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Is it OK to tank in FF? (1 Viewer)

TheWinz

Footballguy
This thread kinda piggyback's on @Judge Smails thread.
Scenario - I have locked up a playoff spot.  If I lose on purpose, I remove a strong team from the race.  OK to tank in this case?

 
This thread kinda piggyback's on @Judge Smails thread.
Scenario - I have locked up a playoff spot.  If I lose on purpose, I remove a strong team from the race.  OK to tank in this case?
If tanking to give yourself a better draft pick is frowned upon, why wouldn’t tanking to give somebody else a win be viewed  the same? Taking is tanking regardless of the reason. It should not be allowed. 

 
I have always felt I need to give my best effort out of respect to everyone else I played that year, and I would want someone to do the same if the spots were reversed. Now might I shade a little with my #2 option at PK or Def. Or maybe start my#4 we versus #3. Maybe 😇

 
You play to win the championship, not necessarily the individual battles on the way to it.
There's a social aspect to it as well.  I'm in a league with some life long friends, we are now late 40's early 50's.  If someone laid down on purpose they'd never hear the end of it and for good reason.  

 
There's a social aspect to it as well.  I'm in a league with some life long friends, we are now late 40's early 50's.  If someone laid down on purpose they'd never hear the end of it and for good reason.  
All's fair, yadda yadda.  Especially amongst lifelong friends. 

The opportunity to stab someone in the back at the end of the season and force them out of a playoff matchup is absolute *chef's kiss*

 
There's a social aspect to it as well.  I'm in a league with some life long friends, we are now late 40's early 50's.  If someone laid down on purpose they'd never hear the end of it and for good reason.  


The only reason to play fantasy football anymore.  

Grown ### men playing magic football for a few thousand bucks?... nah that isn't it.  The relationships are.

 
There's a social aspect to it as well.  I'm in a league with some life long friends, we are now late 40's early 50's.  If someone laid down on purpose they'd never hear the end of it and for good reason.  
Same, just add 6-8 years

I play in three other leagues but feel meh about it. Minimal effort. One Thursday night this year I left Kamara in a lineup when he was inactive. Embarrassing. If it’s happened before, been a long, long time.

Fourth league is my oldest and we’re all friends. Put more effort and time into that one than the other three combined.

Oh sorry, tanking. I’m in a league of guys who think like Hetm Edwards. As do I.

So that’s a no from me dog.

 
All's fair, yadda yadda.  Especially amongst lifelong friends. 

The opportunity to stab someone in the back at the end of the season and force them out of a playoff matchup is absolute *chef's kiss*
Wow.

This is our 32nd year in Sid's Vicious Fantasy Football League.  10 Teams, all friends.  I would never tank just to get a victory and neither would they.  I guess there are friends and there are "friends".

 
Do whatever you want to try to win.  I find trying to predict another perceived "worse" teams score a week out is like playing the lottery though. Waste if time especially if the team you knocked out ends up with a less score than what the team you kept in got. 

 
No.  Never do that.  It's bad form and the karma gods will likely come back and smite you in the playoffs.   

If you wouldn't want another team doing that if you needed them to win then you shouldn't do it either.  It's just bad form all the way around.  

 
It's refreshing to see the responses.  I am a firm believer that every team should try to win every week, even if it means facing a stronger opponent later.  

 
I have always felt I need to give my best effort out of respect to everyone else I played that year, and I would want someone to do the same if the spots were reversed. Now might I shade a little with my #2 option at PK or Def. Or maybe start my#4 we versus #3. Maybe 😇


The Art of Tanking... I am ok with this. Maybe you choose the some mid-tier player you think will score less among fairly equal/unknown guys. Maybe that top RB that was Q all week doesn't make it back into your lineup when it's a game time decision.

With that said, starting BYE/IR players and/or benching studs is bush league garbage. Good leagues should have rules to prevent blatantly obvious tanking like this.

 
Its never okay to tank. Your actions always affect other owners/teams and not just your own. Good leagues should have bylaws preventing it, and using things like Potential Points scored to determine draft order for non playoff teams helps too. 

 
It’s one of my first question to potential new league members. Will you finish out the season all the way through? Even if your team sucks?! Any kind of hesitation is a bad sign. 
 

 
Some things should be inherently obvious and don't need a direct rule.  Tanking is one of those things.  
Not everyone agrees as to what's acceptable. Can I start my RB4 instead of my usual RB2 if it helps me?

Make sure it's in your rules to remove all doubt.

 
Overall I'm against tanking, but something else to keep in mind: a strong team this week can be a weak team the next. 

 
Not everyone agrees as to what's acceptable. Can I start my RB4 instead of my usual RB2 if it helps me?

Make sure it's in your rules to remove all doubt.
How do you put that in the rules?   Your RB4 is someone elses RB2.  Would i start that guy over your other guy?  Maybe, maybe not but that is your prerogative as an owner.  Not everyone evaluates talent the same.  That is different than tanking.  

