Jamaal Charles, RB, Kansas City Chiefs (1 Viewer)

[Bayhawks]

In the Bowe thread people are bringing up strength of schedule as a reason Bowe has no shot to repeat his great year - do people think the SOS will effect Charlie's production?

In the offseason, SOS is not a very reliable tool. In THIS offseason, it is even less reliable. No mini-camps have been held, very few rookies have received playbooks, NO rookies have been able to work with their new coaching staffs, no FA's have been signed, etc. Trying to predict which defenses will be tough vs the run and/or the pass can not be done accurately.That being said, I've already posted in this thread that one could argue that KC (according to FBG's Ultimate SOS) is not expected to face a tougher schedule (for RBs, at least).From FBGs 8/5/2010 Ultimate SOS, the average expected fantasy points allowed by KC's opponents for the 2010 season was 17.9 PPG.From FBGs 5/2/2011 Ultimate SOS,the average expected fantasy points allowed by KC's opponents for the 2011 season is 19.0 PPG.That doesn't necessarily mean the schedule is going to be easier or harder this year. What it does mean is that while in hindsight, KC's 2010 schedule may have been easy, we may look back at the end of the 2011 season and say "KC had another easy run schedule, despite what the pre-season SOS looked like."

 

[Stinkin Ref]

In the Bowe thread people are bringing up strength of schedule as a reason Bowe has no shot to repeat his great year - do people think the SOS will effect Charlie's production?

In the offseason, SOS is not a very reliable tool. In THIS offseason, it is even less reliable. No mini-camps have been held, very few rookies have received playbooks, NO rookies have been able to work with their new coaching staffs, no FA's have been signed, etc. Trying to predict which defenses will be tough vs the run and/or the pass can not be done accurately.That being said, I've already posted in this thread that one could argue that KC (according to FBG's Ultimate SOS) is not expected to face a tougher schedule (for RBs, at least).From FBGs 8/5/2010 Ultimate SOS, the average expected fantasy points allowed by KC's opponents for the 2010 season was 17.9 PPG.From FBGs 5/2/2011 Ultimate SOS,the average expected fantasy points allowed by KC's opponents for the 2011 season is 19.0 PPG.That doesn't necessarily mean the schedule is going to be easier or harder this year. What it does mean is that while in hindsight, KC's 2010 schedule may have been easy, we may look back at the end of the 2011 season and say "KC had another easy run schedule, despite what the pre-season SOS looked like."

I will disagree...even though I agree with what you say in principle and do not usually let schedule dictate my drafting... this year will be the exception for me when it comes to the KC players...and I am a huge KC fan, saw almost every game last year.....there is sometimes a difference between saying "at this time of the year we won't know how defenses are going to play out, etc" and actually taking a realistic look...weeks 11-15at NE (Monday Night)vs PIT (Sunday Night)at CHIat NYJvs GB so at the end of your regular season (where some DH leagues have a DH week since byes are over) you get NE/PIT/CHI....then week 14 which is usually first week of many playoffs you are at the Jets and then lucky you, you get GB in the semifinal week....tough schedule for your 1st round pick (Charles) and/or maybe your second round pick (Bowe)....do you want Bowe on Revis island in your semi final week...?...Charles at the Jets...?..my point is....they are good to great players, but if you are in to win your head to head league, I think you have to take a look at that portion of the schedule and be a little realistic....those could very well be the top 5 defenses this year....Charles/Bowe, may help you get there, but do you really want to have to think about whether or not to start somebody else instead of your 1st or 2nd round pick when it comes to the most important time of the year...?...usually you want those guys to be "no brainer" starts, and maybe Charles still is, but I don't know about Bowe and I won't even talk about Cassel...and I think if you had some other solid options on your bench, you might have to think about it...I know I will probably get some grief over this, but for winning my fantasy league only purposes I bump the KC players down a notch because of this....do I think Charles is one of the top 4 backs in fantasy....you bet...but he may just not help me WIN a title....

 

[Bayhawks]

In the Bowe thread people are bringing up strength of schedule as a reason Bowe has no shot to repeat his great year - do people think the SOS will effect Charlie's production?

In the offseason, SOS is not a very reliable tool. In THIS offseason, it is even less reliable. No mini-camps have been held, very few rookies have received playbooks, NO rookies have been able to work with their new coaching staffs, no FA's have been signed, etc. Trying to predict which defenses will be tough vs the run and/or the pass can not be done accurately.That being said, I've already posted in this thread that one could argue that KC (according to FBG's Ultimate SOS) is not expected to face a tougher schedule (for RBs, at least).

From FBGs 8/5/2010 Ultimate SOS, the average expected fantasy points allowed by KC's opponents for the 2010 season was 17.9 PPG.

From FBGs 5/2/2011 Ultimate SOS,the average expected fantasy points allowed by KC's opponents for the 2011 season is 19.0 PPG.

That doesn't necessarily mean the schedule is going to be easier or harder this year. What it does mean is that while in hindsight, KC's 2010 schedule may have been easy, we may look back at the end of the 2011 season and say "KC had another easy run schedule, despite what the pre-season SOS looked like."

