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is Kurt Warner a HOFer? (1 Viewer)

PhatHead

Footballguy
A buddy and I were talking football while drinking some beers and the subject of Hall of Famers that are still playing came up. Tell me if Kurt Warner is a Hall of Famer or if he has a realistic shot at the HOF. My initial reaction was no, but after looking at some stats and records I think that he might have an outside shot if he has another decent couple of seasons. Opinions?

 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
no chancefrom PFR:

Kurt Warner is not in the all-time top 50 in any major category.
a 36 year old QB on a terrible team with 2 great seasons out of 7 or 8 played doesn't warrant HOF consideration.
 
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kevthegrad

Footballguy
Unless he wins 2 more Superbowls (with the Cards no less!) and leads the league over the next 2 - 3 years in passing etc....no chance at all.

NO chance at all.

 

jetpack

Footballguy
He will certainly be the first one elected to the grocery baggers' HOF.

Who has accomplished more?

 

Purpulhippo999

Footballguy
maybe because of where he came from....bagging gorcceries then 2 times MVP....thats just amazing and a great story

he probly has 2-3 more good years in him, plus he has fitzgerald and boldin, 2 of he best young recievers in the NFL and without a doubt the best 2 reciever combo on any team

 

Balco

Footballguy
Wait guys, I thought a qb's success is measured on Super Bowls. Warner has been to two, winning 1. This obviously makes him better than Manning, right?

 

SoloMatisse

Footballguy
Wait guys, I thought a qb's success is measured on Super Bowls. Warner has been to two, winning 1. This obviously makes him better than Manning, right?
Right, but Warner played on some much better teams than these Colts teams. Getting to 2 Superbowls was far easier for him because his supporting cast and defense tower over what Indianapolis has. There's really no comparison. Manning will be a HOF because of his leadership, his ability to stay cool under pressure, his staggering career #s and his clutch perfomances. Warner's 2 MVPs and 2 SB appearances pale in comparison to young Peyton's achievments. :bye:

 

Z-Dog

Footballguy
two-time MVP who won one Superbowl and went to two, and holds the league record for completion percentage. Yeah, he's got a shot. His numbers are low b/c he didn't start for a long time, but if you think Steve Young is in the HoF, you might need to make room for Warner too.

 
NO. Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and he won't get in. What about all the other Super Bowl winning qb's? Dilfer, McMahon, Rypien, Williams to name a few. Just because he was the starting qb on a SB winner doesn't make him a Hall Of Famer.

 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Warner had two PHENOMENAL seasons in 1999 and 2001. And what else? Seriously.

Maybe that's a little harsh, as he did pretty well in 2000 before he got hurt, but since then . . .

29 games played, 35 games not played

21 TD passes, 25 INT

0 years with 3000 passing yards

34 fumbles, 14 fumbles lost

So basically his entire case for the HOF is based on 2 1/2 seasons.

 

aposulli

Footballguy
Unless he wins 2 more Superbowls (with the Cards no less!) and leads the league over the next 2 - 3 years in passing etc....no chance at all.

NO chance at all.
He has a CHANCE.... but thats only if he plays like 5 more years worth of games (approximatly 75-80 more games)... probably not going to happen considering his age and injury historyHere are some notable stats...

Warner is one of only 15 NFLers with multiple MVPs (also happens to be one of 15 QBs to appear in multiple SBs)

Warner is the all-time NFL leader in Completion Percentage

Warner has the 2nd best all-time NFL Passer Rating (behind Steve Young)

Warner has the 2nd best season in passing yardage (behind Dan Marino)

Warner has the 3rd best season in passing TDs (behind Peyton Manning and Marino)

Most of the stats can be found here

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/general/#P

Now for some prognostication....

I think the O/U on seasons Warner has as a full time starter is 2.5 seasons... but i'll be generous and give him 3 for the sake of conversation....

IF Warner remains the starter in Arizona for the next three years, AND he has an average of 3,500 yards, 25 TDs (hey, it could happen if he plays 45 games)

Then Warner would STILL not crack the top 25 in Career Pass TDs....(including Peyton Manning, if he were to retire today).

He would also be behind 30+ QBs in all time Pass Yards.

So yes, he would have to win some more Super Bowls (which is highly unlikely in Arizona)

 

Fumbleweed

Footballguy
NO. Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and he won't get in. What about all the other Super Bowl winning qb's? Dilfer, McMahon, Rypien, Williams to name a few. Just because he was the starting qb on a SB winner doesn't make him a Hall Of Famer.
None of the QBs you mentioned ever sniffed the kind of numbers Warner put up with the Rams. All of this discussion depends on how you define the Hall of Fame. If career numbers are all you go by, then why is Gale Sayers in the Hall? I'll tell you why: Because Gale Sayers, even if only for a couple of years, was a special player. Warner, for a couple of years, was a special player....and he had an amazing story. Hall of Best Careers in terms of longevity? No chance for Warner there. Hall of FAME? Yeah, he's got a shot at that.........

