Jay Cutler wont vaccinate kids because of autism (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

There were less than 500 cases of measles last year, and the odds of dying from it are less than 1 in 1000. You have a much better shot at getting lost on a flight leaving Malaysia. Yeah he should probably give his kids the shot, but the risks of either choice is slim to none.

How many of those cases were in vaccinated children?

In this case it was 48% of the children with measles were vaccinated. Of couse the kids who weren't vaccinated are by far at greater risk when exposed, but the vaccine is also not near 100% effective.

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.

How many of the children who suffered from side effects of the vaccinations were vaccinated?

 

[DrJ]

This thread is becoming horrible.

stop posting. it'll get better

You guys need me to keep this from becoming a total travesty. It's disturbing that some of you windbags are taking it the direction you are.

 

[joffer]

This thread is becoming horrible.

stop posting. it'll get better

You guys need me to keep this from becoming a total travesty. It's disturbing that some of you windbags are taking it the direction you are.

we always appreciate the input of DrScience

 

[joffer]

The United States was founded on Christian principals and it is against God's will to vaccine.

1. no it wasn't

2. no one cares

 

[Henry Ford]

There were less than 500 cases of measles last year, and the odds of dying from it are less than 1 in 1000. You have a much better shot at getting lost on a flight leaving Malaysia. Yeah he should probably give his kids the shot, but the risks of either choice is slim to none.

How many of those cases were in vaccinated children?

In this case it was 48% of the children with measles were vaccinated. Of couse the kids who weren't vaccinated are by far at greater risk when exposed, but the vaccine is also not near 100% effective.

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.

How many of the children who suffered from side effects of the vaccinations were vaccinated?

So enrollment of 2098 students, 95% vaccinated. That means about 105 students were not vaccinated. 27 cases were reported, based on the definition provided. Sounds like 14 were unvaccinated and 13 were vaccinated, then?

14/105 unvaccinated got the virus, or 13%, despite a large number of the unvaccinated being vaccinated after the outbreak began, and the remainder being sent home until weeks after the last documented case in May once the outbreak began.

13/1993 vaccinated students got the virus, or .6%

I'm not sure this study helps you.

 

[DrJ]

This thread is becoming horrible.

stop posting. it'll get better

You guys need me to keep this from becoming a total travesty. It's disturbing that some of you windbags are taking it the direction you are.

we always appreciate the input of DrScience

It definitely helps to break up the monotony of the pseudo intellectual snarkiness. I'm happy to oblige.

 

[shadyridr]

There were less than 500 cases of measles last year, and the odds of dying from it are less than 1 in 1000. You have a much better shot at getting lost on a flight leaving Malaysia. Yeah he should probably give his kids the shot, but the risks of either choice is slim to none.

How many of those cases were in vaccinated children?

In this case it was 48% of the children with measles were vaccinated. Of couse the kids who weren't vaccinated are by far at greater risk when exposed, but the vaccine is also not near 100% effective.

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.

How many of the children who suffered from side effects of the vaccinations were vaccinated?

So enrollment of 2098 students, 95% vaccinated. That means about 105 students were not vaccinated. 27 cases were reported, based on the definition provided. Sounds like 14 were unvaccinated and 13 were vaccinated, then?

14/105 unvaccinated got the virus, or 13%, despite a large number of the unvaccinated being vaccinated after the outbreak began, and the remainder being sent home until weeks after the last documented case in May once the outbreak began.

13/1993 vaccinated students got the virus, or .6%

I'm not sure this study helps you.

His study is a clear example of the reindeer effect

 

[jon_mx]

There were less than 500 cases of measles last year, and the odds of dying from it are less than 1 in 1000. You have a much better shot at getting lost on a flight leaving Malaysia. Yeah he should probably give his kids the shot, but the risks of either choice is slim to none.

How many of those cases were in vaccinated children?

In this case it was 48% of the children with measles were vaccinated. Of couse the kids who weren't vaccinated are by far at greater risk when exposed, but the vaccine is also not near 100% effective.

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.

How many of the children who suffered from side effects of the vaccinations were vaccinated?

So enrollment of 2098 students, 95% vaccinated. That means about 105 students were not vaccinated. 27 cases were reported, based on the definition provided. Sounds like 14 were unvaccinated and 13 were vaccinated, then?

14/105 unvaccinated got the virus, or 13%, despite a large number of the unvaccinated being vaccinated after the outbreak began, and the remainder being sent home until weeks after the last documented case in May once the outbreak began.