I will disagree...even though I agree with what you say in principle and do not usually let schedule dictate my drafting... this year will be the exception for me when it comes to the KC players...and I am a huge KC fan, saw almost every game last year.....there is sometimes a difference between saying "at this time of the year we won't know how defenses are going to play out, etc" and actually taking a realistic look...

weeks 11-15

at NE (Monday Night)

vs PIT (Sunday Night)

at CHI

at NYJ

vs GB

so at the end of your regular season (where some DH leagues have a DH week since byes are over) you get NE/PIT/CHI....then week 14 which is usually first week of many playoffs you are at the Jets and then lucky you, you get GB in the semifinal week....

tough schedule for your 1st round pick (Charles) and/or maybe your second round pick (Bowe)....do you want Bowe on Revis island in your semi final week...?...Charles at the Jets...?..

my point is....they are good to great players, but if you are in to win your head to head league, I think you have to take a look at that portion of the schedule and be a little realistic....those could very well be the top 5 defenses this year....Charles/Bowe, may help you get there, but do you really want to have to think about whether or not to start somebody else instead of your 1st or 2nd round pick when it comes to the most important time of the year...?...usually you want those guys to be "no brainer" starts, and maybe Charles still is, but I don't know about Bowe and I won't even talk about Cassel...and I think if you had some other solid options on your bench, you might have to think about it...

I know I will probably get some grief over this, but for winning my fantasy league only purposes I bump the KC players down a notch because of this....do I think Charles is one of the top 4 backs in fantasy....you bet...but he may just not help me WIN a title....

I'm not sure you understand my point. We haven't seen any of these teams yet. ANY SOS is being based off of last year's performance. Would I want my #1 RB to face some of the top run defenses during my FF playoffs? No, but we don't know who will be the top run defenses. NE was one of the worst against the run last year (FF speaking), while a few years ago they were one of the best. The Packers were one of the best against the run last year, while a few years ago they were one of the worst. Would I take a similarly ranked/projected player if his SOS looked easier? Yes, but I wouldn't take a lower-tier player just because he APPEARS (especially at this point in the off-season) to have an easier SOS.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....if you had Bowe, would you start him week 14....?...honestly you probably wouldn't....he doesn't step up to challenges very well and has no problem disappearing...and it sucks to have your second round pick sitting for you in crunch time.....part of this also comes from the fact that I think the production you saw from the entire KC team last year was the ceiling....completely inflated with that schedule....they really weren't that good....and I'm a diehard KC fan...I don't think they won a game last year that they shouldn't have (meaning stepping up and beating an opponent most thought they weren't good enough to beat)....

normally schedule should not make a difference on drafting a player, especially a top 5 pick....talent should always prevail right...?....well I don't play in leagues to draft the best team, I play to win, many times the "best" team doesn't win the title.....have seen it many times and had it happen happen to me, dominate all year, only to run into bad matchups in the playoffs....I think that part of the schedule while not making a difference on whether I draft the best team on paper or not, might make a difference whether or not I win my league title...the other thing is that I have watched most of the Chief games and I am not sure they are over the hump yet and ready to take the next step to challenge some of the teams that come along with a first place schedule and I think the fantasy stats will suffer accordingly...if it comes down to any of those top 5-6 backs, I bump them a little over Charles for those reasons....I will be happy to watch other guys take Charles/Bowe/Cassel and chase last years stats... and I hate saying that as a KC fan....

 

[T with T]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....if you had Bowe, would you start him week 14....?...honestly you probably wouldn't....he doesn't step up to challenges very well and has no problem disappearing...and it sucks to have your second round pick sitting for you in crunch time.....part of this also comes from the fact that I think the production you saw from the entire KC team last year was the ceiling....completely inflated with that schedule....they really weren't that good....and I'm a diehard KC fan...I don't think they won a game last year that they shouldn't have (meaning stepping up and beating an opponent most thought they weren't good enough to beat)....normally schedule should not make a difference on drafting a player, especially a top 5 pick....talent should always prevail right...?....well I don't play in leagues to draft the best team, I play to win, many times the "best" team doesn't win the title.....have seen it many times and had it happen happen to me, dominate all year, only to run into bad matchups in the playoffs....I think that part of the schedule while not making a difference on whether I draft the best team on paper or not, might make a difference whether or not I win my league title...the other thing is that I have watched most of the Chief games and I am not sure they are over the hump yet and ready to take the next step to challenge some of the teams that come along with a first place schedule and I think the fantasy stats will suffer accordingly...if it comes down to any of those top 5-6 backs, I bump them a little over Charles for those reasons....I will be happy to watch other guys take Charles/Bowe/Cassel and chase last years stats... and I hate saying that as a KC fan....

It seems like your only argument always comes back to BOWE.. this is a Jamaal charles thread and if you bump charles down the list for the reasons you mentioned you have issues son... How can you sit there and be worried about gb, nyj, chi, pitt when your talking about J. charles here pal... Did you see what he did to the Ravens in Baltimore last year... All them teams you mentioned are the absolute hardest teams on their schedule and none of them deter me from taking J. Charles and starting him Happily. I think you are overanalyzing things or just trying to get people to doubt JC or whatever the reason may be but you are off base bud, and Im sure I will get a ton of sharkers who will agree... Esp in a ppr league which I play in, he could catch 7 or 8 dump off passes vs the jets or pitt and only rush for 50 yards and still put up good numbers by adding a td or yaards rush/ rec/ catches... your argument is frugile at best and I would take JC 1.1 in a ppr league dynasty and not look back.

