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Jerry Jones (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bankerguy
- Start date
Statcruncher
Footballguy
As a Chicago fan living in Dallas I get a ton of coverage of the Cowboys and Jerry Jones. Jerry is a rabid Cowboys homer who will do anything to make his team more competitive, forcing his morality and integrity take a back seat. He appears to be a good guy but it's hard to overlook his willingness to sellout. I'm glad he's not the owner of Chicago, even though they would have probably won a few more Super Bowls.
T Bell
Footballguy
Hey, I voted my option! 
Just so we can come back to this at a later date, I'll lay out what I believe here.
My overall vote is that he's the suck, and what it comes down to is player evaluation, both in terms of college scouting and also misjudging player value in trade. Jones is a rank amateur, but he's the most dangerous kind because he's both in charge (with no one to override his moves) and he also believes that he's not an amateur. This has been covered up twice, first by Johnson 15-20 years ago, and then by Parcells and Ireland over the last 5 years, which disguises his weaknesses as a player evaluator. In fact, people on this very board are trumpeting his draft the past two years and are missing that the scouting of college players and the prioritization of team needs for those drafts were still being done by Ireland, a Parcells disciple who's now in Miami.
I think you're going to see a decline in the acquisition of players via the draft an in trades starting this season and going forward that was comparable to what you saw circa 1995-2002, and it's all because the emperor has no clothes.
I will give credit where credit is due and point out that Jones does spend to win, unlike some owners. Of course, in Dallas he'd be crucified if he didn't, and he also has the distinct advantage of operating one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world in a salary cap system, so that is somewhat tepid praise.
Just so we can come back to this at a later date, I'll lay out what I believe here.
My overall vote is that he's the suck, and what it comes down to is player evaluation, both in terms of college scouting and also misjudging player value in trade. Jones is a rank amateur, but he's the most dangerous kind because he's both in charge (with no one to override his moves) and he also believes that he's not an amateur. This has been covered up twice, first by Johnson 15-20 years ago, and then by Parcells and Ireland over the last 5 years, which disguises his weaknesses as a player evaluator. In fact, people on this very board are trumpeting his draft the past two years and are missing that the scouting of college players and the prioritization of team needs for those drafts were still being done by Ireland, a Parcells disciple who's now in Miami.
I think you're going to see a decline in the acquisition of players via the draft an in trades starting this season and going forward that was comparable to what you saw circa 1995-2002, and it's all because the emperor has no clothes.
I will give credit where credit is due and point out that Jones does spend to win, unlike some owners. Of course, in Dallas he'd be crucified if he didn't, and he also has the distinct advantage of operating one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world in a salary cap system, so that is somewhat tepid praise.
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Bankerguy
Footballguy
Atta boy for voting for the right one!Here is how the Cowboys draft. It kills your JJ picks names out of hat idea.Hey, I voted my option!
Just so we can come back to this at a later date, I'll lay out what I believe here.
My overall vote is that he's the suck, and what it comes down to is player evaluation, both in terms of college scouting and also misjudging player value in trade. Jones is a rank amateur, but he's the most dangerous kind because he's both in charge (with no one to override his moves) and he also believes that he's not an amateur. This has been covered up twice, first by Johnson 15-20 years ago, and then by Parcells and Ireland over the last 5 years, which disguises his weaknesses as a player evaluator. In fact, people on this very board are trumpeting his draft the past two years and are missing that the scouting of college players and the prioritization of team needs for those drafts were still being done by Ireland, a Parcells disciple who's now in Miami.
I think you're going to see a decline in the acquisition of players via the draft an in trades starting this season and going forward that was comparable to what you saw circa 1995-2002, and it's all because the emperor has no clothes.
I will give credit where credit is due and point out that Jones does spend to win, unlike some owners. Of course, in Dallas he'd be crucified if he didn't, and he also has the distinct advantage of operating one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world in a salary cap system, so that is somewhat tepid praise.
Who will be running the draft for the Cowboys? What can you tell us about this Tom Ciskowski? I'm concerned Jerry will reach for a player like he's done in the past.
