Is LaDainian Tomlinson washed up? (1 Viewer)

[Sweetness_34]

Only a blind person can say LT is washed up after tonight. Seriously, are you kidding me? I am going to try and buy him in all my dynast leagues if I can after tonight. Hope the owners are as low on him as some guys here. A late 2nd rounder should get you LT right now in some leagues. And even if the OL sucks rest of the year, it can only get better next year. Oh, and Sproles wishes he could be a real RB. The guy cannot run between the tackles; period. Finally, Norv is an idiot. I cannot believe he still has a head coaching job. Once the Chargers miss the playoffs, which is almost a given now as they have no shot at this div at 2-3 with Denver 6-0 (unless Denver does the same choke it did last year), I hope Norv gets fired and they get Shanahan in SD. That would be sweet for Rivers, Gates and LT's value next year.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Man, the LT backers are gonna go nuts the next time he...um...actually...maybe..scores a TD. He has been a total dissapointment for his owners this year.

Just ask the Steven Jackson or Matt Forte or Marshawn Lynch or Larry Johnson or Ryan Grant or (any NE RB) or Darren McFadden or (any Seattle RB) owners. If anything, Moreno owners should be excited the next time he scores a TD, and I am one of them in one of my leagues. I cannot believe Buckhalter is costing Moreno so many carries and receptions yet.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Yeah I thought he looked really good tonight, and he said before the game that he's 90%.Norv on the other hand... horrible, how does he always find a job?I was reading the game thread for the first half since I wasn't home, and everyone said he was slow. Caught the second half, and he DID NOT look slow.

.... some people see what they want to see. I see the speed he always had. Denver's run D was pretty good today and LT almost averaged 4 YPC, got me 13 pts in a PPR and could have had 2 TDs if not for some bad coaching and bad QB throwing. I do not know about you but I love plugging someone with a floor of 13 pts and a ceiling beween 20 and 30 pts.

 

[Sweetness_34]

LT has little to no fantasy value. Move along people, nothing to see here.

You have me convinced

 

[LawFitz]

LT has little to no fantasy value. Move along people, nothing to see here.

100 yards total and 3 receptions against a very good D = no fantasy value?He's not the LT of a few years ago but in this offense he's going to be just fine. The TDs were the only thing lacking tonight and I suspect those will be the most consistent part of his game the rest of the season.

EXACTLY!!!LT clearly is not what he once was but let me get this straight...

1. He plays with a top 5 offense (even with a shoddy OL and horrible head coach)

2. He still has between 75-90% of his old playmaking ability

And some think he has no fantasy value. What a crock.

As long as LT stays healthy, he has plenty of fantasy value this season. I'll take 75% of the old LT on an offense with a great QB and other weapons any day.

 

[Sweetness_34]

LT has little to no fantasy value. Move along people, nothing to see here.

100 yards total and 3 receptions against a very good D = no fantasy value?He's not the LT of a few years ago but in this offense he's going to be just fine. The TDs were the only thing lacking tonight and I suspect those will be the most consistent part of his game the rest of the season.

EXACTLY!!!LT clearly is not what he once was but let me get this straight...

1. He plays with a top 5 offense (even with a shoddy OL and horrible head coach)

2. He still has between 75-90% of his old playmaking ability

And some think he has no fantasy value. What a crock.

As long as LT stays healthy, he has plenty of fantasy value this season. I'll take 75% of the old LT on an offense with a great QB and other weapons any day.

Especially when we know Sproles is horrible on the goal line....now if only his coach knew that

 

[CalBear]

I thought LT looked good on some runs (particularly the stiff-arm for 13 and the follow-up for 7), though not as explosive as he used to be. He could be very effective if San Diego ever stops sucking. He no longer can carry the team like he did back in 2003-2004.

 

[ttea]

I thought LT looked good on some runs (particularly the stiff-arm for 13 and the follow-up for 7), though not as explosive as he used to be. He could be very effective if San Diego ever stops sucking. He no longer can carry the team like he did back in 2003-2004.

Yeah I don't think anyone is saying he can. But those proclaiming a Priest Holmes like implosion are sorely mistaken.If you say you're concerned about his coach or his o-line, fine.But he himself does not look done at all.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Yes, this is not Shaun Alexander or Priest Holmes like fall of the face of the earth kind of situation here. LT will give his owners 10 to 30 pts any given week, and I will take that gladly.

