Is Phillip Rivers Overrated? (1 Viewer)

[LHUCKS]

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers. What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

 

[Tau837]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

 

[Despyzer]

This is the best thread of the day...there are homers like you that try to hack it up but go ahead and look at some of the posts in this thread and compare them to any other thread started today. If it's not the best it's probably top 5.

this thread is overrated.

It's not even in my top 14.

 

[Pack43]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

You're kidding right? You think Brees has a stronger arm??

 

[Pack43]

I like to start threads where I differ from the status quo and that obviously is misinterpreted as being vindictive from time to time.

So we can expect these threads where you bash Rivers without any statistical evidence to be a regular occurrence? Wonderful.

I'm not "bashing" Rivers. I'm merely saying he's overrated by the public. Only those that are emotionally invested in Rivers would interpret this thread as a "bashing" thread. Go ahead and look at the average response from the Chargers homers vs. the non Chargers homers.The threads where "statistical evidence" tells the entire story don't interest me...they are unchallenging and for the guppies as far as I'm concerned.

Those that can find the misleading stats and use them to their advantage...those are the sharks.

I dare say no one on this entire board is more "emotionally invested" in Rivers than you are against him. We have countless, factless posts and threads from you to support that.

 

[Tau837]

I like to start threads where I differ from the status quo and that obviously is misinterpreted as being vindictive from time to time.

So we can expect these threads where you bash Rivers without any statistical evidence to be a regular occurrence? Wonderful.

I'm not "bashing" Rivers. I'm merely saying he's overrated by the public. Only those that are emotionally invested in Rivers would interpret this thread as a "bashing" thread. Go ahead and look at the average response from the Chargers homers vs. the non Chargers homers.The threads where "statistical evidence" tells the entire story don't interest me...they are unchallenging and for the guppies as far as I'm concerned.

Those that can find the misleading stats and use them to their advantage...those are the sharks.

I dare say no one on this entire board is more "emotionally invested" in Rivers than you are against him. We have countless, factless posts and threads from you to support that.

 

[Christo]

This loss was not Rivers fault and even implying that makes you lose credibility.

BTW, I could care less about the Chargers.

The loss was definitely not Rivers fault and I NEVER implied that anywhere in this thread. I've stated that Brees would have been able to win that game for the Chargers, that doesn't mean Rivers lost it.Rivers did much of what he did during the regular season in that game, played within his limited ability and didn't do much more than an average QB would have done.

Of course it does.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

You're kidding right? You think Brees has a stronger arm??

Yes.This comes from watching the games, not by stats.

Brees throws a better ball.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

You're kidding right? You think Brees has a stronger arm??

Yes.This comes from watching the games, not by stats.

Brees throws a better ball.

Honestly, what I have seen of Rivers this year has been pretty limited (like I said in my first post). Having moved down to Florida I just see the Chargers on the national games and highlights. But, my early impressions were he hadn't seemed to lack any arm strength. I could be wrong. My point was that he is benifiting from the LT factor in the defenses he faces. Teams can't rush at him as hard, they can't play normal coverages, etc. I think that defenses concede holes to him.

The situation reminds me of Culpepper when Moss was in Minnesota in some ways. Here is this superstar that forces you to make concessions on defense. And then here is the guy who benifits from it. Take away the superstar and does the other player smell as sweet? Ask Culpepper how it went when defenses could start crowding the line and bringing more sophisticated blitzes. I just haven't seen Rivers carry the load yet.

And I only think he is overrated insomuch that I believe there were other QBs more deserving of the Pro Bowl vote this year. Rivers obviously overachieved preseason expectations (at least for me).

Personally my Pro Bowl vote for the AFC would be -

Manning

Palmer

Brady

IMO Brady did more to help his team win and had more impact on his teams wins than Rivers had with his. Shoot me, but those would be my top 3.

And if you really push me I would put Vince Young at #4, maybe even #3 for his performance this year. What he did this year was magic. And that team was O-fer when he took over with no stars on offense.

