Is Crabtree overrated in dynasty circles? (1 Viewer)

[NorrisB]

1. Lacks ideal speed and size

2. Poor work ethic

3. Drops

4. Sloppy routes

etc...

I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty. His greatest asset coming out of college was supposed to be his hands, route running determination, but so far, he has shown to be very unreliable hands, poor routes and he just doesnt seem to care and he just seems to get a pass because of the team he's on which isnt right.

What are your guys' thoughts on this subject

 

[RockHard]

I dont believe that Crabtree is a great athlete I see no explosion from him when coming out of breaks, he is slow, he carries the ball like a loaf of bread, he isnt big or physically imposing and he wore a lavender shirt to the draft.

 

[thehornet]

he's gonna be a stud someday soon.

 

[Sweet Love]

For some reason, I was never a fan...have never owned him and doubt I will. He seems like he is "lumbering" along, and while that may play well when you are facing 5'8 corners with 4.6 speed in college, it does not play out well in the pros. He certainly has not had any consistency at the QB position (I believe he has had both Smiths, Carr and Hill in his 20+ games thus far), but he just has not made much of the opportunities given to him. On the flipside, we debated a while back, "what if Rodgers went to SF and Smith went to GB?". While no one would say Smith would be putting up Rodgers-type numbers and vice versa, the consensus was Rodgers would not be doing as well and Smith would be doing better. I think the same could be applied to Crabtree; if he went to a proper situation with a decent QB cemented in place, he would probably be flirting with a 1k season right now...still don't think he will ever have that "Fitzgerald-like" impact, but probably could do better else where.

 

[plyka]

1. Lacks ideal speed and size2. Poor work ethic3. Drops4. Sloppy routesetc...I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty. His greatest asset coming out of college was supposed to be his hands, route running determination, but so far, he has shown to be very unreliable hands, poor routes and he just doesnt seem to care and he just seems to get a pass because of the team he's on which isnt right.What are your guys' thoughts on this subject

Your post, quite frankly, doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not sure if it was a small sample size you saw and came to your determinations, but they are wrong in most respects.1) Crabtree has prototypical size and good speed. He does lack, elite speed, but there can absolutely be zero doubts about his size.2) His work ethic is not poor. This seems more like media propaganda to me than anything. From all i've read, his teammates all rave about his work ethic. There have been some media reports however. So I guess you're kind of right about this.3) This i think is the point you're most incorrect on. Crabtree has some of the best hands that i've personally ever seen.4) If you compare his route running to other people his age, his route running is not any more sloppy. This is one reason why WRs take longer to develop than other positions.Here is a scout report from NFL.comositives: Ultra-productive, competitive playmaker with prototypical size. Excellent hands; snatches the ball from the air within or outside his body. Secures the ball quickly in his strong hands after the catch. Uses his size, initial quickness and hands to get inside or outside separation off the line of scrimmage. Runs quick slants and has the suddenness to take the route upfield. Excellent body control to high-point the ball in traffic, adjust to any poor throw, tiptoe on the sideline and find his way through creases. Can turn his man out, plant and get the inside shoulder, giving the quarterback a big target down the seam. Quick to stop and adjust for the ball behind him, whether purposely or not. Used outside, in the slot and even in the backfield at times. Always tries to make a play after the catch, keeping his legs moving when tackled low, stiff-arming smaller defenders on the run and extending the ball to get to the first down or goal line. Rubs defenders for other receivers. Displays a good attitude and appears to be a solid teammate without major ego issues. Negatives: Needs to speed up his release, as he jumps off the line too often trying to lull his defender to sleep. Does not have the elite speed to separate from quick corners on the outside, although the point typically was moot at Tech because he could overpower collegiate talent. Not sudden with the ball in his hands, dancing awkwardly at times instead of using his size and strength. Must improve consistency on downfield blocking, as he has the size to be effective but gives inconsistent effort to get to his man or sustain. Runs with the ball loose in the open field.