 

[bengalbuck]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....if you had Bowe, would you start him week 14....?...honestly you probably wouldn't....he doesn't step up to challenges very well and has no problem disappearing...and it sucks to have your second round pick sitting for you in crunch time.....part of this also comes from the fact that I think the production you saw from the entire KC team last year was the ceiling....completely inflated with that schedule....they really weren't that good....and I'm a diehard KC fan...I don't think they won a game last year that they shouldn't have (meaning stepping up and beating an opponent most thought they weren't good enough to beat)....normally schedule should not make a difference on drafting a player, especially a top 5 pick....talent should always prevail right...?....well I don't play in leagues to draft the best team, I play to win, many times the "best" team doesn't win the title.....have seen it many times and had it happen happen to me, dominate all year, only to run into bad matchups in the playoffs....I think that part of the schedule while not making a difference on whether I draft the best team on paper or not, might make a difference whether or not I win my league title...the other thing is that I have watched most of the Chief games and I am not sure they are over the hump yet and ready to take the next step to challenge some of the teams that come along with a first place schedule and I think the fantasy stats will suffer accordingly...if it comes down to any of those top 5-6 backs, I bump them a little over Charles for those reasons....I will be happy to watch other guys take Charles/Bowe/Cassel and chase last years stats... and I hate saying that as a KC fan....

It seems like your only argument always comes back to BOWE.. this is a Jamaal charles thread and if you bump charles down the list for the reasons you mentioned you have issues son... How can you sit there and be worried about gb, nyj, chi, pitt when your talking about J. charles here pal... Did you see what he did to the Ravens in Baltimore last year... All them teams you mentioned are the absolute hardest teams on their schedule and none of them deter me from taking J. Charles and starting him Happily. I think you are overanalyzing things or just trying to get people to doubt JC or whatever the reason may be but you are off base bud, and Im sure I will get a ton of sharkers who will agree... Esp in a ppr league which I play in, he could catch 7 or 8 dump off passes vs the jets or pitt and only rush for 50 yards and still put up good numbers by adding a td or yaards rush/ rec/ catches... your argument is frugile at best and I would take JC 1.1 in a ppr league dynasty and not look back.

What in the world does frugile mean?While I agree that dynasty you don't look at schedule, I think you absolutely have to in re-draft. Stinkinrefs makes some great points in this thread and I agree with him entirely. Don't draft a 2nd tier back over Charles due to schedule, but if you have the top 6 backs very closely (which I do), it makes a lot of sense to drop Charles to the bottom of that tier due to his playoff schedule.Some may say you can never judge a schedule in advance, but Rex Ryan and **** Lebeau put out great defenses nearly every single season. There is a high probability that the Jets and Steelers Ds will be very good again.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....

And last year you would have been saying the exact same thing, with just as much confidence, about the Minnesota, Baltimore, and San Francisco defenses.It happens every year.

 

[T with T]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....

And last year you would have been saying the exact same thing, with just as much confidence, about the Minnesota, Baltimore, and San Francisco defenses.It happens every year.

Exactly plus Rushing yards given up isn't the only thing that matters... what if charles had 15 for 60 and 1 td... plus he gets 6 catches for 50-60 yards... that would end up being a pretty darn good fantasy day even though the yards are lower.. plus no one can tell which defenses are gonna be good... Stop overanalyzing and just take the stud... Frugile, Who the heck cares what it means, My definition would be something like Petty, small. That is just what I think this whole discussion about schedule is.. Like the guy brought out a few posts back, Charles schedule is actually easier if you look at Points given up to RBs for fantasy football.. I think it was 17 to 19 or something like that... All Im saying is I would happily take J. Charles 1.1 in a ppr dynasty as Im sure most wouldn't think thats a stretch, as I see him go 1.1 lots of times. Just go look at the ppr draft start up results thread.

 

[chitlins3]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....

And last year you would have been saying the exact same thing, with just as much confidence, about the Minnesota, Baltimore, and San Francisco defenses.It happens every year.

Exactly plus Rushing yards given up isn't the only thing that matters... what if charles had 15 for 60 and 1 td... plus he gets 6 catches for 50-60 yards... that would end up being a pretty darn good fantasy day even though the yards are lower.. plus no one can tell which defenses are gonna be good... Stop overanalyzing and just take the stud... Frugile, Who the heck cares what it means, My definition would be something like Petty, small. That is just what I think this whole discussion about schedule is.. Like the guy brought out a few posts back, Charles schedule is actually easier if you look at Points given up to RBs for fantasy football.. I think it was 17 to 19 or something like that... All Im saying is I would happily take J. Charles 1.1 in a ppr dynasty as Im sure most wouldn't think thats a stretch, as I see him go 1.1 lots of times. Just go look at the ppr draft start up results thread.

