It is impossible to be too cynical about the NFL (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

There was a study that showed that taking into account the percentages of white people and black people in the US, you were still more likely to get shot by a police officer if you were white  

Armed? Unarmed? I would love to see that study. 

The WaPo database has some very interesting data on this issue.

2018 41 unarmed people were killed by police 20 white, 15 black, 4 Hispanic, 2 unknown

2017 69 unarmed, 31 white, 21 black, 13 Hispanic, 3 other, 1 unknown

2016 51 unarmed, 22 white, 19 black, 9 Hispanic, 1 other

2015 94 unarmed, 32 white, 38 black, 19 Hispanic, 5 other   

4 year total: 255 unarmed people shot and killed by police, 105 white (41.1%), 93 black (36.5%), 45 Hispanic (17.6%), 9 other (3.5%), 3 unknown (1.2%) 

This database is not 100% accurate because they acknowledge that it is difficult to find all the information but it is the most comprehensive resource out there and, again, considering there are about 197 million white people (~60%) and about 42 million black people (~14%) in America (about 52 million Hispanic, ~16.7%) the number of unarmed killings by police seems highly disproportionate.

 

[Interseptopus]

I would love to see that study. 

Go nuts

 

[zftcg]

No, I want to know how three people doing rails of coke were ever allowed to pilot an  airplane and what was being done to make sure that never happened again.

DV among athletes is lower most likely because the majority of them are smart enough to understand that they are public figures subject to a higher degree of scrutiny and held up to a higher standard. 

The NFL should be held to that higher standard as well but we give them a free pass and help them print money so it's on us not them. Given the ability to do whatever the #### you want with no repercussions most people would do exactly whatever the #### they wanted. The NFL does exactly that. 

Yeah, I sensed halfway through the post that the analogy was off a little, but I was too lazy to come up with something else.

How about the Catholic Church abuse scandals? Pedophilia is one of the most horrific crimes there is, but at a macro level, I wouldn't want the response to the scandal to be ruminations on the nature of pedophilia and its prevalence in our society. Such people have always existed, and sadly, they always will. I'd much rather spend my time talking about the shocking institutional failures of a Church that swept scandals under the rug, shuffled pedophile priests around, and basically demonstrated that it put its own reputation above the safety of its parishioners.

Foster and Hunt need to atone for their crimes, but I honestly couldn't give a s##t about them at this point (though I am concerned for their victims, of whom we've heard very little.) This whole debate about athletes and crime rates strikes me as not just boring, but a distraction from the real scandal.

 

[Stealthycat]

Racial injustice has been a front page, above the fold topic for two+ years now because of Kaepernick.

no it hasn't, no more than it was before

Kap set BACK the cause by his hate filled socks, hate filled tweets and his disrespectful kneeling Kap didn't shine the light on anything nor do anything to bridge the gaps that we face in this country.

 

[Stealthycat]

Gonna go stream of consciousness with this one because you covered a lot of ground.

-"A system that perpetually condones the killing of people, without consequence, doesn't need to be revised, it needs to be dismantled!" Colin Kaepernick on the "Slave Patrol" tweet. 

he's just dead wrong - the shootings are almost always justified - don't be a criminal, don't do things wrong and rarely is there a problem. YES, there are instances .... its exceptionally rare when everything is considered

-Do African Americans commit more crimes or are they accused of more crimes?  Born suspect.

answer your question - yes is the answer isn't it ?

-Police are sometimes charged, very rarely are they convicted. It looks like that may finally be changing.

this is true - and even so its VERY rare for an officer to not be justified in shooting the suspect - white or brown or black

-According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics 102 police officers died in the line of duty in 2015 and 127 in 2016.  Of those; 34 were homicides in 2015 and 51 were homicides in 2016. (Link to PDF)

-Civilians shot and killed by police by year: total (unarmed).  The Washington Post has an amazing searchable database that I strongly encourage people to view.

2015 - 995 (94), 2016 - 963 (51), 2017 987 (69), 2018 - 931 (41)

-Not killing people should be the standard for police.

and they don't shoot 99.9% of the time they interact with civilians ............ they use weapons when they absolutely have to with very very rare exceptions

-You say that we cannot know the motivations of people but then you presume to know the motivations of the same people in your last sentence.

if police were shooting left and right, there would be tens of thousands dead ........... they don't, exaggerations are common when discussing this topic

 

[Chaka]

It seems like you are just saying what you feel and not providing any actual evidence to support your feelings.