 

[King of the Jungle]

College football sold this kid very well to the NFL. You pinpointed the reasons, unless he starts busting his hump he will continue on the underwhelming path. I admit I was fooled but some signs were there. I remember watching a Texas Tech game and the announcers were drooling over this 6'4" 225lb Andre Johnson clone by the name of Michael Crabtree. Well....he is 6'1" 210, probably runs a 4.5-4.6 on a fast surface, and is not sharp on his routes. Andre Johnson.......like I said....they fooled me.

 

[EBF]

It depends on where you rank him. I no longer think he's a top 10 talent, but I don't think top 20 is a huge stretch. I would compare him to Hines Ward, Jerricho Cotchery, and Anquan Boldin. None of them have great speed, but they're strong, they catch the ball well, and they can make people miss in the open field. Those guys have had a lot of top 20-30 seasons between them. Crabtree can be that type of player.

Crabtree ranks 31st among all NFL WRs in targets. He ranks 36th in FF points. So while he's been a minor disappointment and certainly hasn't looked like a standout, he's producing more or less what you would expect give his number of opportunities. When you consider that his QBs are poor and his coaching staff is suspect, I think you can attribute at least a little bit of his struggles to the situation.

He has already shown strong signs that he can be an average NFL starting WR. It remains to be seen if he can take the next step and become a true standout. I kind of doubt that he'll ever be a superstar, but I still think he's capable of multiple 1000+ yard seasons.

 

[Concept Coop]

How quickly we forget that it can take 2+ seasons to learn how to run NFL caliber routes.

As a rule of thumb, I think it is wise to wait 2 or 3 seasons before writing WRs off, especially those with the talent of Crabtree. And, it is not like he has ever had a starting caliber NFL QB throwing him the ball. I am not saying he is a stud, and yes, he was overrated this off-season. But it is too early to cry bust.

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

I really don't get this post. SF sucks, yet Crabtree (for all intent and purpose, in his first year due to his holdout) has clearly shown he's a #1 WR. Is he Randy Moss? 'Course not. Did he start off on the wrong foot with his holdout? Yes.

Is it waaay too early to call him overrated? Uh, yeah...

 

[squistion]

I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty.

Considering what I have gotten with a 1.08 over the years, I would give that up in a nanosecond if I could get Crabtree. I might even go as high as 1.06, but that would turn on who was available and what my needs would be.No, he isn't what we thought he was. But I have seen flashes of brillance (which could be a tease) that tends to confirm in my mind that the talent is there and it is just a question of having the right opportunity. I am still impressed with how, after missing the first 5 weeks of the 2009 season and have less than 2 weeks with the playbook, that he had 5 catches for 56 yards in his first NFL game and followed that up with 6 catches for 81 yards the following week. And his numbers for that year of 48 catches for 625 yards and 2 TDs were not that bad, all things considered. I dunno, perhaps it was a mirage like Michael Clayton, but I don't think so.

I haven't done my dynasty rankings for next year yet, but I am guessing I would have him around #18-20 WR spot (although that is based on perceived upside, his numbers could well be as a #3 again in 2011). I don't believe in him to the extent I did going into the season, but I agree with a quote from the Sunday game recap from this site, "He is a receiver who needs a more accurate quarterback to succeed and reach his full potential." Perhaps the new HC will bring in the right complimentary QB for Crabtree next year.

 

[NorrisB]

1. Lacks ideal speed and size2. Poor work ethic3. Drops4. Sloppy routesetc...I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty. His greatest asset coming out of college was supposed to be his hands, route running determination, but so far, he has shown to be very unreliable hands, poor routes and he just doesnt seem to care and he just seems to get a pass because of the team he's on which isnt right.What are your guys' thoughts on this subject

Your post, quite frankly, doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not sure if it was a small sample size you saw and came to your determinations, but they are wrong in most respects.1) Crabtree has prototypical size and good speed. He does lack, elite speed, but there can absolutely be zero doubts about his size.2) His work ethic is not poor. This seems more like media propaganda to me than anything. From all i've read, his teammates all rave about his work ethic. There have been some media reports however. So I guess you're kind of right about this.3) This i think is the point you're most incorrect on. Crabtree has some of the best hands that i've personally ever seen.4) If you compare his route running to other people his age, his route running is not any more sloppy. This is one reason why WRs take longer to develop than other positions.

