A buddy and I were talking football while drinking some beers and the subject of Hall of Famers that are still playing came up. Tell me if Kurt Warner is a Hall of Famer or if he has a realistic shot at the HOF. My initial reaction was no, but after looking at some stats and records I think that he might have an outside shot if he has another decent couple of seasons. Opinions?
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is Kurt Warner a HOFer? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PhatHead
- Start date
no chancefrom PFR:
a 36 year old QB on a terrible team with 2 great seasons out of 7 or 8 played doesn't warrant HOF consideration.
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kevthegrad
Footballguy
Unless he wins 2 more Superbowls (with the Cards no less!) and leads the league over the next 2 - 3 years in passing etc....no chance at all.
NO chance at all.
NO chance at all.
Purpulhippo999
Footballguy
maybe because of where he came from....bagging gorcceries then 2 times MVP....thats just amazing and a great story
he probly has 2-3 more good years in him, plus he has fitzgerald and boldin, 2 of he best young recievers in the NFL and without a doubt the best 2 reciever combo on any team
he probly has 2-3 more good years in him, plus he has fitzgerald and boldin, 2 of he best young recievers in the NFL and without a doubt the best 2 reciever combo on any team
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
Right, but Warner played on some much better teams than these Colts teams. Getting to 2 Superbowls was far easier for him because his supporting cast and defense tower over what Indianapolis has. There's really no comparison. Manning will be a HOF because of his leadership, his ability to stay cool under pressure, his staggering career #s and his clutch perfomances. Warner's 2 MVPs and 2 SB appearances pale in comparison to young Peyton's achievments.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
NO. Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and he won't get in. What about all the other Super Bowl winning qb's? Dilfer, McMahon, Rypien, Williams to name a few. Just because he was the starting qb on a SB winner doesn't make him a Hall Of Famer.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Warner had two PHENOMENAL seasons in 1999 and 2001. And what else? Seriously.
Maybe that's a little harsh, as he did pretty well in 2000 before he got hurt, but since then . . .
29 games played, 35 games not played
21 TD passes, 25 INT
0 years with 3000 passing yards
34 fumbles, 14 fumbles lost
So basically his entire case for the HOF is based on 2 1/2 seasons.
Maybe that's a little harsh, as he did pretty well in 2000 before he got hurt, but since then . . .
29 games played, 35 games not played
21 TD passes, 25 INT
0 years with 3000 passing yards
34 fumbles, 14 fumbles lost
So basically his entire case for the HOF is based on 2 1/2 seasons.
He has a CHANCE.... but thats only if he plays like 5 more years worth of games (approximatly 75-80 more games)... probably not going to happen considering his age and injury historyHere are some notable stats...
Warner is one of only 15 NFLers with multiple MVPs (also happens to be one of 15 QBs to appear in multiple SBs)
Warner is the all-time NFL leader in Completion Percentage
Warner has the 2nd best all-time NFL Passer Rating (behind Steve Young)
Warner has the 2nd best season in passing yardage (behind Dan Marino)
Warner has the 3rd best season in passing TDs (behind Peyton Manning and Marino)
Most of the stats can be found here
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/general/#P
Now for some prognostication....
I think the O/U on seasons Warner has as a full time starter is 2.5 seasons... but i'll be generous and give him 3 for the sake of conversation....
IF Warner remains the starter in Arizona for the next three years, AND he has an average of 3,500 yards, 25 TDs (hey, it could happen if he plays 45 games)
Then Warner would STILL not crack the top 25 in Career Pass TDs....(including Peyton Manning, if he were to retire today).
He would also be behind 30+ QBs in all time Pass Yards.
So yes, he would have to win some more Super Bowls (which is highly unlikely in Arizona)
Fumbleweed
Footballguy
None of the QBs you mentioned ever sniffed the kind of numbers Warner put up with the Rams. All of this discussion depends on how you define the Hall of Fame. If career numbers are all you go by, then why is Gale Sayers in the Hall? I'll tell you why: Because Gale Sayers, even if only for a couple of years, was a special player. Warner, for a couple of years, was a special player....and he had an amazing story. Hall of Best Careers in terms of longevity? No chance for Warner there. Hall of FAME? Yeah, he's got a shot at that.........
