Jared Cook's value in PPR dynasty leagues (1 Viewer)

[Truman]

You're willing to give up a first now for a guy you think will turn into Finley? You have Finley on your roster, why not just trade him? You know someone will overpay.

In the OP I'm mostly talking about those acquiring Cook, not selling him. I later mentioned a trade offer I made because I have a lot of TEs, but that's not the reason for this thread. I created this thread for the purpose of talking about Cook's dynasty value, and it is my opinion that he's a definite buy, even at a late 1st round pick before his value looks like Finley's does today. No one is going to get Finley today for a 1.12, not in a ppr or 1.5 ppr for te league. Obviously I'm going against the norm and it grates at the very soul of those who feel they have to buy either at face value, or more importantly at less than face value.

I don't see how it makes sense to sell Cook if you think his value is about to skyrocket. Not sure how that will happen either with him playing second string - as that becomes clear over the offseason look for his stock to drop further. At 1.08 I can probably get Jermaine Gresham, who is almost a lock to land in a better situation than Cook is in, playing behind a mediocre veteran on a run first team.

I never said it was a good idea to sell Cook, unless you're getting at least a late 1st rd rookie pick. Who's to say that Jermain Gresham will land in a good spot? Did Martellus Bennett land in a good spot? When you said Cook, "playing behind a mediocre veteran", well, you have to have more foresight than that in dynasty leagues. Finley was also playing behind Donald Lee this time last year.

The Packers didn't pay Lee $5 million to stick round another year because they were disappointed with how Finley was developing. That still doesn't change the fact that the Titans will never be a pass-heavy offense like the Titans are while Chris Johnson and Vince Young are on the roster.

 

[doowain]

Johnny U, didn't you pimp Cook last year and say he'd be the ROY and to bank on it, mark it down or say he'd be an utter beast last season? Isn't Bo Scaife still there? Why is this the year and last year wasn't the year? What has changed? I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't remember exactly what I said, or his time table, but it's not like I'm always right. We're all wrong from time to time. I still hold that Cook will be a stud. He was very good in the preseason last year then he got hurt. Those making statements like, "he hasn't done anything yet", are going to miss the boat on Cook in my opinion. He simply hasn't had his shot yet. Most here know this.

Why would they bring back Scaife? I'm not suggesting Cook won't be great, I'm just not sure why they would bring back Scaife if they were that confident that Cook is going to break out. IIRC Scaife will be paid almost $5 this year. Seems like they would want Scaife involved if they're paying him that, and how much production can we truly expect from Cook in that offense if he's splitting time with another TE?

I can already predict the response:"I'm not saying it's this year, just that eventually he'll be a stud. I have nothing to back this up. It's my gut feeling and you should pay me a 1st round pick for my gut feeling. Thanks."

 

[JohnnyU]

Johnny U, didn't you pimp Cook last year and say he'd be the ROY and to bank on it, mark it down or say he'd be an utter beast last season? Isn't Bo Scaife still there? Why is this the year and last year wasn't the year? What has changed? I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't remember exactly what I said, or his time table, but it's not like I'm always right. We're all wrong from time to time. I still hold that Cook will be a stud. He was very good in the preseason last year then he got hurt. Those making statements like, "he hasn't done anything yet", are going to miss the boat on Cook in my opinion. He simply hasn't had his shot yet. Most here know this.

Why would they bring back Scaife? I'm not suggesting Cook won't be great, I'm just not sure why they would bring back Scaife if they were that confident that Cook is going to break out. IIRC Scaife will be paid almost $5 this year. Seems like they would want Scaife involved if they're paying him that, and how much production can we truly expect from Cook in that offense if he's splitting time with another TE?

I think VY has something to do with this. Both he and Scaife were teammates at Texas and Scaife was his favorite target just a couple years ago. Cook will play Scaife to the bench before the 2010 season is over, barring injury of course.

 

[JohnnyU]

Johnny U, didn't you pimp Cook last year and say he'd be the ROY and to bank on it, mark it down or say he'd be an utter beast last season? Isn't Bo Scaife still there? Why is this the year and last year wasn't the year? What has changed? I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't remember exactly what I said, or his time table, but it's not like I'm always right. We're all wrong from time to time. I still hold that Cook will be a stud. He was very good in the preseason last year then he got hurt. Those making statements like, "he hasn't done anything yet", are going to miss the boat on Cook in my opinion. He simply hasn't had his shot yet. Most here know this.

Why would they bring back Scaife? I'm not suggesting Cook won't be great, I'm just not sure why they would bring back Scaife if they were that confident that Cook is going to break out. IIRC Scaife will be paid almost $5 this year. Seems like they would want Scaife involved if they're paying him that, and how much production can we truly expect from Cook in that offense if he's splitting time with another TE?

