Is Voting 3rd Party A Wasted Vote? (1 Viewer)

[sn0mm1s]

I can plainly see that we will never have a meeting of the minds.  No worries, we don't have to.  I am well familiar with the theory that I am wasting my vote and that I do not perceive the virtues of the candidates or the parties correctly or objectively.  I am comfortable with folks in general and you as well thinking such of me.  Meanwhile I look at the political landscape and wonder.

That's all well and good - but my question still stands. What makes them equally evil - or so close they are interchangeable? People fall into the trap of "all politicians lie" and then create some sort of false equivalency. The Empire State Building and Mt. Everest are both tall but that doesn't really accurately describe their relative "tallness".

As far as the numbers go (without looking) I would suspect ~25-30% of the states lean so far in one direction that 3rd party voters likely wouldn't make a difference no matter how the rest of the independent vote plays out (assuming Rs and Ds vote for Rs and Ds and the majority of 3rd party voters are independent). However, in the other states, it wouldn't take much to swing a state one way or the other. Locally, we have been seeing this play out all throughout the nation in regards to democratic candidates. We are seeing gaps of 10,15,20+ points being closed. If such a wild swing is possible, voting 3rd party - nearly anywhere - is wasting a vote. 

OTOH, if you really think the US would be in nearly the exact same position as it is now if Clinton had beaten Trump...

 

[KarmaPolice]

That's all well and good - but my question still stands. What makes them equally evil - or so close they are interchangeable? People fall into the trap of "all politicians lie" and then create some sort of false equivalency. The Empire State Building and Mt. Everest are both tall but that doesn't really accurately describe their relative "tallness".

As far as the numbers go (without looking) I would suspect ~25-30% of the states lean so far in one direction that 3rd party voters likely wouldn't make a difference no matter how the rest of the independent vote plays out (assuming Rs and Ds vote for Rs and Ds and the majority of 3rd party voters are independent). However, in the other states, it wouldn't take much to swing a state one way or the other. Locally, we have been seeing this play out all throughout the nation in regards to democratic candidates. We are seeing gaps of 10,15,20+ points being closed. If such a wild swing is possible, voting 3rd party - nearly anywhere - is wasting a vote. 

OTOH, if you really think the US would be in nearly the exact same position as it is now if Clinton had beaten Trump...

Again, you are still seeing this in a R vs. D battle.  Many, many people are tired of that 2 party battle.  

 

[sn0mm1s]

Again, you are still seeing this in a R vs. D battle.  Many, many people are tired of that 2 party battle.  

Whether or not they are tired of it doesn't mean it isn't there. Denying reality and voting 3rd party is cutting off the nose to spite the face. 

 

[rockaction]

Whether or not they are tired of it doesn't mean it isn't there. Denying reality and voting 3rd party is cutting off the nose to spite the face. 

Bernie Sanders never happens if that's true.

I'm sorry, I can't get with this line of thinking at all. It's not just milquetoast, it's inaccurate. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

To me, this is a ridiculous topic, but I guess I'm not surprised its made it to 2 pages of content.  Here's the simple fact - none of us has any right whatsoever to tell another how to vote or whom to vote for.  Assuming an absence of election fraud (something I'm increasingly concerned with), there is no such thing as a wasted vote.  I suppose someone could say I wasted my time voting, but my vote itself always counts.  For what its worth, I've voted in every presidential election since 1984 and am certain I've never voted for a winning candidate at the Presidential level in my life.

I'm with you except I have voted in every presidential election going back to 1980.  I too have never voted for a winner.  Of course I never believed that I had, so there is that.

 

[Terminalxylem]

For one, it doesn’t reinforce broken 2-party duopoly.  People that don’t vote don’t give us bad presidents.  

They also are expressing their discontent for a process that doesn’t work for them anymore.  Some of them are expressing apathy, which isn’t great on the surface but certainly is not as bad as voting for corporations to run other people’s lives, which red/blue votes often are.

Voting by itself isn’t inherently good.  We shouldn’t pat ourselves on the back just for voting.  Sometimes it means giving your consent for other people to be ruled by evil.  It’s consenting to a system that can barely hide its contempt for us.  

Valid points, but I don’t see how any of that is valuable for the election process. Do you think abstainers are improving anything, other than perhaps a guilty conscience had they chosen the lesser of two evils instead? Does their non-vote move us closer to more palatable candidates or better government?

 

[Kal El]

Whether or not they are tired of it doesn't mean it isn't there. Denying reality and voting 3rd party is cutting off the nose to spite the face. 

It's time to change the system, then. The 2 party system is broken.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Whether or not they are tired of it doesn't mean it isn't there. Denying reality and voting 3rd party is cutting off the nose to spite the face. 

I don't think anybody is denying that it is currently there.  I just don't agree with you that is always has to be the case, nor should it.   Getting in line with your thinking and continuing to only vote for the 2 parties guarantees that it will always be the case though.    

 

[Navin Johnson]

Whether or not they are tired of it doesn't mean it isn't there. Denying reality and voting 3rd party is cutting off the nose to spite the face. 

Yeah, but I'm not cutting off my nose, I'm cutting off your nose to spite your face.  You already cut off mine by nominating a corporate puppet.