King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I think he has just of good of chance as Loveland/Warren at a discount
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
TE Mason Taylor, NYJ (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter socrates
- Start date
Instinctive
Footballguy
These would be good and smart ideas. Sure hope that's what happens.
Been reading very up and down stuff on Fields out of TC. A definite puzzle...but I gotta believe it's only relevant for redraft. Dynasty wise, if he's got the talent it's not like Fields can suck and also remain QB right?
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Can I at least win before I stop changing? Been a looooong drought.Never change, buddy.
Agreed.
I know there's lots of passion about players and takes but please be more cool to each other and keep the talk completely on the players and not shots at other posters.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don’t think drafting him in the Shark Pool ‘25 Mock Draft is going to be much consolation when he’s killing my dynasty team in ‘26 or ‘27. (I didn’t have a pick until he was gonzo.)
Soulfly3
Footballguy
moments of cruelty such as these remind us we're only human.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I have no evidence to back it up, and it can be written off by people just claiming they do it without real proof; but I'm a staunch believer that the concept of "just stream 'X' position" is said about 100x more than it ever actually happens (outside kickers, and really... who is still playing with kickers... gross). It reminds of the once popular "his cost in rookie drafts is too high, just buy him later at a discount next season". IME, this rarely, if ever, happens.
In Dynasty, no one is streaming anything unless you pre-drafted the guys you plan on streaming. Waivers are barren, and when a player on waivers shows even an inkling of value they are added to a roster.
Even in redraft, using TE as an example, I'd be hard pressed to believe there aren't at least 24 TEs drafted. Maybe in leagues with an incredibly shallow bench people aren't drafting backups. But those leagues seem few and far between. So again, your "steam the position" prospect is based on still needing to draft the guys you plan on steaming week to week.
So while the proponents of "just stream the position" are likely arguing from a value perspective that TE8 vs TE20 score so similarly you may as well wait. And based on what I pointed out, you're then locked in to having to draft multiple TEs in order to stream, taking up more valuable bench spots that could be spent on more meaningful/impactful positions than TE like WRs and RBs (after all, we are building this case based on the streamers proposition most TEs outside the top 3-4 hardly matter). How many are you drafting for this streaming plan? At least 3? Even if we just say 2 (like just about everyone else in the league), and continue with the premise that since those 2 are cheaper than anyone else's you're gaining value; how productive is this streaming? How predictive is TE scoring, especially when you are drafting guys outside the top 20 TEs? IME, by the time you get that late the majority of a TEs fantasy production/scoring is TDs. If they score a TD, boom you likely have yourself a TE6-15 week. Haven't we all agreed for years now TD scoring is wildly unpredictably? Especially when compared to a fantasy players other routes of getting points like receptions and yardage?
I get it, two pages of arguing between posters about Mason Taylor and Justin Fields and a bunch of interpersonal dynamics and psychology and I'm the shrink on the msg board, and after reading it all "that's what you came away with?!?" But it is haha. It's been a bugaboo for me as much as the "buy him later at a discount" stuff. It sounds like this easy solution to a complex problem, but feels like all it takes is about 2 minutes of critically questioning it to make it fall apart. It's not to say it's impossible to successfully employ a steaming strategy for TEs. But there are at least a dozen factors which would need to be accounted for like ADP/cost to acquire, average scoring, roster/bench size and utilization, predictability of scoring, etc. to even say if it IS in fact better than the alternative. And really, I don't think half the people are even using the word streaming in the right context. Drafting two cheap TEs as opposed to one mid-priced and one cheap TE isn't what I think was ever intended by the term streaming. IMO, it really always meant pluck a guy off waivers for that week who has a good matchup, then drop them and pick up another for next week. I've only ever really seen it done with DEF/ST and K; and even then, it was largely unpredictable and often a distant second place to just drafting a good (or even middle of the pack) consistent starter at those positions. And then spot streaming for one week during the bye.
What I think people actually mean is something like "punt the position". IOW, don't put any real draft value into the TE position and just grab who's left and hope for the best. That is something I think I can get behind a little more. Outside of TEP leagues, I do think the position is overvalued in general. But I still feel like there are a handful of high upside guys in the mid to late rounds worth taking a swing on for a small increased cost vs. waiting till the end of the draft and getting leftovers for no cost; especially when looking at that small increased cost vs. potential payoff. Lot of speculation involved of course, but just my two cents on it.