For example over the last four years 3867 people were shot and killed by police, 255 of those were of unarmed suspects. By throwing out 99.9% as your belief you are suggesting that not even one of those was unjustified.  That doesn't even come close to passing even the least degree of scrutiny.

Why do police have to be shooting killing "tens of thousands" for us to be concerned that of the 3,867 confirmed dead were not all justified?

 

[Dizzy]

So they said "He's not worth it because he's black"? and you have express memories of those conversations with the same people when Rogers, Ryan and Manning go their contracts?

More/less... yes. And some comments worse than those I shared but I am not printing them here.

Thing is, they don't think their comments are racist... they think they're either being funny or the good old, "I'm sorry, I hate to say it but it's the truth" routine. Having been born/raised/lived in a diverse neighborhood for most of my life I don't see these comments as either.

 

[Chaka]

no it hasn't, no more than it was before

Kap set BACK the cause by his hate filled socks, hate filled tweets and his disrespectful kneeling Kap didn't shine the light on anything nor do anything to bridge the gaps that we face in this country.

Do you honestly believe this?

It is difficult to imagine a scenario where people are still talking about Eric Garner, Philando Castile,  Tamir Rice, Freddy Gray etc. etc. etc. without Kaepernick being involved.  We certainly weren't talking about it to this degree before Kaepernick.

How would you suggest Kaepernick "bridge the gaps we face in this country"?

 

[Dizzy]

Racial injustice has been a front page, above the fold topic for two+ years now because of Kaepernick.  

I can't agree with this. CK's protest has been front page news, yes... exactly what he is protesting rarely gets discussed. The people most upset at CK taking a knee are those least interested in what it is he's protesting.

CK merely shedding fresh light on a hundred year old (and counting) problem in 'Merciuh.

 

[zftcg]

Not sure how many of you guys have spent time in the Politics Forum, but you're wasting your time sparring with SC. That's not even meant as a criticism of him; I just found him to have a worldview that is so different from mine that there was rarely anything to be gained from engaging. And next thing you know, a thread ostensibly about the NFL's tone-deaf response to Foster/Hunt has morphed into yet another Kaep thread with a high signal-to-noise ratio.

 

[Stealthycat]

Do you honestly believe this?

It is difficult to imagine a scenario where people are still talking about Eric Garner, Philando Castile,  Tamir Rice, Freddy Gray etc. etc. etc. without Kaepernick being involved.  We certainly weren't talking about it to this degree before Kaepernick.

How would you suggest Kaepernick "bridge the gaps we face in this country"?

its not me believing it - its the truth

I'd love to have seen Kap say hey, police are killing white people, black people, brown people .... and they have a hard job, but sometimes it seems they get it wrong, more than they should .............. we need to work together, everybody, and try to solve that and riots aint the way, piggy socks are not the way, calling people N words isn't the way, calling people slave patrol isn't the way, disrespecting the national anthem isn't the way, ..........woukldn't that have been something?  instead, you get BLM and rioting in the streets, and highway shutdowns and its all about cops killing black people ..... no mention of whites being killed, browns being killed etc huh ? we saw the police shootings in Dallas and LA in retaliation style justifications  .....

honest question - since Kap's kneeling have we all got better or worse ? I think the answer is worse

In the 49ers' final 2016 preseason game on September 1, 2016, after talking to Boyer, Kaepernick opted to kneel during the U.S. national anthem rather than sit as he did in their previous games

That's kinda when media starting to really get in on it

On July 17, 2014, Eric Garner

Dec 13, 2014 - Tens of thousands of protesters poured through the streets of Manhattan on Saturday in New York City's largest demonstration since a grand jury decided not to indict an NYPD officer in the death of Staten Island resident Eric Garner

November 22, 2014 Tamir Rice

Dec 30, 2015 - CLEVELAND — Activists gathered downtown Wednesday for a second evening of protests after a grand jury failed to indict the officer accused