 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
NO. Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and he won't get in. What about all the other Super Bowl winning qb's? Dilfer, McMahon, Rypien, Williams to name a few. Just because he was the starting qb on a SB winner doesn't make him a Hall Of Famer.
None of the QBs you mentioned ever sniffed the kind of numbers Warner put up with the Rams. All of this discussion depends on how you define the Hall of Fame. If career numbers are all you go by, then why is Gale Sayers in the Hall? I'll tell you why: Because Gale Sayers, even if only for a couple of years, was a special player. Warner, for a couple of years, was a special player....and he had an amazing story. Hall of Best Careers in terms of longevity? No chance for Warner there. Hall of FAME? Yeah, he's got a shot at that.........
I would say that Warner HURT his chances since his magically 2001 season by doing very little but still playing. Had his career just ended due to some tragic accident that left him unable to play, I would say that maybe he could have gotten some sympathy votes. I suppose he could stand a chance if he returned to the form and the numbers that he posted in 99-01 and kept that level of play up for several more seasons, but I doubt we will see that.
 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
has any other player in history been named the league MVP twice and not even had a shot at the HOF?

Too bad for Kurt.

 

Bri

Footballguy
He'll need to win more Supes, as was said.

He has the highest career QB rating of active QBs and his best season is "up there" amongst the best all time.

Those two WRs could easily prolong his career.

He's no HOFer now but I wouldn't be so quick to say no.

I'm pretty confident Denny's on his way to building something in Zona. His Minny teams fell just short of playing in a Supe. He, like Kurt, may need Supe wins to get into the Hall. IMO he's an extremely underrated coach with something to prove. Wouldn't be surprising to me if Denny won a Supe. If Warner's his QB does he get credit? Absolutely but I feel like he'll always be second guessed.

When the time comes, if it's a close call only, I wonder where the NFLE will be at and if the NFL can nudge some voters to put one of them in the Hall.

 

Red Herring

Footballguy
I get the feeling we'll be seeing this thread combined with the Terrell Davis thread in a couple years. Its the same argument: does playoff success and brief regular season dominance negate the need for consistancy? I say no, but it will be endlessly debated. To add to Warner's arguement though, it is the Hall of "Fame". Warner's story is compelling enough he should be there somewhere, if not as a full member.

 

Just Win Baby

Footballguy
NO. Jim Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and he won't get in. What about all the other Super Bowl winning qb's? Dilfer, McMahon, Rypien, Williams to name a few. Just because he was the starting qb on a SB winner doesn't make him a Hall Of Famer.
None of the QBs you mentioned ever sniffed the kind of numbers Warner put up with the Rams. All of this discussion depends on how you define the Hall of Fame. If career numbers are all you go by, then why is Gale Sayers in the Hall? I'll tell you why: Because Gale Sayers, even if only for a couple of years, was a special player. Warner, for a couple of years, was a special player....and he had an amazing story. Hall of Best Careers in terms of longevity? No chance for Warner there. Hall of FAME? Yeah, he's got a shot at that.........
Every time someone makes a case for a player who had a short period of greatness, Gale Sayers is cited as a comparison. Can we please stop this? It really only highlights how little the poster knows about Sayers.Sayers is deservedly in the HOF. Guys like Warner and Terrell Davis ARE NOT comparable to Sayers, so bringing up Sayers to justify their cases is not helpful.

From a post in which I attempted to refute someone's use of Sayers as justification for Terrell Davis to make the HOF:

I think Davis has just as strong a case as Sayers did
I must disagree.From Pro Football Hall of Fame:

Gale Eugene Sayers. . .Kansas All-America. . .Exceptional break-away runner. . .Scored rookie record 22 TDs, 132 points, 1965. . .Led NFL rushers, 1966, 1969. . .Named all-time NFL halfback, 1969. . . All-NFL five straight years. . .Player of Game in three Pro Bowls. . .Career totals: 9,435 combined net yards, 4,956 yards rushing, 336 points. . . NFL lifetime kickoff return leader. . .Born May 30, 1943, in Wichita, Kansas.

Gale Sayers burst upon the pro football scene in 1965 with the kind of an impact that the sport had not felt in many years. It is difficult to imagine a more dynamic debut than the one he enjoyed as a rookie. In his first heavy pre-season action, he raced 77 yards on a punt return, 93 yards on a kickoff return, and then startled everyone with a 25-yard scoring pass against the Los Angeles Rams.