13/1993 vaccinated students got the virus, or .6%

I'm not sure this study helps you.

I have been clear that I believe vaccinations are effective and if you are exposed you are at a much greater risk if you are unvaccinated. There is a strong case that can be made that Culter made the best choice for his family though, based on most everyone else has been vaccinated and the risk of exposure in the US is very slim. Quite possibly to the point where his children are more at danger from adverse side-effects than the diseases they prevent.

 

[butcher boy]

Is Fox News telling these people not to vaccinate or something?

 

[jon_mx]

Is Fox News telling these people not to vaccinate or something?

There is quite a large group of liberals that don't vaccinate too. It is not a right-left issue, but is significant on the finges of both sides.

 

[butcher boy]

Is Fox News telling these people not to vaccinate or something?

There is quite a large group of liberals that don't vaccinate too. It is not a right-left issue, but is significant on the finges of both sides.

So it's the whacko position not to vaccinate then. Not surprising.

 

[Chaka]

There were less than 500 cases of measles last year, and the odds of dying from it are less than 1 in 1000. You have a much better shot at getting lost on a flight leaving Malaysia. Yeah he should probably give his kids the shot, but the risks of either choice is slim to none.

How many of those cases were in vaccinated children?

In this case it was 48% of the children with measles were vaccinated. Of couse the kids who weren't vaccinated are by far at greater risk when exposed, but the vaccine is also not near 100% effective.

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.

How many of the children who suffered from side effects of the vaccinations were vaccinated?

So enrollment of 2098 students, 95% vaccinated. That means about 105 students were not vaccinated. 27 cases were reported, based on the definition provided. Sounds like 14 were unvaccinated and 13 were vaccinated, then?

14/105 unvaccinated got the virus, or 13%, despite a large number of the unvaccinated being vaccinated after the outbreak began, and the remainder being sent home until weeks after the last documented case in May once the outbreak began.

13/1993 vaccinated students got the virus, or .6%

I'm not sure this study helps you.

It doesn't. The article states right there in the abstract that

Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age.

 

[Chaka]

There were less than 500 cases of measles last year, and the odds of dying from it are less than 1 in 1000. You have a much better shot at getting lost on a flight leaving Malaysia. Yeah he should probably give his kids the shot, but the risks of either choice is slim to none.

How many of those cases were in vaccinated children?

In this case it was 48% of the children with measles were vaccinated. Of couse the kids who weren't vaccinated are by far at greater risk when exposed, but the vaccine is also not near 100% effective.

An outbreak of measles occurred in a high school with a documented vaccination level of 98 per cent. Nineteen (70 per cent) of the cases were students who had histories of measles vaccination at 12 months of age or older and are therefore considered vaccine failures. Persons who were unimmunized or immunized at less than 12 months of age had substantially higher attack rates compared to those immunized on or after 12 months of age. Vaccine failures among apparently adequately vaccinated individuals were sources of infection for at least 48 per cent of the cases in the outbreak. There was no evidence to suggest that waning immunity was a contributing factor among the vaccine failures. Close contact with cases of measles in the high school, source or provider of vaccine, sharing common activities or classes with cases, and verification of the vaccination history were not significant risk factors in the outbreak.

How many of the children who suffered from side effects of the vaccinations were vaccinated?

So enrollment of 2098 students, 95% vaccinated. That means about 105 students were not vaccinated. 27 cases were reported, based on the definition provided. Sounds like 14 were unvaccinated and 13 were vaccinated, then?

14/105 unvaccinated got the virus, or 13%, despite a large number of the unvaccinated being vaccinated after the outbreak began, and the remainder being sent home until weeks after the last documented case in May once the outbreak began.

13/1993 vaccinated students got the virus, or .6%

I'm not sure this study helps you.

I have been clear that I believe vaccinations are effective and if you are exposed you are at a much greater risk if you are unvaccinated. There is a strong case that can be made that Culter made the best choice for his family though, based on most everyone else has been vaccinated and the risk of exposure in the US is very slim. Quite possibly to the point where his children are more at danger from adverse side-effects than the diseases they prevent.

No, it can't.

 

[jon_mx]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

 

[Chaka]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

 

[Freelove]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.

There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

 

[proninja]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

 

[igbomb]

See, there's a secret plan to put liberal juice in vaccines and inject it into your kids

I KNEW it!