On April 12, 2015 Freddie Gray

Aug 18, 2016 - Baltimore was roiled by weeks of tense protests after the April 19 death of Freddie Gray, a 25-year-old black man

 

[Stealthycat]

I just found him to have a worldview that is so different from mine that there was rarely anything to be gained from engaging. And next thing you know, a thread ostensibly about the NFL's tone-deaf response to Foster/Hunt has morphed into yet another Kaep thread with a high signal-to-noise ratio.

two things

yes, I have a different views BUT I try very hard to explain them - and from the other side people doing the same and maybe we can all learn something

second thing you're right, we've weaving away from NFL being responsible for covering abuse and violence and not being better ------ I'll stop contributing to that and go back to the original intent of the thread

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

The "study" posted above is very dumb and and you'll see alt-right dudes spam it whenever they're frothing about BLM.

https://www.theroot.com/black-harvard-professor-often-cited-to-discredit-black-1826292238

These threads can stay on the gross side of the board btw.

 

[Chaka]

its not me believing it - its the truth

I'd love to have seen Kap say hey, police are killing white people, black people, brown people .... and they have a hard job, but sometimes it seems they get it wrong, more than they should .............. we need to work together, everybody, and try to solve that and riots aint the way, piggy socks are not the way, calling people N words isn't the way, calling people slave patrol isn't the way, disrespecting the national anthem isn't the way, ..........woukldn't that have been something?  instead, you get BLM and rioting in the streets, and highway shutdowns and its all about cops killing black people ..... no mention of whites being killed, browns being killed etc huh ? we saw the police shootings in Dallas and LA in retaliation style justifications  .....

honest question - since Kap's kneeling have we all got better or worse ? I think the answer is worse

It isn't a binary proposition.  Kaepernick never singled out white police a distinction you seem to ignore.  It isn't about how many white, black, hispanic, other people are killed it's about the rate at which each group are killed by police. White people make up approximately 60% of the population but represent about 42% of unarmed people killed by police.  African Americans make up about 16% of the population but account for 38% of unarmed people killed by police. That's the issue.  You seem to care more about a pair of socks and a single tweet, because you continually use them to distract from the issue.

"...have we all got better or worse?" is about the most vague question I can imagine.  If I say better or worse does the responsibility or blame fall to Kaepernick in your mind?  Nothing else going on in America or the world that may contribute to that analysis?

And I wish more people would hold the Constitution above the Anthem or Flag considering it is the foundational document of our Country and it guarantees the freedom to observe the Anthem and Flag in a way of ones choosing.  Kneeling during the Anthem is no more disrespectful than not knowing the words like some other people (or a specific person) who may be contributing to the answer of your better or worse question.  But the guy who may not know the words (or the guy who didn't remove his hat in the football stadium which he owns) gets a pass from the people who want to castigate Kaepernick.  Hell, they are the people who castigate Kaepernick.

 

[Chaka]

Sorry everyone.  I completely forgot this thread is in the Shark Pool.

#nocollusion

 

[Stealthycat]

Chaka - I'll answer on the political forum Kap thread, k ?

 

[32 Counter Pass]

My Lord I hate conspiracy theories. It's hard enough for one person to keep a secret.

I agree with you but it defies explanation how the refs missed two ergergious calls in that Steelers game that went a long way towards the Bolts winning and keeping two division races alive. Let’s see how the Cowboy-Eagles game unfolds. 

 

[Chaka]

 Let’s see how the Cowboy-Eagles game unfolds. 

Let's not wait. Let's assume there is no conspiracy.

 

[rockaction]

Let's not wait. Let's assume there is no conspiracy.

Ted Donaghy and David Stern called. 

Look, I get the idiocy of conspiracy theories, but do you send 10,000 texts in a month to somebody (in this case Donaghy to another official) because you're friends with them? And then when Donaghy got pinched and tried to turn in the friend/fellow official, Stern refused to investigate this? That sounds bizarre.  

Also, Sacramento and Los Angeles called. 

https://youtu.be/MTBrb92ZbLc?t=61

These are billion dollar industries with billion dollar incentives. All the more reason to stay clean, but some people are just greedy.  