 

[Loopdog]

Let me preface this by saying LT is one of, if not my favorite player ever. I watched every snap tonight, and while he did look better than he has so far this season, he is still a shell of his former self. I made a comment to my brother that he looks like he's ready to fall over at all times. It's like he's running on broken feet or something. He simply CAN NOT break a tackle anymore, or even really make anyone miss. I love LT, and will be a fan until he hangs them up, but he's not going to dominate games like he used to ever again. The Chargers can not run block, and he's obviously lost a step or two. Still a good player, and on a different team, he could still be very good, but on this Chargers team, he is not going to be blowing anyone away any time soon. There is a perfect storm of problems for him, between his age and declining skills, the line being downright awful, and Norv Turner being a complete moron and getting way too pass happy. There were several runs tonight that a 2007 LT would have taken to the house, no question. It's just his time. He is not done yet, but he's on the way.

 

[ttea]

I think the major argument is against those who took LT in round 1 (yes that includes me), and if he's worth it.

But honestly, looking at the projected round 1 picks, no one has shown any consistency outside of Steven Jackson and AP, but AP pretty much went first pick in most drafts so it's hard to use him in this example.

I was stuck with the 5th pick in my league, I actually considered Randy Moss, Drew Brees and Frank Gore at that spot, but I preferred RB, considering my leagues scoring.

LT has never missed a regular season game in his entire career, he was somewhat consistent considering his injury last year. And his division was considered weak, so I thought he was a good pick, didn't expect him to get hurt so early though.

So yeah, I don't know, all the consistently good RB seem to be coming from the later rounds this year, Rice, Brown, Benson etc...

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I think the major argument is against those who took LT in round 1 (yes that includes me), and if he's worth it.But honestly, looking at the projected round 1 picks, no one has shown any consistency outside of Steven Jackson and AP, but AP pretty much went first pick in most drafts so it's hard to use him in this example. I was stuck with the 5th pick in my league, I actually considered Randy Moss, Drew Brees and Frank Gore at that spot, but I preferred RB, considering my leagues scoring. LT has never missed a regular season game in his entire career, he was somewhat consistent considering his injury last year. And his division was considered weak, so I thought he was a good pick, didn't expect him to get hurt so early though.So yeah, I don't know, all the consistently good RB seem to be coming from the later rounds this year, Rice, Brown, Benson etc...

There is a lot of LT hate on this board. Guys "sticking a fork in him". Calling him a bust pick, etc. For where you picked him, mid first round, he really hasn't hurt you like some others, thinking about oh...Forte, Turner, etc. At least you haven't been forced to trot out LT and get snookered into having dead space on your team. You rolled with his backup Sproles in week 2 and did nicely. And you manage to use your depth. Speculation from some is that LT is the reason your LT led team "sucks". Well my LT led team is 6-0. Thanks LT. Glad to have you back. Get ready for the playoffs.Now that LT is starting to get healthy, and you could see it....Gruden was saying it last night. He is just about ready to break one. LT also has been resting for much of the early season getting healthy, so as a lot of other backs are breaking down and wearing out, he will be fresh by comparison. As an LT owner, I put up with a lot of abuse from LT haters, but I think I'll get the last laugh.

 

[DoctorFantasy]

I watched the entire game last night and thought for the most part LT looked pretty good against a top tier run defense. Sure, the old LT would have taken one of those runs to the house. However, the 30 year old LT is still a middle of the pack starting NFL back which means I think he could average around 12-15 points per game from here on out. Sproles had only one carry all game which was a goal line carry on a 3rd down play. However, there was no time sharing evident from the game last night other than Sproles giving LT a breather and some 3rd down work.

 

[Reaper]

He's basically Thomas Jones now....

Sure he could have a great day with some good OL play vs a weaker D but overall he's no longer special...

It must be so frustrating for him to see the field and know how he used to dominate it... Maybe he gets it back somehow?

And I actually lost last night because of his horrible blocking knocking SD out of FG range.

 

[zamboni]

Let me preface this by saying LT is one of, if not my favorite player ever. I watched every snap tonight, and while he did look better than he has so far this season, he is still a shell of his former self. I made a comment to my brother that he looks like he's ready to fall over at all times. It's like he's running on broken feet or something. He simply CAN NOT break a tackle anymore, or even really make anyone miss. I love LT, and will be a fan until he hangs them up, but he's not going to dominate games like he used to ever again. The Chargers can not run block, and he's obviously lost a step or two. Still a good player, and on a different team, he could still be very good, but on this Chargers team, he is not going to be blowing anyone away any time soon. There is a perfect storm of problems for him, between his age and declining skills, the line being downright awful, and Norv Turner being a complete moron and getting way too pass happy. There were several runs tonight that a 2007 LT would have taken to the house, no question. It's just his time. He is not done yet, but he's on the way.