 

[LHUCKS]

Nice. Good to see the "No" vote is down to 58%...much lower than I thought it would be.

 

[LHUCKS]

And if you really push me I would put Vince Young at #4, maybe even #3 for his performance this year. What he did this year was magic. And that team was O-fer when he took over with no stars on offense.

Yep...VY was one of the QBs on my list. I don't know that VY will ever be a great QB, but he was better than Rivers this year.

 

[Pack43]

Nice. Good to see the "No" vote is down to 58%...much lower than I thought it would be.

Does that mean the "Yes" is higher than you expected or is it the "Undecided"?

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line..

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

Y'know, you are absolutely right. I looked at a friends tapes for a little while. He does seem to drop balls in there and let receivers run under them, very few are on a line.

I hadn't really noticed.

 

[UCLAGIE]

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line..

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

Y'know, you are absolutely right. I looked at a friends tapes for a little while. He does seem to drop balls in there and let receivers run under them, very few are on a line.

I hadn't really noticed.

So he leads his recievers? Is that something foreign to you?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

A live arm?That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. <snip>I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I don't think there's any disputing the fact that Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees. It's really not close when you watch them both throw. In camp practices and in preseason games, the biggest difference between Brees and Rivers besides height was always that Rivers throws with more zip.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

A live arm?That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. <snip>I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I don't think there's any disputing the fact that Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees. It's really not close when you watch them both throw side by side.

Couldn't disagree more.Brees could throw 20 yard passes and the ball would hardly have an arc. Rivers can't.There's more to QB'ing than arm strength, but I can't understand what you're seeing differently.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

Jeff, you are not correct here on 2 points. First, the pass to Jackson was EXCELLENT and that was a poor job by VJ.Second, there is NO way Brees has a stronger arm than Rivers. Rivers does kind of shot put the ball, but it is also a quick release. His arm strength is without question stronger than Brees. Brees arm strength is in the bottom 15% of starters in the league.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Brees could throw 20 yard passes and the ball would hardly have an arc. Rivers can't.

All I can tell you is that I've watched a lot of those guys on the same field together, throwing one after the other, and to me, saying that Brees throws an out pattern with less of an arc than Rivers is like saying that Keenan McCardell is quicker than Eric Parker. It's not a subtle difference when you see them side by side. Brees throws with less zip and more arc. When watching any of the drills, that's one of the ways you could tell which QB threw a particular ball, aside from looking at jersey number.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I actually voted overrated, but there really isn't enough on him to judge effectively.

Everyone on defense and their mothers are doing everything they can to stop LT when teams play SD. I think Rivers (and the receivers) are pretty much an afterthought. Gates MAYBE some threat. But not much.

IMO Its like why the #2 WR often outperfoms the #1 receiver statistically. Because the other team is scheming to stop the other guy.

The first few weeks of the season they barely trusted Rivers to throw at all. I guess I would like to see how he performs if the running game was not as dominant.

IMO at this point Rivers is the product of being the little brother (Rushing = BIG/Passing = little) in the offensive ballance in SD with every teams defense trying everything to stop the Big Dog. Or is he a Gorilla, I forget sometimes. Regardless, I know he's a beast.

Having said all that, he's played effeciently most of the time. Maybe he is the next John Elway. I just haven't seen enough yet. He has a live arm. I'd like to see him play against more mixed zones. But with LT you just aren't going to see many exotics like the Steelers or Bears like to run. Teams have to play close to the line.

Ask me again in 3 years. Right now, overrated.

Whoa.... wait a minute.A live arm?

That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. That throwing motion looks like a shotputter more than a QB. Any throw over 10 yards takes F O R E V E R to get there and isn't on a rope. Find a tape of the NE game and you'll a stark contrast between Brady's arm and Rivers. Forget the catches / incompletes - just look at how the throws got to / near a receiver. Brady zipped more than Rivers by a ton.

A case can be made that some of the WR drops were because the ball took so long to get there. Did VJax have to jump at the 2? Maybe not, but I bet he does in most practices with Rivers.

