John Elway's Career (1 Viewer)

[Mile High]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

Yawn

 

[Chaka]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

Yawn

Like I said, good for them. I wish it were my team that got away with it.Just don't deny it for what it is.

 

[Reservoir Dog]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.

My top QB's

1. John Elway

2. Tom Brady

3. Joe Montana

4. Peyton Manning

5. Steve Young

6. Brett Favre

7. Dan Marino

 

[Choke]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.

Then he would promptly tell your frachise that he would NEVER play for your sorry orginization and refuse to ever put on your uniform and force his way out of town.Meanwhile you would be watching Joe Montana elevate another franchise and win Super Bowl after Super Bowl, including those that have John Elway QBing against Joe.

During which time, your franchise would have to leave its town... wouldnt win double digit games for another 19 years and only escape the abyss because Peyton Manning landed in your laps for being the worst team in the league.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.My top QB's1. John Elway2. Tom Brady3. Joe Montana4. Peyton Manning5. Steve Young6. Brett Favre7. Dan Marino

I'd take Joe Montana, and if I couldn't get Montana I'd trade with the team that got him. For me, there's a big drop to second.That being said, Elway might be one great player whose legacy doesn't seem to be growing as the years pass, and that's a shame. He's actually underrated now.

 

[SSOG]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?

Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?

Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

They didn't cheat, they broke the rules. You call it semantics, I call it a meaningful distinction. For instance, Chad Ochocinco once kept a sign on the sidelines that read "please don't fine me", and he waved it during a game. There's a rule against that, and he broke that rule. Would you say that he cheated? The NFL hit him with a huge fine. Does that fine prove that he cheated?While the literal definition of "cheat" is "to break the rules", I think everyone here automatically makes a key distinction between breaking the rules, and breaking the rules in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Chad Ochocinco broke the rules, but I don't think anyone here would say he was a cheater. If he got fined during a celebration and the Bengals won, nobody would say "man, put an asterisk on that win, because Ochocinco cheated". That's nonsense. Same principal. Pat Bowlen couldn't honor his financial obligations, so he deferred compensation on existing contracts. No new players were signed above and beyond the cap as a result. The NFL conducted an investigation and said that the Broncos were not trying to secretly gain a competitive advantage over the rest of the league. They even used the word "plainly". If we're going to start looking up definitions, let's start there. Plain- Obvious to the mind, evident. It was, in the words of the NFL, obvious that, while the Broncos did indeed break a rule, they did not do so with the intention of gaining an advantage on the field.

 

[Chaka]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?

Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?

Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

They didn't cheat, they broke the rules. You call it semantics, I call it a meaningful distinction. For instance, Chad Ochocinco once kept a sign on the sidelines that read "please don't fine me", and he waved it during a game. There's a rule against that, and he broke that rule. Would you say that he cheated? The NFL hit him with a huge fine. Does that fine prove that he cheated?While the literal definition of "cheat" is "to break the rules", I think everyone here automatically makes a key distinction between breaking the rules, and breaking the rules in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Chad Ochocinco broke the rules, but I don't think anyone here would say he was a cheater. If he got fined during a celebration and the Bengals won, nobody would say "man, put an asterisk on that win, because Ochocinco cheated". That's nonsense. Same principal. Pat Bowlen couldn't honor his financial obligations, so he deferred compensation on existing contracts. No new players were signed above and beyond the cap as a result. The NFL conducted an investigation and said that the Broncos were not trying to secretly gain a competitive advantage over the rest of the league. They even used the word "plainly". If we're going to start looking up definitions, let's start there. Plain- Obvious to the mind, evident. It was, in the words of the NFL, obvious that, while the Broncos did indeed break a rule, they did not do so with the intention of gaining an advantage on the field.

Do you have the same opinion about the Patriots Spygate issue?Irrelevant actually.

It's okay SSOG.

You got away with it relatively unscathed. Heck only a very small minority of NFL fans are even aware that the Broncos were caught cheating. Be proud of your Super Bowls because no one cares if you cheated to get them.

It's easy to acknowledge: The Broncos cheated, they won Super Bowls, they received a slap on the wrist.

I won't even ask you to state it but just acknowledge it in your heart it for what it is, cheating.

 

[Polar Dude]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?

Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?

Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

They didn't cheat, they broke the rules. You call it semantics, I call it a meaningful distinction. For instance, Chad Ochocinco once kept a sign on the sidelines that read "please don't fine me", and he waved it during a game. There's a rule against that, and he broke that rule. Would you say that he cheated? The NFL hit him with a huge fine. Does that fine prove that he cheated?While the literal definition of "cheat" is "to break the rules", I think everyone here automatically makes a key distinction between breaking the rules, and breaking the rules in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Chad Ochocinco broke the rules, but I don't think anyone here would say he was a cheater. If he got fined during a celebration and the Bengals won, nobody would say "man, put an asterisk on that win, because Ochocinco cheated". That's nonsense. Same principal. Pat Bowlen couldn't honor his financial obligations, so he deferred compensation on existing contracts. No new players were signed above and beyond the cap as a result. The NFL conducted an investigation and said that the Broncos were not trying to secretly gain a competitive advantage over the rest of the league. They even used the word "plainly". If we're going to start looking up definitions, let's start there. Plain- Obvious to the mind, evident. It was, in the words of the NFL, obvious that, while the Broncos did indeed break a rule, they did not do so with the intention of gaining an advantage on the field.

So they PLAINLY penalized the Broncos the largest single fine ever assessed against a club and demanded forfeiture of draft picks for two years.Something doesn't add up.

 

[Chaka]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?

Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?

Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

They didn't cheat, they broke the rules. You call it semantics, I call it a meaningful distinction. For instance, Chad Ochocinco once kept a sign on the sidelines that read "please don't fine me", and he waved it during a game. There's a rule against that, and he broke that rule. Would you say that he cheated? The NFL hit him with a huge fine. Does that fine prove that he cheated?While the literal definition of "cheat" is "to break the rules", I think everyone here automatically makes a key distinction between breaking the rules, and breaking the rules in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Chad Ochocinco broke the rules, but I don't think anyone here would say he was a cheater. If he got fined during a celebration and the Bengals won, nobody would say "man, put an asterisk on that win, because Ochocinco cheated". That's nonsense. Same principal. Pat Bowlen couldn't honor his financial obligations, so he deferred compensation on existing contracts. No new players were signed above and beyond the cap as a result. The NFL conducted an investigation and said that the Broncos were not trying to secretly gain a competitive advantage over the rest of the league. They even used the word "plainly". If we're going to start looking up definitions, let's start there. Plain- Obvious to the mind, evident. It was, in the words of the NFL, obvious that, while the Broncos did indeed break a rule, they did not do so with the intention of gaining an advantage on the field.

Come on SSOG this is terrible spin the Broncos were trying to gain a competitive advantage. If they weren't they would not have paid for things they could not afford when it was against the NFL rules to do so.It's okay man, it's not that big of a deal.

 

[moleculo]

take your squabbling about "creative" salary cap negotiations elsewhere. This thread is about the greatness of Elway.

 

[Chaka]

take your squabbling about "creative" salary cap negotiations cheating elsewhere. This thread is about the greatness of Elway.

I am actually a huge fan of Elway's talent and where he ranks among the all time greats but doesn't the fact that the Broncos cheated (the salary cap if you must define it) impact the legacy of Elway?

 

[Bronco Binkley]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.

Then he would promptly tell your frachise that he would NEVER play for your sorry orginization and refuse to ever put on your uniform and force his way out of town.Meanwhile you would be watching Joe Montana elevate another franchise and win Super Bowl after Super Bowl, including those that have John Elway QBing against Joe.

During which time, your franchise would have to leave its town... wouldnt win double digit games for another 19 years and only escape the abyss because Peyton Manning landed in your laps for being the worst team in the league.

You mean like Montana elevated the Chiefs?

 

[Bronco Binkley]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?

Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?

Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

They didn't cheat, they broke the rules. You call it semantics, I call it a meaningful distinction. For instance, Chad Ochocinco once kept a sign on the sidelines that read "please don't fine me", and he waved it during a game. There's a rule against that, and he broke that rule. Would you say that he cheated? The NFL hit him with a huge fine. Does that fine prove that he cheated?While the literal definition of "cheat" is "to break the rules", I think everyone here automatically makes a key distinction between breaking the rules, and breaking the rules in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Chad Ochocinco broke the rules, but I don't think anyone here would say he was a cheater. If he got fined during a celebration and the Bengals won, nobody would say "man, put an asterisk on that win, because Ochocinco cheated". That's nonsense. Same principal. Pat Bowlen couldn't honor his financial obligations, so he deferred compensation on existing contracts. No new players were signed above and beyond the cap as a result. The NFL conducted an investigation and said that the Broncos were not trying to secretly gain a competitive advantage over the rest of the league. They even used the word "plainly". If we're going to start looking up definitions, let's start there. Plain- Obvious to the mind, evident. It was, in the words of the NFL, obvious that, while the Broncos did indeed break a rule, they did not do so with the intention of gaining an advantage on the field.