I agree with much of what is said here.We can all agree that LT is not nearly the gamebreaker he used to be, a guy that can carry an offense even with a suspect OL. After all these thousands of touches, he's certainly somewhat worn down and has gotten to the point where he needs help up front - doesn't have the extra gear to get around the corner.

What concerns me most, however, is that Lt doesn't seem to want to fight for extra yards like he used to. That is, when he gets hit, he seems content to fall down and end the play. One would think on a national stage with the football world incessantly proclaiming that he's done would really motivate him. Only he knows what is going on inside, but as much as his body can't do it like it used to, I don't think his heart is totally in it either.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

He looked good for the most part, not to many people would get what he got against Denver!

Hes just been hurt people!

He lights up KC easy!

 

[Johnny Ice]

He looked good for the most part, not to many people would get what he got against Denver!Hes just been hurt people!He lights up KC easy!

And if he doesn't then what.

 

[switz]

Only a blind person can say LT is washed up after tonight. Seriously, are you kidding me? I am going to try and buy him in all my dynast leagues if I can after tonight.

I'm not sure I'd buy him in all dynasty leagues, as he is getting older. But I agree, LT doesn't look washed up, the OL looks horrid run blocking, and the coaching is terrible. I wonder what Cowher or Shanahan would do. Even Gruden I think would take this team to a Super Bowl.Turner really just needs to recognize he's just OC material, not HC material. And when he's an HC he seems to screw up the OC part.

 

[switz]

There is a lot of LT hate on this board.

It stems from way back, when LT was drafted and the FBG stance was that he'd be a bust because he played at TCU, a small school. The FBG idea was that Michael Bennett was the steal, and LT would be an afterthought in a few seasons. Of course LT proved them all wrong, and so the group think was forced to acknowledge that he was good when he was dominating the league, but as soon as age started catching up, pride and ego drove people to overreact and predict a greater demise than what was realistic.This was also the reason when Onterrio Smith came into the league, the FBGs all hated him, because he was a threat to Bennett, and a much better RB at that. However Smith was a headcase, but there was only one guy on here who was right that his lack of discipline would be his downfall (not me - packersfan or blueonion). Everyone else (except me) thought Smith was a non-talent.Same thing happened when Edge and RW were drafted, and the FBG think was that Edge would be the suck, and RW the GOAT. Had Edge not blown up his knee, we'll never know how good he could have been, and just how wrong FBGs were. Though RW has turned out to be a good RB.You'll see this get repeated when ADP stars wearing down toward the end of his career, as many FBGs said he was too injury prone to be successful. After 8 or 9 years when age starts catching up and he has a few minor injuries, there will be the mob "injury prone" "washed up" shouters.You even see some of it now with Felix Jones, where most FBGers were saying he wasn't that talented, and only was successful, because McFadden and the Wildcat were giving him huge running lanes. Now that he's shown he's one of the elite talents, they change their attack to him being injury prone, which he may be. But they were wrong about him only being successful because of McFadden and the "gimmick" offense.It's cyclical on here.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

There is a lot of LT hate on this board.

It stems from way back, when LT was drafted and the FBG stance was that he'd be a bust because he played at TCU, a small school. The FBG idea was that Michael Bennett was the steal, and LT would be an afterthought in a few seasons. Of course LT proved them all wrong, and so the group think was forced to acknowledge that he was good when he was dominating the league, but as soon as age started catching up, pride and ego drove people to overreact and predict a greater demise than what was realistic.This was also the reason when Onterrio Smith came into the league, the FBGs all hated him, because he was a threat to Bennett, and a much better RB at that. However Smith was a headcase, but there was only one guy on here who was right that his lack of discipline would be his downfall (not me - packersfan or blueonion). Everyone else (except me) thought Smith was a non-talent.Same thing happened when Edge and RW were drafted, and the FBG think was that Edge would be the suck, and RW the GOAT. Had Edge not blown up his knee, we'll never know how good he could have been, and just how wrong FBGs were. Though RW has turned out to be a good RB.You'll see this get repeated when ADP stars wearing down toward the end of his career, as many FBGs said he was too injury prone to be successful. After 8 or 9 years when age starts catching up and he has a few minor injuries, there will be the mob "injury prone" "washed up" shouters.You even see some of it now with Felix Jones, where most FBGers were saying he wasn't that talented, and only was successful, because McFadden and the Wildcat were giving him huge running lanes. Now that he's shown he's one of the elite talents, they change their attack to him being injury prone, which he may be. But they were wrong about him only being successful because of McFadden and the "gimmick" offense.It's cyclical on here.

dude good points until you had to muddle it all up with the Felix Jones non-sense. That dude cant stay on the field. fact.As far as LT goes he has nice matchups the next two week and I expect him to do well, but after that he has tough matchups. He's 30, has alot of miles on his legs, the OLine is terrible at run blocking and Norv isnt going to fix it.

