Javon Walker or Marques Colston (1 Viewer)

[H.K.]

Upsides for Walker:

-- What about DEN rushing game finally being stabilized with a proven runner? Should help their team quite a bit to keep drives going.

-- What about a top ranked college gunslinging QB starting a full season? Sure, you said hes not proven. He showed unbelievable improvement from his first game and looked better every week. FWIW, Leinart isn't "proven", but we still have Fitz AND Boldin in stop 5 in most rankings.

-- Has broken 1000 yards more than once.

-- Ranked in the top 10 twice (including #2 in 2004)

-- Has gone an entire season injury free.

-- What about the proven system in DEN? Made QBs look great and WR1s look fantastic.

To simply ignore other ways to evaluate is laughable. When you "rank" with a very biased selection of questions, of course it will come out in "a landslide".

While I could skewer the rest of your opinions and conjecture with facts, I'll just go with this for now: Please validate Walker has been top 10 in PPR twice. (Important for all to know scoring systems make an impact when having these conversations.)

TIA

I was considering non-PPR league because of the data I had (footballguys). Non-ppr top 10 twice. ppr hit about 12th and 3rd. Doesn't change much.

Doesn't change much? Colston caught 70 balls in virtually 12 games played, and Walker has surpassed that number once in his career. It makes a huge difference in PPR. Do you play in any leagues using a PPR format?

 

[Chunky Soup]

Upsides for Walker:

-- What about DEN rushing game finally being stabilized with a proven runner? Should help their team quite a bit to keep drives going.

-- What about a top ranked college gunslinging QB starting a full season? Sure, you said hes not proven. He showed unbelievable improvement from his first game and looked better every week. FWIW, Leinart isn't "proven", but we still have Fitz AND Boldin in stop 5 in most rankings.

-- Has broken 1000 yards more than once.

-- Ranked in the top 10 twice (including #2 in 2004)

-- Has gone an entire season injury free.

-- What about the proven system in DEN? Made QBs look great and WR1s look fantastic.

To simply ignore other ways to evaluate is laughable. When you "rank" with a very biased selection of questions, of course it will come out in "a landslide".

While I could skewer the rest of your opinions and conjecture with facts, I'll just go with this for now: Please validate Walker has been top 10 in PPR twice. (Important for all to know scoring systems make an impact when having these conversations.)

TIA

I was considering non-PPR league because of the data I had (footballguys). Non-ppr top 10 twice. ppr hit about 12th and 3rd. Doesn't change much.

Doesn't change much? Colston caught 70 balls in virtually 12 games played, and Walker has surpassed that number once in his career. It makes a huge difference in PPR. Do you play in any leagues using a PPR format?

Yes I do. I was using it as a basis for comparison because I don't have PPR data in front of me. Thats all. It still stands that Walker has two top 12 performances including one #3 performance. Is that better?

 

[SSOG]

I always love that "but he had a pro bowl WR on the other side of the field!" line, as if it somehow lessens what he did.

Question- do you think having an ELITE secondary target is going to HELP your numbers, or HURT your numbers? I mean, sure, it loosens up coverages... but it also takes away a lot of balls that you otherwise would have gotten. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of Marvin Harrison's best seasons came in years where Reggie Wayne was a non-factor?

Harrison was the #1 WR overall last year in PPR and Wayne was #3. Your assessment and assertion are proven inaccurate by your own example.

Thank you for your support.

My claim was that all of Marvin Harrison's best years came before Wayne blossomed. He might have been the #1 WR last season, but in terms of fantasy points, it was his FIFTH BEST season. His first through fourth best seasons? 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002, in some order or another (depending on the scoring system)- in other words, before Reggie Wayne developed.Let me recap. Marvin Harrison's first through fourth best statistical seasons all came in the years BEFORE Reggie Wayne developed. The development of Reggie Wayne has had a negative impact on Marvin Harrison's numbers. We're not comparing Marvin Harrison vs. the rest of the league, we're comparing Marvin Harrison *WITH* Wayne to Marvin Harrison *WITHOUT* Wayne- and Marvin Harrison without Wayne wins in a collossal landslide. Marvin 1999-2002 averaged 236 points per season (non-PPR), 353 points per season (PPR), and had 100+ catches all 4 years. Marvin 2003-2006 averaged 181 points per season (non-PPR), 270 points per season (PPR), and didn't catch 100 balls a single time. That's about 75% the fantasy production once Reggie Wayne developed compared to what he was producing when he was the only man in town- and this is despite the fact that Peyton Manning was a DRASTICALLY better QB during the second 4 years than he was during the first (winning two MVPs, shattering all sorts of records).