Do you have the same opinion about the Patriots Spygate issue?Irrelevant actually.

It's okay SSOG.

You got away with it relatively unscathed. Heck only a very small minority of NFL fans are even aware that the Broncos were caught cheating. Be proud of your Super Bowls because no one cares if you cheated to get them.

It's easy to acknowledge: The Broncos cheated, they won Super Bowls, they received a slap on the wrist.

I won't even ask you to state it but just acknowledge it in your heart it for what it is, cheating.

Half of the Steelers in the 70's used steroids so should we take away those 4 superbowl victories

 

[Chaka]

What about the fine and draft pick thing SSOG?

Was that because they legitimately deferred payment to a couple of players?

Look, they cheated and got away with it relatively unscathed. Good for them. I wish my team was able to accomplish something like that. I'll take the SB wins.

They didn't cheat, they broke the rules. You call it semantics, I call it a meaningful distinction. For instance, Chad Ochocinco once kept a sign on the sidelines that read "please don't fine me", and he waved it during a game. There's a rule against that, and he broke that rule. Would you say that he cheated? The NFL hit him with a huge fine. Does that fine prove that he cheated?While the literal definition of "cheat" is "to break the rules", I think everyone here automatically makes a key distinction between breaking the rules, and breaking the rules in an effort to gain a competitive advantage. Chad Ochocinco broke the rules, but I don't think anyone here would say he was a cheater. If he got fined during a celebration and the Bengals won, nobody would say "man, put an asterisk on that win, because Ochocinco cheated". That's nonsense. Same principal. Pat Bowlen couldn't honor his financial obligations, so he deferred compensation on existing contracts. No new players were signed above and beyond the cap as a result. The NFL conducted an investigation and said that the Broncos were not trying to secretly gain a competitive advantage over the rest of the league. They even used the word "plainly". If we're going to start looking up definitions, let's start there. Plain- Obvious to the mind, evident. It was, in the words of the NFL, obvious that, while the Broncos did indeed break a rule, they did not do so with the intention of gaining an advantage on the field.

Do you have the same opinion about the Patriots Spygate issue?Irrelevant actually.

It's okay SSOG.

You got away with it relatively unscathed. Heck only a very small minority of NFL fans are even aware that the Broncos were caught cheating. Be proud of your Super Bowls because no one cares if you cheated to get them.

It's easy to acknowledge: The Broncos cheated, they won Super Bowls, they received a slap on the wrist.

I won't even ask you to state it but just acknowledge it in your heart it for what it is, cheating.

Half of the Steelers in the 70's used steroids so should we take away those 4 superbowl victories

1) No one is advocating taking away trophies, Broncos, Patriots or otherwise.2) Were steroids illegal in the NFL in the 70s? Serious question.

3) Wasn't half the league on steroids in the 70s (and 80s & 90s & up to today)?

You ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'.

I'm just saying recognize that the Broncos cheated successfully and during the same period happened to win two Super Bowls that impact the way people view Elway's career.

Nothing wrong with admitting the truth.

 

[CalBear]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.

Then he would promptly tell your frachise that he would NEVER play for your sorry orginization and refuse to ever put on your uniform and force his way out of town.Meanwhile you would be watching Joe Montana elevate another franchise and win Super Bowl after Super Bowl, including those that have John Elway QBing against Joe.

During which time, your franchise would have to leave its town... wouldnt win double digit games for another 19 years and only escape the abyss because Peyton Manning landed in your laps for being the worst team in the league.

You mean like Montana elevated the Chiefs?

Yes, exactly like when Montana at age 37 went to a team with the #25 offense in the league and turned them into a top-5 offense in 2 years, going 17-8 as a starter and making the playoffs both years (including the AFC championship game).

