Jonathan Stewart Dynasty Value (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

Hold/buy. He is a top 10 RB in the league and his day will come eventually. Williams is 29 years old and I don't think his contract is guaranteed after this season.

While this is true, I doubt it means he will be going anywhere. Details on his contract from Rotoworld:

7/29/2011: Signed a five-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $21 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus and $5 million of Williams' second-year base salary. 2012: $5.25 million, 2013: $4.75 million, 2014: $5.75 million, 2015: $6.75 million, 2016: Free Agent

I assume the $16M signing bonus is prorated at $3.2M per year from a cap perspective. If they cut him after this season, that means $9.6M still has to hit the cap. Meanwhile, he only stands to make $4.75M next season. I don't see them cutting him in that scenario. Even in 2014, that means a $6.4M cap hit to cut him vs. paying him $5.75M to play.If someone knows differently, please correct me.

Aside from that, as long as he is productive, I suspect it's more likely he would restructure to stay than get cut. He and Stewart are an effective combo for Carolina, and they are best friends. And both are getting paid very well. I don't see incentive for any parties here to change the approach.

I own Williams in both of my dynasty leagues, and I own Stewart in one of them. Believe me, I hope I'm wrong about this.

As discussed in the dynasty thread, this is actually incorrect. The bonus proration of $3.2MM is added to his current salary, so for 2013 his number (against the cap) is $7.95MM. To cut/trade him would cost the Panthers $9.6MM, or $1.55MM more than they're already on the hook for. Plus the bonus money is spent; the annual salaries are actual $$ they could allocate elsewhere.I think a trade is a real possibility. As someone pointed out above, the new team wouldn't be on the hook for the salary proration, making DW a 4 year/$21MM contract, or very reasonable for a player of his level. If Carolina could "buy" a 3rd or 4th round draft pick for an extra $1.55MM against the cap, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see that happen.

I hope you're right. Hurney being fired seems to make this a more realistic possibility.

 

[cstu]

JStew, Williams, and the Panthers in general are STUCK.

Eh, if you are Stewart and Williams, you are getting paid a ton of money for not much work. Compared to the beating other RBs making similar money take, their working lives are a picnic.

Unless they are competitive people who want the ball in their hands and are desperate to win - then they are probably both miserable.

Stewart re-signed while knowing that DeAngelo was re-signed, Tolbert was signed, and Cam was around long-term. I find it pretty unlikely that he's a guy who's desperate to get the ball in his hands, so long as he's being paid like a guy who is.

It's tough to blame him for signing the deal considering he got the 3rd most guaranteed money for a RB in the league. I'm sure he was also aware that with Williams being 29 it won't be long until he's the full-time starter, possibility as soon as next year if Williams is cut.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

just going by FBG socring, he is currently RB50, I had to keep scrolling down and down to find him, has 1 top 11 finish in 2009. other than that he's in the 24-35 range.

Sell him to your Stewart lover in your league even if its selling low. I guess this is the 1 guy where talent couldnt over come situation. If Riveria is there past this season Tolbert will still be cutting into his work.

 

[FDC]

I'm a bit surprised this isn't getting more attention in fantasy circles

Panther's beat writer Jonathan Jones twitter yesterday:

@jjones9

We asked Rivera about why DeAngelo Williams played only five snaps yesterday while Stewart got the bulk of carries...

Rivera: What we tried to do is see if we could get a rhythm with one guy. We came with a specific group, and Jonathan was the guy.

I asked him if that's a philosophy he's implemented before as a head coach, and he said "there's some things changing"

Seems to be a product of the self-scouting during the bye week. So how Carolina's backfield personnel once operated may be no more

"If a decision has to be made involving the football team and players, it will all stop with me." -Rivera on where the buck stops

 

[packersfan]

@jjones9We asked Rivera about why DeAngelo Williams played only five snaps yesterday while Stewart got the bulk of carries...Rivera: What we tried to do is see if we could get a rhythm with one guy. We came with a specific group, and Jonathan was the guy.I asked him if that's a philosophy he's implemented before as a head coach, and he said "there's some things changing"

This is yet another reason why I think Stewart's a hold. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell watching him being so poorly utilized but if Williams has been demoted (which The Charlotte Observer suggested may be happening), Stewart's touches could start to go up.

 

[FDC]

^^ Stewart also started vs Dallas after a bye week in which the staff talked non stop about change. DWill played a total of 5 snaps, basically only when JStew needed a breather.