 
League rules should dictate. If you can tank, then so be it. If not, then obviously don’t. If 
League Rules?  If I turn in a full lineup, with players that were not on the injury list a week ago, please prove my intent to tank.

I simply don't see a way that league rules are going to prevent this.  I would say, "Well, he played last week, how was I to know?"

"You should have paid more attention," is not an acceptable answer.  Few fantasy players pay that much attention.  Why, just this week ... admittedly having sewn up a spot in the playoffs... I didn't see that Derwin James was out and started him.  It wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of the game given that his only replacement would have gotten me 1 point, but does that mean that I tanked?  Believe me, I did not!  If I had won, my nephew would have made the playoffs and there is no way I want my wife's side of the family pissed at me!

Point is that a league is only as good as it's owners.  If the owners think that tanking is fine, then it is.  But count me out of that league.  I think it is simply wrong to tank.

 
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How do you put that in the rules?   Your RB4 is someone elses RB2.  Would i start that guy over your other guy?  Maybe, maybe not but that is your prerogative as an owner.  Not everyone evaluates talent the same.  That is different than tanking.  
Well if I it's in my best interest to lose, I can start a roster of lesser players. Some might consider that tanking. I would certainly never argue for starting injured players or leaving a spot empty however.

 
Well if I it's in my best interest to lose, I can start a roster of lesser players. Some might consider that tanking. I would certainly never argue for starting injured players or leaving a spot empty however.
I would say it is never in your best interest to lose but that's just me.  There is too much uncertainty in this game to think losing ever benefits you.  Just because you think one team is "hotter" than the next doesn't mean anything when the games actually happen and Mahomes gets benched at half time because they are blowing out their opponent or Lamar goes out  with no points with an injury.  Now you happen to play the team forced to play Glennon at QB and he puts up 20+ pts and you lose.  

 
I would say it is never in your best interest to lose but that's just me.  There is too much uncertainty in this game to think losing ever benefits you.  Just because you think one team is "hotter" than the next doesn't mean anything when the games actually happen and Mahomes gets benched at half time because they are blowing out their opponent or Lamar goes out  with no points with an injury.  Now you happen to play the team forced to play Glennon at QB and he puts up 20+ pts and you lose.  
Whether or not you think it would ultimately work, some will argue they should be able to do it.

So my point is, don't assume everyone shares that opinion. 

 
While on the road this Thanksgiving I didn't notice that Zack Moss was an inactive.  Since then I've cried myself to sleep every night.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
While on the road this Thanksgiving I didn't notice that Zack Moss was an inactive.  Since then I've cried myself to sleep every night.
I would also cry myself to sleep if I owned Zack Moss

 
I would never be in a league where tanking is allowed and that really zeroes in on putting in a line-up designed to lose...totally unacceptable and 100% selfish...where a form of tanking is allowed is where it is a rebuild in Dynasty or a keeper league where you are trading good players off for draft picks/young players that will also have the side effect of probably losing this year...that is fine as long as you continue to put in your best line-up because it is legit strategy.

 
Nothing you can do about subtle tanking, but playing turds over studs can be corrected by the commish if there isn't any injuries at play, so can playing players on a bye or injured.  I'm against all-play because it takes some of the fun out of the game.  In the leagues I commish everyone knows I require them to play their best players (you know it when you see it) and I will substitute out injured players or players on a bye if they forget.  It's more work for me to monitor lineups on Sunday morning, but it is working for our leagues.  The main thing is that everyone knows where I stand on tanking and I wouldn't hesitate to replace an owner that doesn't comply and has already been warned.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
While on the road this Thanksgiving I didn't notice that Zack Moss was an inactive.  Since then I've cried myself to sleep every night.
I did the same on Halloween - was at a neighborhood party, Braves/Astros WS was going on, and then went trick or treating with my kid and just plumb forgot to check Dak's status for the SNF game and missed that he was ruled Out.  Had Daniel Jones on MNF as a backup plan, just let life get in the way of fantasy (oh the horrors!).  Ended up losing the matchup by 4 pts.  

 
Nothing you can do about subtle tanking, but playing turds over studs can be corrected by the commish if there isn't any injuries at play, so can playing players on a bye or injured.  I'm against all-play because it takes some of the fun out of the game.  In the leagues I commish everyone knows I require them to play their best players (you know it when you see it) and I will substitute out injured players or players on a bye if they forget.  It's more work for me to monitor lineups on Sunday morning, but it is working for our leagues.  The main thing is that everyone knows where I stand on tanking and I wouldn't hesitate to replace an owner that doesn't comply and has already been warned.
It would be nice if a commish could set something up like an autodraft like line up selector for anyone who submits an obvious bad one, whether by neglect or trying to tank.