Jean-Jacques Taylor: Here's the way the Cowboys have set up their draft for the last several years. Each player gets graded by six different members of the organization. Then the player receives a consensus grade from the entire organization and that determines where he is placed on the draft board. The idea behind the concept is to prevent one person – Parcells or Jerry – from steamrolling the process. Ciskowski is a well-respected scout throughout the NFL and has handled the college scouting for several years.
IMO.....
Drafts have been very good lately.
He trades up and down very effectively over the last couple of drafts.
FA pick ups......Every one laughed at Leonard Davis.
Trades have been decent as well.
I think he gets a bad rap because of the past.
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T Bell
Footballguy
That's wonderful about Ciskowski. He's been there since 2000*, however, which means that he's got the 2000-02 drafts on his resume, which were abortions by any standard, Quincy Carter merely being the most embarrassing example. So with him as a "control", if you will, we note that Parcells came in and was there from 2003-2006, and hired Ireland in 2005 who remained there until January 2008, and the 2003-08 drafts all greatly improved. If Ciskowski's all you got as a response to how the Cowboys are going to fend off mediocrity in the front office under Jones, you have my sympathies.Atta boy for voting for the right one!Here is how the Cowboys draft. It kills your JJ picks names out of hat idea.Hey, I voted my option!
Just so we can come back to this at a later date, I'll lay out what I believe here.
My overall vote is that he's the suck, and what it comes down to is player evaluation, both in terms of college scouting and also misjudging player value in trade. Jones is a rank amateur, but he's the most dangerous kind because he's both in charge (with no one to override his moves) and he also believes that he's not an amateur. This has been covered up twice, first by Johnson 15-20 years ago, and then by Parcells and Ireland over the last 5 years, which disguises his weaknesses as a player evaluator. In fact, people on this very board are trumpeting his draft the past two years and are missing that the scouting of college players and the prioritization of team needs for those drafts were still being done by Ireland, a Parcells disciple who's now in Miami.
I think you're going to see a decline in the acquisition of players via the draft an in trades starting this season and going forward that was comparable to what you saw circa 1995-2002, and it's all because the emperor has no clothes.
I will give credit where credit is due and point out that Jones does spend to win, unlike some owners. Of course, in Dallas he'd be crucified if he didn't, and he also has the distinct advantage of operating one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world in a salary cap system, so that is somewhat tepid praise.
Who will be running the draft for the Cowboys? What can you tell us about this Tom Ciskowski? I'm concerned Jerry will reach for a player like he's done in the past.
Jean-Jacques Taylor: Here's the way the Cowboys have set up their draft for the last several years. Each player gets graded by six different members of the organization. Then the player receives a consensus grade from the entire organization and that determines where he is placed on the draft board. The idea behind the concept is to prevent one person – Parcells or Jerry – from steamrolling the process. Ciskowski is a well-respected scout throughout the NFL and has handled the college scouting for several years.
IMO.....
Drafts have been very good lately.
He trades up and down very effectively over the last couple of drafts.
FA pick ups......Every one laughed at Leonard Davis.
Trades have been decent as well.
I think he gets a bad rap because of the past.
*Let me clarify - I'm referring to his position as Asst. Director of College and Pro scouting, which he held before this year when he was promoted to Director. He's been with the Cowboys scouting dept. since 1992.
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bigupsetter
Footballguy
Im not a huge JJ fan. You have to give him credit with Felix Jones, so he does good and bad- like many GMs. He's better than Matt Millen...lol
Bankerguy
Footballguy
Fair point but the new org stucture wasn't rolled yet.That's wonderful about Ciskowski. He's been there since 2000*, however, which means that he's got the 2000-02 drafts on his resume, which were abortions by any standard, Quincy Carter merely being the most embarrassing example. So with him as a "control", if you will, we note that Parcells came in and was there from 2003-2006, and hired Ireland in 2005 who remained there until January 2008, and the 2003-08 drafts all greatly improved. If Ciskowski's all you got as a response to how the Cowboys are going to fend off mediocrity in the front office under Jones, you have my sympathies.Atta boy for voting for the right one!Here is how the Cowboys draft. It kills your JJ picks names out of hat idea.Hey, I voted my option!