It would be interesting to see the statistics and political affiliations of those who are anti vaccine. I only know one person vehemently against vaccines, and he is a tea bagger, conspiracy theorist, NRA gun apologist, wacko.

My old neighbor, the most rabid anti-vaccine nut I know, just compared Obama to Hitler on her facebook page this morning. Guess what side of the aisle she falls on?

 

[jon_mx]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.

There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

Absolutely, if they were involved in foreign travel, they should be vaccinated. But in the US, there have been very few outbreaks and they have been isolated to a few communities. If he is in Ohio right now, he would be in trouble. As long as there is a high vaccination rate in his area and the chances of outbreak are extremely low, they are in good shape with a very minute risk. The fact the Culter travels a lot, puts his family in a higher risk category though.

 

[Henry Ford]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.

There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

Absolutely, if they were involved in foreign travel, they should be vaccinated. But in the US, there have been very few outbreaks and they have been isolated to a few communities. If he is in Ohio right now, he would be in trouble. As long as there is a high vaccination rate in his area and the chances of outbreak are extremely low, they are in good shape with a very minute risk. The fact the Culter travels a lot, puts his family in a higher risk category though.

And all the people he works with travel a lot. Many to Africa and Europe in the off season.

 

[jon_mx]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

This article seems sane, but there is some spin that goes a bit far.

 

[Chaka]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

Absolutely, if they were involved in foreign travel, they should be vaccinated. But in the US, there have been very few outbreaks and they have been isolated to a few communities. If he is in Ohio right now, he would be in trouble. As long as there is a high vaccination rate in his area and the chances of outbreak are extremely low, they are in good shape with a very minute risk. The fact the Culter travels a lot, puts his family in a higher risk category though.

And all the people he works with travel a lot. Many to Africa and Europe in the off season.

Don't bother, he's not listening.

 

[sn0mm1s]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.

There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

Absolutely, if they were involved in foreign travel, they should be vaccinated. But in the US, there have been very few outbreaks and they have been isolated to a few communities. If he is in Ohio right now, he would be in trouble. As long as there is a high vaccination rate in his area and the chances of outbreak are extremely low, they are in good shape with a very minute risk. The fact the Culter travels a lot, puts his family in a higher risk category though.

According to the numbers posted earlier there are ~30000 cases of bad reactions to vaccines each year.

In 2012, there were 48000 cases of Pertussis alone (In the 1990s there were a *total* of 57000 cases).

Cutler can't confirm what the vaccination rate is in his area - and going by the numbers - it appears that like minded people live together. So, using your condition probability the fact that he is anti-vax likely means he associates with a greater number of other people that are anti-vax.

Cutler is wrong.

 

[jon_mx]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

Absolutely, if they were involved in foreign travel, they should be vaccinated. But in the US, there have been very few outbreaks and they have been isolated to a few communities. If he is in Ohio right now, he would be in trouble. As long as there is a high vaccination rate in his area and the chances of outbreak are extremely low, they are in good shape with a very minute risk. The fact the Culter travels a lot, puts his family in a higher risk category though.

And all the people he works with travel a lot. Many to Africa and Europe in the off season.

Don't bother, he's not listening.

He was only tweaking the same point I was making.

 

[Chaka]

No, it can't.

It very well can. You fail to understand conditional probability.

You are wrong on both counts.

To be fair, he's not necessarily 100% wrong for all cases, for all children.There are certainly cases where a child might live in a rural, isolationist, heavily-vaccinated community where the insular and exposure-free nature of his life might make the utterly trivial competing risks a coinflip.

But what are the odds Cutler's family lives in the sort of major, international, densely populated metro area where the risk of dangerous illness is highest?

What are the odds his kid will be in the sorts of social situations, such as those at the best schools and daycares, where other kids he associates with may be from the sorts of well-to-do families that frequently engage in international travel?

Absolutely, if they were involved in foreign travel, they should be vaccinated. But in the US, there have been very few outbreaks and they have been isolated to a few communities. If he is in Ohio right now, he would be in trouble. As long as there is a high vaccination rate in his area and the chances of outbreak are extremely low, they are in good shape with a very minute risk. The fact the Culter travels a lot, puts his family in a higher risk category though.

And all the people he works with travel a lot. Many to Africa and Europe in the off season.

Don't bother, he's not listening.

He was only tweaking the same point I was making.

Uh-huh and your point that there is a strong argument in favor of Cutler's position only applies in a vacuum. The only thing about Cutler that exists in a vacuum is his brain.