I can already predict the response:"I'm not saying it's this year, just that eventually he'll be a stud. I have nothing to back this up. It's my gut feeling and you should pay me a 1st round pick for my gut feeling. Thanks."

You really need to tone down the tool factor here. I'm being respectful to you and I expect the same.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Johnny U, didn't you pimp Cook last year and say he'd be the ROY and to bank on it, mark it down or say he'd be an utter beast last season? Isn't Bo Scaife still there? Why is this the year and last year wasn't the year? What has changed? I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't remember exactly what I said, or his time table, but it's not like I'm always right. We're all wrong from time to time. I still hold that Cook will be a stud. He was very good in the preseason last year then he got hurt. Those making statements like, "he hasn't done anything yet", are going to miss the boat on Cook in my opinion. He simply hasn't had his shot yet. Most here know this.

Why would they bring back Scaife? I'm not suggesting Cook won't be great, I'm just not sure why they would bring back Scaife if they were that confident that Cook is going to break out. IIRC Scaife will be paid almost $5 this year. Seems like they would want Scaife involved if they're paying him that, and how much production can we truly expect from Cook in that offense if he's splitting time with another TE?

I think VY has something to do with this. Both he and Scaife were teammates at Texas and Scaife was his favorite target just a couple years ago. Cook will play Scaife to the bench before the 2010 season is over, barring injury of course.

This my friends is known as Denial.

 

[ClownDogs]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

Finley is worth a top 3 rookie pick in a PPR league and more than that in a 1.5 PPR for TEs only league.

I own Finley in a couple 1.5ppr leagues and honeslty dont' think i would deal him for anything less than 1.01, and would even have to think about that. Stud TE's are hard to get in those leagues.

On the other hand, if i had Cook, i would sell him for a 1.12 in a 16 team IDP league. If i was buying, i wouldn't pay 1.12 for him.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Johnny U, didn't you pimp Cook last year and say he'd be the ROY and to bank on it, mark it down or say he'd be an utter beast last season? Isn't Bo Scaife still there? Why is this the year and last year wasn't the year? What has changed? I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't remember exactly what I said, or his time table, but it's not like I'm always right. We're all wrong from time to time. I still hold that Cook will be a stud. He was very good in the preseason last year then he got hurt. Those making statements like, "he hasn't done anything yet", are going to miss the boat on Cook in my opinion. He simply hasn't had his shot yet. Most here know this.

Why would they bring back Scaife? I'm not suggesting Cook won't be great, I'm just not sure why they would bring back Scaife if they were that confident that Cook is going to break out. IIRC Scaife will be paid almost $5 this year. Seems like they would want Scaife involved if they're paying him that, and how much production can we truly expect from Cook in that offense if he's splitting time with another TE?

I can already predict the response:"I'm not saying it's this year, just that eventually he'll be a stud. I have nothing to back this up. It's my gut feeling and you should pay me a 1st round pick for my gut feeling. Thanks."

You really need to tone down the tool factor here. I'm being respectful to you and I expect the same.

But this is the response, correct? It might have come off tool-ish (not to me, maybe to you) but it's true.

 

[JohnnyU]

This my friends is known as Denial.

It's just an opinion. I could be totally wrong about Cook and it wouldn't be the first time I've whiffed on a player. That's the fun in watching it develop. I guess I'm hoping I hit another home run like I did with Finley.

 

[Truman]

This my friends is known as Denial.

It's just an opinion. I could be totally wrong about Cook and it wouldn't be the first time I've whiffed on a player. That's the fun in watching it develop. I guess I'm hoping I hit another home run like I did with Finley.

No you're not, you're trying to boost his value so you can unload him.

 

[JohnnyU]

This my friends is known as Denial.

It's just an opinion. I could be totally wrong about Cook and it wouldn't be the first time I've whiffed on a player. That's the fun in watching it develop. I guess I'm hoping I hit another home run like I did with Finley.

No you're not, you're trying to boost his value so you can unload him.

No I'm not. I'm generating talk about a sleeper TE rather than starting another boring thread about Brett Favre, Chris Johnson, or Donavan McNabb.

 

[thriftyrocker]

JohnnyU,

In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which?

Winslow

Daniels

Cooley

Z Miller (OAK)

Olsen

Keller

H Miller

Carlson

Scheffler

Would you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

 

[FUBAR]

JohnnyU,In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which? Winslow DanielsCooleyZ Miller (OAK)OlsenKellerH MillerCarlsonSchefflerWould you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

KW, Daniels, the Millers and Cooley are worth a 1st. Keller, Carlson and Olsen might be. IMO, good TEs are the most undervalued asset in FF.