What about the TD where VJax should have tapped his second foot? Well, if the ball gets there a split second earlier, it's 6 in stride and no tap dance is needed.

I don't like Rivers' arm, and I think some of his numbers are inflated by LT2's catches and YAC. Rivers reminds me of Bernie Kosar. He could have a long career, but "journeyman" could be a label that gets attached to him.

I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I also agree that QBs get too much credit / blame more often than not about victories / losses. The perfect analogy here is a starting pitcher. If you don't get run support, you're dead meat even if you pitch well.

I find it amusing that your main issue with Rivers is his arm, but you think the team should have kept and played Brees over Rivers. Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees.

You're kidding right? You think Brees has a stronger arm??

Yes.This comes from watching the games, not by stats.

Brees throws a better ball.

"Throws a better ball" is not arm strength? So now you are saying he throws a better spiral? That may be true, but he still has a weaker arm. The only guy I would definitely take Brees over IN TERMS OF ARM STRENGTH is Pennington

 

[Liquid Tension]

A live arm?That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. <snip>I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I don't think there's any disputing the fact that Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees. It's really not close when you watch them both throw side by side.

Couldn't disagree more.Brees could throw 20 yard passes and the ball would hardly have an arc. Rivers can't.There's more to QB'ing than arm strength, but I can't understand what you're seeing differently.

Jeff, you are on an island on this one.Nobody is saying Rivers is a better QB than Brees but you need to watch the video tape again regarding arm strength. One main point to look for with arm strength is to see when a QB is forced to throw with just or mostly his arm like on the run or fading back because of a guy in his face. Brees is VERY weak at this.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

A live arm?That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. <snip>I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I don't think there's any disputing the fact that Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees. It's really not close when you watch them both throw side by side.

Couldn't disagree more.Brees could throw 20 yard passes and the ball would hardly have an arc. Rivers can't.There's more to QB'ing than arm strength, but I can't understand what you're seeing differently.

Jeff, you are on an island on this one.Nobody is saying Rivers is a better QB than Brees but you need to watch the video tape again regarding arm strength. One main point to look for with arm strength is to see when a QB is forced to throw with just or mostly his arm like on the run or fading back because of a guy in his face. Brees is VERY weak at this.

I've seen multiple throws by Brees this year (don't look before this year - the shoulder surgery changed him) and in the playoffs he has thrown solid passes, with zip and no arc, down the middle of the field and in stride to WRs and TEs.The entire game for Rivers vs. NE, he had a quick delivery but so what? If the ball is in the air for a while, DBs will close on the spot and receivers will be susceptible to getting drilled and/or the ball defensed (if not picked off).Brees has a better arm, and I don't see it any other way.I'll remain on fantasy island if need be, but Brees won a lot of games this year throwing some deep passes to Colston and Henderson and Copper. Hail Marys, skinny posts and deep outs, all worked well. We should get back to the discussion of Rivers, rather than Brees. I'll be watching and re-watching Brees' efforts, but I don't see anything that has made me even think about changing my opinion on just their arm strengths.

 

[marinolives13]

These were his #'s last year in his 4th year as a starter with nearly the same supporting cast....323 500 3576 7.2 24 15 and in Rivers 1st year as a starter he went for....284 460 3388 7.4 22 9.

I didn't realize the 4th quarter of regular season games was all that mattered. Further, I've given a synopsis as to why those numbers are misleading in the first place.

slow down. Brees in his 4th year, not 4th qtr.

Here's my edited response:In terms of being "overrated" I don't think this comparison is really relevant, especially when Brees likely could have been the difference for the Chargers THIS year.

You mean like Brees was in 2004 when he was a 3rd year starter that didn't go 14-2 on the Chargers, and got bounced in the wild card game by the Jets? That Drew Brees? Or the one in 2002, 2003 and 2005 that didn't even make the playoffs?

I dont think rivers is overrated, but he is not even close to brees this year!