I disagree with everything you said and cant believe you posted a scouting report lol. One thing you cant dispute is he has been amongst the league leaders in drops two years in a row now. His size and speed are not ideal, he measured in at the combine at 6'0'' not exactly Calvin Johnson zero doubt material lol.

 

[JamesTheScot]

There are two kinds of over-rated.

1) Over-estimation of talent

2) Unreasonable expectations

I think he's over-rated right now because of #2. He's a 2nd year WR on a team with a very suspect passing game. There is so much wrong with his situation, we can't really separate his talent from that situation in our evaluation.

Unfortunately, there's possibly another season or two of transition pains as the offense gets over-hauled under the new regime. And are we really sure the the SF front office is actually capable of solving the problem with their next HC hire? Or are they bumbling along with their next HC likely to be just another short termer bound for unemployment after his team fails to do better than .500 over a three year span?

So I think he is probably over-rated in dynasty just because of a tumultuous situation for the next season or so. The problem with players of his pedigree is that someone is still drinking the kool-aid and will still pay a premium price hoping that next year will be that bust-out year.

 

[gotexansgo]

I disagree with everything you said and cant believe you posted a scouting report lol. One thing you cant dispute is he has been amongst the league leaders in drops two years in a row now. His size and speed are not ideal, he measured in at the combine at 6'0'' not exactly Calvin Johnson zero doubt material lol.

Why does size matter? If anyone watched the guy in college and believed he was actually 6'4" well then thats uyour own fault. Nobody ever said he had elite speed, but an NFL WR doesnt need that to succeed. How quickly some people are ready to give up on some players just amazes me, especially a WR which is a position that typically takes a few years to adjust to in the NFL, also lets not forget he was a QB in high school and only had what 2 years at WR in college?I still believe the guy has all the potential in the world, I dont buy into him not having a good work ethic, and think once he has at least an average NFL QB he will start producing consistently.

 

[EBF]

Also, size isn't as simple as height. Crabtree is only about 6'0"-6'1", but if memory serves me correctly he weighs ~ 215 pounds. That makes him a "big" receiver, if not necessarily a tall one.

 

[shadyridr]

drops? This guy might have the best hands in the league. Also you forget to mention his phenomenal run after the catch ability. With a decent QB dude would be a stud. Im convinced of that.

 

[shadyridr]

size?

Nicks is 6-0, 215

Crabtree is 6-1, 214

 

[shadyridr]

I disagree with everything you said and cant believe you posted a scouting report lol. One thing you cant dispute is he has been amongst the league leaders in drops two years in a row now. His size and speed are not ideal, he measured in at the combine at 6'0'' not exactly Calvin Johnson zero doubt material lol.

I cant find 2009 stats but 2010 drop stats dont seem very earth shatteringPass DroppedRank Player Team Stats1 Wes Welker NE 132t Terrell Owens Cin 112t Reggie Wayne Ind 114t Miles Austin Dal 104t Brandon Marshall Mia 106t Danny Amendola StL 86t Brent Celek Phi 86t Jerricho Cotchery NYJ 86t Pierre Garcon Ind 86t Brandon Gibson StL 86t Fred Jackson Buf 86t Stevie Johnson Buf 86t Chad Ochocinco Cin 86t Brandon Pettigrew Det 86t Steve Smith Car 816t Steve Breaston Ari 716t Michael Crabtree SF 716t Donald Driver GB 716t Tony Gonzalez Atl 716t Aaron Hernandez NE 716t Devin Hester Chi 716t Andre Johnson Hou 716t Dustin Keller NYJ 716t Mike Williams TB 7

 

[RockHard]

size?Nicks is 6-0, 215Crabtree is 6-1, 214

Crabtree doesn't have the same mentality as Nicks. Nicks seems the relish contact, watch how he played against Charles Woodson last week. Crabtree's game isnt predicated on being more physical than his opponent. Nicks "plays" bigger than his size.