In regular season, he scored four touchdowns, including a 96-yard game breaking kickoff return, against the Minnesota Vikings. And, in the next-to-last game, playing on a muddy field that would have stalled most runners, Gale scored a record-tying six touchdowns against the San Francisco 49ers. Included in his sensational spree were an 80-yard pass-run play, a 50-yard rush and a 65-yard punt return. For the entire season, Gale scored 22 touchdowns and 132 points, both then-rookie records.

Quiet, unassuming, and always ready to compliment a teammate for a key block, Sayers continued to sizzle in 1967 and well into the 1968 season. Then, in the ninth game, Sayers suffered a knee injury that required immediate surgery.

After a tortuous rehabilitation program, Gale came back in 1969 in a most spectacular manner, winding up with his second 1,000-yard rushing season and universal Comeback of the Year honors. But injuries continued to take their toll and, just before the 1972 season, Gale finally had to call it quits.

In his relatively short career, he compiled a record that can never be forgotten. His totals show 9,435 combined net yards, 4,956 yards rushing, and 336 points scored. At the time of his retirement he was the NFL's all-time leader in kickoff returns. He won All-NFL honors five straight years and was named Offensive Player of the Game in three of the four Pro Bowls in which he played.
Though not clearly stated above, Sayers was ROY in 1965.Sayers was Michael Vick electric. His career averages:

- 5.0 yards per rush (Davis 4.6)

- 11.7 yards per catch (Davis 7.6)

- 14.5 yards per punt return

- 30.6 yards per kickoff return

- 27.8 yards per completion (but only 6.2 yards per attempt)

Sayers had tremendous impact on special teams, as well as in both the running and passing games on offense. Davis didn't have quite the same overall impact. And, frankly, from the averages shown above, Sayers appears to have been more talented, though I realize it is difficult to compare across eras, offenses, etc.

Sayers played only 2 games in each of his last 2 seasons, unable to overcome injury. So he effectively played only 5 seasons, and he was named All Pro each time. In contrast, Davis played 3 great seasons, 1996-1998. He was All Pro in each of those seasons. But as a rookie, while very impressive for a first year RB, he was not one of the top backs in the NFL. IMO, as great as he was in the next 3 seasons, 3 great seasons makes less of a case than 5 great seasons.

Also, Sayers career was truly done after his 5 year run, as he was able to play only a total of 4 more games over the next 2 seasons. Davis may have actually hurt his case by lingering longer, playing a total of 20 more games over 3 additional seasons after his injury.

I'm not really sure what to think of Sayers being named "All Time NFL halfback" in 1969, but it sounds like an honor that transcends single season awards. I don't recall Davis ever receiving such an award.

...

I feel that Sayers deserves to be in and Davis does not. And I expect the voters will ultimately agree on Davis.
Simply substitute Warner for Davis above... his case is similar to Davis's.As for the thread question: no chance.

 

MarshallRob

Footballguy
has any other player in history been named the league MVP twice and not even had a shot at the HOF?

Too bad for Kurt.
If you only look at AP MVP winners, then the answer is no. Besides Warner, I believe the only players to get the nod from AP more than once are Jim Brown, John Unitas, Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Brett Favre. Impressive company.If you look at all the organizations that hand out MVP awards, the list grows to 19 players if I've counted correctly from this list. The 19 players include 10 Hall of Famers (Hutson, Graham, Brown, Unitas, Tittle, Griese, Campbell, Montana, Sanders, Young), 4 future ones (Rice, Favre, Faulk, and Manning), and five QB's who will probably never make the Hall (Stabler, Theisman, Cunningham, Gannon, and Warner).

EDIT: If you count the AFL as well, add one Hall of Famer (Namath) and one non-Hall of Famer (Lamonica) to the second list.

 
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Guzalot

Footballguy
HOF? No. Still, Kurt Warner has accomplished a lot and any derision directed his way is mis-placed. He worked hard and never gave up on his dream to play QB in the NFL. Not only did he play but he WON A SUPERBOWL! He is a credit to the sport.

 
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Red Herring

Footballguy
I get the feeling we'll be seeing this thread combined with the Terrell Davis thread in a couple years.
Actually, sooner than that. He's eligible for the Class of '07.
I was more thinkig of warner joining when HE retires, but, really, since when do we wait to debate HoF candidacy until someone retires? :) Warner isn't quite done, either. I don't think its a stretch that a full year in ARI with those weapons around him (+ hopefully a new RB) can get him 3000+/25+ pretty easily. If he does put up good numbers, it would be hard to just get rid of him for the probably 3-4 years he may have left. Would 3-4 years of those type stats combined with taking them to the playoffs a couple times build a good enough case? maybe....

 

QuizGuy66

Footballguy
I tried looking up the Arena Football Hall of Fame but it looks like nobody's been inducted to it since 2002. Looks like Warner is out of luck.

-QG

 

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