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Is police brutality overstated or exaggerated by the Media? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
In the sense that the rate they report it makes it seem like it's far more common than in reality? Sure, but they know what sells. That goes for kidnappings, school shootings, car crashes, etc..
Insein
Footballguy
Police brutality exists and police officers do need to be held accountable when they go beyond their roles. If they would handle their business instead of covering it up, we wouldn't even be here.
However, the media is incentivised to exaggerate specific incidents for both ratings and to boost certain narratives that powerful donors make money off of.
However, the media is incentivised to exaggerate specific incidents for both ratings and to boost certain narratives that powerful donors make money off of.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Or are you asking if they are overstating it as in they are fudging or misrepresenting the stats when reporting?
The General
Footballguy
I’d like that they err on the side of overstating it.
rockaction
Footballguy
I went with no, though the cases the media picks are easy to sensationalize. You still haven't heard a peep about that white kid in Nebraska that got shot and killed with a bottle of lawn fertilizer in his hand. That would have sent shockwaves through the media if he had been black. And rightfully so. It was shockingly incompetent on the part of the officers.
Police need to be better and they need to be held to a high standard. They just did an expose in the Atlantic or the Intelligencer about L.A. cops forming their own street gangs. It was about the attorney that was dogging them, and how these guys were getting tatted up and hunting down youths in L.A. It was sickening.
Here's a pro tip: Never trust members of any organization that is unionized for honest, direct answers without independent oversight and verification of the facts. The unions run these departments and can't be counted on for spit. They are there simply to protect their own. And, anecdotally, I've known the biggest idiots in my high school becoming cops. And I mean bullies that get off on being bullies. The kid who played JV soccer as a junior that picked on and gave all the freshman painful weggies in high school? Cop. Of course. And I don't think I'm alone having stories like that. But my point is these guys often hide behind their badge and expect their badge to bring them trust with the public that can often extend into impunity for their actions. There's a fine line there, and we need to draw it better, because brutality needs to stop. We are all citizens, even as keepers.
One problem is the hiring and recruiting process. My brother got interviewed by the police department and they tested him for cognitive aptitude. They couldn't believe he wanted to be a cop and started asking what his angle was, whether he was in it for political purposes or to immediately become a detective, etc. Cops are sometimes noble, but the beat ones aren't necessarily really smart. We have to remember what pool they're pulling from in order to effectively oversee the police, given that they are granted wide latitude in their actions and the authority to do so.
Now, I've had a lot of great experiences with cops and few bad ones. A lot of great ones because I'm an idiot who does illegal things and gets caught and gets let go. But all it would have taken was one rogue cop, and my life would have been ended pronto. And those bad experiences with the police leave me with the chills. They can really #### your life up. I can't imagine what it's like to be a young black man in America with the looming specter of a biased law enforcement overseeing your freedom. No fun.
Police need to be better and they need to be held to a high standard. They just did an expose in the Atlantic or the Intelligencer about L.A. cops forming their own street gangs. It was about the attorney that was dogging them, and how these guys were getting tatted up and hunting down youths in L.A. It was sickening.
Here's a pro tip: Never trust members of any organization that is unionized for honest, direct answers without independent oversight and verification of the facts. The unions run these departments and can't be counted on for spit. They are there simply to protect their own. And, anecdotally, I've known the biggest idiots in my high school becoming cops. And I mean bullies that get off on being bullies. The kid who played JV soccer as a junior that picked on and gave all the freshman painful weggies in high school? Cop. Of course. And I don't think I'm alone having stories like that. But my point is these guys often hide behind their badge and expect their badge to bring them trust with the public that can often extend into impunity for their actions. There's a fine line there, and we need to draw it better, because brutality needs to stop. We are all citizens, even as keepers.
One problem is the hiring and recruiting process. My brother got interviewed by the police department and they tested him for cognitive aptitude. They couldn't believe he wanted to be a cop and started asking what his angle was, whether he was in it for political purposes or to immediately become a detective, etc. Cops are sometimes noble, but the beat ones aren't necessarily really smart. We have to remember what pool they're pulling from in order to effectively oversee the police, given that they are granted wide latitude in their actions and the authority to do so.
Now, I've had a lot of great experiences with cops and few bad ones. A lot of great ones because I'm an idiot who does illegal things and gets caught and gets let go. But all it would have taken was one rogue cop, and my life would have been ended pronto. And those bad experiences with the police leave me with the chills. They can really #### your life up. I can't imagine what it's like to be a young black man in America with the looming specter of a biased law enforcement overseeing your freedom. No fun.