 

[Ghost Rider]

46 yards on 13 touches isn't exactly setting the world on fire. I could see them trying the same thing again this week, but with DeAngelo. In other words, still a trainwreck in Carolina.

 

[Banger]

Get in a rhythm? 10 carries is a rhythm? 10 carries is a joke for a back as good as Stewart in a game where you are within a td the whole game (so you don't have to be one dimensional) is completely unacceptable. If they want to help Cam and the offense, they need to take things off his shoulders because he's not making the right decisions right now. Just drop back and hand the damn ball off like every other team in the league as opposed to some kind of option play where the RB has to focus on the QB and guess whether he's going to get the ball as opposed to getting the ball handed to him and reading where he needs to go.

It's ridiculous that it's taken this long and a GM to be fired for this to be noticed. Hell ya there needs to be changes and if the offense doesn't change and quick you are next Mr. Rivera.

 

[JFS171]

Unfortunately that was my assessment as well. While I dispute the playcalling, and Stewart should have scored on a pass in the flat where he was wide open and Cam made a poor throw, I don't feel secure that they'll continue this approach, especially after losing.

Honestly the split touches was never the "problem" with either DW or Stewart. When this team was rolling with its running game, the "lead back" getting 20 carries and the "backup" getting 15 was highly productive. The problem is the playcalling.

Point being, if you told me Stewart had a guaranteed 15 carries per week, plus a handful of receptions, I'd be all in on the guy, trusting his talent to produce numbers. Unfortunately with this team, and under this regime, that doesn't appear likely.

Still trying to buy in dynasty (I don't own him anywhere), but I'm not going to pay top dollar.

 

[JFS171]

10 carries for a back as good as Stewart in a game where you are within a td the whole game (so you don't have to be one dimensional) is completely unacceptable. If they want to help Cam and the offense, they need to take things off his shoulders because he's not making the right decisions right now. Just drop back and hand the damn ball off as opposed to some kind of option play where the RB has to focus on the QB and guess whether he's going to get the ball as opposed to getting the ball handed to him and reading where he needs to go.

I completely agree with this... I never played RB, or football for that matter, so I have no personal experience to draw on here. But, I can't imagine a designed running play where you know you're getting the ball, know you need to read your blocks, etc VS. not knowing whether the QB is going to give it to you or keep it himself HAS to make a difference.

 

[packersfan]

10 carries for a back as good as Stewart in a game where you are within a td the whole game (so you don't have to be one dimensional) is completely unacceptable. If they want to help Cam and the offense, they need to take things off his shoulders because he's not making the right decisions right now. Just drop back and hand the damn ball off as opposed to some kind of option play where the RB has to focus on the QB and guess whether he's going to get the ball as opposed to getting the ball handed to him and reading where he needs to go.

I completely agree with this... I never played RB, or football for that matter, so I have no personal experience to draw on here. But, I can't imagine a designed running play where you know you're getting the ball, know you need to read your blocks, etc VS. not knowing whether the QB is going to give it to you or keep it himself HAS to make a difference.

I recall Willis McGahee last season talking about how uncomfortable he was when Tebow took over as the QB because it was a major adjustment to the read option.

 

[FDC]

It might not work but I have to think that Rivera forces Chud to try an offensive game plan with normal run plays on early downs.

 

[Banger]

@jjones9We asked Rivera about why DeAngelo Williams played only five snaps yesterday while Stewart got the bulk of carries...Rivera: What we tried to do is see if we could get a rhythm with one guy. We came with a specific group, and Jonathan was the guy.I asked him if that's a philosophy he's implemented before as a head coach, and he said "there's some things changing"

This is yet another reason why I think Stewart's a hold. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell watching him being so poorly utilized but if Williams has been demoted (which The Charlotte Observer suggested may be happening), Stewart's touches could start to go up.

if you can get him for peanuts I'd buy him. He's been near droppable so he could likely be a throw in.

 

[packersfan]

@jjones9We asked Rivera about why DeAngelo Williams played only five snaps yesterday while Stewart got the bulk of carries...Rivera: What we tried to do is see if we could get a rhythm with one guy. We came with a specific group, and Jonathan was the guy.I asked him if that's a philosophy he's implemented before as a head coach, and he said "there's some things changing"

This is yet another reason why I think Stewart's a hold. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell watching him being so poorly utilized but if Williams has been demoted (which The Charlotte Observer suggested may be happening), Stewart's touches could start to go up.

if you can get him for peanuts I'd buy him. He's been near droppable so he could likely be a throw in.