 

[fsufan]

He's basically Thomas Jones now....Sure he could have a great day with some good OL play vs a weaker D but overall he's no longer special...It must be so frustrating for him to see the field and know how he used to dominate it... Maybe he gets it back somehow?And I actually lost last night because of his horrible blocking knocking SD out of FG range.

Jones is like 2nd or 3rd in rushing yards over the past 3 year

 

[username]

man... watching him.. he still LOOKS strong and makes the cuts but it sure does seem like he goes down at first contact way too often now.

 

[rrhartjr]

He's basically Thomas Jones now....Sure he could have a great day with some good OL play vs a weaker D but overall he's no longer special...It must be so frustrating for him to see the field and know how he used to dominate it... Maybe he gets it back somehow?And I actually lost last night because of his horrible blocking knocking SD out of FG range.

Jones is like 2nd or 3rd in rushing yards over the past 3 year

That doesn't change the fact that he (Thomas Jones) is a mediocre one cut runner that relies on good blocking ahead of him. NYJ had a dominating O-line last year, and that's why he was so good. This year the O-line is showing its age (esp. Faneca) and he has become less effective.I think TJ is a fantastic compare for LdT 2009 Edition. While previous editions could make people miss with speed and moves, the 2009 Edition just doesn't have that top gear or cut ability anymore. That doesn't mean he's now useless or talentless, just different.The SD O-line has suffered a massive decrease in effectiveness over the last two years between injury and general decline. The 2006 Edition LdT would have just run around his pancaked blockers, but 3 years later, he cannot. It's one of the reasons you're seeing more of Darren Sproles (and Leon Washington for that matter), both coaches believe that the change of pace guy is more effective in a situation where you cannot hope to win the point of attack battles. That's why you saw Sproles at the goal line early, I think Norv was already aware that Denver's defense was beating them up front. Although I can't say why he ran a draw, but the logic sort of follows to that point.

 

[dansav]

Man LT is too emotional. ESPN is recapping the game right now and they took him out on a 3rd and goal play and you see him pouting and shaking his head on the sideline and threw his helmet to the ground.Just seems he always pulls this stuff...

LT did all the grunt work to get it down inside the 5, then Norv pulls him in favour of a 5'6" guy who weighs a buck sixty soaking wet, who then tried running inside and got stoned.I'd be mad too, as I think any competitor would be.

Isnt Sproles the 3rd down back????

 

[dansav]

Man LT is too emotional. ESPN is recapping the game right now and they took him out on a 3rd and goal play and you see him pouting and shaking his head on the sideline and threw his helmet to the ground.Just seems he always pulls this stuff...

He should be pissed. They pulled him on 3rd and goal from the 1 for DARREN SPROLES. You're allowed to get pissed at your coach for being the biggest idiot in the league.

Isnt sproles the 3rd down back x2?

 

[switz]

There is a lot of LT hate on this board.

It stems from way back, when LT was drafted and the FBG stance was that he'd be a bust because he played at TCU, a small school. The FBG idea was that Michael Bennett was the steal, and LT would be an afterthought in a few seasons. Of course LT proved them all wrong, and so the group think was forced to acknowledge that he was good when he was dominating the league, but as soon as age started catching up, pride and ego drove people to overreact and predict a greater demise than what was realistic.This was also the reason when Onterrio Smith came into the league, the FBGs all hated him, because he was a threat to Bennett, and a much better RB at that. However Smith was a headcase, but there was only one guy on here who was right that his lack of discipline would be his downfall (not me - packersfan or blueonion). Everyone else (except me) thought Smith was a non-talent.

Same thing happened when Edge and RW were drafted, and the FBG think was that Edge would be the suck, and RW the GOAT. Had Edge not blown up his knee, we'll never know how good he could have been, and just how wrong FBGs were. Though RW has turned out to be a good RB.

You'll see this get repeated when ADP stars wearing down toward the end of his career, as many FBGs said he was too injury prone to be successful. After 8 or 9 years when age starts catching up and he has a few minor injuries, there will be the mob "injury prone" "washed up" shouters.

You even see some of it now with Felix Jones, where most FBGers were saying he wasn't that talented, and only was successful, because McFadden and the Wildcat were giving him huge running lanes. Now that he's shown he's one of the elite talents, they change their attack to him being injury prone, which he may be. But they were wrong about him only being successful because of McFadden and the "gimmick" offense.