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I would say that Warner HURT his chances since his magically 2001 season by doing very little but still playing. Had his career just ended due to some tragic accident that left him unable to play, I would say that maybe he could have gotten some sympathy votes. I suppose he could stand a chance if he returned to the form and the numbers that he posted in 99-01 and kept that level of play up for several more seasons, but I doubt we will see that.
He'll need to win more Supes, as was said.
He has the highest career QB rating of active QBs and his best season is "up there" amongst the best all time.
Those two WRs could easily prolong his career.
He's no HOFer now but I wouldn't be so quick to say no.
I'm pretty confident Denny's on his way to building something in Zona. His Minny teams fell just short of playing in a Supe. He, like Kurt, may need Supe wins to get into the Hall. IMO he's an extremely underrated coach with something to prove. Wouldn't be surprising to me if Denny won a Supe. If Warner's his QB does he get credit? Absolutely but I feel like he'll always be second guessed.
When the time comes, if it's a close call only, I wonder where the NFLE will be at and if the NFL can nudge some voters to put one of them in the Hall.
He has the highest career QB rating of active QBs and his best season is "up there" amongst the best all time.
Those two WRs could easily prolong his career.
He's no HOFer now but I wouldn't be so quick to say no.
I'm pretty confident Denny's on his way to building something in Zona. His Minny teams fell just short of playing in a Supe. He, like Kurt, may need Supe wins to get into the Hall. IMO he's an extremely underrated coach with something to prove. Wouldn't be surprising to me if Denny won a Supe. If Warner's his QB does he get credit? Absolutely but I feel like he'll always be second guessed.
When the time comes, if it's a close call only, I wonder where the NFLE will be at and if the NFL can nudge some voters to put one of them in the Hall.
Red Herring
Footballguy
I get the feeling we'll be seeing this thread combined with the Terrell Davis thread in a couple years. Its the same argument: does playoff success and brief regular season dominance negate the need for consistancy? I say no, but it will be endlessly debated. To add to Warner's arguement though, it is the Hall of "Fame". Warner's story is compelling enough he should be there somewhere, if not as a full member.
Tau837
Footballguy
Every time someone makes a case for a player who had a short period of greatness, Gale Sayers is cited as a comparison. Can we please stop this? It really only highlights how little the poster knows about Sayers.Sayers is deservedly in the HOF. Guys like Warner and Terrell Davis ARE NOT comparable to Sayers, so bringing up Sayers to justify their cases is not helpful.
From a post in which I attempted to refute someone's use of Sayers as justification for Terrell Davis to make the HOF:
Simply substitute Warner for Davis above... his case is similar to Davis's.As for the thread question: no chance.
MarshallRob
Footballguy
If you only look at AP MVP winners, then the answer is no. Besides Warner, I believe the only players to get the nod from AP more than once are Jim Brown, John Unitas, Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Brett Favre. Impressive company.If you look at all the organizations that hand out MVP awards, the list grows to 19 players if I've counted correctly from this list. The 19 players include 10 Hall of Famers (Hutson, Graham, Brown, Unitas, Tittle, Griese, Campbell, Montana, Sanders, Young), 4 future ones (Rice, Favre, Faulk, and Manning), and five QB's who will probably never make the Hall (Stabler, Theisman, Cunningham, Gannon, and Warner).
EDIT: If you count the AFL as well, add one Hall of Famer (Namath) and one non-Hall of Famer (Lamonica) to the second list.
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Red Herring
Footballguy
I was more thinkig of warner joining when HE retires, but, really, since when do we wait to debate HoF candidacy until someone retires?
Warner isn't quite done, either. I don't think its a stretch that a full year in ARI with those weapons around him (+ hopefully a new RB) can get him 3000+/25+ pretty easily. If he does put up good numbers, it would be hard to just get rid of him for the probably 3-4 years he may have left. Would 3-4 years of those type stats combined with taking them to the playoffs a couple times build a good enough case? maybe....
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