 

[Politician Spock]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

This is why I hate the Alex Jones types in the country. 90%+ of what they spew is utter BS. But a little bit of what they say are real questionable issues in the country. The NSA spying is a good example. The problem is far too many people (especially timschochet) automatically lump you in with that whacko crowd if you reckoginize an issue is questionable, when that issue is something the Alex Jones whacko crowd is claiming is a conspiracy. It makes having any real discussion of the issue impossible.

 

[Henry Ford]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of reaction did you have? Is it something that's likely to be passed on to your children, as far as their reactions?

 

[Freelove]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

This is why I hate the Alex Jones types in the country. 90%+ of what they spew is utter BS. But a little bit of what they say are real questionable issues in the country. The NSA spying is a good example. The problem is far too many people (especially timschochet) automatically lump you in with that whacko crowd if you reckoginize an issue is questionable, when that issue is something the Alex Jones whacko crowd is claiming is a conspiracy. It makes having any real discussion of the issue impossible.

The rest of the thread notwithstanding, one of the most amazingly successful and socially damaging pieces of propaganda I've witnessed occurring in my lifetime is the transformation of the phrase "conspiracy theory," from "plausible reason that demands further investigation," to "whackadoo stupidity-driven insanity."

I suspect this is because more and more powerful people want to get way with bigger and bigger conspiracies.

That said, Cutler should still vaccinate his kid.

 

[rockaction]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

This is why I hate the Alex Jones types in the country. 90%+ of what they spew is utter BS. But a little bit of what they say are real questionable issues in the country. The NSA spying is a good example. The problem is far too many people (especially timschochet) automatically lump you in with that whacko crowd if you reckoginize an issue is questionable, when that issue is something the Alex Jones whacko crowd is claiming is a conspiracy. It makes having any real discussion of the issue impossible.

The rest of the thread notwithstanding, one of the most amazingly successful and socially damaging pieces of propaganda I've witnessed occurring in my lifetime is the transformation of the phrase "conspiracy theory," from "plausible reason that demands further investigation," to "whackadoo stupidity-driven insanity."

I suspect this is because more and more powerful people want to get way with bigger and bigger conspiracies.

That said, Cutler should still vaccinate his kid.

Because we've gotten past the point of tough, rational debate about tough, uneasily answered issues and just moved on to slinging mud with snark?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

The first article in this journal (starting on page 237) is a good overview.

The CDC also has a page on potential side effects. (More info from them here.)

 

[shadyridr]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of reaction did you have? Is it something that's likely to be passed on to your children, as far as their reactions?

It has hindered his ability to use Google

 

[datonn]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

This is why I hate the Alex Jones types in the country. 90%+ of what they spew is utter BS. But a little bit of what they say are real questionable issues in the country. The NSA spying is a good example. The problem is far too many people (especially timschochet) automatically lump you in with that whacko crowd if you reckoginize an issue is questionable, when that issue is something the Alex Jones whacko crowd is claiming is a conspiracy. It makes having any real discussion of the issue impossible.

The problem REALLY is either associating yourself with said wackos, a la "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," or (related, and more importantly) refusing to DIS-associate with/from said wackos. This is, in my opinion, the greatest failure of the Republican Party over the past ~20 years. Not denouncing and chastising the nuts on their own side of the aisle. And even worse, when called on the carpet for it, their common (often only) response? "The Democrats have their nuts too."

Those of us in the middle want truth, reason. Will support the candidate/party we think gives us the best shot at it, anyway. If someone is driving home drunk and injures or kills my daughter while blowing a .12, you really think that person's best, smartest defense is "well, thousands of people drive home drunk every night...so cut me some slack, G!" Or might the best course of action be to police themselves...never allow themselves to even be in the position of driving drunk in the first place? But keep up with the "lots of people drive drunk" defense/retort, related to American politics. It's already destroyed the Party I used to be in back in the 80s and 90s anyway...so since it's FUBARed, you might as well see if you can get it to glow after dark, via all the radioactivity.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

So in the most recent measles outbreak, the majority of the children that were infected had been previously vacinated. This is in an areas with a high rate of non-vacinated, none of these children died, they will all go on to live otherwise healthy lives, and we are upset at those who do not vaccinate rather than the obvious poor results of vaccinations in this instance... The media and medical community seem to be doing a tremendous amount of gymnastics to try to prove that the first child who caught measals, and a legally infected all the others, had not been vacinated... What difference does that make if the children who were vacinated could have caught it anyways?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So in the most recent measles outbreak, the majority of the children that were infected had been previously vacinated.