It's cyclical on here.

dude good points until you had to muddle it all up with the Felix Jones non-sense. That dude cant stay on the field. fact.As far as LT goes he has nice matchups the next two week and I expect him to do well, but after that he has tough matchups. He's 30, has alot of miles on his legs, the OLine is terrible at run blocking and Norv isnt going to fix it.

Right. But that wasn't the reason people were down on him when he was drafted. fact.

 

[Banger]

Man LT is too emotional. ESPN is recapping the game right now and they took him out on a 3rd and goal play and you see him pouting and shaking his head on the sideline and threw his helmet to the ground.Just seems he always pulls this stuff...

He should be pissed. They pulled him on 3rd and goal from the 1 for DARREN SPROLES. You're allowed to get pissed at your coach for being the biggest idiot in the league.

Isnt sproles the 3rd down back x2?

not on a rushing play from the 2. He barely got in on 3rd downs last night.

 

[Spike]

Let me preface this by saying LT is one of, if not my favorite player ever. I watched every snap tonight, and while he did look better than he has so far this season, he is still a shell of his former self. I made a comment to my brother that he looks like he's ready to fall over at all times. It's like he's running on broken feet or something. He simply CAN NOT break a tackle anymore, or even really make anyone miss. I love LT, and will be a fan until he hangs them up, but he's not going to dominate games like he used to ever again. The Chargers can not run block, and he's obviously lost a step or two. Still a good player, and on a different team, he could still be very good, but on this Chargers team, he is not going to be blowing anyone away any time soon. There is a perfect storm of problems for him, between his age and declining skills, the line being downright awful, and Norv Turner being a complete moron and getting way too pass happy. There were several runs tonight that a 2007 LT would have taken to the house, no question. It's just his time. He is not done yet, but he's on the way.

I agree with much of what is said here.We can all agree that LT is not nearly the gamebreaker he used to be, a guy that can carry an offense even with a suspect OL. After all these thousands of touches, he's certainly somewhat worn down and has gotten to the point where he needs help up front - doesn't have the extra gear to get around the corner.

What concerns me most, however, is that Lt doesn't seem to want to fight for extra yards like he used to. That is, when he gets hit, he seems content to fall down and end the play. One would think on a national stage with the football world incessantly proclaiming that he's done would really motivate him. Only he knows what is going on inside, but as much as his body can't do it like it used to, I don't think his heart is totally in it either.

Interesting perspective. I don't agree or disagree but it's given me something to think about. Thanks!

 

[rrhartjr]

Interesting perspective. I don't agree or disagree but it's given me something to think about. Thanks!

Also consider that's he's done everything statistically there is to do, he's made tons of money. The only thing left for LT is to win a Super Bowl. Raise your hand if you think Norv is gonna lead the Chargers to a Super Bowl? The lack of motivation is understandable.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The most telling sign about the state of LaDainian Tomlinson's career came in the first quarter Monday night. Phillip Rivers was under heavy pressure and made a great play to flip the ball two-handed to Tomlinson who was wide open.

As Tomlinson bounded into the secondary, he encountered Broncos CB Andre' Goodman in the open field. The old LT2 would have ran around, through or just plain by the light-hitting Goodman. Not this LT2. Goodman made the solo tackle, preventing that huge play.

That was the way it went for Tomlinson against the Broncos. He was the unquestioned feature back (18 carries vs. one for Darren Sproles). He was fresh out of a bye and all his wheels were intact. The Chargers tried to establish a running game. But Tomlinson constantly couldn't break through that second level. He ended up with 18 carries for 70 yards and three catches for 30 yards. He also threw his helmet and was visibly upset on the sideline when Norv Turner tried to catch the Broncos off guard by giving Darren Sproles a goal-line carry.

The positive signs were that Tomlinson looked quick off the snap and through the holes. He just wasn't fast or strong enough to get through the linebackers. Perhaps when the Chargers' schedule lightens (@ Chiefs, vs. Raiders next two week) it will be easier for Tomlinson to produce numbers. Or perhaps the Chargers will realize that Tomlinson isn't a great fit for this offense.

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

 

[Hedgehog]

As a frutrated LT owner I was pleased with last night....TJ is a good comparison as is Curtis Martin at the end of his career - not elite but should be a low end #1 or very good #2. Not great for a 1st rd pick but as we've seen it could be much worse!