 

[Liquid Tension]

A live arm?That's my main issue with Rivers at this point. <snip>I agree with the earlier statement that they should have kept Brees.

I don't think there's any disputing the fact that Rivers has a stronger arm than Brees. It's really not close when you watch them both throw side by side.

Couldn't disagree more.Brees could throw 20 yard passes and the ball would hardly have an arc. Rivers can't.There's more to QB'ing than arm strength, but I can't understand what you're seeing differently.

Jeff, you are on an island on this one.Nobody is saying Rivers is a better QB than Brees but you need to watch the video tape again regarding arm strength. One main point to look for with arm strength is to see when a QB is forced to throw with just or mostly his arm like on the run or fading back because of a guy in his face. Brees is VERY weak at this.

I've seen multiple throws by Brees this year (don't look before this year - the shoulder surgery changed him) and in the playoffs he has thrown solid passes, with zip and no arc, down the middle of the field and in stride to WRs and TEs.The entire game for Rivers vs. NE, he had a quick delivery but so what? If the ball is in the air for a while, DBs will close on the spot and receivers will be susceptible to getting drilled and/or the ball defensed (if not picked off).Brees has a better arm, and I don't see it any other way.I'll remain on fantasy island if need be, but Brees won a lot of games this year throwing some deep passes to Colston and Henderson and Copper. Hail Marys, skinny posts and deep outs, all worked well. We should get back to the discussion of Rivers, rather than Brees. I'll be watching and re-watching Brees' efforts, but I don't see anything that has made me even think about changing my opinion on just their arm strengths.

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts). I will have to agree to disagree about their arm strength.

 

[Despyzer]

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts).

Please enlighten me.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts).

Please enlighten me.

Video on Demand w/ NFL Network has 12-15 minute games after they are played. Right now on Comcast you can watch all four of last week's games in under an hour (although they cut some important plays like the Eagles losing 2 yards on 3rd and 1 inside the 5).

Also, DirecTV has "shortcuts" and replays every snap of a game in under 30 minutes on Tuesdays (the Sunday / DirecTV games).

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts). I will have to agree to disagree about their arm strength.

As much as I want to drop this....Since you bring up the replays, let's revisit last week.I'll make the case with one throw in particular for each, then back off slightly for both.Brees - Third Quarter, zips a nice pass to Billy Miller, 29 yards downfield. Ball never gets over 10 feet off the ground (ok, maybe 10 or 11). Nice delivery.Rivers - Second half, the crossing pattern to Gates. You remember it - Gates "should have turned upfield and maybe scored". Watch it again. Gates is WIDE OPEN with no one within 10 yards, yet he carries the ball 3-4 steps and then steps out of bounds. Why? The ball is late and wasn't zipped there (no timing throw, just step up and fire it was the correct style of throw), and it still led Gates too much. Gates had to gather it in and couldn't pivot and turn upfield. Had the ball been zipped there like it should have been, Gates catches it two steps prior (a good 5-10 yards in bounds) and turns up the sideline for a much bigger play.Now - to back off a little. Brees threw a number of high arc throws, but they were intended. The deep ball to Henderson wasn't a clothesline, nor was the Hail Mary. Still, when he was asked to throw down the middle or on a slant, he got it there in a timely fashion.Rivers - he does get the ball out quickly and does well to get it to his man on short and medium routes. His deep ball isn't that great (and his receivers are used to having to wait for the ball it seems).While I won't be comparing Brees to Elway's fastball any time soon, I'll take his arm over Rivers.

 

[DPRugby]

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts). I will have to agree to disagree about their arm strength.