In Dynasty, no one is streaming anything unless you pre-drafted the guys you plan on streaming. Waivers are barren, and when a player on waivers shows even an inkling of value they are added to a roster.
Even in redraft, using TE as an example, I'd be hard pressed to believe there aren't at least 24 TEs drafted. Maybe in leagues with an incredibly shallow bench people aren't drafting backups. But those leagues seem few and far between. So again, your "steam the position" prospect is based on still needing to draft the guys you plan on steaming week to week.
So while the proponents of "just stream the position" are likely arguing from a value perspective that TE8 vs TE20 score so similarly you may as well wait. And based on what I pointed out, you're then locked in to having to draft multiple TEs in order to stream, taking up more valuable bench spots that could be spent on more meaningful/impactful positions than TE like WRs and RBs (after all, we are building this case based on the streamers proposition most TEs outside the top 3-4 hardly matter). How many are you drafting for this streaming plan? At least 3? Even if we just say 2 (like just about everyone else in the league), and continue with the premise that since those 2 are cheaper than anyone else's you're gaining value; how productive is this streaming? How predictive is TE scoring, especially when you are drafting guys outside the top 20 TEs? IME, by the time you get that late the majority of a TEs fantasy production/scoring is TDs. If they score a TD, boom you likely have yourself a TE6-15 week. Haven't we all agreed for years now TD scoring is wildly unpredictably? Especially when compared to a fantasy players other routes of getting points like receptions and yardage?
I get it, two pages of arguing between posters about Mason Taylor and Justin Fields and a bunch of interpersonal dynamics and psychology and I'm the shrink on the msg board, and after reading it all "that's what you came away with?!?" But it is haha. It's been a bugaboo for me as much as the "buy him later at a discount" stuff. It sounds like this easy solution to a complex problem, but feels like all it takes is about 2 minutes of critically questioning it to make it fall apart. It's not to say it's impossible to successfully employ a steaming strategy for TEs. But there are at least a dozen factors which would need to be accounted for like ADP/cost to acquire, average scoring, roster/bench size and utilization, predictability of scoring, etc. to even say if it IS in fact better than the alternative. And really, I don't think half the people are even using the word streaming in the right context. Drafting two cheap TEs as opposed to one mid-priced and one cheap TE isn't what I think was ever intended by the term streaming. IMO, it really always meant pluck a guy off waivers for that week who has a good matchup, then drop them and pick up another for next week. I've only ever really seen it done with DEF/ST and K; and even then, it was largely unpredictable and often a distant second place to just drafting a good (or even middle of the pack) consistent starter at those positions. And then spot streaming for one week during the bye.
What I think people actually mean is something like "punt the position". IOW, don't put any real draft value into the TE position and just grab who's left and hope for the best. That is something I think I can get behind a little more. Outside of TEP leagues, I do think the position is overvalued in general. But I still feel like there are a handful of high upside guys in the mid to late rounds worth taking a swing on for a small increased cost vs. waiting till the end of the draft and getting leftovers for no cost; especially when looking at that small increased cost vs. potential payoff. Lot of speculation involved of course, but just my two cents on it.
Last edited:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree with this - it’s one of those colloquialisms often uttered but difficult to implement.
The place I see it as effective is in 1-QB leagues where one might wait and do a QB-freefall. If I can stack value in the 1st 11 rounds, then grab a Fields/Darnold/Stafford combo in the 12th, 15th, & 18th (I just looked up none of their ADP) then I could “stream” those QBs and play the matchups.
I’ve never had success trying to stream other positions because as you suggested, at least 24 are typically in a 12 team format.
But that’s also bench-dependent. I played in a league with 10 starters and 7 bench spots once and the FA list was constantly churning. I do not enjoy that format myself, but in that context maybe it’s easier to stream TE.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Yeah - Dynasty and redraft are completely different animals.I agree with this - it’s one of those colloquialisms often uttered but difficult to implement.
The place I see it as effective is in 1-QB leagues where one might wait and do a QB-freefall. If I can stack value in the 1st 11 rounds, then grab a Fields/Darnold/Stafford combo in the 12th, 15th, & 18th (I just looked up none of their ADP) then I could “stream” those QBs and play the matchups.
I’ve never had success trying to stream other positions because as you suggested, at least 24 are typically in a 12 team format.
