John McCain (1 Viewer)

[zoonation]

“Blood soaked legacy”.  Omg. Get a grip people.  

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Politeness after death is reserved for your aunt that had a drinking problem.  Not a politician whose decisions impacted hundreds of thousands of people.  And whose bloodsoaked legacy is being whitewashed in the most decrepit way.  

Furthermore, an honest conversation about respect for the dead includes the people who died as a direct result of his work in office.  It's out of respect and dignity for the dead that we don't disappear their lives just to honor his.  

Be honest. You’re wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt right now.

 

[squistion]

Politeness after death is reserved for your aunt that had a drinking problem.  Not a politician whose decisions impacted hundreds of thousands of people.  And whose bloodsoaked legacy is being whitewashed in the most decrepit way.  .  

Oh, if we still had signature lines...

 

[ren hoek]

An example of some of the hundreds of thousands of war crimes carried out in Vietnam:

https://imgur.com/a/ebavkYK

https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Anything-That-Moves-American/dp/1250045061

 

[ren hoek]

@adamjohnsonnyc

so much of the debate around whether it’s appropriate to wage meaningful criticism of McCain revolve around whether one views Vietnam and Iraq and Saudi’s siege of Yemen as criminal, clearly immoral acts or simply “mistakes” like slipping on a banana peel.

some liberals hand wave away McCain’s “mistakes” or “troubling parts of his legacy” then move on to vomit out safe, careerist platitudes about service or some such. Those who view wars of aggression as clear immoral acts feel the need to draw a clear moral distinction.

For those who view US wars in moral terms (rather than a game or just a difference of opinion between two buddies sharing scotch in Congress) these hagiographies are offensive, & erase those who’ve suffered as result of McCain’s war-mongering. Its a totally moral & fair position.

this framing is incomprehensible to those who are, at best, indifferent to US violence overseas or, at worst, animated by careerism and a gamesmanship view of politics. They simply dont have the moral grammar to understand principled objection so they dismiss it as edgelord-ism.

It’s a reasonable human instinct to not want to say bad things about people who just passed, but major historical figures arent your friends grandmother, they carry mountains of ideological baggage & sanctifying them is an inherently political act & it’s childish to act otherwise

 

[ren hoek]

Be honest. You’re wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt right now.

Nope.  Just a common undershirt.  

 

[ren hoek]

How to Feel About John McCain

 

[James Daulton]

How to Feel About John McCain

So I guess you feel the same way about Trump since he hasn't gotten us out of overseas wars and since he "destroyed ISIS" so completely which involved a lot of killing.

And I guess you feel the same way about Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt everyone who was in charge of the US during times of war.

SAD

 

[The General]

@adamjohnsonnyc

so much of the debate around whether it’s appropriate to wage meaningful criticism of McCain revolve around whether one views Vietnam and Iraq and Saudi’s siege of Yemen as criminal, clearly immoral acts or simply “mistakes” like slipping on a banana peel.

some liberals hand wave away McCain’s “mistakes” or “troubling parts of his legacy” then move on to vomit out safe, careerist platitudes about service or some such. Those who view wars of aggression as clear immoral acts feel the need to draw a clear moral distinction.

For those who view US wars in moral terms (rather than a game or just a difference of opinion between two buddies sharing scotch in Congress) these hagiographies are offensive, & erase those who’ve suffered as result of McCain’s war-mongering. Its a totally moral & fair position.

this framing is incomprehensible to those who are, at best, indifferent to US violence overseas or, at worst, animated by careerism and a gamesmanship view of politics. They simply dont have the moral grammar to understand principled objection so they dismiss it as edgelord-ism.

It’s a reasonable human instinct to not want to say bad things about people who just passed, but major historical figures arent your friends grandmother, they carry mountains of ideological baggage & sanctifying them is an inherently political act & it’s childish to act otherwise

This isn’t a liberal thing.

The only thing Trump begrudging said after he was forced to was that he respected McCain’s military service and work to make the military stronger.

 

[The General]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

Look at me funerals are the worst. Guy is a jerk.

 

[toshiba]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

Look at me funerals are the worst. Guy is a jerk.

? I like those funerals where you don't talk about the person who's passed. ?

 

[Dedfin]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

Joe loves posts like this. Be nice to Bozeman, gents.

 

[The General]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

Those damn attention craving POWs. Hate those guys.

 

[Dedfin]

So I guess you feel the same way about Trump since he hasn't gotten us out of overseas wars and since he "destroyed ISIS" so completely which involved a lot of killing.

And I guess you feel the same way about Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt everyone who was in charge of the US during times of war.