Tell me again how this example proves my assertion inaccurate? I'd love to hear it.

Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7

- Advantage: Colston

As has been said several times, when Cutler came in, Denver started running a watered down version of its offense that doesn't really resemble anything it has run in the past 12 years. This (entirely coincidentally, I suppose), coincided perfectly with Denver starting its first rookie QB in the past 12 years. Anyone who thinks that Walker's numbers with Cutler at the helm last year are indicative of the type of offense Denver will run this season is DELUSIONAL, plain and simple. Denver has repeatedly affirmed a commitment to the deep passing game (which means Javon Walker), and their personnel moves (notably Pat Ramsey) clearly back up this commitment. All signs indicate that Javon Walker is going to be the focal point of the offense next season.While we're at it, though, let's compare Lee Evans' numbers with a rookie QB to his numbers with a veteran QB, and then take those rookie QB numbers and project them out through Evans' entire career, because there is no clear evidence to suggest that rookie QBs ever develop.

Colston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career

- Advantage: Colston

Anquan Boldin, after his first game, scored more points on a per-game basis than Jerry Rice ever did in his entire career. Logically speaking, Anquan Boldin is a much safer bet than Jerry Rice in his prime, because obviously small sample sizes are never an issue.

Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.

- Advantage: Colston

Laughable. Utterly laughable. To claim that there is no difference between a rookie making his first start ever and a sophomore who has had several NFL starts and a full year in the system is laughable. Absolutely laughable.Now, if you want to say that Walker will be playing with a worse QB than Colston, that I can buy (as it turns out, that's your next point). But claiming that Walker's QB is going to be the same this year as he was last year is a joke.

Walker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.

- Advantage: Colston

How is that an advantage to Colston? Walker was injured, but has proven since the injury that he is at full strength. Colston was injured, and returned from the injury a shadow of his former self. Walker has proven he's healthy and at full strength, while Colston has not.- Advantage: Walker

Colston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him.

Colston in a landslide, folks.

Colston also suffers from an abysmal sample size, has never shown that he can stay healthy or that he's fully recovered from his injury, and hasn't shown how he's going to react once he becomes the primary focus of coverages week-in and week-out.You also conveniently forgot to mention that Javon Walker switched teams last year, and despite a strong history of WRs struggling upon switching teams, Walker still had a phenominal season. Historically, WRs improve in year 2 with the same team, so I can't even FATHOM why you seem so resistant to the idea that Javon Walker will probably be better this year than last year.

Marques Colston is a riskier pick than Javon Walker, just like any WR with a single good season is a riskier pick than another WR with a history of good seasons. Claiming anything else is nothing but schtick, plain and simple. Of course, that's not surprising- if there's one thing that H.K. knows, it's schtick.

While I could skewer the rest of your opinions and conjecture with facts, I'll just go with this for now: Please validate Walker has been top 10 in PPR twice.

(Important for all to know scoring systems make an impact when having these conversations.)

TIA

Oh yeah, H.K., you're a bastion for fact-based analysis, including gems like "there is no possible way that Antonio Gates will be the #1 TE in the league".That is the most bull****, meaningless sentence ever. I hate when people say "Oh, well I *COULD* rip your arguement to shreds... but I'm not going to". Come on, if you could rip his arguement to shreds, I'd love to see you do so. In the meantime, that's nothing but so much noise.

 

[TheFanatic]

I always love that "but he had a pro bowl WR on the other side of the field!" line, as if it somehow lessens what he did.

Question- do you think having an ELITE secondary target is going to HELP your numbers, or HURT your numbers? I mean, sure, it loosens up coverages... but it also takes away a lot of balls that you otherwise would have gotten. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of Marvin Harrison's best seasons came in years where Reggie Wayne was a non-factor?

Harrison was the #1 WR overall last year in PPR and Wayne was #3. Your assessment and assertion are proven inaccurate by your own example.

Thank you for your support.