 

[ClownDogs]

JohnnyU,In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which? Winslow DanielsCooleyZ Miller (OAK)OlsenKellerH MillerCarlsonSchefflerWould you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

For me personally, all those guys are above Cook except Scheffler. I woudl trade 1.12 for any of them in a 1.5ppr league easily.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm in a lot of dynasty leagues. I know not one Cook owner who wouldn't ship him for a 1st round pick. As mentioned earlier, there are a bunch of highly talented TEs in this year's draft that will go in the 2nd round. The Titans look like they're bringing back Scaife, and it' s not an offense in which several players will flourish in the passing game. Britt will get his, then it's going to be a cluster of guys getting a few hundred yards each. It is highly unlikely Cook is going to be anything close to Finley in the foreseeable future -- it's not that kind of offense and it is not that kind of QB. Cook has great natural ability. He has shown little of it thus far and the fact that Scaife is coming back has to downgrade him further. I would give a mid-2nd rounder for him maybe, that's about as high as I would go. I would sell for the same depending on my needs.

FWIW, although I don't disagree with much you're saying here (IMO, Cook is 2 years away), I'd need a top 8 pick for him. Just me being a Titans fan though, I would trade him for Britt which I didn't think I would back in August.

 

[doowain]

I'm in a lot of dynasty leagues. I know not one Cook owner who wouldn't ship him for a 1st round pick. As mentioned earlier, there are a bunch of highly talented TEs in this year's draft that will go in the 2nd round. The Titans look like they're bringing back Scaife, and it' s not an offense in which several players will flourish in the passing game. Britt will get his, then it's going to be a cluster of guys getting a few hundred yards each. It is highly unlikely Cook is going to be anything close to Finley in the foreseeable future -- it's not that kind of offense and it is not that kind of QB. Cook has great natural ability. He has shown little of it thus far and the fact that Scaife is coming back has to downgrade him further. I would give a mid-2nd rounder for him maybe, that's about as high as I would go. I would sell for the same depending on my needs.

FWIW, although I don't disagree with much you're saying here (IMO, Cook is 2 years away), I'd need a top 8 pick for him. Just me being a Titans fan though, I would trade him for Britt which I didn't think I would back in August.

Saying what you'd have to be paid to move him is completely different from what the OP is stating. You are being rational (even if I disagree with your value of Cook). He is EXPECTING to be overpaid for Cook and is shopping him. Big difference.

 

[JohnnyU]

JohnnyU,

In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which?

Winslow - Yes if I needed a TE, but his history of injury is disturbing

Daniels - No, not after his ACL last year

Cooley - No, the surgically repaired ankle scares me away

Z Miller (OAK) - Yes, he's worth a late 1st rd pick

Olsen - No, he's overrated, drops passes, and another No if he's traded to the Pats

Keller - Unsure, his numbers declined after a promising rookie year

H Miller - No, I don't consider him an elite TE

Carlson - Not sure he's elite either, but he is very good. He's probably worth a late 1st, but I wouldn't give it.

Scheffler - No

Would you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

I'm surprised there isn't a poll. If there were and the answers were divided by half rounds, I'd guess that both early 2nd and late 2nd would get more votes than late 1st.

 

[thriftyrocker]

JohnnyU,

In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which?

Winslow - Yes if I needed a TE, but his history of injury is disturbing

Daniels - No, not after his ACL last year

Cooley - No, the surgically repaired ankle scares me away

Z Miller (OAK) - Yes, he's worth a late 1st rd pick

Olsen - No, he's overrated, drops passes, and another No if he's traded to the Pats

Keller - Unsure, his numbers declined after a promising rookie year

H Miller - No, I don't consider him an elite TE

Carlson - Not sure he's elite either, but he is very good. He's probably worth a late 1st, but I wouldn't give it.

Scheffler - No

Would you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

So clearly you value Cook higher than most TEs. Here's some counterarguments just for the sake of argument.Owen Daniels - Texans tendered him the maximum amount. That pretty much squelched any worries for me. I think the gamble he will be full strength in '11 is better than that everything will fall into place with Cook by '11.

Dustin Keller - Favre to Sanchize explains a lot about the performance drop. After the playoff stats he put up, I wouldn't trade him for a late 1st in my nonPPR where I already own Gates.

Heath Miller - Had 79 for 789 with 6 tds last year. Do you think Cook can beat those numbers with Vince at QB? Vince threw 10 TDs total last year.

 

[gianmarco]

I think Evan Moore is going to be a stud at TE. There's a thread here that talks about him: Evan Moore

I think he's worth a 1st round pick. Maybe not yet, but someday. I'll be sending out offers today to see if there's any proactive owners. If you don't agree with me, then you must buy into the Shark Pool mentality that you must buy low and sell high.

Who would you prefer? Evan Moore or Jared Cook?

 

[doowain]

JohnnyU,

In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which?