1. Nobody bringing up Charles' schedule for 2011 is talking about where they would draft him in a dynasty start-up, they are talking about redraft. 2. What qualifies someone as a hater/troll in your mind when it comes to Charles - predicting less than 2200 combined yards? Less than 15TDs? Considering taking him between 1.4 and 1.6? You are continually bashing and insulting people in this thread whose predictions are just a tick off from yours.3. Why do you feel the need to insult anyone whose opinion is not 100% in line with yours?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Didn't Charles production take a noticeable hit once Weis no longer was calling the games last season? Who is calling the plays/personnel groups now?

 

[Garrett]

Huge Charles fan and multi-league owner, but considering only one RB in the last decade has put up 800 yards receiving (SJax, 2006) you might want to scale that one back a bit.

What RB since SJax have you seen catch and run the way Charles has? He averages over 10yds per catch, and with Jones phased out of the equation, Charles' rushes AND catches should increase.Yes, I know I'm putting him up for huge rec. numbers, but well... I don't see it as a problem for him.

I would argue that Darren McFadden is a more talented "catch and run" receiver out of the backfield than Charles. I think the two guys are very similar, and I sometimes wonder why Charles at his ADP is usually seen as a solid pick, while McFadden at a lower cost is seen as a huge gamble.Really weird statistical side note, in their first 3 seasons, both McFadden and Charles have totaled up exactly 1,037 receiving yards. McFadden doing so with less receptions/higher per catch.

 

[T with T]

bayhawks, I completely understand what you are saying and 99% I am on board....this one to me might be the only exception with those teams during that stretch...let's be honest, between now and the start of the season even if a few things change, those are probably 5 of the top 10 defenses in the league and some things (most notably probably Revis Island, PIT and GB D overall) aren't going to change much....

And last year you would have been saying the exact same thing, with just as much confidence, about the Minnesota, Baltimore, and San Francisco defenses.It happens every year.

Exactly plus Rushing yards given up isn't the only thing that matters... what if charles had 15 for 60 and 1 td... plus he gets 6 catches for 50-60 yards... that would end up being a pretty darn good fantasy day even though the yards are lower.. plus no one can tell which defenses are gonna be good... Stop overanalyzing and just take the stud... Frugile, Who the heck cares what it means, My definition would be something like Petty, small. That is just what I think this whole discussion about schedule is.. Like the guy brought out a few posts back, Charles schedule is actually easier if you look at Points given up to RBs for fantasy football.. I think it was 17 to 19 or something like that... All Im saying is I would happily take J. Charles 1.1 in a ppr dynasty as Im sure most wouldn't think thats a stretch, as I see him go 1.1 lots of times. Just go look at the ppr draft start up results thread.

1. Nobody bringing up Charles' schedule for 2011 is talking about where they would draft him in a dynasty start-up, they are talking about redraft. 2. What qualifies someone as a hater/troll in your mind when it comes to Charles - predicting less than 2200 combined yards? Less than 15TDs? Considering taking him between 1.4 and 1.6? You are continually bashing and insulting people in this thread whose predictions are just a tick off from yours.3. Why do you feel the need to insult anyone whose opinion is not 100% in line with yours?

First of chitlins How am I insulting anyone I am just stating facts. I wasn't calling anyone names or getting disrespectful, I was just showing that it's not a winning formula to study defenses from the past. Why are you trying to start more trouble, this is a Jamaal Charles thread not a session to call people out and argue. I don't care what you predict him to get and if you predict 1800 total yards and 9 tds I wouldn't call you a name, thats your perogative. Now that we got that out of the way, I have to get on to the Mcfadden/Charles debate. First of all Dmac is nowhere near as good of a runner as charles, plus Dmac runs straight up and has been hurt a ton. Charles hits the hole fast and is probably one of the best North South runners in the league, so even bringing up a guy like Mcfadden and comparison to Charles is Ludacris imo... we are talking about a 6.0 ypc career guy vs a guy who had one good year and 2 injury riddle years. How is he so close to back 2 back ypc leader and reception monster... He did more then any other back in the league with the alotted touches... He did more with less so to speak. Nobody can argue that fact. 1900 yards from scrimmage on 275 touches.... thats pretty amazing... 6.4 ypc PERIOD.

 

[BSanders2009]

I truly believe that, on skill alone, he could be the #1 fantasy back this season. When watching KC games, he's absolutely amazing when he touches that ball. His biggest limiting factor, however, is touches...nothing else. And those touches are dependent on how well Thomas Jones runs the ball inside and how much of a factor McCluster becomes in the passing game. On a per-touch basis, however, there is no better back fantasy-wise. Unfortunately, fantasy doesn't work on a per-touch basis.

 

[greggorymac]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

 

[Bayhawks]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

Why, because of the TWO total touchdowns he's scored in the last 2 seasons?

 

[Scooby1974]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

Why, because of the TWO total touchdowns he's scored in the last 2 seasons?

Did KC run with a FB last year? Are they going to use McClain in that roll this year? Seems to me that if McClain ISN'T running in a FB position that he will likely steal some touches from both Charles and Jones in short yardage situations.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

Why, because of the TWO total touchdowns he's scored in the last 2 seasons?

Did KC run with a FB last year? Are they going to use McClain in that roll this year? Seems to me that if McClain ISN'T running in a FB position that he will likely steal some touches from both Charles and Jones in short yardage situations.

Barely and Jones was really weak in 3rd and short, so that's my two cents.