Bottom line - you can win with LT as your #1 with a decent team around him

 

[Statcruncher]

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

A "low end" RB2 would put him around the 18th to 24th guy on the list. I know everyone has different opinions but I can't come up with a list of 18 - 23 RB's I'd rather have over Tomlinson for the rest of the 2009 season.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

A "low end" RB2 would put him around the 18th to 24th guy on the list. I know everyone has different opinions but I can't come up with a list of 18 - 23 RB's I'd rather have over Tomlinson for the rest of the 2009 season.

really? I can

 

[rrhartjr]

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

A "low end" RB2 would put him around the 18th to 24th guy on the list. I know everyone has different opinions but I can't come up with a list of 18 - 23 RB's I'd rather have over Tomlinson for the rest of the 2009 season.

really? I can

MJDADP

Turner

Forte

SJax

Williams

Pierre Thomas

Thomas Jones

Ray Rice

Kevin Smith

CJ

Mendenhall

Benson

Grant

Portis

Slaton

Jacobs

Lynch

Moreno

That's 19 that I (in my feeble opinion) would consider equal value for the remainder of the 2009 season (schedule, usage, etc), in no particular order.

I'm sure an argument can be made on potential for at least 5 others, such as:

Bradshaw

Westbrook

Hightower

Cadillac

Stewart

McCoy

Jamal Lewis

Julius Jones

Maroney

 

[Chaos Commish]

The most telling sign about the state of LaDainian Tomlinson's career came in the first quarter Monday night. Phillip Rivers was under heavy pressure and made a great play to flip the ball two-handed to Tomlinson who was wide open. As Tomlinson bounded into the secondary, he encountered Broncos CB Andre' Goodman in the open field. The old LT2 would have ran around, through or just plain by the light-hitting Goodman. Not this LT2. Goodman made the solo tackle, preventing that huge play.

That play bothered me. There were two others, both traps with the option to cut inside or off tackle. Both times the maligned Charger O-Line opened gaping holes with a clear lane down the field. Both times LT read it right, hit the hole and was tripped up by the back of the pulling guard's feet and went down from that contact. No patience, no balance. I believe Sproles would have been off to the races both times.

 

[Statcruncher]

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

A "low end" RB2 would put him around the 18th to 24th guy on the list. I know everyone has different opinions but I can't come up with a list of 18 - 23 RB's I'd rather have over Tomlinson for the rest of the 2009 season.

really? I can

MJDADP

Turner

Forte

SJax

Williams

Pierre Thomas

Thomas Jones

Ray Rice

Kevin Smith

CJ

Mendenhall

Benson

Grant

Portis

Slaton

Jacobs

Lynch

Moreno

That's 19 that I (in my feeble opinion) would consider equal value for the remainder of the 2009 season (schedule, usage, etc), in no particular order.

I'm sure an argument can be made on potential for at least 5 others, such as:

Bradshaw

Westbrook

Hightower

Cadillac

Stewart

McCoy

Jamal Lewis

Julius Jones

Maroney

Time will tell. Things will be pretty cut and dried 11 weeks from now.

 

[ttea]

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

A "low end" RB2 would put him around the 18th to 24th guy on the list. I know everyone has different opinions but I can't come up with a list of 18 - 23 RB's I'd rather have over Tomlinson for the rest of the 2009 season.

really? I can

MJDADP

Turner

Forte

SJax

Williams

Pierre Thomas

Thomas Jones

Ray Rice

Kevin Smith

CJ

Mendenhall

Benson

Grant

Portis

Slaton

Jacobs

Lynch

Moreno

That's 19 that I (in my feeble opinion) would consider equal value for the remainder of the 2009 season (schedule, usage, etc), in no particular order.

I'm sure an argument can be made on potential for at least 5 others, such as:

Bradshaw

Westbrook

Hightower

Cadillac

Stewart

McCoy

Jamal Lewis

Julius Jones

Maroney

Seriously? Lists like this contribute nothing and are all opinion and based on very little fact. McCoy, Forte, Caddillac, Julius Jones? Lets list all the RBs I can think of!

C'mon MAN!

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

A "low end" RB2 would put him around the 18th to 24th guy on the list. I know everyone has different opinions but I can't come up with a list of 18 - 23 RB's I'd rather have over Tomlinson for the rest of the 2009 season.

really? I can

MJDADP

Turner

Forte

SJax

Williams

Pierre Thomas

Thomas Jones

Ray Rice

Kevin Smith

CJ

Mendenhall

Benson

Grant

Portis

Slaton

Jacobs

Lynch

Moreno

That's 19 that I (in my feeble opinion) would consider equal value for the remainder of the 2009 season (schedule, usage, etc), in no particular order.

I'm sure an argument can be made on potential for at least 5 others, such as:

Bradshaw

Westbrook

Hightower

Cadillac

Stewart

McCoy

Jamal Lewis

Julius Jones

Maroney

You are just being silly.