Winslow - Yes if I needed a TE, but his history of injury is disturbing

Daniels - No, not after his ACL last year

Cooley - No, the surgically repaired ankle scares me away

Z Miller (OAK) - Yes, he's worth a late 1st rd pick

Olsen - No, he's overrated, drops passes, and another No if he's traded to the Pats

Keller - Unsure, his numbers declined after a promising rookie year

H Miller - No, I don't consider him an elite TE

Carlson - Not sure he's elite either, but he is very good. He's probably worth a late 1st, but I wouldn't give it.

Scheffler - No

Would you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

So clearly you value Cook higher than most TEs. Here's some counterarguments just for the sake of argument.Owen Daniels - Texans tendered him the maximum amount. That pretty much squelched any worries for me. I think the gamble he will be full strength in '11 is better than that everything will fall into place with Cook by '11.

Dustin Keller - Favre to Sanchize explains a lot about the performance drop. After the playoff stats he put up, I wouldn't trade him for a late 1st in my nonPPR where I already own Gates.

Heath Miller - Had 79 for 789 with 6 tds last year. Do you think Cook can beat those numbers with Vince at QB? Vince threw 10 TDs total last year.

How dare you throw logic into this equation! This is a thread driven by gut feeling and being sour from a rejected trade. Stay on topic!

 

[doowain]

I think Evan Moore is going to be a stud at TE. There's a thread here that talks about him: Evan Moore

I think he's worth a 1st round pick. Maybe not yet, but someday. I'll be sending out offers today to see if there's any proactive owners. If you don't agree with me, then you must buy into the Shark Pool mentality that you must buy low and sell high.

Who would you prefer? Evan Moore or Jared Cook?

I just peed a little in my huggies.

 

[LBH]

I dont even agree that Cook is worth a mid 2nd. I dont make the rules of value, the masses do

 

[gorf]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

 

[gorf]

Nine times out of ten, owners value their own players more than other owners are willing to give in trade.

of course. that's probably why they acquired those players in the first place -- they valued them more than someone else did. of course, players' values change over time, so the real question ought to be how the value a player's owner places on that player compares to the value another owner places on the same player.

 

[MDSkinner]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

I believe the point you make here is a good point. And if a person does believe a player will end up being something better than they are, they should clearly buy now.However, the OP is admittedly trying to sell Cook (at least in one league). I think that point alone shows that he perhaps does not himself see the value of Cook ever ending up as high as Finley is right now. If he did, one would think that holding would be a better stand to take than trading. The goal of this post may well not be to drive up the price of Cook (or any other player that has potential) but given the fact that in this particular case the OP is actually trying to get rid of the player prior to what he believes will be his maximum value makes one feel that he may be trying to unload or at least try to divert the risk (which is massive) that Cook brings along with him to someone else. Not a bad thing to do, but it kind of makes the whole proactive vs reactive stance have less push behind it.

 

[ClownDogs]

The only thing that might be comparable between finley and cook is talent.

Better team for passing: Finley

Better QB: Finley by a mile

Lining up as WR alot: Finley

I dont' ever see Cook's value being anywhere near what Finley's currently is.

 

[JPeso]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

Prediction is fine. Asking for others to pay that is down right silly.

 

[GSWarriors]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

Prediction is fine. Asking for others to pay that is down right silly.

I dont think it's silly. If i'm high on Kenny Britt, and i think he'll be top-15/20 WR, i'm not selling him for anything less than that value. I'll rather keep him than truly UNDERSELL.

 

[gianmarco]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

Prediction is fine. Asking for others to pay that is down right silly.

I dont think it's silly. If i'm high on Kenny Britt, and i think he'll be top-15/20 WR, i'm not selling him for anything less than that value. I'll rather keep him than truly UNDERSELL.

No one is saying that you shouldn't. But, would you then imply that the other owner doesn't know what he's doing for not taking your asking price when it's clearly above current market value? There's no issue with JohnnyU asking for a 1st (and 2nd) for CookThere's an issue with insinuating that any owner that doesn't agree with HIS value of Cook is "reactive" and doesn't appreciate or comprehend what it's like to buy a player before he breaks out when that offer is rejected. So much that a thread was started about it including exact quotes from an email reply about said rejection.Big difference.

 

[GSWarriors]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

Prediction is fine. Asking for others to pay that is down right silly.

I dont think it's silly. If i'm high on Kenny Britt, and i think he'll be top-15/20 WR, i'm not selling him for anything less than that value. I'll rather keep him than truly UNDERSELL.

No one is saying that you shouldn't. But, would you then imply that the other owner doesn't know what he's doing for not taking your asking price when it's clearly above current market value? There's no issue with JohnnyU asking for a 1st (and 2nd) for CookThere's an issue with insinuating that any owner that doesn't agree with HIS value of Cook is "reactive" and doesn't appreciate or comprehend what it's like to buy a player before he breaks out when that offer is rejected. So much that a thread was started about it including exact quotes from an email reply about said rejection.

