63.2%) for 3942 yards, 33 Passing TDs and 4 Rushing TDs; with 10 InterceptionsTwo very mediocre years followed by one fairly brilliant one. Bradford and Luck smoke these numbers.
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EBF
Footballguy
As for the OP, I think it's hard to get an accurate perspective on previous eras. Between ESPN, talk radio, other TV networks, and the internet, there are about a billion different media outlets pumping out content these days. They saturate the market with hype about the flavor of the week stories. Luck has been one of those stories in the second half of this college football season, so of course we've been subjected to a deluge of puffery.
I also think there's a tendency to make bold declarations about each new crop of prospects. Just think about all of the receiver prospects we've seen in the past decade. First it was "David Terrell is the best WR prospect since Randy Moss." Then it was Charles Rogers. Then Larry Fitzgerald. Then Calvin Johnson. Now AJ Green. In between we've had glowing hyperbole for additional guys like Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Crabtree, and Dez Bryant.
There's definitely a tendency to exaggerate the differences between the elite prospects in the current draft and the elite prospects in recent drafts. Having said that, I do think there are legitimate differences sometimes. The #1 pick is often spent on a QB by necessity. Teams at the bottom of the standings rarely have good QBs. You need a good QB to win in this league. Therefore teams at the top of the draft usually take a QB, even if they have to shoehorn someone into that pick who really doesn't deserve it. Alex Smith and Michael Vick both went 1.01, but one was a question mark all along while the other was seen as a can't-miss phenom.
I think we can separate top 5 QB prospects into a few distinct categories:
Can't-miss franchise QB
Very good QB worthy of a top 5 pick
Reach
I can't speak with any confidence about the pre Manning/Leaf era because I wasn't following the game closely. Of the drafts that happened since then, this is about how I would break it down attempting to be as objective as possible. I'm going to leave out 1999 because I don't remember what people thought of those guys:
Can't-miss franchise QB
2001 - Michael Vick
Very good QB worthy of a top 5 pick
2010 - Sam Bradford
2009 - Matthew Stafford
2009 - Mark Sanchez
2008 - Matt Ryan
2004 - Eli Manning
2004 - Philip Rivers
2003 - Carson Palmer
2002 - David Carr
2002 - Joey Harrington
Reach
2007 - JaMarcus Russell
2006 - Vince Young
2005 - Alex Smith
People definitely had question marks about Vick, but there was little doubt that he was a phenom with unique talents. The 1.01 was seen as a major commodity that season and Atlanta paid a hefty price to secure that pick. Eli and Sanchez also commanded big trades, but Sanchez wasn't even seen as the consensus top QB in his draft and Eli never quite had that incredible hype. He was seen as a good, solid QB who would most likely succeed in the NFL, but not a world beater.
I'm tempted to put Bradford and Palmer in the first group with Vick. Of all the guys in that big second group, they're the ones who seemed to cultivate the most hype. The only reason Bradford isn't in that first group is probably because of his injuries. Had he stayed healthy and posted another monster season last year, he would've been the slam dunk 1.01 pick. As things were, there were some doubts leading up to the draft about whether he was worth the risk. That disqualifies him, IMO. I already said my piece on Palmer. I think his reputation outside Pac-10 country was greater than within. I don't think close followers of the conference really felt he was some incredible superstar. He had good tools, some high profile big games, a strong final season, and he played for a highly visible team. He really wasn't that great at USC though. Not even close, actually.
Luck is much more accomplished at this stage of his career than Palmer was. I think he clearly has more hype than Eli, Stafford, Ryan, and Carr. Those guys were not seen as a reaches in the top 3, but they were not exactly viewed as surefire saviors either (maybe Eli, but again, no one thought he was as good as Peyton at the same stage of his career).
So, to finally answer the question, I would put Luck up there with Vick, Peyton, and maybe a healthy Bradford as can't-miss franchise QBs. When he goes 1.01 it won't be an example of a QB needy team shoehorning an overrated prospect into that slot in hopes of solving its problems (JaMarcus, VY, Smith). Nor will it be a team settling for a solid top 10 QB who's seen as a safe investment if not a surefire Pro Bowler (Ryan, Stafford, Carr, Eli). It will be a team VERY excited to get a rare chance at someone viewed as a slam dunk franchise savior. That only really happens 2-3 times per decade at the QB position.
I also think there's a tendency to make bold declarations about each new crop of prospects. Just think about all of the receiver prospects we've seen in the past decade. First it was "David Terrell is the best WR prospect since Randy Moss." Then it was Charles Rogers. Then Larry Fitzgerald. Then Calvin Johnson. Now AJ Green. In between we've had glowing hyperbole for additional guys like Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards, Michael Crabtree, and Dez Bryant.
There's definitely a tendency to exaggerate the differences between the elite prospects in the current draft and the elite prospects in recent drafts. Having said that, I do think there are legitimate differences sometimes. The #1 pick is often spent on a QB by necessity. Teams at the bottom of the standings rarely have good QBs. You need a good QB to win in this league. Therefore teams at the top of the draft usually take a QB, even if they have to shoehorn someone into that pick who really doesn't deserve it. Alex Smith and Michael Vick both went 1.01, but one was a question mark all along while the other was seen as a can't-miss phenom.