Of course it's overstated. The statistics, especially when you start getting in to the race aspect of it, bear this out. All they ever do is report on individual incidents and never mention the actual stats. That being said, EVERY officer in this country should have a FUNCTIONAL body camera that is turned on for EVERY encounter with the public. If an incident occurs and there isn't audio/video evidence that officer better have a very good explanation or be subject to harsh discipline up to and including termination. Body cameras protect BOTH the officer and the people they are sworn to protect.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Why is his experience not reality as well?
I can say for a long time I was biased towards cops. I was in a small WI town with very few police. When I was growing up one (a relative of mine) handcuffed and shot a person and another was accused of raping and killing a local girl.
Of the couple in my HS that became cops one was a nice great guy, and one was definitely the more bullying type. That doesn't mean that people don't change over time (I don't know them now), just an observation. Not all people who are essential workers are upstanding people.
rockaction
Footballguy
Too bad. Two of my cousins are cops. One became a cop and said his biggest thrill was going to be when he "shoots somebody." The other is a model citizen and triathlete. I know them both fairly well.
I said it was anecdotal, meaning you should take it with a grain of salt.
HTH.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think you are overreacting a tad. He admitted it was anecdotal and his experience, and that he's had a lot of great encounters with cops, sheesh.
People have different experiences, and if all yours are with great people who are cops for the best intentions, I would fully get that we would have different starting points.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm deeply suspicious of any authority or profession where people have been shown to act illegally with impunity regularly. You should be, too.
Max Power
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
People who work in law enforcement and criminal justice teach their kids not to talk to the police without a lawyer present. I place a very large amount of weight on those people's experiences and professional judgement.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It doesn't technically count as police brutality, but police can and do commit straight-up highway robbery. It should go without saying that this is bad.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
It generates clicks like few other things, so of course blatant cases will get pushed.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
There is definitely is and always has been police brutality but cell phones and social media have changed the landscape in a dramatic way, both positive and negative.
The good is that police are more conscious of being on camera so I think that has had am impact on their behavior. It is also good that police processes and procedure can be reviewed and corrected where necessary.
The bad is that many cases where any type of force is used is posted online and reported by media. There is also a lot of cop baiting going on where people suspected of committing crimes are using their cameras and acting like entitled jerks knowing that if they don't cooperate with police or resist arrest they can use the video to portray the cop in a bad light.
The good is that police are more conscious of being on camera so I think that has had am impact on their behavior. It is also good that police processes and procedure can be reviewed and corrected where necessary.
The bad is that many cases where any type of force is used is posted online and reported by media. There is also a lot of cop baiting going on where people suspected of committing crimes are using their cameras and acting like entitled jerks knowing that if they don't cooperate with police or resist arrest they can use the video to portray the cop in a bad light.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
In the prior 12 months, as of 2018, among persons age 16 or older—
About 61.5 million residents had at least one contact with police.
Twenty-four percent of residents experienced contact with police, up from 21% in 2015.
Whites (26%) were more likely than blacks (21%), Hispanics (19%), or persons of other races (20%) to experience police contact.
There was no statistically significant difference in the percentage of whites (12%) and blacks (11%) who experienced police-initiated contact.
how many of those were reported as police brutality ? 100? 1000 ? what % ?
About 61.5 million residents had at least one contact with police.
Twenty-four percent of residents experienced contact with police, up from 21% in 2015.
Whites (26%) were more likely than blacks (21%), Hispanics (19%), or persons of other races (20%) to experience police contact.
There was no statistically significant difference in the percentage of whites (12%) and blacks (11%) who experienced police-initiated contact.
how many of those were reported as police brutality ? 100? 1000 ? what % ?
djmich
Footballguy
Its certainly sensationalized and we've seen evidence that it leads the average US citizen to create their own datapoints that are wildly different from reality. The same thing happened with COVID in terms of people understanding mortality rates.TripItUp said:
The one thing I've never seen the media do, is present data in factual, encompassing manner. Nobody wants to buy that I guess.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
"Selectively covered" by the media IMO.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Agree. It’s amazing how many people hang around and use their camera phone when they see the cops are engaged with someone.
-fish-
Footballguy
The question is really poorly phrased. There is exactly as much police brutality as is being documented. Police encounters in which an officer is polite and respectful are not being reported, since they aren't newsworthy.
Since nearly everyone has the ability to instantly record video of every encounter, of course we now have more documentation of inappropriate and even criminal action by the police. It's the same as it's always been, only now it is made public.
Media outlets report things that get people to watch. They aren't inventing police brutality; they're highlighting it.
If someone wanted to start a channel that just showed police brutality 24 hours a day, there would be plenty of footage and an audience that would watch it. That doesn't make it exaggerated or overstated. It just is what it is. I'm sure that the police would dislike it, and claim that it wasn't representative of most police. So what?