I agree his value is very low but things change quickly in this game and Stewart is very talented. If you're in a league with tight roster limits or a very small league then dropping him is a viable option. But if you have the roster space I'd definitely be holding or trying to get him for cheap. Two weeks ago, Rashad Jennings had no value and was on a ton of Waiver Wires. Now he could be locked into 20+ touches per week the rest of the season. Even though he's on a terrible team that will give him value. If the Panthers are indeed moving away from Williams and more toward Stewart, that will give Stewart more value moving forward even though the offense is a mess and Tolbert remains in the mix.

 

[Banger]

@jjones9We asked Rivera about why DeAngelo Williams played only five snaps yesterday while Stewart got the bulk of carries...Rivera: What we tried to do is see if we could get a rhythm with one guy. We came with a specific group, and Jonathan was the guy.I asked him if that's a philosophy he's implemented before as a head coach, and he said "there's some things changing"

This is yet another reason why I think Stewart's a hold. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell watching him being so poorly utilized but if Williams has been demoted (which The Charlotte Observer suggested may be happening), Stewart's touches could start to go up.

if you can get him for peanuts I'd buy him. He's been near droppable so he could likely be a throw in.

I agree his value is very low but things change quickly in this game and Stewart is very talented. If you're in a league with tight roster limits or a very small league then dropping him is a viable option. But if you have the roster space I'd definitely be holding or trying to get him for cheap. Two weeks ago, Rashad Jennings had no value and was on a ton of Waiver Wires. Now he could be locked into 20+ touches per week the rest of the season. Even though he's on a terrible team that will give him value. If the Panthers are indeed moving away from Williams and more toward Stewart, that will give Stewart more value moving forward even though the offense is a mess and Tolbert remains in the mix.

unfortunately just moving away from Williams and giving it all to Stewart means almost nothing if we're talking a pie of 12 carries. There needs to be a shift of not only the distribution between the RBs but a fundamental change on the offense. Rivera isn't going to come out and detail his game plan but the fact that he's talking about changes on the offense and his GM got fired this week indicates some bigger changes may be in the cards. For the most expensive backfield, including Cam they are the 13th best rushing offense...taking him out of the equation Williams ranks 38th among rbs with 177 yards (3.5 ypc) and Stewart has 142 yards (4.1 ypc). 142 yards!! He's behind Draughn, Felix Jones, Battle and a host of other complete scrubs. Dwyer almost got last game what Stewart has all year...it's ridiculous.

 

[packersfan]

unfortunately just moving away from Williams and giving it all to Stewart means almost nothing if we're talking a pie of 12 carries.

I agree and I don't deny the risk involved. Holding or Buying Low on Stewart only works if you're banking on a radical shift in approach which the Panthers thus far have shown no indication they are prepared or willing to make. I'd like to believe common sense will prevail here but I completely agree that may not be the wisest approach to take given what we've seen from this coaching staff so far.

 

[FDC]

unfortunately just moving away from Williams and giving it all to Stewart means almost nothing if we're talking a pie of 12 carries.

I agree and I don't deny the risk involved. Holding or Buying Low on Stewart only works if you're banking on a radical shift in approach which the Panthers thus far have shown no indication they are prepared or willing to make. I'd like to believe common sense will prevail here but I completely agree that may not be the wisest approach to take given what we've seen from this coaching staff so far.

Rivera is a defensive minded coach and the defense has actually played a lot better in recent weeks. Its not a stretch to think Rivera will push for a more run friendly offense.

 

[JFS171]

Stewart has 142 yards (4.1 ypc). 142 yards!! He's behind Draughn, Felix Jones, Battle and a host of other complete scrubs. Dwyer almost got last game what Stewart has all year...it's ridiculous.

Points to make when trying to buy Stewart...Again, we're talking about dynasty leagues. I wouldn't be pushing for Stewart in a redraft, but in a Dynasty, I doubt his value ever gets lower.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

10 carries for a back as good as Stewart in a game where you are within a td the whole game (so you don't have to be one dimensional) is completely unacceptable. If they want to help Cam and the offense, they need to take things off his shoulders because he's not making the right decisions right now. Just drop back and hand the damn ball off as opposed to some kind of option play where the RB has to focus on the QB and guess whether he's going to get the ball as opposed to getting the ball handed to him and reading where he needs to go.