Big difference.

NO

 

[gianmarco]

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

Prediction is fine. Asking for others to pay that is down right silly.

I dont think it's silly. If i'm high on Kenny Britt, and i think he'll be top-15/20 WR, i'm not selling him for anything less than that value. I'll rather keep him than truly UNDERSELL.

No one is saying that you shouldn't. But, would you then imply that the other owner doesn't know what he's doing for not taking your asking price when it's clearly above current market value? There's no issue with JohnnyU asking for a 1st (and 2nd) for CookThere's an issue with insinuating that any owner that doesn't agree with HIS value of Cook is "reactive" and doesn't appreciate or comprehend what it's like to buy a player before he breaks out when that offer is rejected. So much that a thread was started about it including exact quotes from an email reply about said rejection.

Big difference.

NO

Exactly. Now go back and read post #3. Pay particular attention to the 2nd sentence.Post #4 has some more of the same.

 

[JohnnyU]

Well, Cook = Finley after all. What one will pay for Finley should be what one should pay for Cook.

i don't think that's what the OP is saying. his prediction is that cook will at some point be worth what finley is worth today. his suggestion seems to be that those who agree with him should try to acquire him, even if the price is more than the consensus view of cook's value. i don't think he's suggesting that people pay for cook what they would have to pay for finley -- he's saying the price will eventually get that high (in his opinion), so if you agree, you should buy now.

This is exactly what the OP intended. It was my mistake of clouding the orginal post by posting a trade offer I made because I have lots of good TEs in that league, including Clark, Finley, Cook, Bennett and Thomas. For the most part I have no intention of trading Cook, but like any player I'll listen to offers. The reason for this thread is clearly defined in the OP and by you.

 

[thriftyrocker]

JohnnyU,

In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which?

Winslow - Yes if I needed a TE, but his history of injury is disturbing

Daniels - No, not after his ACL last year

Cooley - No, the surgically repaired ankle scares me away

Z Miller (OAK) - Yes, he's worth a late 1st rd pick

Olsen - No, he's overrated, drops passes, and another No if he's traded to the Pats

Keller - Unsure, his numbers declined after a promising rookie year

H Miller - No, I don't consider him an elite TE

Carlson - Not sure he's elite either, but he is very good. He's probably worth a late 1st, but I wouldn't give it.

Scheffler - No

Would you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

So clearly you value Cook higher than most TEs. Here's some counterarguments just for the sake of argument.Owen Daniels - Texans tendered him the maximum amount. That pretty much squelched any worries for me. I think the gamble he will be full strength in '11 is better than that everything will fall into place with Cook by '11.

Dustin Keller - Favre to Sanchize explains a lot about the performance drop. After the playoff stats he put up, I wouldn't trade him for a late 1st in my nonPPR where I already own Gates.

Heath Miller - Had 79 for 789 with 6 tds last year. Do you think Cook can beat those numbers with Vince at QB? Vince threw 10 TDs total last year.

How dare you throw logic into this equation! This is a thread driven by gut feeling and being sour from a rejected trade. Stay on topic!

Al Bundy scored 4 TDs in one game for Polk High. Maybe he should be worth a late 1st.

 

[squistion]

I have reread all 3 pages of this and something doesn't sit quite right with me about the premise of this thread.

If you want to predict that Cook is the next Finley, OK.

And to say he is undervalued and is worth more than the going rate I can follow (but that is also true of about a half dozen developmental WRs I own).

But then to take it a step further and to suggest that people who won't pay your inflated asking price are not smart, seems a little self-serving.

To give an example, I own Chaz Schillens in every league I am in. I think he is worth a lot more than most people would give in trade. The fact that if I try to move him and no will pay above the going rate, probably means I am asking too much. To complain about it here would suggest that either I am trying to convince someone to pay my asking price or in the altenative to be able to bump this thread down the line with a "I told you dummies you could have had him cheap when I was trying to sell him, but you wouldn't listen to me!"

 

[JohnnyU]

I have reread all 3 pages of this and something doesn't sit quite right with me about the premise of this thread.

If you want to predict that Cook is the next Finley, OK.

And to say he is undervalued and is worth more than the going rate I can follow (but that is also true of about a half dozen developmental WRs I own).

But then to take it a step further and to suggest that people who won't pay your inflated asking price are not smart, seems a little self-serving.

To give an example, I own Chaz Schillens in every league I am in. I think he is worth a lot more than most people would give in trade. The fact that if I try to move him and no will pay above the going rate, probably means I am asking too much. To complain about it here would suggest that either I am trying to convince someone to pay my asking price or in the altenative to be able to bump this thread down the line with a "I told you dummies you could have had him cheap when I was trying to sell him, but you wouldn't listen to me!"