Since nearly everyone has the ability to instantly record video of every encounter, of course we now have more documentation of inappropriate and even criminal action by the police. It's the same as it's always been, only now it is made public.
Media outlets report things that get people to watch. They aren't inventing police brutality; they're highlighting it.
If someone wanted to start a channel that just showed police brutality 24 hours a day, there would be plenty of footage and an audience that would watch it. That doesn't make it exaggerated or overstated. It just is what it is. I'm sure that the police would dislike it, and claim that it wasn't representative of most police. So what?
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In Miami Beach, the city police union, which is very influential, convinced the mayor and comissioners to implement a 20-foot rule when the police are arresting or interrogating someone. It led to overly-aggressive behavior on multiple occasions. I witnessed one when a cop used his bicycle to initiate contact with a black woman who was just filming another black woman being arrested at about 20 feet away; she fell back and the cops cuffed her. This type of aggressive and legal behavior under the new law resulted in the mayor convincing the cops not to implement the new rule. Of course, costly lawsuits the city will have to settle, was a reason for the change.
In the link below are multiple cops on camera inside an Oceanfront hotel arresting a black man, putting him cuffed face-down, and then 3 of them kick him in the head multiple times, while about 10 other cops watch. Then they tackle another black man filming and arrest him for being too close. The 3 cops were not initially charged, then they were charged with misdemeanor battery, and then 2 months later felony battery. Even though the hotel video and video from the black man recording with his cell phone were available since day 1.
These 3 cops still have their jobs. Police unions in some cities are too powerful, with abuses of overtime, off-duty work, and more. At least with teacher unions, with video or text evidence, bad teachers are usually fired almost immediately with not much additional due process.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/3-miami-beach-officers-now-face-felony-charges-in-rough-arrest-at-hotel/2558114/
FairWarning
Footballguy
I know a Miami cop who posts on another board.
The good thing about the camera phones is the camera never lies. I would never condone actions like what happened here or in Minn, but the actions toward the police that has really changed also. A cop would be nuts not to use a body cam at all times.
-fish-
Footballguy
Hear this said all the time, and people keep making the point that the body cam is for the protection of the police as much as the public....but they sure get turned off a lot when someone turns up beaten.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Yeah there has been a couple in Mayor Pete’s town where that did happen, one involving a homeless man who was breaking into cars downtown. I wouldn’t pay them if the camera was off.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Well duh, there are roughly 200,000,000 more people interested in that one.The Z Machine said:
-fish-
Footballguy
cherry picked versus what?
when it happens, it is newsworthy. routine traffic stops are not. it's really a silly question.
matuski
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
Also if this were true, you would expect to see 2x news stories about white people shot by police versus black.
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In the pool of events which are news worthy, police shooting of a young black person would rank #1 as the most likely event which happens to an individual that would be widely reported. In that way, it is grossly exaggerates and causes a vast distortion of public perception to how often it actually occurs with respect to other tragic events. I have seen more than a few black mothers on TV saying how scared they are that their child will get shot by a cop walking to school. The reality is their child is thousands of times more likely to get shot by someone other than a cop walking to school.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
-fish-
Footballguy
as far as I can tell, you're the one that brought race into this. all police brutality is newsworthy. nothing in the original post mentions race.
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matuski
Footballguy
Fair.
And you brought newsworthy into it. If it happens, it is newsworthy right? So if race isn't relevant.... we would see 2 stories about police shooting white people for every one we see about a black victim.
Thank you for validating the premise. Cherry picking.
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The General
Footballguy
How Informed are Americans about Race and Policing?
A survey produced by Skeptic.com reveals that people who identify as liberal or very liberal believe 1,000 or more unarmed black men were murdered by police in 2019.
According to the Washington Post database, that number was 12. The Mapping Police Violence database says the number was 27.
The survey says among the very liberal, more than 50% believe American law enforcement killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. Nearly 8% of the very liberal respondents believe officers killed more than 10,000 unarmed black men in 2019.
About 39% of self-identified liberal respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. A little more than 5% of liberal respondents said that number was more than 10,000.
Some 26% of moderate respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019, with a little more than 3% saying the number was more than 10,000.
A little more than 13% of Conservative respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019, with 1% saying the number was more than 10,000.
Approximately 20% of Respondents self-identifying as very conservative said police killed 1,000 or more in 2019, with 4% saying the number was more than 10,000.
The correct number in terms of the multiple choice survey was "About 10." About 16% of very liberal respondents got it right, 22% of liberals, 34% of moderates, 46% of conservatives, and 46% of very conservatives.
The survey was part of Skeptic.com's "Civil Unrest and Presidential Election Study (CUPES)."
A total of 980 adults were polled for the study.