My claim was that all of Marvin Harrison's best years came before Wayne blossomed. He might have been the #1 WR last season, but in terms of fantasy points, it was his FIFTH BEST season. His first through fourth best seasons? 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002, in some order or another (depending on the scoring system)- in other words, before Reggie Wayne developed.Let me recap. Marvin Harrison's first through fourth best statistical seasons all came in the years BEFORE Reggie Wayne developed. The development of Reggie Wayne has had a negative impact on Marvin Harrison's numbers. We're not comparing Marvin Harrison vs. the rest of the league, we're comparing Marvin Harrison *WITH* Wayne to Marvin Harrison *WITHOUT* Wayne- and Marvin Harrison without Wayne wins in a collossal landslide. Marvin 1999-2002 averaged 236 points per season (non-PPR), 353 points per season (PPR), and had 100+ catches all 4 years. Marvin 2003-2006 averaged 181 points per season (non-PPR), 270 points per season (PPR), and didn't catch 100 balls a single time. That's about 75% the fantasy production once Reggie Wayne developed compared to what he was producing when he was the only man in town- and this is despite the fact that Peyton Manning was a DRASTICALLY better QB during the second 4 years than he was during the first (winning two MVPs, shattering all sorts of records).

Tell me again how this example proves my assertion inaccurate? I'd love to hear it.

Colston targets per game with Brees = 9.5, Walker targets with Cutler = 7

- Advantage: Colston

As has been said several times, when Cutler came in, Denver started running a watered down version of its offense that doesn't really resemble anything it has run in the past 12 years. This (entirely coincidentally, I suppose), coincided perfectly with Denver starting its first rookie QB in the past 12 years. Anyone who thinks that Walker's numbers with Cutler at the helm last year are indicative of the type of offense Denver will run this season is DELUSIONAL, plain and simple. Denver has repeatedly affirmed a commitment to the deep passing game (which means Javon Walker), and their personnel moves (notably Pat Ramsey) clearly back up this commitment. All signs indicate that Javon Walker is going to be the focal point of the offense next season.While we're at it, though, let's compare Lee Evans' numbers with a rookie QB to his numbers with a veteran QB, and then take those rookie QB numbers and project them out through Evans' entire career, because there is no clear evidence to suggest that rookie QBs ever develop.

Colston has performed better on a per game basis than Walker has in his entire career

- Advantage: Colston

Anquan Boldin, after his first game, scored more points on a per-game basis than Jerry Rice ever did in his entire career. Logically speaking, Anquan Boldin is a much safer bet than Jerry Rice in his prime, because obviously small sample sizes are never an issue.

Walker switched QB's and his stats nose-dived. He'll be with the same inexperienced QB next year.

- Advantage: Colston

Laughable. Utterly laughable. To claim that there is no difference between a rookie making his first start ever and a sophomore who has had several NFL starts and a full year in the system is laughable. Absolutely laughable.Now, if you want to say that Walker will be playing with a worse QB than Colston, that I can buy (as it turns out, that's your next point). But claiming that Walker's QB is going to be the same this year as he was last year is a joke.

Walker had surgery on his knee and missed 15 games, Colston hurt his ankle and missed three games but returned to play the same season.

- Advantage: Colston

How is that an advantage to Colston? Walker was injured, but has proven since the injury that he is at full strength. Colston was injured, and returned from the injury a shadow of his former self. Walker has proven he's healthy and at full strength, while Colston has not.- Advantage: Walker

Colston has a better QB that throws him the ball more often than Walker's lesser QB, Colston has performed at the highest level of production between the two WR's and Colston has not had the severity of injury Walker has suffered. Colston is also five years younger, this is a dynasty discussion, so that is another benefit for him.

Colston in a landslide, folks.

Colston also suffers from an abysmal sample size, has never shown that he can stay healthy or that he's fully recovered from his injury, and hasn't shown how he's going to react once he becomes the primary focus of coverages week-in and week-out.You also conveniently forgot to mention that Javon Walker switched teams last year, and despite a strong history of WRs struggling upon switching teams, Walker still had a phenominal season. Historically, WRs improve in year 2 with the same team, so I can't even FATHOM why you seem so resistant to the idea that Javon Walker will probably be better this year than last year.

Marques Colston is a riskier pick than Javon Walker, just like any WR with a single good season is a riskier pick than another WR with a history of good seasons. Claiming anything else is nothing but schtick, plain and simple. Of course, that's not surprising- if there's one thing that H.K. knows, it's schtick.

While I could skewer the rest of your opinions and conjecture with facts, I'll just go with this for now: Please validate Walker has been top 10 in PPR twice.

(Important for all to know scoring systems make an impact when having these conversations.)

TIA

Oh yeah, H.K., you're a bastion for fact-based analysis, including gems like "there is no possible way that Antonio Gates will be the #1 TE in the league".That is the most bull****, meaningless sentence ever. I hate when people say "Oh, well I *COULD* rip your arguement to shreds... but I'm not going to". Come on, if you could rip his arguement to shreds, I'd love to see you do so. In the meantime, that's nothing but so much noise.