I never said whoever doesn't pay my asking price isn't smart. I said, "I think most Cook owners are too smart to trade him for a 2nd rd rookie pick". That's a vastly different statement. I also said that owners should consider trading for Cook now and not wait until he's worth what Finley is worth now. I never called anyone not smart for not doing this. I made a reference to proactive vs reactive, not smart vs dumb. So I would appreciate it if everyone would not go down that road again. I guess I've said all I can say about Cook. Now I'll just wait and see what shakes out by the end of 2010.

 

[identikit]

JohnnyU,

In a PPR dynasty, would you trade a late 1st for any of these guys? Which?

Winslow - Yes if I needed a TE, but his history of injury is disturbing

Daniels - No, not after his ACL last year

Cooley - No, the surgically repaired ankle scares me away

Z Miller (OAK) - Yes, he's worth a late 1st rd pick

Olsen - No, he's overrated, drops passes, and another No if he's traded to the Pats

Keller - Unsure, his numbers declined after a promising rookie year

H Miller - No, I don't consider him an elite TE

Carlson - Not sure he's elite either, but he is very good. He's probably worth a late 1st, but I wouldn't give it.

Scheffler - No

Would you ask more for Cook than ZMiller, Olsen, or Keller? All of those offer just as much upside, are coming off down years, and have more (or at least the same) reasons for optimism than Cook. Miller might play a whole year with a true NFL QB. Olsen might become 2nd or 3rd option for Brady. Keller had a TD every game in the playoffs.

So clearly you value Cook higher than most TEs. Here's some counterarguments just for the sake of argument.Owen Daniels - Texans tendered him the maximum amount. That pretty much squelched any worries for me. I think the gamble he will be full strength in '11 is better than that everything will fall into place with Cook by '11.

Dustin Keller - Favre to Sanchize explains a lot about the performance drop. After the playoff stats he put up, I wouldn't trade him for a late 1st in my nonPPR where I already own Gates.

Heath Miller - Had 79 for 789 with 6 tds last year. Do you think Cook can beat those numbers with Vince at QB? Vince threw 10 TDs total last year.

How dare you throw logic into this equation! This is a thread driven by gut feeling and being sour from a rejected trade. Stay on topic!

Al Bundy scored 4 TDs in one game for Polk High. Maybe he should be worth a late 1st.

I'm so on board with this.

 

[gianmarco]

I have reread all 3 pages of this and something doesn't sit quite right with me about the premise of this thread.If you want to predict that Cook is the next Finley, OK. And to say he is undervalued and is worth more than the going rate I can follow (but that is also true of about a half dozen developmental WRs I own). But then to take it a step further and to suggest that people who won't pay your inflated asking price are not smart, seems a little self-serving. To give an example, I own Chaz Schillens in every league I am in. I think he is worth a lot more than most people would give in trade. The fact that if I try to move him and no will pay above the going rate, probably means I am asking too much. To complain about it here would suggest that either I am trying to convince someone to pay my asking price or in the altenative to be able to bump this thread down the line with a "I told you dummies you could have had him cheap when I was trying to sell him, but you wouldn't listen to me!"

Pretty much spot-on. If this was simply a "Cook might be the next Finley" or "Cook is currently undervalued compared to his perceived market price", then it might be a good thread. But, even if he didn't come out and say it, it was suggested that not paying the inflated price is being reactive, or in other words, not being a "shark". You may want to say you didn't use the words "smart" or "dumb", but the implication that those not agreeing with your views on Cook are "reactive" carries the same connotation.As I stated above, what if I decided to start a thread on Evan Moore that he's undervalued and could be the next Finley just because you rejected my offer of a 1st/2nd round pick for him? What if I believe he's the next Finley and think everyone is behind the curve for not going out and acquiring him now before he breaks out? Is it right for me to suggest you're "reactive" instead of "proactive" because you don't share my viewpoint? Or could it be that you just don't agree he's the next Finley? Or even moreso, even if you DID believe he was the next Finley, just wouldn't be willing to pay that much for him now when his current market value is FAR below the 1st/2nd I was asking for?Your feelings on Cook or no more correct than my feelings for Moore and there's definitely not any "stats" to prove that Cook is more likely to break out. Luckily, I (and others) don't start a thread whenever I get a rejection from someone that doesn't share my same value on a player.It's a shame that the thread was started as it was and based on the fact you think you should get more for Cook. It would have been a good discussion if it was strictly on how good Cook can be and what can be expected. Maybe it's not too late to turn it into that.

 

[LBH]

I have reread all 3 pages of this and something doesn't sit quite right with me about the premise of this thread.If you want to predict that Cook is the next Finley, OK. And to say he is undervalued and is worth more than the going rate I can follow (but that is also true of about a half dozen developmental WRs I own). But then to take it a step further and to suggest that people who won't pay your inflated asking price are not smart, seems a little self-serving. To give an example, I own Chaz Schillens in every league I am in. I think he is worth a lot more than most people would give in trade. The fact that if I try to move him and no will pay above the going rate, probably means I am asking too much. To complain about it here would suggest that either I am trying to convince someone to pay my asking price or in the altenative to be able to bump this thread down the line with a "I told you dummies you could have had him cheap when I was trying to sell him, but you wouldn't listen to me!"