 

[Bayhawks]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

Why, because of the TWO total touchdowns he's scored in the last 2 seasons?

Did KC run with a FB last year? Are they going to use McClain in that roll this year? Seems to me that if McClain ISN'T running in a FB position that he will likely steal some touches from both Charles and Jones in short yardage situations.

Is Charlie Weiss the OC in KC in 2011a? Has he EVER utilized a FB, regularly? Seems to me that instead of looking at this transaction from a 2010 viewpoint, you'd be better served looking at it according to the current circumstances. As OC in Ari in 2007 & 2008, Haley used a FB. In his first year in Ari, Haley used a FB (he brought one with him from Ari), although he was hurt that year. Weiss didn't utilize a FB, and he and Haley disagreed on many things, which is why Weiss left. It stands to reason that Haley would be inclined to re-install the things that he felt Weiss should have done (but didn't), and that could include the use of a FB.

 

[Grahamburn]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

Why, because of the TWO total touchdowns he's scored in the last 2 seasons?

Did KC sign McGahee?The KC front office and coaching staff showing us once again what they think Jamaal Charles can and can't handle.

 

[Bayhawks]

McClain signing just took 4-5 rushing TDs away from Jamaal.

Why, because of the TWO total touchdowns he's scored in the last 2 seasons?

Did KC sign McGahee?The KC front office and coaching staff showing us once again what they think Jamaal Charles can and can't handle.

No, but they already have T Jones. I think you can make the argument that McClain's situation hasn't changed all that much. Rice was the RB1, Charles is the RB1. McGahee was the back-up (and stole some TDs), Jones is the back-up (and steals some TDs), McClain was the FB, McClain is still the FB.You choose to assume that McClain's situation situation/role will be different, despite many signs that it will be the same, except for the color of the uniform he pulls on every Sunday. That is your prerogative, however, IMO you are mistaken.

ETA-The addition of McClain will impact any projected "additional" carries for Charles. If you were looking at Charles getting 275 carries, (IMO) it would be wise to scale that back to about 250 or so. Still a net increase over 2010, but although I believe McClain was added as a FB, he will get a handful of carries, which one might have projected for Charles previously.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'd say it's pretty obvious he was added to take some short yardage carries and play fullback. Short yardage carries several JC owners were hoping would go to him instead of LeRon McClain.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I'd say it's pretty obvious he was added to take some short yardage carries and play fullback. Short yardage carries several JC owners were hoping would go to him instead of LeRon McClain.

Wasn't McClain's complaint was that he didn't want to play fullback? My guess is that he was promised more than just a few carries.

 

[greggorymac]

Coach Todd Haley confirmed that FB Le'Ron McClain will not take any carries away from Jamaal Charles or Thomas Jones.

McClain has been outspoken in the past about his desire to carry the rock previously. But Haley made it very clear to McClain what his role is. "I'm a fullback, and I'm here to win. Two things. Just two things: Getting Jamaal Charles and Thomas Jones 1,000 (yards) apiece, that's what I'm here to do," McClain said.

 

[T with T]

In the Bowe thread people are bringing up strength of schedule as a reason Bowe has no shot to repeat his great year - do people think the SOS will effect Charlie's production?

Yes I think so, for some stupid reason.

 

[njherdfan]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.

270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs

35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

 

[T with T]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries. 270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.That part of the sentence you wrote right there makes no sense at all.. You doubt haley will let Charles accumulate carries yet you have him at 270 carries, 40 more then he had last year when he was a top 5 back.. You fail to explain how you have his YPC dipping from 6.4 to 4.1 all of a sudden. so your predicting over 400 less yards and 30 more touches... WOW sounds like we have a HATER in the Charles board... I can see you from here.

 

[T with T]

Last Time I checked JC was 24 not 34, that's the only time you would see a 2.3 ypc dip in one season bud.

 

[njherdfan]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.

270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs

35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.That part of the sentence you wrote right there makes no sense at all.. You doubt haley will let Charles accumulate carries yet you have him at 270 carries, 40 more then he had last year when he was a top 5 back.. You fail to explain how you have his YPC dipping from 6.4 to 4.1 all of a sudden. so your predicting over 400 less yards and 30 more touches... WOW sounds like we have a HATER in the Charles board... I can see you from here.

Not a hater at all. Like I said, I LOVE Charles' talent. I just think that the Chiefs will be a lot worse than they were last year and their overall offensive success will be reduced, which will really hurt Charles' numbers.

 

[T with T]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.

270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs

35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.That part of the sentence you wrote right there makes no sense at all.. You doubt haley will let Charles accumulate carries yet you have him at 270 carries, 40 more then he had last year when he was a top 5 back.. You fail to explain how you have his YPC dipping from 6.4 to 4.1 all of a sudden. so your predicting over 400 less yards and 30 more touches... WOW sounds like we have a HATER in the Charles board... I can see you from here.

Not a hater at all. Like I said, I LOVE Charles' talent. I just think that the Chiefs will be a lot worse than they were last year and their overall offensive success will be reduced, which will really hurt Charles' numbers.

ok so adding Baldwin, Breaston to the equation and a year older/more mature Charles and also a Real FB in mcclain and you think the chiefs will produce less??? I guess I don't get that logic seems pretty dumb to me, and as for Charles not getting Enough Carries I would take 300 touches from Charles any day and Call it a day and he would be top 5 in ppr or non ppr. Please take the babbling to another forum.