The majority of the children who avoided infection had also been previously vaccinated.

Do those two truths simply cancel each other out, or is there a way, mathematically, to determine whether vaccination increases or decreases a child's chance of infection?

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

 

[igbomb]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

But as Carolina Hustler points out, we should clearly be focusing on the terrible effectiveness of vaccines rather than how many people are getting them.

 

[jon_mx]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

Is someone arguing vaccines don't work?

 

[Henry Ford]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

The chicken pox numbers are just staggering. Four million down to 216,000. Amazing.

 

[Henry Ford]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

Is someone arguing vaccines don't work?

It certainly sounds that way from CH's post.

 

[Politician Spock]

As one of the people who had an adverse reaction to a vaccine when I was small, and suspecting that its affects are still with me today, I'm leery of vaccines.

The problem is, I look around at the people who don't want to vaccinate, and I don't really want to put myself in that group of people. Can someone point me toward an anti-vaxx article/website/research that sounds sane? I'd like to educate myself a bit on this.

This is why I hate the Alex Jones types in the country. 90%+ of what they spew is utter BS. But a little bit of what they say are real questionable issues in the country. The NSA spying is a good example. The problem is far too many people (especially timschochet) automatically lump you in with that whacko crowd if you reckoginize an issue is questionable, when that issue is something the Alex Jones whacko crowd is claiming is a conspiracy. It makes having any real discussion of the issue impossible.

The problem REALLY is either associating yourself with said wackos, a la "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," or (related, and more importantly) refusing to DIS-associate with/from said wackos. This is, in my opinion, the greatest failure of the Republican Party over the past ~20 years. Not denouncing and chastising the nuts on their own side of the aisle. And even worse, when called on the carpet for it, their common (often only) response? "The Democrats have their nuts too." Those of us in the middle want truth, reason. Will support the candidate/party we think gives us the best shot at it, anyway. If someone is driving home drunk and injures or kills my daughter while blowing a .12, you really think that person's best, smartest defense is "well, thousands of people drive home drunk every night...so cut me some slack, G!" Or might the best course of action be to police themselves...never allow themselves to even be in the position of driving drunk in the first place? But keep up with the "lots of people drive drunk" defense/retort, related to American politics. It's already destroyed the Party I used to be in back in the 80s and 90s anyway...so since it's FUBARed, you might as well see if you can get it to glow after dark, via all the radioactivity.

Lumping me in with the republicans is no different than lumping me in with the Alex Jones whackos. Around 2007, I had enough of the republican party, and haven't voted for a republican since. I've also never voted for a democrat. Today I believe the richest 1% owns both parties, and is why our country runs as a democratic form of a plutocracy.

That being said, I don't know what more I can do to dis-associate myself from the republicans, let alone dis-sssociate from those whackos associated to the republicans. Many people here at this forum still respond to me like I'm a die hard republican. I don't blame them, because I was. I'm only pointing out that there's only so much one can do to dis-associate from something, even after 7 years, let alone dis-associating from something I've never been a part of like the Alex Jones crowd.

Like I said earlier, I'm not anti-vaccine. All three of my kids are vaccinated. But I think there are questionable things that need to be debated before vaccinations should be mandated by law. Unfortunately the Alex Jones crowd is dominating the "no" side of the debate with ridiculous accusations. Making any real discussion of the issue impossible.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Like I said earlier, I'm not anti-vaccine. All three of my kids are vaccinated. But I think there are questionable things that need to be debated before vaccinations should be mandated by law. Unfortunately the Alex Jones crowd is dominating the "no" side of the debate with ridiculous accusations. Making any real discussion of the issue impossible.

Are these "questionable things" backed up with any science? Or are they "questionable" just because?

 

[sn0mm1s]

So in the most recent measles outbreak, the majority of the children that were infected had been previously vacinated. This is in an areas with a high rate of non-vacinated, none of these children died, they will all go on to live otherwise healthy lives, and we are upset at those who do not vaccinate rather than the obvious poor results of vaccinations in this instance... The media and medical community seem to be doing a tremendous amount of gymnastics to try to prove that the first child who caught measals, and a legally infected all the others, had not been vacinated... What difference does that make if the children who were vacinated could have caught it anyways?

Seriously? I don't even know where to begin with this. I think a basic math class is in order for Carolina Hustler before we can even start discussing what is wrong with this post.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The chicken pox numbers are just staggering. Four million down to 216,000. Amazing.