SAD

Remember during the campaign then Trump explicitly said he wanted to go after civilizans if they were related to terrorists? Ren loved Trump. Remember about 4 days after Trump was inaugurated, he personally authorized a mission to kill some terrorists in Yemen? And some civilians including children died? Ren still supported Trump. Remember when Trump STILL laments not killing civiliians? Ren still is in full defense mode of Trump. His anti-war, anti-military industrial complex shtick is nothing but veneer.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-reiterates-desire-to-murder-terrorists-families-a6912496.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/world/middleeast/donald-trump-yemen-commando-raid-questions.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cia-drone-strike-terrorist-families-2018-4

Yep, McCain was part of the military industrial complex. No one here liked that. But it's also weird that Ren doesn't like it, considering his affinity to Trump.

 

[whoknew]

An example of some of the hundreds of thousands of war crimes carried out in Vietnam:

https://imgur.com/a/ebavkYK

https://www.amazon.com/Kill-Anything-That-Moves-American/dp/1250045061

What does this post have to do with John McCain? Are you alleging McCain committed war crimes in Vietnam?

 

[The General]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

Only another day or 2 and we can get back to all Donald’s great tweets about how he is mistreated and witch hunts.

 

[ren hoek]

So I guess you feel the same way about Trump since he hasn't gotten us out of overseas wars and since he "destroyed ISIS" so completely which involved a lot of killing.

And I guess you feel the same way about Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt everyone who was in charge of the US during times of war.

SAD

Yep, McCain was part of the military industrial complex. No one here liked that. But it's also weird that Ren doesn't like it, considering his affinity to Trump.

This is a total strawmeme.  I've been critical of Trump for this before.  He never waxed eternal about death and destruction the way McCain did, but I don't absolve him for his role in the killing since he took office.  The difference is I won't have to slog through a week of moral posturing about what a Great American Hero and Human Rights Champion Trump is like I do with McCain.   

And yes, it seems almost everyone here had no problem conflating John's record of supporting mass murder with how he heroically "served his country for 60 years".  Everyone here liked that.  John McCain 'made some mistakes' of course, and they 'might not have agreed with him' all the time, but they never 'doubted his patriotism' or 'loyalty to country' like they do with Trump.  John McCain is a 'True American Hero', the sort of national treasure you can build out of the mountains of dead bodies he created.  Horrible.  

 

[ShamrockPride]

This is a total strawmeme.  I've been critical of Trump for this before.  He never waxed eternal about death and destruction the way McCain did, but I don't absolve him for his role in the killing since he took office.  The difference is I won't have to slog through a week of moral posturing about what a Great American Hero and Human Rights Champion Trump is like I do with McCain.   

And yes, it seems almost everyone here had no problem conflating John's record of supporting mass murder with how he heroically "served his country for 60 years".  Everyone here liked that.  John McCain 'made some mistakes' of course, and they 'might not have agreed with him' all the time, but they never 'doubted his patriotism' or 'loyalty to country' like they do with Trump.  John McCain is a 'True American Hero', the sort of national treasure you can build out of the mountains of dead bodies he created.  Horrible.  

You're wasting your energy dude. They don't get it. Either that, or they're too self righteous to acknowledge their own hypocrisy.

 

[honky kong]

Pretty amazing watching the bile some conservatives are spewing over McCain today.

The cult's gotta cult.

 

[James Daulton]

This is a total strawmeme.  I've been critical of Trump for this before.  He never waxed eternal about death and destruction the way McCain did, but I don't absolve him for his role in the killing since he took office.  The difference is I won't have to slog through a week of moral posturing about what a Great American Hero and Human Rights Champion Trump is like I do with McCain.   

And yes, it seems almost everyone here had no problem conflating John's record of supporting mass murder with how he heroically "served his country for 60 years".  Everyone here liked that.  John McCain 'made some mistakes' of course, and they 'might not have agreed with him' all the time, but they never 'doubted his patriotism' or 'loyalty to country' like they do with Trump.  John McCain is a 'True American Hero', the sort of national treasure you can build out of the mountains of dead bodies he created.  Horrible.  

Then who do you not have contempt for in government? Almost  the entire congress voted for the gulf wars and continuing other wars.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Then who do you not have contempt for in government? Almost  the entire congress voted for the gulf wars and continuing other wars.

Trump

 

[Dedfin]

Then who do you not have contempt for in government? Almost  the entire congress voted for the gulf wars and continuing other wars.

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/11/barbara-lees-lone-vote-on-sept-14-2001-was-as-prescient-as-it-was-brave-and-heroic/

Ohh look, ren's friend Glenn Greenwald on Barbara Lee (who was outspoken against the AUMF for GWOT). I'm genuinely curious to know Ren's opinion on Barbara Lee. He slags Ds with great alacrity, so I'm not expecting much.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

Longer look at me funeral...mccain or aretha

 

[jon_mx]

Don’t thank me.  Thank my alcoholic and abusive grandfather, may he burn in Hell. 