 

[shadyridr]

size?Nicks is 6-0, 215Crabtree is 6-1, 214

Crabtree doesn't have the same mentality as Nicks. Nicks seems the relish contact, watch how he played against Charles Woodson last week. Crabtree's game isnt predicated on being more physical than his opponent. Nicks "plays" bigger than his size.

That may be the case but using his size as a negative doesnt make any sense.

 

[flc735]

his value it too low to call him overrated

he had a great rookie season considering how it played out and lets see how he does with a decent qb.

offensive scheme is going to change with this new coach so theres another added variable that could play in crabtrees favor

top flight wr prospects (aj, dez, charles rodgers, fitz, crab) have a 50% bust rate. its very likely you will be saying these same things about 2-3 of these awesome wr prospects coming into the draft 2 years from now.

^^thats why year 2-3 is the year to buy these wr's, not year 0

the overrated guys right now are aj green, floyd, baldwin and julio

 

[Dave Larkin]

Crabtree is not worth shouting about and doesn't wow you much, but there have been enough flashes from him in his first two seasons when the QB play was good to keep ranking him as a high upside Top 30 dynasty WR. I've got him in one of my main leagues and I'm keeping my patience with him.

 

[Concept Coop]

I disagree with everything you said and cant believe you posted a scouting report lol. One thing you cant dispute is he has been amongst the league leaders in drops two years in a row now. His size and speed are not ideal, he measured in at the combine at 6'0'' not exactly Calvin Johnson zero doubt material lol.

I cant find 2009 stats but 2010 drop stats dont seem very earth shatteringPass DroppedRank Player Team Stats1 Wes Welker NE 132t Terrell Owens Cin 112t Reggie Wayne Ind 114t Miles Austin Dal 104t Brandon Marshall Mia 106t Danny Amendola StL 86t Brent Celek Phi 86t Jerricho Cotchery NYJ 86t Pierre Garcon Ind 86t Brandon Gibson StL 86t Fred Jackson Buf 86t Stevie Johnson Buf 86t Chad Ochocinco Cin 86t Brandon Pettigrew Det 86t Steve Smith Car 816t Steve Breaston Ari 716t Michael Crabtree SF 716t Donald Driver GB 716t Tony Gonzalez Atl 716t Aaron Hernandez NE 716t Devin Hester Chi 716t Andre Johnson Hou 716t Dustin Keller NYJ 716t Mike Williams TB 7

Pointless without target numbers. I know AJ has a good deal more, for one.

 

[todisco1]

He is one of my top buys in dynasty this offseason.

 

[Todem]

If Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Phillip Rivers were throwing him the ball we would ot be having this conversation.

Kid has all world talent and a piece of garbage situation. Look at his QB'S!!!!!!

 

[Steed]

I agree that he's overrated in the same sense Fitz was overrated this season. He's being limited by his QB situation and to some extent his own immaturities.

For those that think he's a tadbit on the small side, his arm length is ridiculous and was very apparent when he was plucking balls at Texas Tech in a good offense.

As a matter of fact, the only WR with longer arms than Crab from his draft class is Ramses Barden:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/combine/wr.html

The other cool thing I gleaned from that table is Hakeem Nicks' hand size is only smaller than Ramses Barden again.

 

[Go deep]

If Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Phillip Rivers were throwing him the ball we would ot be having this conversation.

Kid has all world talent and a piece of garbage situation. Look at his QB'S!!!!!!