But that’s also bench-dependent. I played in a league with 10 starters and 7 bench spots once and the FA list was constantly churning. I do not enjoy that format myself, but in that context maybe it’s easier to stream TE.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Yeah good note with the QBs. I do that often as well, this year will be another year. But it does incur the price of normally having to prioritize and spend higher on that 2nd QB. The guy who drafted Allen can basically take ANYONE as they only need the guy for Allen's bye week. Where if you are waiting on QB to stream (or as I normally look at it, buy two lottery tickets to increase the chances you have one who hits) you really gotta grab both in a short span. A lot of times I will back to back them so I don't get stuck by a QB run where everyone starts taking backups and you see your pool of "I'd gladly take any 2 of these 6 guys later" turn into an empty pool haha.I agree with this - it’s one of those colloquialisms often uttered but difficult to implement.
The place I see it as effective is in 1-QB leagues where one might wait and do a QB-freefall. If I can stack value in the 1st 11 rounds, then grab a Fields/Darnold/Stafford combo in the 12th, 15th, & 18th (I just looked up none of their ADP) then I could “stream” those QBs and play the matchups.
I’ve never had success trying to stream other positions because as you suggested, at least 24 are typically in a 12 team format.
But that’s also bench-dependent. I played in a league with 10 starters and 7 bench spots once and the FA list was constantly churning. I do not enjoy that format myself, but in that context maybe it’s easier to stream TE.
darksideofoz
Footballguy
Specifically about what was discussed during the Fields is good for TE discussion, if I'm not sitting on one of the top few (elite) TEs, then I'm playing matchups all season. I will use the TE7-12 plus whatever good matchups pop up for any other TE on my roster or available on waivers. Streaming doesn't mean you must use 2 TE20 level TEs.Yeah good note with the QBs. I do that often as well, this year will be another year. But it does incur the price of normally having to prioritize and spend higher on that 2nd QB. The guy who drafted Allen can basically take ANYONE as they only need the guy for Allen's bye week. Where if you are waiting on QB to stream (or as I normally look at it, buy two lottery tickets to increase the chances you have one who hits) you really gotta grab both in a short span. A lot of times I will back to back them so I don't get stuck by a QB run where everyone starts taking backups and you see your pool of "I'd gladly take any 2 of these 6 guys later" turn into an empty pool haha.I agree with this - it’s one of those colloquialisms often uttered but difficult to implement.
The place I see it as effective is in 1-QB leagues where one might wait and do a QB-freefall. If I can stack value in the 1st 11 rounds, then grab a Fields/Darnold/Stafford combo in the 12th, 15th, & 18th (I just looked up none of their ADP) then I could “stream” those QBs and play the matchups.
I’ve never had success trying to stream other positions because as you suggested, at least 24 are typically in a 12 team format.
But that’s also bench-dependent. I played in a league with 10 starters and 7 bench spots once and the FA list was constantly churning. I do not enjoy that format myself, but in that context maybe it’s easier to stream TE.
I still stream D/ST with great results. I used to for QBs, but I don't play in any 1QB redraft leagues anymore so that part of my tactics has went away.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
IDP leagues are great for streaming CB as well. They’re the kickers of IDP - so many of them, and the irony is the worse a player they are the busier they are in the game because opponents pick on
Them.
I’ve had more success grabbing a CB facing a pick-prone QB than rolling out my highly ranked CB.
ETA: removed S, because the top S do produce a ton of tackles, but it depends on their DC & how they’re deployed.
darksideofoz
Footballguy
I've played IDP for many years. I do stream a fair amount, until I find that gem that I can set and mostly forget.
However, this year is my 1st time playing IDP where CB is a separate position. But that is dynasty so streaming will be a bit difficult.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Tbh I thought that too until I joined a 16 team IDP with CB & S separated.
Then did a startup in same format.
At any given time there are 4-5 start-able CB on the FA list. I have a core 2-3 but I’ve had injuries over the years and it’s the only position I’ve never had to make a trade for a replacement.
I’ve had a harder time getting kickers in those leagues and have had to deal one. lol
ETA *16 team, not 6.
In actual Mason Taylor news he was not spotted at practice today and he was NOT on an injury report that Glenn provided. Hopefully a rest day but at this point no one knows.
Most likely a nothingburger but I'm allowed to overreact considering he's my most rostered player.
Most likely a nothingburger but I'm allowed to overreact considering he's my most rostered player.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yo, keep that unfounded panic to yourself, homie. We’re supposed to be excellent to each other.