 

[Pipes]

.... Colston is really tall and lanky, and who knows if he can handle the punishment of the NFL for a full season and stay healthy and productive. Randy Moss is the closest comparison to Colston from a purely physical standpoint ...

...

That's probably the best argument I've heard against Colston. Comparing him to Clayton was just not compelling but this is.

I wonder if they are bulking him up in the offseason. I remember every year how they would say Pinkston is bulking up in the offseason. He would come into camp up about 4 pounds and lose it the first two days of camp....

Good grief. When I see names like Randy Moss and Todd Pinkston in reference to Colston's size, it makes me wonder if some have even seen Colston. The kid is a big strong receiver who gets most of his looks on short and intermediate throws. Remember, NFL scouts were projecting him as a tight end.

Every time I watch Colston play, he comes off as very tall and lanky to me. The guy has surprising fluidity for his size, don't get me wrong, but every time I see him make contact I wonder if he can hold up. You know why he gets most of his looks on short and intermediate throws? Because of the seperation. Maybe the guy has really long legs or something, who knows, who cares, he gets open. I really have no proof that the Colston is going to get nicked up, but sometimes I catch myself cringing when he gets hit because of how tall and skinny he is.And if you want to compare Colston's physique to Roy Williams and Larry Fitzgerald be my guest. Personally, I think you are deluding yourself. Look at height and weight stats all you want, I personally will just eyeball the player and trust my intuition. You question if I've watched him play, yes I have. I watch every single game on replay.

--

And when I watch Javon Walker play, looks like a beast. This is the part where I explain why I think Walker is easily the more talented of the two. Size simply does not seem like an issue for Javon at all, because when matched up against DBs he looks BIG. He can overpower them for the ball for the most part. I just didn't see that from Colston last year and really you don't see that from too many WRs period. Generally if a WR is open he catches the ball, if he is not the he doesn't.

Pass off Walker's "one great year" due to Favre and Driver, but again I think you are deluding yourself. Walker made Favre that year, it's that simple. The year before that in 2003 his sophmore season, Walker brought back the deep threat attack attitude that was missed since Sterling Sharpe had retired. In 2004, Walker developed a short and intermediate game to go with that and developed into one of the best WRs in the NFL.

If you wanna check stats to back up my beliefs, check Favre's performance in 2004 versus his performance in 2005. Hell, check his 2003 stats and compare them to 2005. When Walker was healthy, starting in 2003 Favre would chuck it deep and Walker just made plays. He either caught the deep ball in coverage by beating one or several DBs, or he just outran the D. Driver couldn't do either of those things for Favre and that is why we saw a massive decline in TDs in 2005 and a massive increase in INTs. Favre lost had lost his playmaker. Personally, I think Walker is a more talented WR than the much hyped Chad Johnson, but again that is just personal opinion. The guy put up 1,200 yards and 9 TDs last year on a team that featured one of the worst QBs in the league for half the season, and then a rookie QB for the other half. Not even mentioning that this was his first year coming off an ACL injury AND that it was his first year playing for a new team under a completely different offense. I find this nothing short of amazing.

--

Now, I'm not saying that Colston can't do great things with his size and ability, but to discount Walker's one great season due to having Favre is ridiculous to me. The kid can ball. Bottomline, despite what is listed on the bios for height and weight numbers, players are built in different ways. Walker to me comes off as big playmaker. Colston comes off to me as a beanpole who knows how to get open. I mentioned this in my first post, but I want to repeat, Colston is in a MUCH better situation than Walker at the present, but I really like Walker from a long term talent perspective. I'm not trying to argue for or against Colston/Walker, just pointing out that I think Colston and not Walker has been the benefit of a great situation moreso than pure football talent. Colston hasn't proven to me with his play, that he will be a long term success in the league. Now if he had started off slow, had gotten injured, and then lit it up it might be a different story, but that didn't happen.

I don't care about Michael Clayton, Anquan Boldin, or Randy Moss when talking about Colston. All I'm concerned about is Colston's style of play, his physique, and his ability to come back from an injury. There are still question marks there. Walker proved to me this past season, that he can overcome injury, that he can overcome adversity, and a major change in situation, and that he can still ball.

In a redraft league I take Colston, and it's not even close.