 
If you don't feel the tug of ethics, consider that league mates have long memories for this kind of stuff - that and watch the "stronger" team have an off week next week while the "weaker" team blows up and eliminates you.

 
I think tanking to keep people out of the playoffs is wrong.  Many of us put a lot of time and effort into this, and it would suck to have the fun of the final week removed by simply making it impossible to qualify.

I will admit that for the first time ever, I did tank to improve my seeding in a 12 team league - after it was guaranteed it wouldn't impact who made the playoffs.  But I also checked with the affected teams beforehand to see how they felt about it and if they thought it was OK.  Perhaps surprisingly, everyone said they thought it was fine to do.

 
TheWinz said:
This thread kinda piggyback's on @Judge Smails thread.
Scenario - I have locked up a playoff spot.  If I lose on purpose, I remove a strong team from the race.  OK to tank in this case?
No.

IMO the ONLY acceptable tanking scenario is when a loss actually gets you into the playoffs where a win would knock you out of the playoffs.

It's a rare scenario but it happens.

Screw anyone who disagrees.  Voluntarily ending your season is just stupid.

 
No.

IMO the ONLY acceptable tanking scenario is when a loss actually gets you into the playoffs where a win would knock you out of the playoffs.

It's a rare scenario but it happens.

Screw anyone who disagrees.  Voluntarily ending your season is just stupid.
hmmm.  I hadn't thought about that and it would be extremely rare.  The only way I could see it is if you lose a heads up tie break but win a three way tie break and in order to get to the 3-way is by the team playing you winning and you losing.  Very unique situation.  In that case I agree that throwing that game has merit.  Probably the only situation I would agree that throwing a game is warranted.  I don't think I have ever actually seen that situation before.  

ETA:  Another reason to have total points as the first tie breaker.  That way this scenario could never take place.  

 
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hmmm.  I hadn't thought about that and it would be extremely rare.  The only way I could see it is if you lose a heads up tie break but win a three way tie break and in order to get to the 3-way is by the team playing you winning and you losing.  Very unique situation.  In that case I agree that throwing that game has merit.  Probably the only situation I would agree that throwing a game is warranted.  I don't think I have ever actually seen that situation before.  

ETA:  Another reason to have total points as the first tie breaker.  That way this scenario could never take place.  
I dont think I have ever been in a league where that scenario is possible, but if I was and it happened I would be first in line to tank my way to the playoffs

 
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I dont think I have ever been in a league where that scenario is possible, but if I was and it happened I would be first in line to tank my way to the playoffs
Then what scenario were you referring to in your post?  I can't think of another way where a loss helps and win hurts your playoff chances.....

 
Then what scenario were you referring to in your post?  I can't think of another way where a loss helps and win hurts your playoff chances.....
Oh.  I think the scenario you mentioned might be possible.  Just saying I have never been in league where a situation could arise where a loss gets you in while a win knocks you out.

 
Oh.  I think the scenario you mentioned might be possible.  Just saying I have never been in league where a situation could arise where a loss gets you in while a win knocks you out.
There is also risk with that because it likely requires that third team to win the last week also.  So it's not an automatic thing.   You could lose, the third team loses, and then the team that beats you gets in because you tanked and the third team didn't win.  Just an odd situation.

Did you have another scenario in mind when you made your initial post on this "losing to get in" situation?

 
There is also risk with that because it likely requires that third team to win the last week also.  So it's not an automatic thing.   You could lose, the third team loses, and then the team that beats you gets in because you tanked and the third team didn't win.  Just an odd situation.

Did you have another scenario in mind when you made your initial post on this "losing to get in" situation?
This was discussed at length a while back in another thread.  I dont remember the exact scenario

I remember there were still a good percentage of people who were still against tanking when the ONLY way to get into the playoffs was with a loss.  Makes no sense to me.

When a win guarantees you are out but a loss gives you a chance, well duh, lose.

 
This was discussed at length a while back in another thread.  I dont remember the exact scenario

I remember there were still a good percentage of people who were still against tanking when the ONLY way to get into the playoffs was with a loss.  Makes no sense to me.

When a win guarantees you are out but a loss gives you a chance, well duh, lose.
Seems more theoretical than actual.  Even in my scenario it is no guarantee as the third team would have to win for the scenario to work.  So you are at risk either way.  If you win and the other team wins then you lose the tie break.  If you lose and the other team loses then the team that beats you is in.  You need both to lose and the third team to win (which is no guarantee) so I can't think of an actual situation where losing guarantees a playoff spot where winning guarantees you are out.  

 
I think the only way that it would be a sure thing is in a league where total points determines the wild card. If you couldn't win your division, but were way ahead of everyone but the guy that you were playing in total points, and that guy could win his division with a win, you'd probably have to lose to get in.

Any tie breaker scenario, your win would get you out of the tied situation, so losing wouldn't help you, without other stuff happening.

 

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