Probably had a cavity or ate a bad taco or something.
darksideofoz
Footballguy
I would rack up cap penalties if I keep adding and dropping players. I'm rebuilding right now so that is not an option. Once I'm able to contend I'll probably be more willing to do that.
rockaction
Footballguy
12 team league S and CB separate. It’s a couple games at a time, but essentially streaming and we have a guy in our league with a bizarro passion for CBs. He has eight. It’s a good league. We have four or five from these boards, and this guy has indeed won (six years ago?—he has McCaffrey and Saquon) but even my nephew, who knows very little about FF, was a little surprised at that many CBs on a 48 man roster. Point is, if you’re in a 12 team league you can likely stream to a degree.
Ever hear of Jonny the Greek? IDP Guys. He does a free streaming newsletter for CBs. I can go look and get you the address if you want. I’ve found it helpful.
Last edited:
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ah - I’m in no cap leagues. That’s a big difference for sure.
ETA: I mean that both in terms of “salary”, and “honesty” if we’re using the modern nomenclature.
rockaction
Footballguy
Oh, I missed that. NM. I can still get the newsletter if you’d like.
rockaction
Footballguy
Don't ever let anyone tell you that Hot Sauce Guy hasn't been hanging out with Gen Z. Hey, Gramps, cool it on the hipster tip.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m a man of the people. No cap.
Ankle injury.
No details, hopefully small thing, but would rather he hate a bad taco.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Allow me to provide context for my argument...
Most of my leagues are redraft and one of my dynasty leagues has short benches. Yes 24-30 te get drafted or are rostered, which means there's a pretty solid group of potential mismatches each week on the waiver. Taysom Hill scores 3 tds in a week somewhere. The same production you would get from Mark Andrews last season (on aggregate) was sitting on the waiver each week in multiple places.
Basically you're completely right, my argument doesn't stand at all in my other dynasty league. Deep rosters, salary cap, ipd, whole 9. Would be the worst take. Coming at it from that context I can totally see where wires are getting crossed and tensions were raised. We all just needed a little breather.
I think "punt the position" is close, but to me it says you're still aiming to find your starter in the final rounds. In "stream" who you draft doesn't really matter because they're not long for your roster anyway. If you're going at "streaming" hard, you draft based on week one and two's defense. I'm not that hardcore about it.
Also, thank you for focusing on the /real/ drama going on here - who is drafting 3 te in a redraft?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Honestly there's no such thing as a bad taco. All tacos are good. Sometimes the results are unpredictable is all.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
The flora needed some rounding out.
His high ankle sprain is my worst training camp update of the year so far. My most drafted player, feel like I can't have nice things.
Hopefully fine for season but would guess this keeps him out most if not all of camp and for a rookie TE that seems kind of like a big deal.
Hopefully fine for season but would guess this keeps him out most if not all of camp and for a rookie TE that seems kind of like a big deal.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
That is a bummer for sure.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Awe man, high ankle - I didn’t see that update. While not career threatening, it’s never good. Hopefully it’s not IR worthy.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Terpman22
Footballguy
Haha no lies here, but I also live in SoCal
Not trying to derail this thread but I sadly did a "fast food tacos" blind taste test Identifier lately and nailed all 4. I'm not super proud of myself but got em!
Burger King
Del Taco
Taco Bell
Jack in The Box
Back to Mason Taylor though, I am starting to think he can be a TE1 this year as a rookie
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I worked in Sandy Eggo as the PM on a big project (IT server cut-over after a company acquisition) and was always amazed that a Del Taco would have a line out the door, while the authentic taqueria on the next block would be empty.
I asked my local counterpart about it & he said “oh, people aren’t going to Del Taco because they want Mexican food. They’re going there because they want Del Taco” and suddenly it made perfect sense.
Ok sorry back on topic, I wonder if Mason Taylor likes Del Taco?
Terpman22
Footballguy
Mason Taylor projection for the year: 60/722/5
And man, I lived down in the Eggo for 10+ years (Can't say I shouldn't have left b/c I have wife/kids/house now in LB)
But man, that weather down there, the womens, the lack of traffic and YOU CAN'T FIND A CALIFORNIA BURRITO outside San Diego county.
Always super nostalgic every time I go back down
wgoldsph
Footballguy
So your curse already strikes. I'm going to get shirts that say "Hot Sauce Guy cursed my fantasy team" and hand them out to everyone here.
Similar threads
