Is Jorge Posada a HOFer? (1 Viewer)

[Funkley]

Nopeand if he played for say the marlins, it wouldnt even be worth debating

Which, if true, is ironic because one of the reasons that IRod will go into the hall is because he did play for the Marlins.

If Rodriguez had never won a ring, he would still be a no-brainer HOF player.

Any player who doesn't have the automatic numbers needs a WS on his resume. I-Rod has one and now he's mentioned as a "no-brainer". It's not coincidence.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Nopeand if he played for say the marlins, it wouldnt even be worth debating

Which, if true, is ironic because one of the reasons that IRod will go into the hall is because he did play for the Marlins.

If Rodriguez had never won a ring, he would still be a no-brainer HOF player.

Any player who doesn't have the automatic numbers needs a WS on his resume. I-Rod has one and now he's mentioned as a "no-brainer". It's not coincidence.

Come on, I-Rod is the best all around catcher of his generation

 

[David Yudkin]

Nopeand if he played for say the marlins, it wouldnt even be worth debating

Which, if true, is ironic because one of the reasons that IRod will go into the hall is because he did play for the Marlins.

If Rodriguez had never won a ring, he would still be a no-brainer HOF player.

Any player who doesn't have the automatic numbers needs a WS on his resume. I-Rod has one and now he's mentioned as a "no-brainer". It's not coincidence.

I-Rod was a no brainer well before he had his WS ring.

 

[David Yudkin]

Well see, he's holding up better than Fisk ever did and I-Rod/Piazza are now. I wouldn't be shocked to see him still catching at 40-1 if he wants to which would get him to 1800 games.

Posada has lights yers to go to approach the career numbers of Piazza and Rodriguez.Posada1216 hits, 204 HR, 797 RBI, .273 AVGPiazza2071 hits, 420 HR, 1299 RBI, .309 AVGI-Rod2393 hits, 281 HR, 1140 RBI, .303 AVG

 

[Funkley]

He won't be first ballot. I think calling him a "no brainer" with the WS title is easy to do in hindsight. W/o it, not so much. My opinion.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

He won't be first ballot. I think calling him a "no brainer" with the WS title is easy to do in hindsight. W/o it, not so much. My opinion.

I-Rod is probably in the top 3-4 all time all around catchers. He seems like a deek and he definately juiced for a few years, but he's talented, I'll never take that away from him.

 

[Greco]

If Ted Simmons isn't in, there is no way Posada gets there.

Ted Simmons: More RBIs than Bench, more runs than Carter, more hits than Berra or Fisk. When will the Hall call THIS catcher?!

 

[pigskin pimp]

Well see, he's holding up better than Fisk ever did and I-Rod/Piazza are now. I wouldn't be shocked to see him still catching at 40-1 if he wants to which would get him to 1800 games.

Posada has lights yers to go to approach the career numbers of Piazza and Rodriguez.Posada1216 hits, 204 HR, 797 RBI, .273 AVGPiazza2071 hits, 420 HR, 1299 RBI, .309 AVGI-Rod2393 hits, 281 HR, 1140 RBI, .303 AVG

Add to it the intangibles that stats don't reveal. How no one ran on IRod in his prime and how he developed into catcher who could help his pitching staffs in his later years will factor into his HOF debate.Posada's DEF has has always been considered soft and has never been known to help mold a staff with his pitch calls.Piazza's a butcher and always has been a butcher behind the plate, but he made up for it with the long ball.IMOudge is already in as a 1st ballot.Piazza will be in, but I don't think on his first try.Posada has to prolong his career another 3-5 years and gather more stats. It can be done, the guy is hitting the beejesus out of the ball this year. But if he retired after this year, there's no way he's getting in.

 

[wilked]

this thread makes me laff

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Well see, he's holding up better than Fisk ever did and I-Rod/Piazza are now. I wouldn't be shocked to see him still catching at 40-1 if he wants to which would get him to 1800 games.