But they arent. Plus, Vernon Davis doesnt seem to be having a problem. Crabtree has some talent, but it is vastly overrated.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

1. Lacks ideal speed and size2. Poor work ethic3. Drops4. Sloppy routesetc...I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty. His greatest asset coming out of college was supposed to be his hands, route running determination, but so far, he has shown to be very unreliable hands, poor routes and he just doesnt seem to care and he just seems to get a pass because of the team he's on which isnt right.What are your guys' thoughts on this subject

Roddy White never used to do much with the old Vick 1.0 as his QB either.Get Crabby in a situation a good QB and a good offensive system and he might flourish. He looks like a real football player to me. But if he gets humbled a little bit along the way that might just be good for him too.

 

[Todem]

If Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Phillip Rivers were throwing him the ball we would ot be having this conversation.

Kid has all world talent and a piece of garbage situation. Look at his QB'S!!!!!!

But they arent. Plus, Vernon Davis doesnt seem to be having a problem. Crabtree has some talent, but it is vastly overrated.

Ummm....Davis is the safety blanket and the first read in this putrid offense and he took 3 years to get it BTW.. I agree Crabtree is overrated but I can assure you with a better QB and situation his talent will show and his numbers would be 30% better.

 

[moderated]

Crabby can become a solid wr, but he doesn't have elite type skills to be a stud #1 ff wr.

 

[shadyridr]

Crabby can become a solid wr, but he doesn't have elite type skills to be a stud #1 ff wr.

To be a #1 ff wr you need one of two things. A stud QB (like Wayne, White, Jennings, Austin) or freakish abilities (Johnson, Johnson, Bowe, Bryant) or a combination of both. So I agree with your assessment and I dont think Crabtree will have either of those in the future.

 

[Go deep]

If Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Phillip Rivers were throwing him the ball we would ot be having this conversation.

Kid has all world talent and a piece of garbage situation. Look at his QB'S!!!!!!

But they arent. Plus, Vernon Davis doesnt seem to be having a problem. Crabtree has some talent, but it is vastly overrated.

Ummm....Davis is the safety blanket and the first read in this putrid offense and he took 3 years to get it BTW.. I agree Crabtree is overrated but I can assure you with a better QB and situation his talent will show and his numbers would be 30% better.

I dont think we are too far off on our feelings about Crabtree. I agree he is talented enough to be a pretty good WR in the right situation. True, Davis is the first read, but opposing defenses know that and have a hard time stopping him. I have to assume if Crabtree was better he would be getting the first read though.

 

[NorrisB]

If Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, or Phillip Rivers were throwing him the ball we would ot be having this conversation.

Kid has all world talent and a piece of garbage situation. Look at his QB'S!!!!!!

But they arent. Plus, Vernon Davis doesnt seem to be having a problem. Crabtree has some talent, but it is vastly overrated.

Ummm....Davis is the safety blanket and the first read in this putrid offense and he took 3 years to get it BTW.. I agree Crabtree is overrated but I can assure you with a better QB and situation his talent will show and his numbers would be 30% better.

I dont think we are too far off on our feelings about Crabtree. I agree he is talented enough to be a pretty good WR in the right situation. True, Davis is the first read, but opposing defenses know that and have a hard time stopping him. I have to assume if Crabtree was better he would be getting the first read though.

It's not even a lock he's the #2 target as Morgan has been outproducing him as of late

 

[gandalas]

I agree that he's overrated in the same sense Fitz was overrated this season. He's being limited by his QB situation and to some extent his own immaturities.

For those that think he's a tadbit on the small side, his arm length is ridiculous and was very apparent when he was plucking balls at Texas Tech in a good offense.

As a matter of fact, the only WR with longer arms than Crab from his draft class is Ramses Barden:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/combine/wr.html

The other cool thing I gleaned from that table is Hakeem Nicks' hand size is only smaller than Ramses Barden again.