 

[Kree]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.

270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs

35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.That part of the sentence you wrote right there makes no sense at all.. You doubt haley will let Charles accumulate carries yet you have him at 270 carries, 40 more then he had last year when he was a top 5 back.. You fail to explain how you have his YPC dipping from 6.4 to 4.1 all of a sudden. so your predicting over 400 less yards and 30 more touches... WOW sounds like we have a HATER in the Charles board... I can see you from here.

Not a hater at all. Like I said, I LOVE Charles' talent. I just think that the Chiefs will be a lot worse than they were last year and their overall offensive success will be reduced, which will really hurt Charles' numbers.

ok so adding Baldwin, Breaston to the equation and a year older/more mature Charles and also a Real FB in mcclain and you think the chiefs will produce less??? I guess I don't get that logic seems pretty dumb to me, and as for Charles not getting Enough Carries I would take 300 touches from Charles any day and Call it a day and he would be top 5 in ppr or non ppr. Please take the babbling to another forum.

Some guy called Charlie Weis is out of the picture...

 

[njherdfan]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.

270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs

35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.That part of the sentence you wrote right there makes no sense at all.. You doubt haley will let Charles accumulate carries yet you have him at 270 carries, 40 more then he had last year when he was a top 5 back.. You fail to explain how you have his YPC dipping from 6.4 to 4.1 all of a sudden. so your predicting over 400 less yards and 30 more touches... WOW sounds like we have a HATER in the Charles board... I can see you from here.

Not a hater at all. Like I said, I LOVE Charles' talent. I just think that the Chiefs will be a lot worse than they were last year and their overall offensive success will be reduced, which will really hurt Charles' numbers.

ok so adding Baldwin, Breaston to the equation and a year older/more mature Charles and also a Real FB in mcclain and you think the chiefs will produce less??? I guess I don't get that logic seems pretty dumb to me, and as for Charles not getting Enough Carries I would take 300 touches from Charles any day and Call it a day and he would be top 5 in ppr or non ppr. Please take the babbling to another forum.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it, but you just acting as if Charles having a significant drop-off is impossible makes no sense. I'm sure you would have been just as dismissive if people predicted a down year for Chris Johnson last year. I'll list again the reasons I think the Chiefs will be much worse1. A much more difficult schedule

2. I don't see Matt Cassel having such a freakishly efficient season. I think his numbers will be much worse because a) I don't think he's that good and b) the absence of Charlie Weis will hurt him.

3. The Chiefs also released Brian Waters, their best run blocking OL last year.

You clearly won't respect any reasoning about why the Chiefs will be worse, which would hurt Charles' production, so I guess we will just wait until the season rolls around and see how JC does.

 

[Ilov80s]

The Chiefs ran to or tageted a pass to Charles on 28% of their offensive plays. As a point of reference: Chris Johnson 42%, Foster 40%, Rice 38%. Jamal Charles touched the ball 85 times less than Chris Johnson last year. Charles averaged 17 touches per game. So that equates to Jamal Charles having to play in 5 more games to match Johnson's touches. Just about 7 games to match Foster's # of touches. This tells me 2 things: Charles is destroying defenses and that there is a lot of room for him to still grow in that offense. If he were targeted 33% of the time, we could see his touches go up to 315. Charles is one of the few top tier RBs who has room to expand in the offense and for me that makes him a really good pick this year.

To account for his tougher schedule, I approximately dropped his yards per touch from 7 to 5.5. I increased his % of plays from 28% to 33%.

55 receptions 467 yards 1265 yards rushing 1732 total yards 8 TDs

 

[Smarge]

Haley doesn't want to run Charles into the ground, so I don't see a drastic increase in touches. They want to keep him fresh and explosive, which is when he's at his best. As a fantasy owner, be good with that approach. It's the explosive plays that jump his ypc. The beauty is that he can hit you for big plays whether the Chiefs are up or down, which dilutes the strength of schedule argument a bit. Chiefs lead and defense crowds the line....all he needs is a crease and he's gone. Chiefs trail and spread the field with receivers .... he hits you with 10-15 yard draws time and again.

 

[T with T]

I think Charles has a down-year this season. I love his talent, but I think the Chiefs' significantly more difficult schedule will reduce the amount of time the Chiefs are playing with the lead, and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.

270 carries 1120 yards 5 TDs

35 catches 435 yards 2 TDs

and I doubt that Haley will let Charles accumulate a ridiculous amount of carries.That part of the sentence you wrote right there makes no sense at all.. You doubt haley will let Charles accumulate carries yet you have him at 270 carries, 40 more then he had last year when he was a top 5 back.. You fail to explain how you have his YPC dipping from 6.4 to 4.1 all of a sudden. so your predicting over 400 less yards and 30 more touches... WOW sounds like we have a HATER in the Charles board... I can see you from here.