 

[Polar Dude]

Half of the Steelers in the 70's used steroids so should we take away those 4 superbowl victories

How much were they fined? How many draft picks did they have to give up?

 

[Choke]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.

Then he would promptly tell your frachise that he would NEVER play for your sorry orginization and refuse to ever put on your uniform and force his way out of town.Meanwhile you would be watching Joe Montana elevate another franchise and win Super Bowl after Super Bowl, including those that have John Elway QBing against Joe.

During which time, your franchise would have to leave its town... wouldnt win double digit games for another 19 years and only escape the abyss because Peyton Manning landed in your laps for being the worst team in the league.

You mean like Montana elevated the Chiefs?

Yes, exactly like when Montana at age 37 went to a team with the #25 offense in the league and turned them into a top-5 offense in 2 years, going 17-8 as a starter and making the playoffs both years (including the AFC championship game).

 

[Dr. Malo]

This article kinda sums it up:

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=205

Only QB to start in 5 super bowls. That is huge.

 

[Tau837]

I've been watching NFL football for 30 years. If I had to choose one player to start a franchise with (of all the greats I've seen), that player would be John Elway.

Then he would promptly tell your frachise that he would NEVER play for your sorry orginization and refuse to ever put on your uniform and force his way out of town.Meanwhile you would be watching Joe Montana elevate another franchise and win Super Bowl after Super Bowl, including those that have John Elway QBing against Joe.

During which time, your franchise would have to leave its town... wouldnt win double digit games for another 19 years and only escape the abyss because Peyton Manning landed in your laps for being the worst team in the league.

You mean like Montana elevated the Chiefs?

Yes, exactly like when Montana at age 37 went to a team with the #25 offense in the league and turned them into a top-5 offense in 2 years, going 17-8 as a starter and making the playoffs both years (including the AFC championship game).

 

[shredhead]

I am actually a huge fan of Elway's talent and where he ranks among the all time greats but doesn't the fact that the Broncos cheated (the salary cap if you must define it) impact the legacy of Elway?

No!

 

[Chaka]

I am actually a huge fan of Elway's talent and where he ranks among the all time greats but doesn't the fact that the Broncos cheated (the salary cap if you must define it) impact the legacy of Elway?

No!

So Brady and Elway are good then.Roger.

 

[Adebisi]

This article kinda sums it up:

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=205

Only QB to start in 5 super bowls. That is huge.

Another record that Brady will own before he's done.

 

[SSOG]

This article kinda sums it up:

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=205

Only QB to start in 5 super bowls. That is huge.

Another record that Brady will own before he's done.

What did your mama say about counting chickens? After Brady had 2 SBMVP trophies in his first 3 seasons, people thought it was a foregone conclusion that he'd match and eventually exceed Joe Montana's record 3 SBMVPs. It's been seven years and Brady's still stuck at 2.

 

[Chaka]

This article kinda sums it up:

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=205

Only QB to start in 5 super bowls. That is huge.

Another record that Brady will own before he's done.

What did your mama say about counting chickens? After Brady had 2 SBMVP trophies in his first 3 seasons, people thought it was a foregone conclusion that he'd match and eventually exceed Joe Montana's record 3 SBMVPs. It's been seven years and Brady's still stuck at 2.

That's probably because he stopped cheating.How do I reach these keeeds?

 

[massraider]

I doubt there was a QB that had more talent than Elway-ever. Ran like a deer, probably strongest arm ever, he had no physical limitations on the field, and he was a natural leader.

I probably don't put him top 3 just because he made a lot of mistakes, passes he shouldn't have made, but did so because he believed he could make the throw. Similar to Favre. Sure, Elway had more 4th quarter comebacks than anyone, but they wouldn't have needed so many if he hadn't thrown two bonehead INTs in the first half, you know?

It's a small distinction, as I would probably have Elway top 5, but I would have taken, at their prime, Montana, Marino, and Steve Young over Elway. Elway and Favre are probably right there in my top 5. Once he got Terrell Davis and the ZBS going in Denver, that offense seemed pretty much unstoppable. Almost as unstoppable as Warner's Rams, and Young's 49ers.

But even before then, Elway always had good talent around him. He didn't have Montana or Young's 49er teammates, but the Dan Reeves Broncos were well-coached, and talented. Saying they weren't is revisionist history, and really not even worthy of an argument. You want to make an argument that a QB was surrounded by lesser talent, bring up Marino.