A survey produced by Skeptic.com reveals that people who identify as liberal or very liberal believe 1,000 or more unarmed black men were murdered by police in 2019.
According to the Washington Post database, that number was 12. The Mapping Police Violence database says the number was 27.
The survey says among the very liberal, more than 50% believe American law enforcement killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. Nearly 8% of the very liberal respondents believe officers killed more than 10,000 unarmed black men in 2019.
About 39% of self-identified liberal respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. A little more than 5% of liberal respondents said that number was more than 10,000.
Some 26% of moderate respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019, with a little more than 3% saying the number was more than 10,000.
A little more than 13% of Conservative respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019, with 1% saying the number was more than 10,000.
Approximately 20% of Respondents self-identifying as very conservative said police killed 1,000 or more in 2019, with 4% saying the number was more than 10,000.
The correct number in terms of the multiple choice survey was "About 10." About 16% of very liberal respondents got it right, 22% of liberals, 34% of moderates, 46% of conservatives, and 46% of very conservatives.
The survey was part of Skeptic.com's "Civil Unrest and Presidential Election Study (CUPES)."
A total of 980 adults were polled for the study.
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Context matters. The true numbers and true risk matter. Because when blacks believe cops will shoot them, they act as such. They run. They resist arrest. In their panic they are often unable to follow simple directions.
I’m curious to hear what the Liberals in here have to say on this.
I’m curious to hear what the Liberals in here have to say on this.
TripItUp
Footballguy
It appears the FFA liberals have the same misguided notions per the results of this poll...excellent post ek!
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I haven't seen anybody in here express the idea that 1000s of people are getting shot. The stats are talked about a lot.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Those findings were talked about before. I was shocked that people were saying 10k+, but it makes sense. A good link to rehash to keep perspective.
That said, a follow up would be a reminder that we are not talking about only fear of getting shot. Harassment, getting a gun pulled, getting roughed up also needs to be taken into consideration too.
FairWarning
Footballguy
rockaction said:
Certainly there is some truth to your assertion that police work draws more than their share of bullies and poorly educated people. Much in the same way teachers and preachers tend to attract more than their fair share of people who want to prey on children. My problem is the media is focusing on the wrong problem and painting police in such a light, where even fewer quality people will want to go into the policing line of work. As usual, whatever the left's intentions seem to be, they just make matter worse. Everything the left seems to be doing (media focus on racism by police, demanding defunding the police, not enforcing petty crimes, bail reforms) have only resulted in historic out-of-control increases in violent crimes and extremely low morale among and attrition in the police force. So now we will have to beef up policing and probably bring in worse people who were there originally.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/contacts-between-police-and-public-2018-statistical-tables
its not often for a police/citizen interaction to go wrong and in most of those cases, the citizens are escalating the situation and in police shootings a good percentage IIRC are armed with guns/knives etc
police shooting or killing totally innocent people are very very rare - Tulsa shooting a few years back of the black man on the interstate by a woman officer, the Minnesota shooting of the white lady by a black officer are two examples of interactions that seem to me totally out of line and murder
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that needs to change - show all the good things officers do, make the media show all that vs 24x7x365 negativity
it matters
Correlation does not mean causation. I don't think policies from the left are the biggest factor in increased crime and low police morale. Low morale was a big issue in 2018.
These survey results of police from 2018, 2019, 2020, & 2021 show a consistent pattern that respondents feel they aren't paid enough for their work, considering the stress. That's probably the biggest factor in morale. Pay in many police departments is low, but not in most big cities, such as NYC and even mid-sized well funded cities like Miami and Miami Beach where many retire in their 40s or 50s with nice pensions. In 2020, dealing with COVID had a negative impact on their morale. Finally, in 2021, respondents said treatment by the government & public negatively affected their morale. The police academy at our local community college is not suffering from low enrollment.
The survey from 2018:
"A staggering 44.8% said they worried about the state of their personal finances either every day or almost every day. And more than one in nine (11.8%) said they never or almost never had enough money to cover all of their essentials. This was up from 11% on the year before. The vast majority of respondents, 87.9%, did not feel fairly paid considering the stresses and strains of their job."
From 2020:
The 2020 survey revealed that, 86% of respondents said they did not feel fairly paid in relation to the stresses and strains of the job, 65% of respondents reported the COVID-19 crisis has had a negative impact on their morale and 76% felt unfairly paid for the risks & responsibilities of their job during the pandemic.
From 2021:
Of 29,587 officers who responded, 95% said their treatment by the Government had a negative impact on their morale.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Policies from the left is the biggest reason morale is down. It’s also the 2nd and 3rd reason. I would like to see them walk off the job for a day and let the social workers handle it.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
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