Not a hater at all. Like I said, I LOVE Charles' talent. I just think that the Chiefs will be a lot worse than they were last year and their overall offensive success will be reduced, which will really hurt Charles' numbers.

ok so adding Baldwin, Breaston to the equation and a year older/more mature Charles and also a Real FB in mcclain and you think the chiefs will produce less??? I guess I don't get that logic seems pretty dumb to me, and as for Charles not getting Enough Carries I would take 300 touches from Charles any day and Call it a day and he would be top 5 in ppr or non ppr. Please take the babbling to another forum.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it, but you just acting as if Charles having a significant drop-off is impossible makes no sense. I'm sure you would have been just as dismissive if people predicted a down year for Chris Johnson last year. I'll list again the reasons I think the Chiefs will be much worse1. A much more difficult schedule

2. I don't see Matt Cassel having such a freakishly efficient season. I think his numbers will be much worse because a) I don't think he's that good and b) the absence of Charlie Weis will hurt him.

3. The Chiefs also released Brian Waters, their best run blocking OL last year.

You clearly won't respect any reasoning about why the Chiefs will be worse, which would hurt Charles' production, so I guess we will just wait until the season rolls around and see how JC does.

Ok Im gonna just stop arguing with you even though them three reasons have no validity whatsoever... Charlie Weiss, haha you kidding me that guy isn't the reason Charles was good. Give me a break, Imo you are overanalyzing, but like you said we shall see. charles has lots of room to expand. He was not even the starter and was a top 5 fantasy back.. Just put that into perspective. Charles had 230 carries to Tjones 245. Do you think that is gonna happen again. Im not saying run Charles into the ground but 250-270 carries and 40-50 rec is not out of the question, with more goalline, and you have yourself a STUD number 1 rb with 290-320 touches, which is right where he should be. He had 275 touches last year and I think 50 more touches which would only be 3 more a game, would not be Like climbing MOUNT EVEREST or anything for him. You guys make it out like he had 4 carries a game at a 6.4 ypc. The guy almost had 300 touches and did it easily. get a grip geez.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

SI_PeterKing Peter King Chief Chat 2:TJones quicker, has lost 12 pounds ... Still job-split w/Jones, Jamaal. Sorry, Fantasians.

 

[Grahamburn]

SI_PeterKing Peter King Chief Chat 2:TJones quicker, has lost 12 pounds ... Still job-split w/Jones, Jamaal. Sorry, Fantasians.

Who knew? Jones still looked plenty quick in the preseason game against the Bucs Friday night.

 

[4 - Digit Shark]

Watching the Week 2 preseason game it appeared that Charles was coming off the field, in favor of D. McCluster, on all obvious passing plays. With Haley calling the shots, nothing would surprise me. Does anyone have any local info that suggests Charles could be taking a back seat to McCluster on passing downs. Maybe Haley will give him a few more carries at the expense of some chances in the passing game. I know that would be crazy, but this is Haley were talking about. Maybe it was only a 1 week thing, so I guess we'll see after next weeks game.

 

[Chimp Magnet]

Watching the Week 2 preseason game it appeared that Charles was coming off the field, in favor of D. McCluster, on all obvious passing plays. With Haley calling the shots, nothing would surprise me. Does anyone have any local info that suggests Charles could be taking a back seat to McCluster on passing downs. Maybe Haley will give him a few more carries at the expense of some chances in the passing game. I know that would be crazy, but this is Haley were talking about. Maybe it was only a 1 week thing, so I guess we'll see after next weeks game.

seriously? You're worried about Charles losing carries based on preseason games? He's protecting an investment for when the real games start. Ignore this.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

Watching the Week 2 preseason game it appeared that Charles was coming off the field, in favor of D. McCluster, on all obvious passing plays. With Haley calling the shots, nothing would surprise me. Does anyone have any local info that suggests Charles could be taking a back seat to McCluster on passing downs. Maybe Haley will give him a few more carries at the expense of some chances in the passing game. I know that would be crazy, but this is Haley were talking about. Maybe it was only a 1 week thing, so I guess we'll see after next weeks game.

seriously? You're worried about Charles losing carries based on preseason games? He's protecting an investment for when the real games start. Ignore this.

I have to agree here. McCluster has been a player in search of a role. They've tried him on special teams, as a WR and on gadget plays, and now as a RB. They can't seem to find a niche for him.

 

[Eastwood]

I have to agree here. McCluster has been a player in search of a role. They've tried him on special teams, as a WR and on gadget plays, and now as a RB. They can't seem to find a niche for him.

The crazy thing is McCluster looks good when he's in the game. I think that's why they keep trying to find a roll for him.

 

[Chimp Magnet]

I have to agree here. McCluster has been a player in search of a role. They've tried him on special teams, as a WR and on gadget plays, and now as a RB. They can't seem to find a niche for him.

The crazy thing is McCluster looks good when he's in the game. I think that's why they keep trying to find a roll for him.

Not saying they can't/won't find a role for him. But at the expense of one of the most explosive players in the league? Not seeing it. Although since Todd Haley was on the can at the moment god was handing out logic, it's a fair bet to think McCluster and McClain will lead the team in carries.