As much as I want to drop this....Since you bring up the replays, let's revisit last week.I'll make the case with one throw in particular for each, then back off slightly for both.Brees - Third Quarter, zips a nice pass to Billy Miller, 29 yards downfield. Ball never gets over 10 feet off the ground (ok, maybe 10 or 11). Nice delivery.Rivers - Second half, the crossing pattern to Gates. You remember it - Gates "should have turned upfield and maybe scored". Watch it again. Gates is WIDE OPEN with no one within 10 yards, yet he carries the ball 3-4 steps and then steps out of bounds. Why? The ball is late and wasn't zipped there (no timing throw, just step up and fire it was the correct style of throw), and it still led Gates too much. Gates had to gather it in and couldn't pivot and turn upfield. Had the ball been zipped there like it should have been, Gates catches it two steps prior (a good 5-10 yards in bounds) and turns up the sideline for a much bigger play.Now - to back off a little. Brees threw a number of high arc throws, but they were intended. The deep ball to Henderson wasn't a clothesline, nor was the Hail Mary. Still, when he was asked to throw down the middle or on a slant, he got it there in a timely fashion.Rivers - he does get the ball out quickly and does well to get it to his man on short and medium routes. His deep ball isn't that great (and his receivers are used to having to wait for the ball it seems).While I won't be comparing Brees to Elway's fastball any time soon, I'll take his arm over Rivers.

That's one throw. I've seen every Charger game for the last 4+ years, and River's arm is stronger. You mention the toss to Gates and while that is an example of one of his floaters, go back and catch the game winning TD toss to Jackson against Seattle, the thing was on a rope 37 yards downfield.Rivers does have a wierd delivery, which even he admits to, kind of a 3/4 motion which he attributes to throwing a football at his fathers practices (father was a High School HC) when his hands were too small. That said, he may have been a bit over rated this season, I thought Brady would have made the Pro Bowl instead of Rivers. However, long term, I think Rivers is going to have a much better career than Brees and Rivers will end up being the Charger's best QB since Fouts.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts). I will have to agree to disagree about their arm strength.

As much as I want to drop this....Since you bring up the replays, let's revisit last week.I'll make the case with one throw in particular for each, then back off slightly for both.Brees - Third Quarter, zips a nice pass to Billy Miller, 29 yards downfield. Ball never gets over 10 feet off the ground (ok, maybe 10 or 11). Nice delivery.Rivers - Second half, the crossing pattern to Gates. You remember it - Gates "should have turned upfield and maybe scored". Watch it again. Gates is WIDE OPEN with no one within 10 yards, yet he carries the ball 3-4 steps and then steps out of bounds. Why? The ball is late and wasn't zipped there (no timing throw, just step up and fire it was the correct style of throw), and it still led Gates too much. Gates had to gather it in and couldn't pivot and turn upfield. Had the ball been zipped there like it should have been, Gates catches it two steps prior (a good 5-10 yards in bounds) and turns up the sideline for a much bigger play.Now - to back off a little. Brees threw a number of high arc throws, but they were intended. The deep ball to Henderson wasn't a clothesline, nor was the Hail Mary. Still, when he was asked to throw down the middle or on a slant, he got it there in a timely fashion.Rivers - he does get the ball out quickly and does well to get it to his man on short and medium routes. His deep ball isn't that great (and his receivers are used to having to wait for the ball it seems).While I won't be comparing Brees to Elway's fastball any time soon, I'll take his arm over Rivers.

That's one throw. I've seen every Charger game for the last 4+ years, and River's arm is stronger. You mention the toss to Gates and while that is an example of one of his floaters, go back and catch the game winning TD toss to Jackson against Seattle, the thing was on a rope 37 yards downfield.Rivers does have a wierd delivery, which even he admits to, kind of a 3/4 motion which he attributes to throwing a football at his fathers practices (father was a High School HC) when his hands were too small. That said, he may have been a bit over rated this season, I thought Brady would have made the Pro Bowl instead of Rivers. However, long term, I think Rivers is going to have a much better career than Brees and Rivers will end up being the Charger's best QB since Fouts.

I'll keep an openmind going forward if I see more video. My basis of judgment isn't as extensive as you say.Frankly, arm strength is an overrated measurement of a QB. It can save you if you force a throw, but otherwise touch and accuracy are far more important (as is ability to read coverage).