I'm 44. Was there a chicken pox vaccine when I was a kid? As I remember it, getting chicken pox was sort of a rite of passage. I think I got it when I was around ten.

 

[Politician Spock]

Like I said earlier, I'm not anti-vaccine. All three of my kids are vaccinated. But I think there are questionable things that need to be debated before vaccinations should be mandated by law. Unfortunately the Alex Jones crowd is dominating the "no" side of the debate with ridiculous accusations. Making any real discussion of the issue impossible.

Are these "questionable things" backed up with any science? Or are they "questionable" just because?

Do you consider natural selection to be backed up with science?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The chicken pox numbers are just staggering. Four million down to 216,000. Amazing.

I'm 44. Was there a chicken pox vaccine when I was a kid? As I remember it, getting chicken pox was sort of a rite of passage. I think I got it when I was around ten.

Just googled it. No there was not.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

The chicken pox numbers are just staggering. Four million down to 216,000. Amazing.

And the numbers are comparing Pre-Vaccine "Morbidity" to Post-Vaccine "Reported Cases". It does not say whether the "Reported Cases" resulted in death. I would imagine that they are just that -- reported cases. They may or may not have resulted in death. So likely the the post-vaccine morbidity is even lower than the number of "Reported Cases".

 

[Henry Ford]

Like I said earlier, I'm not anti-vaccine. All three of my kids are vaccinated. But I think there are questionable things that need to be debated before vaccinations should be mandated by law. Unfortunately the Alex Jones crowd is dominating the "no" side of the debate with ridiculous accusations. Making any real discussion of the issue impossible.

Are these "questionable things" backed up with any, you know, science? Or are they "questionable" just because?

I think it's reasonable for any parent to wonder about what's going into his/her kid. There is some weak association between some vaccinations and childhood onset asthma, and that should give parents pause - a longitudinal study indicated that there may be a good reason to delay some vaccines by about 2 months.

These are real concerns. However - again - changing the vaccination schedule does not equate to refusing to vaccinate.

 

[joffer]

Like I said earlier, I'm not anti-vaccine. All three of my kids are vaccinated. But I think there are questionable things that need to be debated before vaccinations should be mandated by law. Unfortunately the Alex Jones crowd is dominating the "no" side of the debate with ridiculous accusations. Making any real discussion of the issue impossible.

Are these "questionable things" backed up with any science? Or are they "questionable" just because?

Do you consider natural selection to be backed up with science?

wut

 

[Henry Ford]

Pre-Vaccine Era Most Recent
Estimated Annual Reports of Percent
Disease Morbidity* US Cases Decrease

Diphtheria 21,053 1 >99%
H. influenzae 20,000 30 >99%
Hepatitis A 117,333 2,890 98%
Hepatitis B 66,232 18,800 72%
Measles 530,217 55 >99%
Mumps 162,344 229 >99%
Pertussis 200,752 48,277 76%
Pneumococcal 16,069 1,800 89%
disease
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Rotavirus 62,500 1,250 98%
Rubella 47,745 9 >99%
Congenital 152 3 98%
Rubella
Syndrome
Smallpox 29,005 0 100%
Tetanus 580 37 94%
Varicella 4,085,120 216,511 95%

I know this is actual data, so I fully expect for any anti-vax wackos to dispute the truth.

The chicken pox numbers are just staggering. Four million down to 216,000. Amazing.

And the numbers are comparing Pre-Vaccine "Morbidity" to Post-Vaccine "Reported Cases". It does not say whether the "Reported Cases" resulted in death. I would imagine that they are just that -- reported cases. They may or may not have resulted in death. So likely the the post-vaccine morbidity is even lower than the number of "Reported Cases".

Morbidity is just the rate of disease.

 

[jhib]

See, there's a secret plan to put liberal juice in vaccines and inject it into your kids

I KNEW it!

It would be interesting to see the statistics and political affiliations of those who are anti vaccine. I only know one person vehemently against vaccines, and he is a tea bagger, conspiracy theorist, NRA gun apologist, wacko.

My old neighbor, the most rabid anti-vaccine nut I know, just compared Obama to Hitler on her facebook page this morning. Guess what side of the aisle she falls on?

Anecdotal, but the only anti-vaxxers I know are the hippy, vegan, homeopathy-believing types who say it's not "natural."

I'm pretty sure they aren't on the same side of the aisle as your neighbor.