 

[4 - Digit Shark]

Watching the Week 2 preseason game it appeared that Charles was coming off the field, in favor of D. McCluster, on all obvious passing plays. With Haley calling the shots, nothing would surprise me. Does anyone have any local info that suggests Charles could be taking a back seat to McCluster on passing downs. Maybe Haley will give him a few more carries at the expense of some chances in the passing game. I know that would be crazy, but this is Haley were talking about. Maybe it was only a 1 week thing, so I guess we'll see after next weeks game.

seriously? You're worried about Charles losing carries based on preseason games? He's protecting an investment for when the real games start. Ignore this.

No, if you would read my post instead of shooting down the thought the way you did, you'd see I said maybe they are looking to lighten Charles' load in the passing game with McCluster, while giving him MORE carries.But you are right, this is crazy talk. I mean for a coach to sit Charles on passing downs for McCluster, he'd have to be stupid. Like as stupid as a coach that would give an aging RB 245 carries while that aging RB averages 3.7 ypc, all while he keeps a young RB to only 230 carries while averaging 6.4 ypc. Or a coach so stupid he'd keep listing the aging RB as the starter and the young RB as 2nd string. Surely no coaches in the league are that dumb...oh wait...

 

[Chimp Magnet]

Watching the Week 2 preseason game it appeared that Charles was coming off the field, in favor of D. McCluster, on all obvious passing plays. With Haley calling the shots, nothing would surprise me. Does anyone have any local info that suggests Charles could be taking a back seat to McCluster on passing downs. Maybe Haley will give him a few more carries at the expense of some chances in the passing game. I know that would be crazy, but this is Haley were talking about. Maybe it was only a 1 week thing, so I guess we'll see after next weeks game.

seriously? You're worried about Charles losing carries based on preseason games? He's protecting an investment for when the real games start. Ignore this.

No, if you would read my post instead of shooting down the thought the way you did, you'd see I said maybe they are looking to lighten Charles' load in the passing game with McCluster, while giving him MORE carries.But you are right, this is crazy talk. I mean for a coach to sit Charles on passing downs for McCluster, he'd have to be stupid. Like as stupid as a coach that would give an aging RB 245 carries while that aging RB averages 3.7 ypc, all while he keeps a young RB to only 230 carries while averaging 6.4 ypc. Or a coach so stupid he'd keep listing the aging RB as the starter and the young RB as 2nd string. Surely no coaches in the league are that dumb...oh wait...

Stupid like a fox!

 

[T with T]

He might be capable of 320+ touches, but projecting him for it isn't wise, IMO. I think there will be a lot of Jamaal Charles owners yelling at their TVs this season when Thomas Jones comes in on 3rd/4th and short.

Jones had more 1st down carries than Charles did (140 to 108) and Charles DVOA was 54.8 to -4.1 for Jones on 1st downs. Charles had more 3rd down carries (30 to 19) than Jones.

Thats ok as long as JC gets some goalline carries.

 

[T with T]

I think JC is listed as the starter.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

I think JC is listed as the starter.

nopehttp://www.kcchiefs.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

[Chimp Magnet]

I think JC is listed as the starter.

nopehttp://www.kcchiefs.com/team/depth-chart.html

Haley has already come out and said depth charts are worthless.

 

[T with T]

Jc will get the majority of carries. He had 230 last year and I would say 250-270 carries with 40-50 catches is about right. I just picked Charles 1.2 in a redraft ppr so Im putting my Money where my Mouth is. Afoster was 1.1 Charles was my next best guy

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Jc will get the majority of carries. He had 230 last year and I would say 250-270 carries with 40-50 catches is about right. I just picked Charles 1.2 in a redraft ppr so Im putting my Money where my Mouth is. Afoster was 1.1 Charles was my next best guy

CAn you link your league so we can follow along? Stikin Ref usally has some pretty good KC insight. I think he, like alot of us KC fans, have a little bit more of a reality about what the Kansas City Chiefs team really is at this point in time and that may distort our view on the production of the KC Offense fantasy-wide. I believe the Chiefs will be a better team this year but their record will be worse than it was last year. 8-8 would be a good record with this schedule. Believe what you want but after watching all the games last year, I just can't see the Chiefs running the ball all that well against that 5 game stretch. Can JC break a couple long ones in that stretch? Sure. I would not and will not use a pick in the first half of the draft on a could he though. I really, really hope everyone is right and I am wrong and JC goes for 2000 combined and 10 TD...

 

[Monsters of the Midway]

I was a Charles owner last year in a league that rewards big plays-he was great but could have been much better. He could have very easily had 5 more TDs with just a hair of luck.

He got tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line after long runs 4 times, and another at the 8 after a 47 yard run

J.Charles left end to BUF 1 for 18 yards M.Cassel pass short middle to 25-J.Charles to ARZ 1 for 25 yardJ.Charles left end pushed ob at ARZ 3 for 39 yardsJ.Charles left end to OAK 8 for 47 yardsJ.Charles up the middle to SL 2 for 80 yards
I don't thinking that I'm cherry picking runs. He had 3 other runs from inside the 10 to inside the 5. Everyone has a story about getting tackled in the red zone so I'm not counting those. He had another nullified by a penalty.

I found that interesting, you guys may not.

Personally, I think he will end up somewhere in the middle of his 2009 and 2010 production. 2009 was ridiculous in half a year (1100 yards and 8 TDs in his last 8 games but an unsustainable 184 touches).