Luckily, I (and others) don't start a thread whenever I get a rejection from someone that doesn't share my same value on a player.

It would be quite a long list of gianmarco started threads if you did

 

[Truman]

Most owners are too smart to give up a first rounder for Jared Cook.

 

[identikit]

Some recent Cook info:

Heimerdinger calls out TE Jared Cook

Paul Kuharsky of ESPN.com reports Titans offensive Mike Heimerdinger called out TE Jared Cook this week, questioning his consistency.

“He needs to become much more consistent week to week if he’s going to play for us,” offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger said this week. “He has to be more consistent in everything before he can play.”

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription.aspx?EntryId=4475

 

[taylorj99]

I like the idea of grabbing guys with little value that are in good situations. I grabbed Finley in the last round of our draft last year and sat on him. That being said, I'm also in the corner of letting the water simmer before I get too excited. Sure, I'll overpay sometimes to get who I want, but more often than not, I'm happy with the risk/reward.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Here is one reaction I got on Cook. What this guy doesn't seem to know is that he probably can't buy Cook for a 1st by the time he's dwelling in Finley land."Sorry, I don't buy players at their projected worth. If I project him to be worth a future 1st and can get him for less then I'll do so. If he becomes worth a 1st and I want to get him, then I'll offer it up when he finally hits that value. If you want to keep him at that point, then so be it."

What you may not understand (although I'm sure you do) is that making a habit of buying players ahead of time but paying full price for the potential is a sure-fire recipe to fail. If you're right, you still paid almost full price by paying more than current value. If you're wrong, well you just overpaid for a guy that never realized his full potential. So, coming here and posting that someone is foolish for not subscribing to the above is like calling someone foolish for not being foolish. I understand you want to get maximum value for your pieces and if you can get another owner to subscribe to that and get what you want, congratulations. But don't start calling others out for not going along with inflated price.Owner A: "You'd be a fool to not take the deal I'm offering you. It's a GREAT DEAL!!"Owner B: "Then why are you offering it?"

Fantasy football isn't ALWAYS about buying low. Sometimes it's about getting the player, period. I win a lot and I don't always feel the need to buy low all the time. Yes, I still like to buy low like everyone else, but sometimes I go after what I want.

Now this is a Everyone is trying to find the next Finley. I just dont think that Cook is it. If I was holding say 1.11 I wouldnt trade it for Cook straight. If I wanted a TE i might just wait to see where this years good Crop of tes went. I like the talent the 2010 class has for TEs

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Johnny U, didn't you pimp Cook last year and say he'd be the ROY and to bank on it, mark it down or say he'd be an utter beast last season? Isn't Bo Scaife still there? Why is this the year and last year wasn't the year? What has changed? I'm not seeing it, sorry.

I don't remember exactly what I said, or his time table, but it's not like I'm always right. We're all wrong from time to time. I still hold that Cook will be a stud. He was very good in the preseason last year then he got hurt. Those making statements like, "he hasn't done anything yet", are going to miss the boat on Cook in my opinion. He simply hasn't had his shot yet. Most here know this.

Why would they bring back Scaife? I'm not suggesting Cook won't be great, I'm just not sure why they would bring back Scaife if they were that confident that Cook is going to break out. IIRC Scaife will be paid almost $5 this year. Seems like they would want Scaife involved if they're paying him that, and how much production can we truly expect from Cook in that offense if he's splitting time with another TE?

I think VY has something to do with this. Both he and Scaife were teammates at Texas and Scaife was his favorite target just a couple years ago. Cook will play Scaife to the bench before the 2010 season is over, barring injury of course.

So you think the team is letting Vince Young dictate personnel moves? The same Vince Young they nearly kicked to the curb before his resurgence? I realize that you are a fan of Cook, and I beleive in his talents as well, but your grasping at straws here to try and make your point.

 

[FUBAR]

Some recent Cook info:

Heimerdinger calls out TE Jared Cook

Paul Kuharsky of ESPN.com reports Titans offensive Mike Heimerdinger called out TE Jared Cook this week, questioning his consistency.

“He needs to become much more consistent week to week if he’s going to play for us,” offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger said this week. “He has to be more consistent in everything before he can play.”

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription.aspx?EntryId=4475

Makes me think he's talking more about blocking, but in any event this just leads credence to the thinking that Cook won't explode until 2011.

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

funny thread, and to think most of you are in leagues together.

Boy....this down time got us nippin at each others throats.....