There is also your alias namesake who was a visionary and largely responsible for the US auto industry.   Highly regarded by most for his great accimplishments.  But his book An International Jew was the inspiration for Mein Kampt to the point some sections are basically plagerized from it.  

 

[timschochet]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

The only thing I will be happy never to hear again is the sheer nastiness and vitriol that John McCain’s name has produced from Trump supporters such as yourself. It’s been absolutely ugly and despicable IMO, a shameful moment for this country (like so much of the Trump era.) 

 

[The General]

You're wasting your energy dude. They don't get it. Either that, or they're too self righteous to acknowledge their own hypocrisy.

If you don’t honor his guy who then? Crazy that this is an argument now.

 

[toshiba]

Regardless of how anyone felt about McCain before his death this ridiculously long look at me funeral week+ is going to leave a lot of people happy to never hear his name again.

Dude has gotten more attention than any POW in history and most of the people who actually won a presidential election.

The only thing I will be happy never to hear again is the sheer nastiness and vitriol that John McCain’s name has produced from Trump supporters such as yourself. It’s been absolutely ugly and despicable IMO, a shameful moment for this country (like so much of the Trump era.) 

Deplorable is the word you’re looking for.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Either trash these people in death like you do in their life, or keep your mouth shut after they pass.

That's not how funerals work.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

An International Jew was the inspiration for Mein Kampt to the point some sections are basically plagerized from it.  

Where did you get this?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You're wasting your energy dude. They don't get it. Either that, or they're too self righteous to acknowledge their own hypocrisy.

I guess I think of you as being a pretty patriotic, conservative poster, so I guess I'd be surprised if you'd agree with Ren's claim that America is a criminal nation any more than anyone else here.

 

[AAABatteries]

Those damn attention craving POWs. Hate those guys.

Used to be Republicans would have called a military man who was a POW, fought for his country and then served the country in the Senate a hero.  Now their hero is a racist who skipped out on the war, cheated on his wife with a porn star and spends all day lying on social media.  

 

[jon_mx]

Where did you get this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/the-dark-legacy-of-henry-fords-anti-semitism-commentary/2014/10/10/c95b7df2-509d-11e4-877c-335b53ffe736_story.html?utm_term=.fb2fc310dff9

“You can tell Herr Ford that I am a great admirer of his,” Hitler said. “I shall do my best to put his theories into practice in Germany. ... I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration.”

http://spartacus-educational.com/GERmein.htm

While in Landsberg History read a lot of books. Most of these dealt with German history and political philosophy. Later he was to describe his spell in prison as a "free education at the state's expense." One writer who influenced Hitler while in prison was Henry Ford, the American car-manufacturer. Hitler read Ford's autobiography, My Life and Work, and a book of his called The International Jew. In the latter Ford claimed that there was a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world......

" James Pool, the author of Who Financed Hitler: The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power (1979) has pointed out: Not only did Hitler specifically praise Henry Ford in Mein Kampf, but many of Hitler's ideas were also a direct reflection of Ford's racist philosophy. There is a great similarity between The International Jew and Hitler's Mein Kampf, and some passages are so identical that it has been said Hitler copies directly from Ford's publication

 

[squistion]

Where did you get this?

Better question, even if it is true, what the hell does the inspiration for Mein Kampt have to do with a thread about John McCain?

Edited to add after seeing the last post, it appears this is a thinly disguised attempt to hijack the thread.

 

[toshiba]

Better question, even if it is true, what the hell does the inspiration for Mein Kampt have to do with a thread about John McCain?

@jon_mx is just slinging mud, hoping something sticks.

 

[Mile High]

Used to be Republicans would have called a military man who was a POW, fought for his country and then served the country in the Senate a hero.  Now their hero is a racist who skipped out on the war, cheated on his wife with a porn star and spends all day lying on social media.  

"Build that wall,build that wall,build that wall."

 

[jon_mx]

Better question, even if it is true, what the hell does the inspiration for Mein Kampt have to do with a thread about John McCain?

We were talking about how and why people say good things at funerals even though there might be things which they did which are considered bad and I was pointing out an example which was kind of funny since 'Henry Ford' was posting about it  It is called discussion.  Sorry, not everyone just regurgitates tweets.

 

[timschochet]

Better question, even if it is true, what the hell does the inspiration for Mein Kampt have to do with a thread about John McCain?

Edited to add after seeing the last post, it appears this is a thinly disguised attempt to hijack the thread.

As weird as it is, I can actually make a connection between John McCain and Mein Kampf: 

1. Alan Cranston and John McCain were two members of the “Keating 5” scandal. 

2. Before Alan Cranston became a senator from California, he began his career as the American translator of Mein Kampf. 

That should be enough for Q fans to run with, right? 

 

[jon_mx]

@jon_mx is just slinging mud, hoping something sticks.

Slinging mud at who?  