Just so we can come back to this at a later date, I'll lay out what I believe here.
My overall vote is that he's the suck, and what it comes down to is player evaluation, both in terms of college scouting and also misjudging player value in trade. Jones is a rank amateur, but he's the most dangerous kind because he's both in charge (with no one to override his moves) and he also believes that he's not an amateur. This has been covered up twice, first by Johnson 15-20 years ago, and then by Parcells and Ireland over the last 5 years, which disguises his weaknesses as a player evaluator. In fact, people on this very board are trumpeting his draft the past two years and are missing that the scouting of college players and the prioritization of team needs for those drafts were still being done by Ireland, a Parcells disciple who's now in Miami.
I think you're going to see a decline in the acquisition of players via the draft an in trades starting this season and going forward that was comparable to what you saw circa 1995-2002, and it's all because the emperor has no clothes.
I will give credit where credit is due and point out that Jones does spend to win, unlike some owners. Of course, in Dallas he'd be crucified if he didn't, and he also has the distinct advantage of operating one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world in a salary cap system, so that is somewhat tepid praise.
Who will be running the draft for the Cowboys? What can you tell us about this Tom Ciskowski? I'm concerned Jerry will reach for a player like he's done in the past.
Jean-Jacques Taylor: Here's the way the Cowboys have set up their draft for the last several years. Each player gets graded by six different members of the organization. Then the player receives a consensus grade from the entire organization and that determines where he is placed on the draft board. The idea behind the concept is to prevent one person – Parcells or Jerry – from steamrolling the process. Ciskowski is a well-respected scout throughout the NFL and has handled the college scouting for several years.
IMO.....
Drafts have been very good lately.
He trades up and down very effectively over the last couple of drafts.
FA pick ups......Every one laughed at Leonard Davis.
Trades have been decent as well.
I think he gets a bad rap because of the past.
*Let me clarify - I'm referring to his position as Asst. Director of College and Pro scouting, which he held before this year when he was promoted to Director. He's been with the Cowboys scouting dept. since 1992.
T Bell
Footballguy
XThey're both aggressive owners of high profile teams in the NFL, but the comparison has stopped there for the last 6-7 years or so.
Snyder has certainly meddled, but he has never run a draft, and he's never named himself GM. He's also never acted as if he's qualified to evaluate players or is a true "football man", which is what Jones tries to pass himself off as.
Where Snyder has failed was, early on, thinking he could spend his way to a championship with expensive, aging veteran players, as exemplified in the 2000 season. He learned his lesson from that and refined his approach, fortunately with Gibbs to show him fully how to hire good people and let them work, though the episode a year ago with Lance Briggs did worry me a little while it was going on. Still, that's not even close to how things operate with the Cowboys and Jones.
All he does now is help to close deals which is the classic role of an owner.
This isn't a poll about Snyder anyway, but the irony of your comment is that Snyder gets more flak for less meddling nowadays than Jones does, and yet Jones is the business man overtly playing GM with his team despite his lack of scouting/player evaluation credentials. It's pretty amazing to me how much people are willing to overlook that with Jones.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
I'd submit that both get an unfair judgement by casual fans.
T Bell
Footballguy
I give Ireland credit for this last draft, and that will be the last draft that I do that. Yes, Ireland was hired away before the draft was held, but most teams have done their evaluations of team needs/direction and scouting and prioritization of college prospects by the time that Ireland departed in January. Between January and the draft all that is left to do is interview and work out those players that teams are already targeting in order to refine their draft day approach - in other words, they're just doing what amounts to due diligence at that point.That was part of why Jerry was initially upset about Ireland getting hired away by Parcells, because he knew that Ireland was carrying with him all of that knowledge of 2008 college prospects from his work with the Cowboys. We'll see what kind of staff Jerry has in place - and how much he'll listen to them - on draft day starting in April 2009.
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