He is 3rd in his class in arm length as well.Ramses Barden Cal Poly 6'6 229 34 1/2"

Marko Mitchell Nevada 6'3 5/8 218 34 1/2"

Michael Crabtree Texas Tech 6'1 3/8 215 34 1/4"

 

[Jack Burton]

Crabby can become a solid wr, but he doesn't have elite type skills to be a stud #1 ff wr.

Without a half decent QB we may never know if he is an elite.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

1. Lacks ideal speed and size2. Poor work ethic3. Drops4. Sloppy routesetc...I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty. His greatest asset coming out of college was supposed to be his hands, route running determination, but so far, he has shown to be very unreliable hands, poor routes and he just doesnt seem to care and he just seems to get a pass because of the team he's on which isnt right.What are your guys' thoughts on this subject

Roddy White never used to do much with the old Vick 1.0 as his QB either.Get Crabby in a situation a good QB and a good offensive system and he might flourish. He looks like a real football player to me. But if he gets humbled a little bit along the way that might just be good for him too.

Roddy White's first two seasons:29/446/330/506/0I seem to remember Roddy having some serious issues with drops as well. Much too early to write off Crabtree as of now. I don't think there is much physically separating him from Anquan Boldin. He just really needs a new coach and a real NFL QB.

 

[Inspiration]

1. Lacks ideal speed and size2. Poor work ethic3. Drops4. Sloppy routesetc...I just dont see how people keep putting this guy as a top 20-25 WR I think Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and AJ Green are all several tiers ahead oh him and I dont think Id give up even a middling 1.8 selection for him in a dynasty. His greatest asset coming out of college was supposed to be his hands, route running determination, but so far, he has shown to be very unreliable hands, poor routes and he just doesnt seem to care and he just seems to get a pass because of the team he's on which isnt right.What are your guys' thoughts on this subject

Roddy White never used to do much with the old Vick 1.0 as his QB either.Get Crabby in a situation a good QB and a good offensive system and he might flourish. He looks like a real football player to me. But if he gets humbled a little bit along the way that might just be good for him too.

Roddy White's improvement had little to do with a change in QB (his breakout year came with a Harrington/Leftwich/Redman QB trio) and alot to do with him maturing and improving as a player.

 

[Tiki_Barber Fan]

He'll be on dynasty waiver wires soon enough. You'll probably see a few owners hanging on well beyond warranted, praying they'll get something out of their prized rookie draft pick investment. Sunk cost.

Unproductive divas that lacked great athletic ability to begin, with chronic feet issues, aren't worth a roster spot. You can find WRs on the waiver wire each week that'll provide you with his typical production on the field.

He'll probably be IR'd soon with another foot surgery. And I'm sure he'll sit out his 4th consecutive preseason next year too.

Crabtree's like a pregnant wife. There's always time to upgrade in the meantime.

 

[spider321]

I think it would help if the 49ers had an NFL caliber quarterback.

 

[xfactor99]

No Niner fans really have any expectations for Crabtree anymore. By now we've recognized he's not an elite athletic talent, has poor work ethic, and bad chemistry with our quarterbacks. I think his absolute ceiling is something like Anquan Boldin, but most likely he'll never reach that.

 

[infantsam]

No Niner fans really have any expectations for Crabtree anymore. By now we've recognized he's not an elite athletic talent, has poor work ethic, and bad chemistry with our quarterbacks. I think his absolute ceiling is something like Anquan Boldin, but most likely he'll never reach that.

.It is too bad he comes in and goes out like that.

 

[jurb26]

No Niner fans really have any expectations for Crabtree anymore. By now we've recognized he's not an elite athletic talent, has poor work ethic, and bad chemistry with our quarterbacks. I think his absolute ceiling is something like Anquan Boldin, but most likely he'll never reach that.

Boldin? That's way too high a ceiling for Crabtree IMO. Boldin is a very good player. Crabtree is average.