 

[ren hoek]

If you don’t honor his guy who then? Crazy that this is an argument now.

Barbara Lee was actually one of the first people that came to mind as a noble congresswoman.  There's been a bunch of people I would consider honorable members of Congress.  Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Rand, Tulsi Gabbard.  Were all of them perfect all the time?  No, of course not.  But they were a damn sight better than Kissingeresque war criminals like John McCain.  

It doesn't matter what I say, or what I've said before.  Dedfin has already made up his mind.  After everything, McCain was an honorable man, and the only possible explanation anyone could think otherwise is some sort of affinity for Trump.  But Trump didn't 'start the fire' as it were.  

 

[toshiba]

@jon_mx is just slinging mud, hoping something sticks.

Slinging mud at who?  

In this thread at general, to muck it up with deplorable antics.

But I don't need to explain this to you.

 

[jon_mx]

Oh how quickly I forget this is the political forum.  Sorry, thought people might want to discuss ideas and concepts.   But some people can't resist personal attacks on other posters.  Get the stick out of your asses.  

 

[The General]

Barbara Lee was actually one of the first people that came to mind as a noble congresswoman.  There's been a bunch of people I would consider honorable members of Congress.  Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Rand, Tulsi Gabbard.  Were all of them perfect all the time?  No, of course not.  But they were a damn sight better than Kissingeresque war criminals like John McCain.  

It doesn't matter what I say, or what I've said before.  Dedfin has already made up his mind.  After everything, McCain was an honorable man, and the only possible explanation anyone could think otherwise is some sort of affinity for Trump.  But Trump didn't 'start the fire' as it were.  

So how about when those people die of say brain cancer while serving in Congress that we all tip our hats. 

Not really sure if you are a Trump guy or not. Haven’t really followed it closely or anything. In regards to trump and McCain he doesn’t dislike him for the things you do - he only does because he got nailed for his gross comments about liking his heros to not be captured and then because McCain did his job voting down the repeal.  He hates him now because he is getting praise and respect the he knows he will never receive.

 

[toshiba]

Oh how quickly I forget this is the political forum.  Sorry, thought people might want to discuss ideas and concepts.   But some people can't resist personal attacks on other posters.  Get the stick out of your asses.  

Nice try, not a personal attack. Pointing out that it is deplorable to have the conversation you are having in a thread dedicated to a man who died just a week ago.

I don’t know you at all, but what I do know is that many of these posts like you have been a part of this thread is deplorable. I don’t know you at all, but what I do know is that many of these posts like you have been a part of in this thread are deplorable.

 

[jon_mx]

If you don’t honor his guy who then? Crazy that this is an argument now.

Nobody is worthy of honoring if you are going to judge by faults.  That is the whole point.   You reflect on people's accomplishments and how they improved the world.  Blaming McCain somehow for wars or whatever is silly. 

 

[jon_mx]

Nice try, not a personal attack. Pointing out that it is deplorable to have the conversation you are having in a thread dedicated to as man who died just a week ago.

I don’t know you at all, but what I do know is that many of these coast like you have been a part of this thread is deplorable. I don’t know you at all, but what I do know is that many of these posts like you have been a part of in this thread are deplorable.

Just shut up.  You irk always have to make things personal. I don't get it.  

 

[toshiba]

Just shut up.  You irk always have to make things personal. I don't get it.  

Lmao, yes death is personal, and no I won't shut up!

 

[The General]

Nobody is worthy of honoring if you are going to judge by faults.  That is the whole point.   You reflect on people's accomplishments and how they improved the world.  Blaming McCain somehow for wars or whatever is silly. 

Agreed it’s pretty simple.

This is one of those things were you think everyone is aligned and then you get Trump. It’s amazing to me how awful the guy is on everything. 

 

[toshiba]

Nobody is worthy of honoring if you are going to judge by faults.  That is the whole point.   You reflect on people's accomplishments and how they improved the world.  Blaming McCain somehow for wars or whatever is silly. 

Agreed it’s pretty simple.

This is one of those things were you think everyone is aligned and then you get Trump. It’s amazing to me how awful the guy is on everything. 

Exactly, It’s amazing that you just can’t have a thread discussing somebody who died recently without all of the deplorable posts of some people.

 

[sho nuff]

Oh how quickly I forget this is the political forum.  Sorry, thought people might want to discuss ideas and concepts.   But some people can't resist personal attacks on other posters.  Get the stick out of your asses.  

Just shut up.  You irk always have to make things personal. I don't get it.  

You post these two things then blame another “ilk”.  Nobody is buying the victim schtick.

 

[The Football Freak]

Used to be Republicans would have called a military man who was a POW, fought for his country and then served the country in the Senate a hero.  Now their hero is a racist who skipped out on the war, cheated on his wife with a porn star and spends all day lying on social media.  

We’re in the Upside Down.