 

[ttea]

The most telling sign about the state of LaDainian Tomlinson's career came in the first quarter Monday night. Phillip Rivers was under heavy pressure and made a great play to flip the ball two-handed to Tomlinson who was wide open. As Tomlinson bounded into the secondary, he encountered Broncos CB Andre' Goodman in the open field. The old LT2 would have ran around, through or just plain by the light-hitting Goodman. Not this LT2. Goodman made the solo tackle, preventing that huge play.

That play bothered me. There were two others, both traps with the option to cut inside or off tackle. Both times the maligned Charger O-Line opened gaping holes with a clear lane down the field. Both times LT read it right, hit the hole and was tripped up by the back of the pulling guard's feet and went down from that contact. No patience, no balance. I believe Sproles would have been off to the races both times.

Yeah, the thing I've noticed most is that he goes down wayyyyy to easily from the slightest touch. He hit his holes well when they were there but then falls down by imaginary contact it seems.Maybe it's the ankle, he did mention he's not at full strength, but which running back is really ever 100%

 

[Da Guru]

The old LT would have had at least 30-40 more yards last night.

LT should be a decent #2 RB the rest of the way, Sproles is eating up yards that used to be LTs.

 

[EdwardCat]

The old LT would have had at least 30-40 more yards last night.LT should be a decent #2 RB the rest of the way, Sproles is eating up yards that used to be LTs.

So you are saying those 4 yards that Sproles got last night would have significantly contributed to LT's bottom line?

 

[netnalp]

I predict Lt to be cut this offseason then signed by the Pats.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The old LT would have had at least 30-40 more yards last night.LT should be a decent #2 RB the rest of the way, Sproles is eating up yards that used to be LTs.

See here is the thing, Sproles isnt getting any yards at all with LT healthy. Norv doesnt know how to use them both.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

The old LT would have had at least 30-40 more yards last night.LT should be a decent #2 RB the rest of the way, Sproles is eating up yards that used to be LTs.

So you are saying those 4 yards that Sproles got last night would have significantly contributed to LT's bottom line?

LOL, i was thinking the same thing.Sproles was eating up LT's yards when LT was hurt. Lt is healthier now than he has been in a while.Last night was the first game of LT's career where I didn't own him (traded him in my keeper before last week's bye).I've been watching him since game 1 in 2001.Watching all of last night's game, my sentiments are the same as many here. Vintage Tomlinson would have had about 100-130 yards rushing and at least 1 TD.Of course, vintage LT also had a superior O-line. I think he looked fine for a 30-year-old RB. Not as fast, quick , or explosive, but definitely not washed up.I'm actually going to try and trade for him back!

 

[SSOG]

Man LT is too emotional. ESPN is recapping the game right now and they took him out on a 3rd and goal play and you see him pouting and shaking his head on the sideline and threw his helmet to the ground.Just seems he always pulls this stuff...

He should be pissed. They pulled him on 3rd and goal from the 1 for DARREN SPROLES. You're allowed to get pissed at your coach for being the biggest idiot in the league.

Isnt sproles the 3rd down back x2?

"3rd down back" doesn't mean "hey, it's third down, let's bring in our third down back!". "3rd down backs" are RBs with great receiving and blocking skills but so/so running skills. That skillset lends itself incredibly well to third... AND LONG (aka "obvious passing situations"). "3rd down back" is a quick way of saying "obvious passing situation back". 3rd and goal from the 2 is not an obvious passing situation- in that situation, you want your best RUNNER on the field, or a "short yardage specialist" if you have one.Besides, even if 3rd down back did mean that someone got every 3rd down regardless of distance... who is more likely to score on a running play there, Tomlinson or Sproles? Turner needed to use some common sense. On 3rd and goal, you use the player who gives you the best chance of scoring, regardless of what fancy nickname you might have given someone else.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The old LT would have had at least 30-40 more yards last night.LT should be a decent #2 RB the rest of the way, Sproles is eating up yards that used to be LTs.

See here is the thing, Sproles isnt getting any yards at all with LT healthy. Norv doesnt know how to use them both.

well i for one am very happy about this...as i own both...sproles is on my bench until the inevitable L.T injury...no more wondering who to start because sproles MIGHT take a screen pass 80 yards to paydirt one game...ugh

 

[2ksports]

The most telling sign about the state of LaDainian Tomlinson's career came in the first quarter Monday night. Phillip Rivers was under heavy pressure and made a great play to flip the ball two-handed to Tomlinson who was wide open.