I think we can separate top 5 QB prospects into a few distinct categories:
Can't-miss franchise QB
Very good QB worthy of a top 5 pick
Reach
I can't speak with any confidence about the pre Manning/Leaf era because I wasn't following the game closely. Of the drafts that happened since then, this is about how I would break it down attempting to be as objective as possible. I'm going to leave out 1999 because I don't remember what people thought of those guys:
Can't-miss franchise QB
2001 - Michael Vick
Very good QB worthy of a top 5 pick
2010 - Sam Bradford
2009 - Matthew Stafford
2009 - Mark Sanchez
2008 - Matt Ryan
2004 - Eli Manning
2004 - Philip Rivers
2003 - Carson Palmer
2002 - David Carr
2002 - Joey Harrington
Reach
2007 - JaMarcus Russell
2006 - Vince Young
2005 - Alex Smith
People definitely had question marks about Vick, but there was little doubt that he was a phenom with unique talents. The 1.01 was seen as a major commodity that season and Atlanta paid a hefty price to secure that pick. Eli and Sanchez also commanded big trades, but Sanchez wasn't even seen as the consensus top QB in his draft and Eli never quite had that incredible hype. He was seen as a good, solid QB who would most likely succeed in the NFL, but not a world beater.
I'm tempted to put Bradford and Palmer in the first group with Vick. Of all the guys in that big second group, they're the ones who seemed to cultivate the most hype. The only reason Bradford isn't in that first group is probably because of his injuries. Had he stayed healthy and posted another monster season last year, he would've been the slam dunk 1.01 pick. As things were, there were some doubts leading up to the draft about whether he was worth the risk. That disqualifies him, IMO. I already said my piece on Palmer. I think his reputation outside Pac-10 country was greater than within. I don't think close followers of the conference really felt he was some incredible superstar. He had good tools, some high profile big games, a strong final season, and he played for a highly visible team. He really wasn't that great at USC though. Not even close, actually.
Luck is much more accomplished at this stage of his career than Palmer was. I think he clearly has more hype than Eli, Stafford, Ryan, and Carr. Those guys were not seen as a reaches in the top 3, but they were not exactly viewed as surefire saviors either (maybe Eli, but again, no one thought he was as good as Peyton at the same stage of his career).
So, to finally answer the question, I would put Luck up there with Vick, Peyton, and maybe a healthy Bradford as can't-miss franchise QBs. When he goes 1.01 it won't be an example of a QB needy team shoehorning an overrated prospect into that slot in hopes of solving its problems (JaMarcus, VY, Smith). Nor will it be a team settling for a solid top 10 QB who's seen as a safe investment if not a surefire Pro Bowler (Ryan, Stafford, Carr, Eli). It will be a team VERY excited to get a rare chance at someone viewed as a slam dunk franchise savior. That only really happens 2-3 times per decade at the QB position.
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gump
Footballguy
Eli was top 6 all-time in the SEC in TDs, PYards, and QB Rating. He led OM to 3 winning seasons and their only SEC West Division title. They hadn't beaten Alabama in 15 years...Eli beat them twice.Eli was a very good college QB...and showed plenty of size, arm strength, accuracy, and presence to impress scouts...regardless of his name.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I remember an FF magazine that I owned that year which had an article that favorably compared that class of QBs (McGwire, Marinovich, Favre, and Nagle) to the 1983 QB draft class. They were a bit off.Man, I remember Marinovich being hyped when he was a freshman in high school. His college career was almost anti-climactic and it seemed like he was drafted on his potential alone.Oh, and don't forget that Marinovich wasn't the highest-drafted quarterback of the 1991 draft. That honor belongs to (drum roll) Dan McGwire of San Diego State!! GDB the Seahawks! Tallest quarterback in NFL history at 6-8. Also an admitted PED user.
The third QB taken in that draft? Brett Favre.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
And it was never doubted that he would be the #1 overall pick in a class that had Rivers and Big Ben. How does all of this (including his name) not make him one of, if not the best QB prospect ever? Even if he isn't the best prospect he damn sure is up there.
CalBear
Footballguy
Well, OK, Elway did manage to go 6-5 one year (3-4 Pac-10), which these days might have been enough to earn him a spot in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl against Nevada. As opposed to Peyton, who won at least 10 games every full year he started, playing in the SEC.
massraider
Footballguy
The question isn't who had the better college career, it is who was the better prospect coming out of school.And as a pro prospect, Elway was pretty much flawless. Ran like a deer, best arm anyone had ever seen up to that point, and wasn't dumb (Stanford). I clearly remember Manning coming out of school, and he didn't receive the same hype as Aikman, let alone Elway.
massraider
Footballguy
Ah. Right on.
Frenchy Fuqua
Footballguy
Elway was the guy. Bradshaw wasn't far behind. Nor was Steve Young.