I just can't believe that the NFL had tapes of the Patriots videotaping plays and smashed the tapes. You think they'd archive them. 

These are unscrupulous people, Chaka, and they're not above a top-down directive or two.  

 

[Chaka]

.  

Also, Sacramento and Los Angeles called. 

https://youtu.be/MTBrb92ZbLc?t=61

And Donaghy wasn't a conspiracy.

 

[rockaction]

And Donaghy wasn't a conspiracy.

Okay, I get the Sac thing, but IIRC lot of sharps thought something stunk. I remember that game. I thought it stunk. I really think, at the very least, the league assigns certain crews with certain tendencies to make sure the team they want to advance advances. That's pretty common knowledge that even someone as mainstream as Bill Simmons espouses.

But Donaghy told Stern there were more people in on it. There were 10,000 texts in a month to his buddy official. Stern simply declared the investigation over and said there was no problem and that Donaghy was a lone wolf. My friend and I used to joke about texting each other 10,000 times in a month. That's the conspiracy I'm referring to. He simply shut it down unilaterally and without oversight. 

Stern was a bad dude.  

Sometimes when there's smoke, there's fire. See: 1919 Black Sox

I'm no truther, but the NFL has acted so bizarrely sometimes you can't do anything but shake your head and consider the thing rigged.  

 

[zftcg]

Okay, I get the Sac thing, but IIRC lot of sharps thought something stunk. I remember that game. I thought it stunk. I really think, at the very least, the league assigns certain crews with certain tendencies to make sure the team they want to advance advances. That's pretty common knowledge that even someone as mainstream as Bill Simmons espouses.

But Donaghy told Stern there were more people in on it. There were 10,000 texts in a month to his buddy official. Stern simply declared the investigation over and said there was no problem and that Donaghy was a lone wolf. My friend and I used to joke about texting each other 10,000 times in a month. That's the conspiracy I'm referring to. He simply shut it down unilaterally and without oversight. 

Stern was a bad dude.  

Sometimes when there's smoke, there's fire. See: 1919 Black Sox

I'm no truther, but the NFL has acted so bizarrely sometimes you can't do anything but shake your head and consider the thing rigged.  

It is true that I'm never quite sure what to believe with the NBA. Stern was a bit of an evil genius. (For the record, I'm a huge Simmons fan but he's also quite the conspiracy theorist. Hes' also endorsed the "frozen envelope" theory about the '84 Ewing lottery, the "Jordan's first retirement was a suspension for gambling" theory and the JFK assassination. He even said he wasn't totally sure about the moon landing. Not saying he's always wrong, just that his endorsement doesn't automatically equate to "mainstream".)

When it comes to the NFL, though, I'm skeptical of any conspiracy theories because, quite frankly, I don't think Goodell is smart enough to organize a three-year-old's birthday party, much less a top-secret conspiracy.

 

[rockaction]

When it comes to the NFL, though, I'm skeptical of any conspiracy theories because, quite frankly, I don't think Goodell is smart enough to organize a three-year-old's birthday party, much less a top-secret conspiracy.

It's okay, he'd confiscate all the smart phones and then smash them at headquarters. 

"Party went great!"

 

[rockaction]

As far as Simmons goes, I didn't know that. I guess the JFK assassination is forgivable, so is the moon landing since we've never gone back. I'm 99.999% sure events were as told.  

Trutherism is where I stop taking a person seriously. 

And Stern was indeed a cold, cold man and I'm not sure he wouldn't have done anything to protect the NBA's policy and his legacy. 

Goodell -- no legacy to protect.  

 

[zftcg]

It's okay, he'd confiscate all the smart phones and then smash them at headquarters. 

"Party went great!"

"If it went so well, why did I just walk by the playroom and see a room full of three-year-olds crying their eyes out? Also, you said you gave all the kids sippy cups, but I spoke to a bunch of parents and they said their kids didn't receive anything."

"Like I said, I'm always available to talk to the media." (Walks away and locks door shut behind him.)

 

[zftcg]

As far as Simmons goes, I didn't know that. I guess the JFK assassination is forgivable, so is the moon landing since we've never gone back. I'm 99.999% sure events were as told.  

Right on cue. 

 

[rockaction]

Right on cue.