I completely agree with this... I never played RB, or football for that matter, so I have no personal experience to draw on here. But, I can't imagine a designed running play where you know you're getting the ball, know you need to read your blocks, etc VS. not knowing whether the QB is going to give it to you or keep it himself HAS to make a difference.

I recall Willis McGahee last season talking about how uncomfortable he was when Tebow took over as the QB because it was a major adjustment to the read option.

Mcgahee also had, by far, the highest YPC of his career (as a starter) last year while doing that.4.0

3.8

3.8

4.1

3.9

4.8

4.3

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Stewart, Williams, and Tolbert have combined for fewer than 100 carries and only 120 total touches on the year. Even if one guy suddenly started to get all of the work, it likely wouldn't matter unless there is a massive philosophical shift away from the shotgun-read option to a more conventional offense. Personally I doubt that it happens with Cam under center.

 

[packersfan]

10 carries for a back as good as Stewart in a game where you are within a td the whole game (so you don't have to be one dimensional) is completely unacceptable. If they want to help Cam and the offense, they need to take things off his shoulders because he's not making the right decisions right now. Just drop back and hand the damn ball off as opposed to some kind of option play where the RB has to focus on the QB and guess whether he's going to get the ball as opposed to getting the ball handed to him and reading where he needs to go.

I completely agree with this... I never played RB, or football for that matter, so I have no personal experience to draw on here. But, I can't imagine a designed running play where you know you're getting the ball, know you need to read your blocks, etc VS. not knowing whether the QB is going to give it to you or keep it himself HAS to make a difference.

I recall Willis McGahee last season talking about how uncomfortable he was when Tebow took over as the QB because it was a major adjustment to the read option.

Mcgahee also had, by far, the highest YPC of his career (as a starter) last year while doing that.4.0

3.8

3.8

4.1

3.9

4.8

4.3

True. I think the main reason for that is that Denver's O Line was/is much better than Carolina's. You could also argue that Tebow, for all his faults, runs the read option better than Cam.

 

[Mimo]

I've offered a 1st round pick straight up for him in multiple leagues and got rejected each time. Guys aren't selling him from what I have seen.

 

[JFS171]

Guys trying to buy Stewart in Dynasty - have you been successful? If so, what are some of the prices you've paid?

I'm trying to get him right now... guy wants Alex Green, Daryl Richardson, and Josh Gordon for Stewart, Tony G, and a pick. In other words, unless he's a top 10 back, seems like a helluva lot.

 

[Riffraff]

Guys trying to buy Stewart in Dynasty - have you been successful? If so, what are some of the prices you've paid?I'm trying to get him right now... guy wants Alex Green, Daryl Richardson, and Josh Gordon for Stewart, Tony G, and a pick. In other words, unless he's a top 10 back, seems like a helluva lot.

An injury fill-in, a scat back, and a project are not enough for Stewart, a potentially retiring stud, and a pick. IMO

 

[Nucker101]

Guys trying to buy Stewart in Dynasty - have you been successful? If so, what are some of the prices you've paid?I'm trying to get him right now... guy wants Alex Green, Daryl Richardson, and Josh Gordon for Stewart, Tony G, and a pick. In other words, unless he's a top 10 back, seems like a helluva lot.

An injury fill-in, a scat back, and a project are not enough for Stewart, a potentially retiring stud, and a pick. IMO

Agreed. I'm probably not as high on D-Rich and Gordon as most people here are but I'd take that deal and run.

 

[JFS171]

Interesting... did not expect that sentiment.

I agree Stewart is highly talented, but let's look at the other guys.

While I may not be as high on D-Rich as some, I don't see any reason why he can't be a 15-carry, 2-4 reception guy that's an explosive player for the Rams. Fisher seems to really like the kid, and he seems like a playmaker to me. I'm not saying he's Johnson or Charles, but I don't think he's just a scatback either.

Green's a former 3rd rounder, 11-months removed from a torn ACL, playing on one of the best offenses in football. Plus he's getting the feature workload on that team, can catch, and seems to be a good fit for that offense. Terrible game yesterday, and maybe I'm overvaluing, but he seems like he's getting a shot to be the guy moving forward. Why can't he be their starter in 2013 and beyond, assuming he's still regaining explosiveness - again 11 months removed from shredding his knee.

Gordon would be nearly untouchable to most owners if he had the draft pedigree of Blackmon or Floyd. I don't think his production can be dismissed so easily. Guy was out of football for over a year, which helped explain the slow start, but he's coming on, getting more targets now, and some said he'd have been a top 10 pick in 2013... My point is, he's no throw-in.