Posada has lights yers to go to approach the career numbers of Piazza and Rodriguez.Posada1216 hits, 204 HR, 797 RBI, .273 AVGPiazza2071 hits, 420 HR, 1299 RBI, .309 AVGI-Rod2393 hits, 281 HR, 1140 RBI, .303 AVG

Add to it the intangibles that stats don't reveal. How no one ran on IRod in his prime and how he developed into catcher who could help his pitching staffs in his later years will factor into his HOF debate.Posada's DEF has has always been considered soft and has never been known to help mold a staff with his pitch calls.Piazza's a butcher and always has been a butcher behind the plate, but he made up for it with the long ball.IMOudge is already in as a 1st ballot.Piazza will be in, but I don't think on his first try.Posada has to prolong his career another 3-5 years and gather more stats. It can be done, the guy is hitting the beejesus out of the ball this year. But if he retired after this year, there's no way he's getting in.

Piazza had indiviual seasons that are among the best by a right handed hitter of the post war era. When you consider he did it behind the dish, he is a first ballot, no brainer.

 

[Koya]

BTW, the offended party (my friend in the bar that did not take to kindly to my laughing at the thought of Posada in the hall) was TU. He is off drinking at lollapolooza or something today so he will have to get his input in next week.

TU's arguement was that Posada is one of the best of his generation and once he gets 400 HRs, it will be a cinch.

My reply was... 400 WHAT?

TU then offended ME be questioning Eddie Murray's stats. Granted, Eddie had some compiling, and he did play 1B, but he also was one of the top 2-3 players in baseball for a 5 year period and even considering the far easier position, Im really not sure where TU was coming from.

Anyhoo, I wanted to put it out there for everyone and it seems most are in agreement with me that while Posada was a fine player and one of the better catchers during his era, that does not get him close to the HoF. He is a far better Yankee than he is a historical baseball player imo. I think that blinded TU to be honest but we will see what he has to say if he finds this thread.

 

[Koya]

BTW, Piazza is FAR from a "butcher" behind the plate. Someone either did not watch him play or does not understand what he brought to the game.

Piazza was an ABOVE AVERAGE defensive catcher in regard to calling a game, framing pitches and even general Defense. He WAS awful and later in his career outright atrocious at throwing runners out - but that is just one part of the defensive spectrum for a catcher. It is a big detraction, but to call him a butcher in general defensively is simply innaccurate.

Plus, Piazza is one of the best right handed hitters EVER. You have to remember that had Piazza played 1B, he would have 20-30 more games a year, and likely 3-4 more peak or close to peak seasons. Go and extrapolate from there and, well... wow.

People forget, before catching began to take its toll and make Piazza into a .280 hitter with power, he was a .300 hitter with a lot of power. Before catching began to take any toll, Piazza was a career .330+ hitter with a LOT of power.

 

[The Man from Laramie]

I'm gonna cross post from the other thread on this. I think this paints a good picture of why I-Rod should be a first balloter, even if he won't be, and why Posada probably won't make it, even if he kind of should:

WARP3

Bench: 120.8

Fisk: 117.5

Carter: 117.1

I-Rod: 125.9 (including 4.8 already in 2007)

Piazza: 98.6 (including 1.4 already in 2007)

Posada: 80.5 (including 9.6 already in 2007)

EqA

Bench: .291

Fisk: .285

Carter: .281

I-Rod: .283

Piazza: .314

Posada: .301

FRAR

Bench: 499

Fisk: 460

Carter: 551

I-Rod: 611

Piazza: 172

Posada: 291

All-Star Games

Bench: 14

Fisk: 11

Carter: 11

I-Rod: 14

Piazza: 12

Posada: 5

Gold Gloves

Bench: 10

Fisk: 1

Carter: 3

I-Rod: 12

Piazza: 0

Posada: 0

Silver Sluggers (started in 1980)

Bench: 0

Fisk: 3

Carter: 5

I-Rod: 7

Piazza: 10

Posada: 4

Other

Bench: ROY, 2X MVP, WS MVP

Fisk: ROY

Carter: 2X All-Star MVP

I-Rod: MVP

Piazza: ROY, All-Star MVP

Posada:

I guess by some sabermetric measures, Posada will retire having been as valuable as others, but in terms of accolades and "grey" ink, he just doesn't have it. And his defense isn't superb (although the FRAR stat is a bit skewed in that it's a counting stat, and Posada is still playing).