Time for school to start back up so we all can be friends again.... LMAO

know how it is when your best friend comes to spend the week with you, 1st few days yall having a ball,

a few more days its cool....after that you ready for that mutha(*&amp(* to go back home.

this is what no football does to friends.....

 

[Multiple Scores]

I have reread all 3 pages of this and something doesn't sit quite right with me about the premise of this thread.

If you want to predict that Cook is the next Finley, OK.

And to say he is undervalued and is worth more than the going rate I can follow (but that is also true of about a half dozen developmental WRs I own).

But then to take it a step further and to suggest that people who won't pay your inflated asking price are not smart, seems a little self-serving.

To give an example, I own Chaz Schillens in every league I am in. I think he is worth a lot more than most people would give in trade. The fact that if I try to move him and no will pay above the going rate, probably means I am asking too much. To complain about it here would suggest that either I am trying to convince someone to pay my asking price or in the altenative to be able to bump this thread down the line with a "I told you dummies you could have had him cheap when I was trying to sell him, but you wouldn't listen to me!"

I never said whoever doesn't pay my asking price isn't smart. I said, "I think most Cook owners are too smart to trade him for a 2nd rd rookie pick". That's a vastly different statement. I also said that owners should consider trading for Cook now and not wait until he's worth what Finley is worth now. I never called anyone not smart for not doing this. I made a reference to proactive vs reactive, not smart vs dumb. So I would appreciate it if everyone would not go down that road again. I guess I've said all I can say about Cook. Now I'll just wait and see what shakes out by the end of 2010.

(Rotoworld) Titans second-year TE Jared Cook is reportedly struggling with consistency during Organized Team Activities.Analysis: Cook reportedly tends to flash in practices, but has too many drops. The No. 89 overall pick in last year's draft faces an uphill battle for regular snaps entering his second season. He's only a prospect for dynasty leagues.

Johnny U, your predictions and stubborn stance on Cook looks worse every day. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[JohnnyU]

I have reread all 3 pages of this and something doesn't sit quite right with me about the premise of this thread.

If you want to predict that Cook is the next Finley, OK.

And to say he is undervalued and is worth more than the going rate I can follow (but that is also true of about a half dozen developmental WRs I own).

But then to take it a step further and to suggest that people who won't pay your inflated asking price are not smart, seems a little self-serving.

To give an example, I own Chaz Schillens in every league I am in. I think he is worth a lot more than most people would give in trade. The fact that if I try to move him and no will pay above the going rate, probably means I am asking too much. To complain about it here would suggest that either I am trying to convince someone to pay my asking price or in the altenative to be able to bump this thread down the line with a "I told you dummies you could have had him cheap when I was trying to sell him, but you wouldn't listen to me!"

I never said whoever doesn't pay my asking price isn't smart. I said, "I think most Cook owners are too smart to trade him for a 2nd rd rookie pick". That's a vastly different statement. I also said that owners should consider trading for Cook now and not wait until he's worth what Finley is worth now. I never called anyone not smart for not doing this. I made a reference to proactive vs reactive, not smart vs dumb. So I would appreciate it if everyone would not go down that road again. I guess I've said all I can say about Cook. Now I'll just wait and see what shakes out by the end of 2010.

(Rotoworld) Titans second-year TE Jared Cook is reportedly struggling with consistency during Organized Team Activities.Analysis: Cook reportedly tends to flash in practices, but has too many drops. The No. 89 overall pick in last year's draft faces an uphill battle for regular snaps entering his second season. He's only a prospect for dynasty leagues.

Johnny U, your predictions and stubborn stance on Cook looks worse every day. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Retaliation for my comment to you in the Dez Bryant thread? Nice. By the way, the jury is still out on Cook. Labeling him a bust this early is foolish.

 

[Todem]

Strong hold.

 

[Toads]

We will see I guess. Yes, I'm over valuing Cook at the present, but we both know what I'm talking about

Oh No....another Jennings (like) thread.Hope you own these guys in every League your in.....somehow, I think your stuck with them, for better or worse, after announcing your fascinations publicly.Any other players you are high on, that aren't rostered yet?

 

[JohnnyU]

We will see I guess. Yes, I'm over valuing Cook at the present, but we both know what I'm talking about

Oh No....another Jennings (like) thread.Hope you own these guys in every League your in.....somehow, I think your stuck with them, for better or worse, after announcing your fascinations publicly.Any other players you are high on, that aren't rostered yet?

Sounds like you're trying to be snotty about this, but for your information, owning backup RBs like Jennings is mostly a cheap investment. No skin off my back if he never amounts to anything. I do think he's the backup to MJD, not Karim, who you are probably pimping. As far as Cook goes I own him in 3 of 8 dynasty leagues. I like him for the future, but again, I'm not heavily invested either way. Hope that helps.