Yeah I guess I'll trust your "eyeball" when taking about a players physique rather than go with the actual facts. Colston's built as well as most WR's. Honestly I'm just not sure what you're seeing and I've heard alot of Marques Colston skeptics and not one has mentioned his physique or in your opinion, a lack there of.Look I certainly understand the arguement that he's only really played 12 games so it's hard to gauge how good he can really be. That arguement makes sense. To say you worry about his physique is just plain silly.

 

[Driver]

2) For starters, Harrison has finished 5th, 8th & 1st in PPR scoring the past three years and you put him in tier three with Walker? That alone tells me our rankings would be completely different ....

I think Harrison and Alexander are two interesting cases when trying to determine player value in a dynasty format. I personally have them both ranked much lower than their ADP (and substantially below most other rankings).As noted above, "Harrison has finished 5th, 8th & 1st in PPR scoring the past three years." However, although very valuable information, using past performance to determine future value is hazardous -- especially when projecting 3-5 years into the future, as required for dynasty purposes.Stated another way, with established players, I think there’s a serious problem with assigning value according to “actual past performance” rather than “expected future performance.” This includes the “one-year memory problem” but it is broader and more serious than that in a dynasty format. I’m basically referring to established players who are likely to be overvalued in this year’s dynasty drafts.A key example is the older player after their prime, with dynasty owners unwilling to believe that studs or solid players have severely limited future performance and dynasty value. Every year, there are players who had performed at high levels for several years but were definitely past the point where most players at their position lose effectiveness, and their production plunges. There’s a decent chance that this year’s examples will include Edge, Fred Taylor and/or Ahman Green, but may include Shaun Alexander or even Marvin Harrison. And even if these players have a good 2007, what are the chances that they will have a good 2008 or 2009? The odds of continued success drop quickly year by year.If viewed objectively using historical data, there are other categories where “expected future performance” may be significantly less than “actual past performance.” Examples include (1) players coming off a career year, (2) players changing teams where the new team is a worse situation than the old team, (3) players who have lost a good or excellent OC (or having to deal with a new poor OC, or new head coach), (4) 2nd year players who had a decent (or good or excellent) rookie year but may be facing a sophomore slump (for want of a better term), and (5) established QBs who lost a stud WR (or vice versa). Every player in one of these 5 categories will not post lower results next season, but a lot of them will from a probability perspective. ADPs for these types of players are not likely to drop much, but many of these players will be hard-pressed to perform at a high level that will justify their draft position (one definition of a player being overvalued).OTOH, I think many persons overvalue youth and potential for dynasty purposes. If a player is young and has “undemonstrated potential” (no proven track record), his perceived dynasty value (ADP or trade value) is usually substantially above his value for redraft purposes (and also his true dynasty value). Although many of these players will turn out to be successful, the problem consists of the “success rate” for these types of players. If you grouped all of these players together and tracked the group over the next 4-5 years, I’m pretty sure that the group as a whole would not fulfill their ADP or perceived trade value (because there would be so many busts and underperformers compared to the number of studs and solid performers) -- although I don't have any data to back-up that assertion.The other side of the coin is that it is equally important to identify players who tend to be consistently undervalued for dynasty purposes. Anyway, I don’t know how to quantify this so that it can be incorporated into “valuation of players for dynasty purposes.” Or maybe I’m just blowing this factor out of proportion. But I really think many players are substantially “overvalued” and others are “undervalued” (for dynasty purposes), and trying to develop a method for “accurate valuation” means that these types of problems need to be addressed and taken into account.

 

[Sidewinder]

A one-to-one comparison that probably means little, but I find pretty interesting in their relative similarities:

Colston pre-injury:

*9 games - 54 receptions - 751 yards - 6 TDs

Per gm avg: 6.0 rec - 83.4 yds - 0.67 TDs

*does not include game 10 vs Cinc when he was hurt on the Saints 3rd play from scrimmage

Walker pre-Culter:

11 games - 51 receptions - 854 yards - 7 TDs (includes 1 rushing)

Per gm avg: 4.6 rec - 77.6 yds - 0.64 TDs

Colston post-injury:

**5 games - 26 receptions - 287 yards - 2 TDs

Per gm avg: 5.2 rec - 57.4 yds - 0.40 TDs

**does not include final reg. season game vs Carolina when Colston DNP, but does include both playoff games

Walker w/ Cutler:

5 games - 18 receptions - 230 yards - 2 TDs

Per gm avg: 3.6 rec - 46.0 yds - 0.40 TDs

 

[H.K.]

Oh yeah, H.K., you're a bastion for fact-based analysis, including gems like "there is no possible way that Antonio Gates will be the #1 TE in the league".