 

[Liquid Tension]

I watch a lot of Brees and watch more than 25% off all NFL plays (thank you shortcuts). I will have to agree to disagree about their arm strength.

As much as I want to drop this....Since you bring up the replays, let's revisit last week.I'll make the case with one throw in particular for each, then back off slightly for both.Brees - Third Quarter, zips a nice pass to Billy Miller, 29 yards downfield. Ball never gets over 10 feet off the ground (ok, maybe 10 or 11). Nice delivery.Rivers - Second half, the crossing pattern to Gates. You remember it - Gates "should have turned upfield and maybe scored". Watch it again. Gates is WIDE OPEN with no one within 10 yards, yet he carries the ball 3-4 steps and then steps out of bounds. Why? The ball is late and wasn't zipped there (no timing throw, just step up and fire it was the correct style of throw), and it still led Gates too much. Gates had to gather it in and couldn't pivot and turn upfield. Had the ball been zipped there like it should have been, Gates catches it two steps prior (a good 5-10 yards in bounds) and turns up the sideline for a much bigger play.Now - to back off a little. Brees threw a number of high arc throws, but they were intended. The deep ball to Henderson wasn't a clothesline, nor was the Hail Mary. Still, when he was asked to throw down the middle or on a slant, he got it there in a timely fashion.Rivers - he does get the ball out quickly and does well to get it to his man on short and medium routes. His deep ball isn't that great (and his receivers are used to having to wait for the ball it seems).While I won't be comparing Brees to Elway's fastball any time soon, I'll take his arm over Rivers.

That's one throw. I've seen every Charger game for the last 4+ years, and River's arm is stronger. You mention the toss to Gates and while that is an example of one of his floaters, go back and catch the game winning TD toss to Jackson against Seattle, the thing was on a rope 37 yards downfield.Rivers does have a wierd delivery, which even he admits to, kind of a 3/4 motion which he attributes to throwing a football at his fathers practices (father was a High School HC) when his hands were too small. That said, he may have been a bit over rated this season, I thought Brady would have made the Pro Bowl instead of Rivers. However, long term, I think Rivers is going to have a much better career than Brees and Rivers will end up being the Charger's best QB since Fouts.

I'll keep an openmind going forward if I see more video. My basis of judgment isn't as extensive as you say.Frankly, arm strength is an overrated measurement of a QB. It can save you if you force a throw, but otherwise touch and accuracy are far more important (as is ability to read coverage).

Jeff, thanks for your explanation. Take a look at the Vincent Jackson (what should have been a TD) pass. That was a great throw. The throw to Gates was a little soft but he also got rid of it quickly so the ball arrived at the spot about what a normal throw should have and Gates should have been looking to get up field rather than just catch it. Of course if he drops it I would say just catch the ball first and then get upfield...That was a Little weak of Gates. SD fans have had a lot of issue on Brees deep balls even when he was playing well. Nobody has had any concerns over Rivers arm strength. Brees is a better QB than Rivers right now (not even close) as he is extremely accurate and seems a great fit for a Peyton led offense. It will be interesting to see him play in some conditions today as a dome has no conditions to deal with.The verdict of being a good NFL QB is still out for me with Rivers. Teams make adjustments and I want to see how he does by the middle of next year to make my prediction. That being said, you can win a SB with Rivers right now and if his receivers wouldn;t have STUNK, he probably would have even though he is mediocre right now.

 

[UCLAGIE]

If the Chargers had only kept Brees we could have used the int fumble first down offense that the great Tom Brady has perfected.

Brees faces a decent defense for the first time in the postseason and unlike Rivers completely gives the game away.

Hang your hat on an safety caused by intentional grounding, a 55% completion percentage and two turnovers Rivers haters

 

[LHUCKS]

tap

 

[LHUCKS]

Totally a "Pro Bowler"...no doubt about it.

 

[Phlash]

Its all Norv Turner and Bill Belicheks fault.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Totally a "Pro Bowler"...no doubt about it.