As Tomlinson bounded into the secondary, he encountered Broncos CB Andre' Goodman in the open field. The old LT2 would have ran around, through or just plain by the light-hitting Goodman. Not this LT2. Goodman made the solo tackle, preventing that huge play.

That was the way it went for Tomlinson against the Broncos. He was the unquestioned feature back (18 carries vs. one for Darren Sproles). He was fresh out of a bye and all his wheels were intact. The Chargers tried to establish a running game. But Tomlinson constantly couldn't break through that second level. He ended up with 18 carries for 70 yards and three catches for 30 yards. He also threw his helmet and was visibly upset on the sideline when Norv Turner tried to catch the Broncos off guard by giving Darren Sproles a goal-line carry.

The positive signs were that Tomlinson looked quick off the snap and through the holes. He just wasn't fast or strong enough to get through the linebackers. Perhaps when the Chargers' schedule lightens (@ Chiefs, vs. Raiders next two week) it will be easier for Tomlinson to produce numbers. Or perhaps the Chargers will realize that Tomlinson isn't a great fit for this offense.

Either way, Tomlinson will be a risky, low end RB2 play the rest of the way. And Monday night did nothing to change that.



http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...p;article=33930

 

[Dought Man]

I think a lot of people "hate" on LT because he has been such a poor playoff peformer, or non existant (sulking on the sidelines, appearing to be somewhat scared/dejected).

Its kind of like the McNabb thing. If you lose a lot in big spots or dont perform in the big spots, you get a lot of people just saying, "he sucks!!! He cant win the big one. I hate that guy!!!"

We build you up to break you down in fantasy and reality. You see this with a number of players. Vick, Culpepper and most of the 'running' QB's come to mind, as well as Romo, McNabb, Tomlinson, Shawn Alexander, etc, etc.

Tomlinson can put a lot of this to rest with a couple of 20 pt performances the next 2 weeks, but people will keep hating because LT is no longer the girl with the curl, the new kid on the block or generally likeable to the masses. We've seen his tantrums, his failures and all the warts. Only post season winners get the benefit of the doubt from the media and middle America.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I think a lot of people "hate" on LT because he has been such a poor playoff peformer, or non existant (sulking on the sidelines, appearing to be somewhat scared/dejected).Its kind of like the McNabb thing. If you lose a lot in big spots or dont perform in the big spots, you get a lot of people just saying, "he sucks!!! He cant win the big one. I hate that guy!!!"We build you up to break you down in fantasy and reality. You see this with a number of players. Vick, Culpepper and most of the 'running' QB's come to mind, as well as Romo, McNabb, Tomlinson, Shawn Alexander, etc, etc.Tomlinson can put a lot of this to rest with a couple of 20 pt performances the next 2 weeks, but people will keep hating because LT is no longer the girl with the curl, the new kid on the block or generally likeable to the masses. We've seen his tantrums, his failures and all the warts. Only post season winners get the benefit of the doubt from the media and middle America.

no offence my friend ......but thats waaaay off....people in fantasy football dont care if players have tantrums...we only care that they perform according to when we draft them...L.T went in the first round in almost all drafts because we were hoping he could recapture his old form...its looking very unlikely to happen...its really that simple

 

[davearm]

Man LT is too emotional. ESPN is recapping the game right now and they took him out on a 3rd and goal play and you see him pouting and shaking his head on the sideline and threw his helmet to the ground.Just seems he always pulls this stuff...

He should be pissed. They pulled him on 3rd and goal from the 1 for DARREN SPROLES. You're allowed to get pissed at your coach for being the biggest idiot in the league.

Isnt sproles the 3rd down back x2?

"3rd down back" doesn't mean "hey, it's third down, let's bring in our third down back!". "3rd down backs" are RBs with great receiving and blocking skills but so/so running skills. That skillset lends itself incredibly well to third... AND LONG (aka "obvious passing situations"). "3rd down back" is a quick way of saying "obvious passing situation back". 3rd and goal from the 2 is not an obvious passing situation- in that situation, you want your best RUNNER on the field, or a "short yardage specialist" if you have one.Besides, even if 3rd down back did mean that someone got every 3rd down regardless of distance... who is more likely to score on a running play there, Tomlinson or Sproles? Turner needed to use some common sense. On 3rd and goal, you use the player who gives you the best chance of scoring, regardless of what fancy nickname you might have given someone else.

It'd be interesting to see the run/pass split across the entire NFL given a range of "third-and" situations (and 1, and 2, and 3 or 4, and 5-10, 10+).I bet it would tell us that in today's NFL, third down is a passing down a vast majority of the time, including third and shorts. Teams just don't run for it on third down very often anymore.