That is the most bull****, meaningless sentence ever. I hate when people say "Oh, well I *COULD* rip your arguement to shreds... but I'm not going to". Come on, if you could rip his arguement to shreds, I'd love to see you do so. In the meantime, that's nothing but so much noise.

First off, I said it was "statistically impossible for Gates to be the #1 ranked TE". So if you are going to quote me, I suggest you get it right. I also suggest you read the whole thread, it amazes me the amount of people who are so slow to catch on still. *sigh*Moving on....Rip his argument to shreds? No problem.

In PPR, Walker averaged 15.2 PPG on the season. However, that is a hugely deceptive number. Evaluation of the QB split reveals that Plummer at QB vaulted Walker's average to 17.3 PPG, but it plummeted to 10.6 PPG with Cutler at QB.

On the flip side, take a look at Colston. On the surface, it looks like he averaged 15.8 PPG in the 14 games he played in. However, a closer look shows he only got 1 target in 2 games he was credited playing (1 missed to injury, and one he left early in Week 17), so essentially he averaged 18.5 PPG for the 12 games he played 4 quarters.

If you want Walker's 10.6 PPG with Cutler over Colston's 18.5 PPG with Brees, be my guest.

Its ridiculous to debate these things when people don't even know the scoring system and how it impacts players, or understand how circumstances help and hurt fantasy statistics. I have no idea why I keep trying to help some of you people, yet I soldier on...Heavy is the head that wears the crown...

FYI - It's statistically impossible for Walker to be Top 10 in PPR leagues this year. There. You made me say it. Happy now?

 

[JohnnyU]

Oh yeah, H.K., you're a bastion for fact-based analysis, including gems like "there is no possible way that Antonio Gates will be the #1 TE in the league".

That is the most bull****, meaningless sentence ever. I hate when people say "Oh, well I *COULD* rip your arguement to shreds... but I'm not going to". Come on, if you could rip his arguement to shreds, I'd love to see you do so. In the meantime, that's nothing but so much noise.

First off, I said it was "statistically impossible for Gates to be the #1 ranked TE". So if you are going to quote me, I suggest you get it right. I also suggest you read the whole thread, it amazes me the amount of people who are so slow to catch on still. *sigh*Moving on....Rip his argument to shreds? No problem.

In PPR, Walker averaged 15.2 PPG on the season. However, that is a hugely deceptive number. Evaluation of the QB split reveals that Plummer at QB vaulted Walker's average to 17.3 PPG, but it plummeted to 10.6 PPG with Cutler at QB.

On the flip side, take a look at Colston. On the surface, it looks like he averaged 15.8 PPG in the 14 games he played in. However, a closer look shows he only got 1 target in 2 games he was credited playing (1 missed to injury, and one he left early in Week 17), so essentially he averaged 18.5 PPG for the 12 games he played 4 quarters.

If you want Walker's 10.6 PPG with Cutler over Colston's 18.5 PPG with Brees, be my guest.

Its ridiculous to debate these things when people don't even know the scoring system and how it impacts players, or understand how circumstances help and hurt fantasy statistics. I have no idea why I keep trying to help some of you people, yet I soldier on...Heavy is the head that wears the crown...

FYI - It's statistically impossible for Walker to be Top 10 in PPR leagues this year. There. You made me say it. Happy now?

I'll revisit this thread in Nov or Dec either way.

 

[SSOG]

FYI - It's statistically impossible for Walker to be Top 10 in PPR leagues this year. There. You made me say it. Happy now?

FWIW, I don't think Walker finishes in the top 10 this year, either- and if he does, it's almost certainly going to be in the bottom half of the top 10- but I do think he finishes ahead of Colston.

 

[H.K.]

FYI - It's statistically impossible for Walker to be Top 10 in PPR leagues this year. There. You made me say it. Happy now?

FWIW, I don't think Walker finishes in the top 10 this year, either- and if he does, it's almost certainly going to be in the bottom half of the top 10- but I do think he finishes ahead of Colston.

You are right, Walker has no chance at Top 10 in PPR so I need to revise my stance:It is statistically impossible for Walker to to finish Top 15 among WR's in PPR this season.

 

[JohnnyU]

Walker two years removed from his ACL, Cutler has some experience now, and he is still young. Walker in a landslide IMO. Colston came out of nowhere last season, he just might retreat back there in his sophmore season. I'm not sold on Colston yet. Let's see him do it again this year when teams pay more attention to him.